New Layout Design

I have two types of decoupling tracks on my layout. I had bought the Atlas O version a long time back then recently bought the Gargraves version. I really like the Gargraves track because its magnet is a lot longer than the Atlas O making it much easier to spot a car on the track for decoupling.

Below is the Gargraves wiring diagram. Note track power does not flow through the track so you will need power drops on both sides. I plan on making little 'milepost' signs to aid in spotting cars on each track.

Below are photos of the two tracks

I have all my signals placed on the layout and am getting ready to wire however I spent the week slowly pulling out the locomotives I have been storing for going on 5 years now, oil and greasing and making sure they work. The neat thing is that it has been so long that when I open a box I actually go "gee I did not know I had that"!

Some of my diesel locomotives

I have 3 MTH Cantilever lights - see below

I set up a bench test to make sure my wiring is correct. I have Lionel ITADS and Z-Stuff 1075 detectors. Both worked with the cantilevers.

I believe my Lionel ITADS are the old version. I don't have so can't vouch for the new version but please see below

The schematic is good. I have 2 of 3 lights connected.

@Joe Fauty posted:

The schematic is good. I have 2 of 3 lights connected.

Joe - thanks for posting the wiring diagrams for the Itads!

-Greg

Thanks Greg - next up is a Lionel Main Line and  a MTH 3 Over. Once I get the wiring down I will post the schematics.

After that I have Z-Stuff signals and DZ-1075 detectors which I will standardize on.

I wired a single mast Lionel signal (6-24101) to a DZ-1075 detector and an MTH 3 over 3 signal (30-11024) to both a Lionel 153 detector and to a DZ-1075 detector). I decided to wire the top and bottom separately even though I don't think this is prototypical. I have the signal in front of a turnout wired such that if a train exists track 1 the top aspect turns red for track 2 and vice versa.

The three wiring diagrams are shown below

Next week I am wiring DZ-1060 signals to both DZ-1075 and DZ-1070 detectors I have in stock. Note the DZ-1070 only works with Z-Stuff signals.

Though I did not do this the wiring diagram for a Lionel signal to a Lionel 153 detector is shown below

Both of your ITAD diagrams indicate they are for the "older" version.  Don't think you meant to do that.

Chuck

Chuck:
Hopefully below is what you are talking about.
Unless I have it backwards I have the older versions of the Lionel ITAD. Not sure what year the design changed but the input wiring is now different. Please see below for the differences.

I just finished wiring a Z-Stuff 1060 signal to a Z-Stuff 1070 detector. Below is the wiring diagram per Z-Stuff instructions. Below it is a wiring diagram that actually worked. In this instance I had to connect the white wire instead of the gray wire to make the signal function properly.

Next Sunday I have two more DZ-1060  signals to wire but this time to DZ-1075 detectors.

I have been reading some old articles written by Frank Ellison, John Allen and John Armstrong more on this in an upcoming post) with respect to track work. Based on these articles I changed my east yard to make it more simple. In the previous design the scrap yard was difficult to get into and out of and because of the turnouts I was limited in the number of flat cars I could push in or take out. The new yard design gives me straight access to the yard with a long spur plus I have gained a caboose track.

Below is the original layout - note the scrap yard track with the crane - bottom right

In the modified layout design the scrap yard now has its own spur and I gain a caboose track along side of it.

To get 'new' structure ideas for my layout and business I went back in time. Frank Ellison is a famous model railroader who wrote a bunch of structure articles for a now defunct magazine called Model Builder in the 1940's. These magazines are available on the internet for free. Some of his structures have been updated and re-issued by Brennan's Model Railroading. I have two kits I plan on building soon. I also plan on designing and scratch building my own.
Frank Ellison then John Allen started writing track operations planning articles for Model Railroader in the late 1930's through early 1950's (John Armstrong followed later with mostly track plans for prototype railroad operation). F. Ellison wrote a series of articles on various aspects of layout planning and building, scenery and operation. What interested me the most was his series of articles on how to set up spurs and sidings so there was a purpose for their existence. He wrote articles on where to fit industries on spurs and how to switch cars into and out of the spurs. In 1944 he wrote his famous series called "The Art of Model Railroading" which was reprinted in 1964.
To paraphrase Ellison and Allen a good model railroad must have a 'come from' and a 'go to' operation otherwise one is just running trains (no offense to 'loopers'). Even if sidings are constructed but no specific business is located to 'go to' on those sidings you can still drop of a box car, hopper or tank car or all of them at the same time since the spur lacks a purpose for those cars being there. Of the many examples of 'come from' / 'go to' one would be an output terminal at a refinery that loads tank cars with diesel, gasoline,heating oil or propane. The tank cars can then be dropped off at spurs containing a bulk oil dealer, a propane tank farm or a gasoline/diesel dealer. You can simply stop there or go further. For instance the heating oil dealer can load trucks with heating oil for delivery to city or residential neighborhoods. A grain elevator to a feed or flour mill to a freight dealer is another good example. I am still planning and building industries for the spurs. More on this in an upcoming posts.
From John Armstrong's articles and books I learned the necessity of double ended passing sidings so I can park a freight consist while a passenger train speeds by. I also learned that my yard layout was inefficient and changed it (previous post). I made my passenger station track a double ended siding also. So I can park the passenger train at the station and let the freight proceed on the same track and perhaps cross over to the outside main for an excursion around the country side. Or I can do the opposite and let the passenger train cross over to the outside main and go 'cross country' while I make switching moves (pick ups and drop offs) for the freight train at the various spurs.

Below is a partial list of books and articles I read.
1. John Armstrong "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" - Model Railroader Books
2. Frank Ellison "Fast Freight" Model Railroader Dec 1949
3. Frank Ellison "Freight Yards" Model Railroader Jan 1950
4. Frank Ellison "Way Freight" Model Railroader Feb 1950
5. Frank Ellison "Route Switching" Model Railroader Mar 1950 - an excellent article
6. Frank Ellison "Where to Locate Your Industries" Model Railroader Jun 1950 - another excellent article.
7. Frank Ellison "Art of Model Railroading" Model Railroader Mar to Aug 1944

Joe,

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, but the ITAD descriptions I was talking about are in your 7/11 post where you show two signals (1 MTH & 1 Lionel) wired to DZ-1075 detectors and two signals (1 MTH & 1 Lionel) wired to ITADs.  Both ITAD descriptions say they represent wiring for the "OLDER" ITAD product, but I think one of them is supposed to be the newer product.  Or, are they both supposed to be for the "OLDER" ITAD product and just showing the differences between an MTH signal hook-up and a Lionel signal hook-up?  What's confusing is that one description references a hook-up diagram for "NEWER" ITAD product "on the next page."

I whole-heartedly concur with your reading recommendations and track plan changes; "operating" can be so much more fun than "running."  However, the 1964 version of "The Art of Model Railroading" is actually a re-do of an earlier version by the same name.  Don't remember the year(s) of the earlier version, but I know the earlier version track plan had a turntable at Raymondale and the later version did not.  I will bet, just like you, Ralph made changes after initial construction to improve operations, just like you!

Chuck

Chuck:
I see what you mean - I should have taken out the words "see next page". All the wiring diagrams are for the older version. The 7/12 post shows the difference between the two versions.

You are right about the date - Ellison started the series in Mar 1944. I will edit my post to reflect this.
Joe

Thanks, Joe; I get it now.

Chuck

@Joe Fauty posted:

To get 'new' structure ideas for my layout and business I went back in time. Frank Ellison is a famous model railroader who wrote a bunch of structure articles for a now defunct magazine called Model Builder in the 1940's. These magazines are available on the internet for free. Some of his structures have been updated and re-issued by Brennan's Model Railroading. I have two kits I plan on building soon. I also plan on designing and scratch building my own.
Frank Ellison then John Allen started writing track operations planning articles for Model Railroader in the late 1940's and early 1950's (John Armstrong followed later with mostly track plans for prototype railroad operation). F. Ellison wrote a series of articles on various aspects of layout planning and building, scenery and operation. What interested me the most was his series of articles on how to set up spurs and sidings so there was a purpose for their existence. He wrote articles on where to fit industries on spurs and how to switch cars into and out of the spurs. In 1944 he wrote his famous series called "The Art of Model Railroading" which was reprinted in 1964.
To paraphrase Ellison and Allen a good model railroad must have a 'come from' and a 'go to' operation otherwise one is just running trains (no offense to 'loopers'). Even if sidings are constructed but no specific business is located to 'go to' on those sidings you can still drop of a box car, hopper or tank car or all of them at the same time since the spur lacks a purpose for those cars being there. Of the many examples of 'come from' / 'go to' one would be an output terminal at a refinery that loads tank cars with diesel, gasoline,heating oil or propane. The tank cars can then be dropped off at spurs containing a bulk oil dealer, a propane tank farm or a gasoline/diesel dealer. You can simply stop there or go further. For instance the heating oil dealer can load trucks with heating oil for delivery to city or residential neighborhoods. A grain elevator to a feed or flour mill to a freight dealer is another good example. I am still planning and building industries for the spurs. More on this in an upcoming posts.
From John Armstrong's articles and books I learned the necessity of double ended passing sidings so I can park a freight consist while a passenger train speeds by. I also learned that my yard layout was inefficient and changed it (previous post). I made my passenger station track a double ended siding also. So I can park the passenger train at the station and let the freight proceed on the same track and perhaps cross over to the outside main for an excursion around the country side. Or I can do the opposite and let the passenger train cross over to the outside main and go 'cross country' while I make switching moves (pick ups and drop offs) for the freight train at the various spurs.

Below is a partial list of books and articles I read.
1. John Armstrong "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" - Model Railroader Books
2. Frank Ellison "Fast Freight" Model Railroader Dec 1949
3. Frank Ellison "Freight Yards" Model Railroader Jan 1950
4. Frank Ellison "Way Freight" Model Railroader Feb 1950
5. Frank Ellison "Route Switching" Model Railroader Mar 1950 - an excellent article
6. Frank Ellison "Where to Locate Your Industries" Model Railroader Jun 1950 - another excellent article.
7. Frank Ellison "Art of Model Railroading" Model Railroader Mar to Aug 1944

Joe among these articles which did you find to be the most interesting / enlightening? Where to locate your industries sounds very interesting/helpful, was it written from the perspecitive of being prototypical or how to optimize your layout?  Lastly, did you just hunt down old issues for these articles or is there another online resource?  Thank You in advance, Jim

Jim:
With respect to the Model Railroader articles one needs to be a subscriber then add on digital access.
With respect to the old Modeler Builder mags these are free - http://original.trainlife.com/magazines.

As for articles -
Frank Ellison "Route Switching" Model Railroader Mar 1950 - an excellent article
Frank Ellison "Where to Locate Your Industries" Model Railroader Jun 1950 - another excellent article.

I look as these articles as to how to improve my layout so I can run my trains with a purpose in mind.  I believe Ellison's Delta Lines was freelanced but set up for 'prototypical' operations.

Jim:
I sent an email to A.Arnold asking if I can post reprints of magazine articles. We'll see what he says.
Joe

Update - re-printing even internet 'free' articles may violate copy right laws so I can't post any article. What I can say is that https://trainlife.com/pages/mo...der-magazine-archive has an archive of Model Builder magazine articles on the building of just about every structure F. Ellison made.

Ran into a big problem with my layout covered in https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...nal-from-legacy-base.

So far I know one powermaster is dead but I don't know why. I also know that the power/ground connection to my control board (toggle switches for spurs) is all of a sudden causing an issue but again I don't know why. I have a new powermaster on order from ChasRo. Funny thing is if the wires are connected to one the two working powermasters the track will turn on for about two seconds then turn off. No warning lights on powermaster (the red light usually blinks fast in case of short) and the 180w power brick does not trip.

Bench tested the Z-Stuff 1060 signal with the DZ-1075 detector. The wiring diagram seems to work fine.

My original diagram had the blue wire connected to power but Dennis Zander said to simply ignore it.

@Joe Fauty posted:

Jim:
I sent an email to A.Arnold asking if I can post reprints of magazine articles. We'll see what he says.
Joe

Update - re-printing even internet 'free' articles may violate copy right laws so I can't post any article. What I can say is that https://trainlife.com/pages/mo...der-magazine-archive has an archive of Model Builder magazine articles on the building of just about every structure F. Ellison made.

Thank You, I really appreciate your help/guidance.  Jim

This looks to be a very interesting thread, cool layout, so I need to begin reading from page 1. Soon I’ll catch up. Great ideas. Happy Railroading Everyone

Took some time to 'recreate' F. Ellison's two towns of Raymondale and Donaldson. The track work is approx. so is the size. His article "Where to Locate Your Industries" talks all about this.

If I only had the room.................................

Ok, I’ve read page 1 and your workmanship is great. Your layout is a great size, not overly big, not small, a great size that might allow actually finishing. Your track plans great, comments by on lookers are very interesting. I read on, great thread. Happy Railroading Everyone

Well, I know the feeling of having thoughts of moving to a new home, my wife wanted us to move to a smaller home last year, Wow, what a situation she placed me in, thinking that it would be a down sizing on our budget, but, I talked her into staying as a new home, half the size would cost more than our present home. We built our home 25 years ago, it’s been well maintained, and all I need to do is sell a bunch of over stock trains. Great thread, glad you didn’t have to move…. Relief… Happy Railroading Everyone (I really like the play by play, so to speak, of your layout progression)

Larry, I’m glad you were able to find the facts on moving to a new home.  I would hate to see you have to tear down the layout and have to squeeze into a smaller place

Yes Mark, thank you, it was a relief to me when she realized that downsizing would not really benefit her, or our family, our neighborhood is very safe, we are basically debt free, we are ok health wise. Now, this thread is very educational, lots of interesting wiring diagrams, very well organized. Thank you Joe Fauty for your detailed descriptions on building your layout. Happy Railroading Everyone

Thanks Larry

I have one signal left to install today. I had two DZ-1060's and DZ-1075's however the yellow wire on one D-1060 broke (my fault) so I opted to take the black electrical wire off the sensor and install the signal by simply connecting power and com to the respective terminals. I will use the DZ-1075 with the the last signal.

I was going to start wiring lights next but decided to hold off since I don't know how I am going to layout my town streets yet nor do I have a design for the section that will hold my refinery. I still need to build structures for the town and surroundings plus the refinery so I will add the assembly of these to this thread.
I will wire the lights for the buildings I have on the layout but that is just simple power/gnd connections so not worth reporting on this thread other to say all my lights are 12-18VDC/AC, even the Model Power/Lionel LED versions. I have a dedicated 10W 12VDC power supply which should run all lights on the layout. I have toyed with the idea of adding one of the various lighting systems like Woodland Scenics Just Plug or another manufacturer's (can't remember who) Genie system but I am already set up with a system. I know the Just Plug system starts out at 24VAC and by the time one gets to the actual output for the lights it ends up at 16VDC. The lights have resistors to knock the voltage down to the required 3VDC. I may try one light with my system by simply cutting off the plug it comes with and see how it does with the 12VDC

In the meantime I am going to run trains for the enjoyment plus figure out where I need to add more power drops before I commit to ballast. Normally one would 'follow nature' and do scenery first then ballast. Since I will need to walk and crawl over the layout to add ballast, if I do it this way a lot of scenery is going to be messed up. So ballast comes first.
Joe

A while back I bought some Gargraves gantry track then a Lionel TMCC Gantry Crane (6-82097) and programmed it as an accessory on my Cab2. Once I finished with the last signal I decided to wire a Lionel TMCC Crane sounds Work House (6-82035) I had purchased. The work house comes with a three wire set up connected to 3-pin male connector. I wanted to connect the work house directly to track power in the same power district that the crane is connected to. So I simply cut off the connector, stripped the wires and connected red/black to track. I left the white wire alone. Neither the instruction manual or Lionel's web site explain the function of that third wire. I programmed the work house with the same ACC # as the crane - turned on power and WOW!

The work house has a constant back ground noise (you can turn the sound off with the remote) but also contains different sounds depending which function of the crane you choose to operate. There is even dialog programmed in. I was not really a fan of operating accessories. This is my first one. I can say I will be having a lot of fun with this.

A also took some time to print some ID tags (Avery white full sheet shipping labels) to identify my track spurs and accessory lighting. For example I labeled the spur that goes to a wholesale bread and bakery shop as "Bakery". The toggle switches for the spurs is on the bottom right.
The accessory switches (Atlas O SPST on/off) are top right. The toggle switches on the left are for the turnouts and the gray and black switches top left are Gargraves/Atlas O for uncoupling tracks. The control board slides in and out of the table.

Looks great

I like what you're doing & the information you share. I am especially grateful for the info on placing industries & on giving an actual purpose to the layout;.

Down towards the bottom of the layout I a two track spur which is dedicated to a modern looking 2-stall diesel shed.

This will be my first project (please bear in mind I have only Saturdays to work on this). Back in 2015 while
Rich Redman still owned Korber Models he put together the pieces for two custom diesel shed kits based on the Korber #1032 shed design based on a design a friend and myself submitted. my kit has been sitting on a shelf all this time during construction of my table and track work. Below is a photo of the kit my friend built. Some extra material was used to make a small 1-story office in the back of the shed.

I will start this project next week end.

I ran a locomotive real slow over all the track and had no issues (hope so since I dropped power about every 3 inches......ah just kidding).

I have started the Korber-Pecos diesel shed build. I have built these kits for customers so learned some stuff that I will describe as the build proceeds. Rich had put together an instruction sheet that is very helpful. The shed was designed with 6 side walls but available space limited the length to 5 walls. I put all the pieces on my table saw bench to make sure everything was there. You can see how the building will look from the bottom  left of the photo below. There will be a brick concourse at both levels. From the upper left you can see the back wall. The left bottom wall will be brick. the right side will be a entrance to an office.  

Below in the fronttwo walls. As you can see I will need to cut away the bottom to make an entrance. I will also need to build up the wall height using the bottom pilasters since there will be no foundation wall attached.

The back wall is shown below

I spent most of the afternoon cutting flash and mold nibs off all the pieces and sanding the edges. I then glued 2 wall units together. the corner wall on the left is what the completed wall will look like with windows and brick installed. Note the brick inserts are all one width. The insert for the top course is used as is. However since the foundation has a lip that overlaps the first floor window wall the brick insert needs to be trimmed to fit.

I trimmed the nubs on the sides of the walls so they would fit together. The instructions say to build the wall units separately, glue them together then add the pilasters. I learned to deviate from this as shown below. If you attempt to trim and sand to make the walls absolutely flush with each other and glue them together then the pilasters won't fit and you will end up having to trim them to width. I have learned to trim the nubs just enough so the walls will fit however I use the pilasters as spacers when gluing the walls together. I fit the walls together then glue in the pilasters while pushing the walls flush with the pilasters.

I leave the top pilaster at its original length and glue it in first. I then glue the foundation pilaster at the bottom.
Because this is a two story building I need to trim the middle plaster to length to fit.

Next week I will try to finish gluing all the remaining walls together. From there I will assemble the 4 walls into a structure then start painting everything.

Right now it looks like:
- Caribbean Sand for the base structure (I may make this darker to look more like concrete rather than plaster)
- Dark red for windows and the door
- Dark red for the brick with joint compound for mortar.

Joe, thank you for the step by step on the diesel shed.  It seems no matter what we build, we have to learn from it and could make a second one better and easier.  It looks like a neat building.

Did some more work on the diesel shed. I have both 2-panel ends and one 5-panel side glued up. I will have photos tomorrow when the clamps (ie bricks) come off.

I have two Cab2 remotes (not sure why.............). Anyway the cradle for one is nonfunctional except for a re-charging function that has not worked since day 2 or 3. I'm too lazy to send it in for repair. So I decided to remove the cradle from the power control board. This freed up space for me to re-arrange power supplies and powermasters to look more orderly. The small Lionel Accessory Transformer powers all the turnouts along with DZ-1011R's used to indicate switch position. The samll black Atlas O transformer at the top powers all my ITADS. The Aluminum transformer is a 10W 12VDC power supply for all lights.

I have become a Frank Ellison / John Allen 'groupie' reading stuff they published in the 1930's-1950's. The electronics has certainly changed however the philosophy is timeless. Frank Ellison wrote a series of articles about industries in three particular towns - Donaldson, Raymondale and Filmore and how they interconnected. In particular three articles "Where to Place your Industries' and 'Route Switching and 'The fitness of Things' inspired me to move my structures around, repurpose some and gave me a list of structures I need to build. The new building placement plan is below.

The general strategy is below. (apologies for the length).

Structures to build

Diesel Shed
REA building
Rural Grain elevator
Feed Mill
Small Parts Factory
Grocery Warehouse
Wholesale Bakery

Industries

Grain

The Rural Grain elevator is located at the end of the division point yard on track that doubles as the arrival/ departure classification track. Empty hopper cars are spotted by the elevator to be filled. Assumption is local farmers deliver different grains to back of elevator which are loaded into hopper cars.
Way freight picks up loaded hopper cars and delivers to Feed Mill where it is turned into flour and feed. Way freight picks up empty hoppers and delivers to division point yard where it then picks up empty box cars to deliver to feed mill. Feed Mill loads boxcars with sacks for delivery to Wholesale Bakery and to Ellison Dry Goods. Way freight picks up loaded boxcars and drops off loaded hoppers. Way freight delivers box cars to Bakery and Dry Goods stores. It picks up empty boxcars then returns to the division point yard with the empty boxcars and hoppers.

Refinery

Empty tank cars are spotted at loading platform where gasoline, heating oil and propane are loaded. Way freight picks up loaded tank cars and delivers to bulk fuel distributor. The distributor loads tank trucks with various fuels to deliver to diesel yard, gas station, factories etc

Food Stuff

It is assumed local farmers deliver vegetables and fruit to cannery. Cannery processes frozen fresh fruit and vegetables and cans the rest. Way freight picks up iced reefers at Union Ice Co. and delivers to Patterson Cannery. Cannery loads frozen food into one reefer and canned foodstuff into another. Way freight delivers frozen food to Grocery Warehouse and canned foodstuff to Ellison Dry Goods. It picks up empty reefers and delivers back to Union Ice.

Manufactures

The Small Parts Factory makes various widgets and replacement parts for John Deere tractors. These are loaded onto flatcars and box cars which have been spotted next to an Open Air Loading Dock. The loading dock also serves as a team track for other local businesses to load their product such as timber. The Way freight picks up the loaded cars and delivers to Allen Freight & Transport where they are packed and loaded into box cars. Way freight picks up empties and returns them to the Small Parts factory. Loaded box cars are ready for the next Through Freight to come through.

Passenger Service

There is room for only one passenger station on the layout so I will park a passenger train on that siding. To make room for the Way freight deliveries to bakery, dry goods and Freight House I will move the passenger train out, switch to the outside main and let it ‘transverse the country side’ for a while. There is a large siding on the inside main where I can park the way freight so it can wait for the passenger train to vacate the station siding.

Joe,

Do the Frank Ellison concepts result in a layout that mimics life or is it a way to have a layout with better "play value"?

Thanks

I think the answer is "both."  Creating a model world that causes you to operate like a real railroad, IMO, gives most adult modelers the most play value.  But that doesn't necessarily hold true for youthful modelers.  If the equipment had been readily available back in Frank's day, I bet he would have included operating bridges, lumber yards, cranes, etc. to hold the youthful modeler's interest, all while they learned how a "real" railroad operates (scheduling, servicing customers, servicing equipment, etc.).

But, if I remember correctly, Frank also built in some hidden connections for the times he (and visitors) might have just wanted to see some trains run.

Chuck

I agree with Chuck. Nothing I have read so far indicates how Frank Ellison viewed his layout. I know he had operating sessions as we know them today with a lot of he called route switching just like the real railroads. I believe his Delta Lines was not prototypical but freelanced. However he set it up to act as an actual railroad 'business'.

Joe

As mentioned above I managed to assemble one 5-panel side and the 2-panel front and back.

There are mold pin indents on the back of the peaked and flat tops that will show after the roof is installed. I filled these in with putty and will sand them later on. The seam where each wall meets will be covered by an H-column. I plan on laminating concrete sheets to styrene to cover the area at the bottom of each panel where the mold pins are.

Excellent work Joe, I will go back and review the last few pages as I enjoy your thorough detailing of your work. Great layout. Happy Railroading Everyone

Just learned something new.
Guess I was never paying attention but one day I realized my 'Legacy' CAB 2 remote kept coming on showing 'CAB 1' I could find no way to change it to CAB 2 so was thinking I was limited in my available functions. Lionel tech support came to the rescue. The CAB 2 always defaults to CAB 1 on turn-on. If there is a Legacy loco programmed into the remote it will show the Legacy menu. However the remote is not a 'Legacy' device with TMCC capability but a TMCC device with Legacy capability.

Because of below I took the last two weeks off from the diesel shed build but will get back to it next Saturday.

I was running locomotives around the layout to double check power and ground. From a way earlier post I had talked about a half John Allen 'timesaver' track game I installed on the edge of the layout. The intentions were noble however with the number of turnouts and short track I came to the conclusion while running my bigger locomotives that the track game would work however the rest of the time I could not really do much with that section. Because of the position of the three double turnouts I had little room to maneuver the larger loco without having one truck on the point rails in some cases. I decided to modify the track design by deleting one double turnout. Technically the design is no longer a 'timesaver' but I have gained an spur for an engine shed plus a caboose track.

The old design is shown below. The crane is on the left side of the track design. It was impossible to maneuver the steam loco to the track where the cabooses are. Plus the loco's tender was sitting on top of point rails. I deleted the double turnout between the tracks with the cabooses and the steam loco, moved the double turnout from the lead track and the track  with with the loco further down the lead track.

The new design is shown below. The crane is now on the track closest to the lead track. The spur on the left side will have the engine house. I hope to fit the coal tower and a sand house on that spur. If I can then the track in the middle will have hoppers delivering coal to the tower. The other end of the track will be where the ash dumps into a gondola. The caboose track is where the UP caboose resides. A locomotive will be backed into the engine house track for 'maintenance'. A switcher loco will make up consists  on the yard track and pull them out on the lead track. It will then disconnect and move on the crane track. Another switcher will then push the consist out of the yard lead track to the main line where the steam locomotive will be re-positioned and waiting. Switcher 2 will then go back to the yard and switcher 1 will grab a caboose and attach it to the end of the consist.

An RR-Track design is shown below. Some diesels will be stored on the blue yard track at the bottom. If I want to use them for a consist I will roll one out to the main track first then repeat the building of the consist mentioned above. The shorted blue track on the lower right will hold the switch engines.

That is good you got to try out the old design and identify its shortcomings, make changes, and find a better way.  Too often we get too much built before realizing it doesn’t work so well.

Spent Saturday working on the diesel shed and most of Sunday completing the wiring of the turnouts for the redesigned yard.

I filled in the mold holes on the top panels of the walls since they will be seen once the roof is on. I also glued 40 mil styrene to the bottom inside of the walls to hide the depressions from molding (see photo below). I'm not sure why these depressions are there in the first place.

Right now my plan is to hide the seems between panels with Plastruct H-12 columns. I will then glue in Plastruct OWTA-24 Trusses to stabilize the structure and on top of which the roof will sit. With these in place all inside seams will be covered. All the walls are now assembled. I will be gluing them together next Saturday. I want to leave the H-columns black so will tape the seams before I paint the walls.

The two double turnouts are wired and work. DZ-1008 relays came in so I was able to wire two MTH dwarf signals to the 1008 relay /1000 switch machine to indicate turnout position

I need to replace some Atlas 200 snap relays with DZ-1008 relays which I will do next W/E. The reason for this is mostly the non-derail function for the DZ-1000 motor. The 200 snap relay would stay on and burn out if a long enough train consist rolled through the turnout.

I normally work on structures for my layout on Saturdays and the layout itself on Sundays. I was running trains at the mall for the kids yesterday so decided to make today Saturday part duo.

I finished cutting and gluing 40 mil sheet styrene to cover the molding depressions on the bottom foundation walls. The back end has a door so I had to trim stock away before gluing so the door would fit. 1/4 sq. styrene was glued to the top to act as a roof support. As mentioned before the black H-Column (H-12) is not glued in as yet since I want to keep it black. Styrene strips 80 x 250 were glued to hide a seam between panel pieces - see next photo.

I had to make sure the styrene strips would not interfer with window placement on the bottom floor so used the windows to position the strips.

This is what a finished side will look like on the inside.

Now the fun part - gluing the walls together.

To help try keeping the walls square to each other I clamped right angles where I could.

I ran into an issue gluing the end walls to the side walls. If you look closely at the end of the foundation wall you will see a tab sticking out. This is a placement tab when gluing two foundation walls together however I discovered the tab got in the way when trying to fit and end wall to the side wall so I had to cut it off. I left this one on as a show and tell. What you are looking at here is the front entrance. Since there are no foundation walls here the entrance comes to an end above the foundation wall. I will be filling in the corner spaces with corner trim and the middle piece with styrene on the inside and trim on the outside. Things will be more clear next week.

Now for the 20-20 hind sight. The building measures 28 inches long. It will fit over the track where I want it to go but as usual I fell victim to rule #2 - never think you have to fill in all the space. I forgot about sand / water / fuel structures on the outside of the entrance.

It’s looking great, Joe!  I always forget about something.

Joe, you have an amazing layout coming together here. I have skimmed the other pages and I really like what you're doing.  I have learned some things too.  I am definately going to try to modify my Gargraves uncoupling tracks the way you did.  Keep up the great work.  I'll be following along!

Michael

I'm late to the party (not sure how I missed this thread), but it looks like you're making great progress.

One question, and sorry if it's already been covered in the previous 7 (!) pages of posts, but it looks like you have some areas that require a long reach - how do you handle it?  Topside creeper, lift-outs, etc.?  Thanks.

Nice tablesaw setup, BTW.

Mallard4468

While I have a corner cutout where two walls meet (by OGR buildings on left) and a larger cutout towards the top-middle of the layout this is definitely a layout I need to walk on.

Looks like my eyes were bigger than my stomach. There is no room at the entrance for stuff I want to put there. So I had to remove one panel from each side yesterday.

Removing the panels was easier than I thought (not necessarily a good thing). I reattached the structure - glued and clamped overnight. I also finished the entrance. I need to add some puttty to gaps, glue in some missing roof supports and the structure is ready for paint.

As mentioned earlier I am going to use Plastruct H-12 columns inside the shed to hide seams and glue in OWTA truss pieces. I want to keep these pieces black so will wait till the shed is painted then glue them in.

I am also thinking about installing a crane fixture. I have a Walthers "super crane" kit, I also have designed and built my own version for customers. I am thinking about pulling the wheels off the HO truck shown below and incorporating them into a motor housing design. I want to glue the crane track structure to both sides of the H-12 so  I believe my normal design is too wide - see last photo

I have the shed in paint.

The building will be painted black, then red oxide followed by desert bisque.

The windows and brick were painted with flat red.

When I had the kit put together by Rich Redman, he provided an abundance of detail parts. I am not going to use them all however I figured I would paint (dull nickel) every thing and store what I don't use for other projects.

After painting the brick panels flat red I used joint compound for mortar. I gave the compound one day to dry then sprayed with Dullcote. After letting the Dullcote dry I applied several coats of India ink/water wash. If you don't use Dllcote the water in the wash tends to soften and remove the joint compound. The results are shown below.

Before India ink / water wash

After several washes. It is hard to see in the photos but there is a marked difference.

The shed is fully painted. I glued in the brick panels.

I then glued in the Plastruct H-12 columns and OWTA-24 trusses.

I am reserving the middle columns for a crane-way. I elected to build my own design. The crane-way itself is:
BFS-20 I-beam (if I had the black ABS version I would have used this saving have to paint)
C-16 channel inserted on one side as a stiffener
C-6 channel cut to size and glued vertically to the other side of the I-beam
H-6 column to be used as 'track' for the motor housing I will build next W/E

Great work Joe. And I thought I had a lot of clamps!

Charlie

I keep itching to bring out the big guns - maybe over kill????

I did not get anything done last W/E due to the monthly running of trains at the mall.

Made progress today.

The windows were installed using DAP Rapid Fuze (I am starting to like this stuff a lot)

I cut and painted 1/8 inch thick hardboard for the roof

I then glued on all those Korber detail parts I built earlier

Next W/E I will build the crane motor housing then I will be start the design for the 'concrete' base.

Looks great.

Chuck

WOW Joe, that looks Outstanding! I really like your updates!

Had some time yesterday to build the conveyor motor housing. This is not anything super detailed since no one will probably ever see it.

The sides are 60 mil styrene which fit very nicely inside the H-8 columns. I drilled 1/16" dia holes into both side walls, inserted the rods and glued them in place. I made small side covers and glued these over the holes. I won't be rasing/lowering the hook and will most like glue the conveyor motor housing in the center of the overhead track again since I doubt no one will see it unless they look real hard.

I cut and glued a top cover then a smaller piece to look like a lift up lid to get inside. I then glued a ladder to the H-12 column on one side of the building so some one can get to the motor. I will glue some HR-8 railing later today.

Joe, the conveyor housing looks really slick!

With the shed finished I built a concrete base to surround the track inside the shed. I started out with a sub-base of 3/16 MDF to bring it up to the height of the cork roadbed then I glued on offsets to bring the base even with the track ties.

Once satisfied with the fit I took the individual pieces and painted them 'concrete'. I used an awl to make the expansion lines and the cracks. Once the concrete color dried I went over the expansion lines and cracks with an India Ink/water wash.

I had two platforms I bought from Crescent Motor works a while back. I added a brown wash to them then glued on details from a box of 'nick knacks'. there is some Preiser and some Woodland Scenics in there. The platforms are not glued to the base. I will wait till I can back in an locomotive to ensure nothing hits.

The shed will not be glued to the base for maintenance reasons. I still need to add some tanks (as the guru Alan Graz says 'a building ain't a building without a tank or two'.

Looks great!!

Joe, I'm really impressed by your craftsmanship and attention to details.  Thank you for sharing your processes.  Great work!

Almost done with connecting signals to turnout switch motors for position indicators. I still need to buy 4 more DZ-1008 relays (2 new ones and 2 replacements). The last two signals were placed on the Ross Double Crossover. For this I chose the Z-Stuff DZ-1012v detector over the DZ-1011R because of its low profile.

For me this is new but the detector has been around a while. I found an old OGR post that talks about using the detectors and DZ-1008's relays to control the movement of two trains on a single track.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...trains-on-1-mainline

Since I am using the 1012 to simply indicate turnout lead position I placed electrical tape over the sensors and used the diagram below. In this diagram the toggle switch controls the turnout position. The 'wire terminals' are European terminals. I may not have mentioned this before however I have a dedicated power supply set to about 14VAC for turnout switch motors with ground common to track power ground.

Once the DZ-1008's arrive I can complete connecting signals then it is on to making more buildings and installing various lighting. Power for all lights is a Megawatt 12VDC S-350-12 30 amp power supply (10-14V) with three outputs.  I am using each output to control different sections of the layout. See the attached pdf file.

I am finishing up on the refurbishing of an old custom built grain elevator I had on a previous layout (photos are posted on various Sunday Scenic posts). Next up will be a grain mill and a one stall locomotive shed from my product lineup.

Back in 2003 I bought the Atlas O Signal system (three signals). For this layout I did not like the idea of cutting the outside rail in sections to make this system work as I did on the old layout.

Though not explicitly stated in the instructions I decided to try connecting the Atlas PC board to a Lionel ITAD. I then played around with connecting the second then third PC board to the board before it. As a result of the diagram below the ITAD causes all three signals to go red. Once the ITAD is clear the signals go yellow but the signal down line stays yellow longer than the one in front of it.

This is not perfect since there is only one ITAD but it is better than buying two more ITADS. I have no doubt this will work with the Z-Stuff DZ-1075 detector.

The atlas signals have been connected to a Lionel ITAD and work.

The ITAD is in the back along the curve

However 1 issue which is the reason I got away from Atlas O signals. Bench top testing all three signals worked. Once installed the first signal no longer turns red. The connections are proper. I believe I blew the board with handling while installing it.

I had 4 boards. One would not work while bench testing and the second one stopped working during installation. I'm not buying a new board so I need to figure out what to do. Right now I have com wires running from Din/Dout to the next Din/Dout. The board that does not work is at the end of the line.  I may try connecting the Din on this board straight to the ITAD. If this does works then the problem in the Dout on the second board. If this does not work then it is the Din  on the third board so I am out of luck.

If I cut the connector off the third signal to expose the wires does anyone know the 'connection' scheme for them.

Hey Joe....

The layout looks AWESOME! The buildings really make the layout come alive.

So....maybe you could post a short video of the signals in operation....maybe? I realize that may require you to run a train.... but it would be awesome to see!

I have lots of Atlas signals on my layout. The main problem with lights not working was the quality of the phone plug connection to the wire. I had a batch of rather poor plugs, most of which I had to remove and reconnect using a higher quality phone plug. I use a test wire that is known to work to troubleshoot this issue, confirming that the phone wire/plugs are not working properly.

Another cause of signal lights not working is having the wire colours in the wrong order on the phone plug.

Make sure your Din wires do not break at the screw terminal. I had this happen a few times, and you cannot see the broken wire, you have to pull at the wire to see if it comes loose.

If you connect the signal on the suspect bad board to a good board, the signal will work if the board is the problem.

I also have a few signals where one of the three aspects do not work properly. These had to be replaced, as I am not sure if it is possible to repair them. The wire connection at the LED is not accessible, or I was not able to figure out how to access it. Also not sure if you can reliably re-solder the wires to the LED.

Again, 90% of my fixes were wire plug connection problems.

What a nightmare. Nothing worse than successfully bench testing something and have it not work once on the layout. Especially if you have to crawl under the layout to troubleshoot.Do you think static damaged the one board while you were "handling" it?

I'm surprised by the phone plug issues. These used to be pretty durable (can't  tell you how many times I've yanked a phone plug out of the wall socket by accident. Just plugged it back in and all was good). I wonder if its a wire gauge/quality issue.

Nice looking job, Joe!  I agree, it is quite disheartening to get everything working on the bench test, only to have something not work when installed.  Wow!  I have not used Atlas lighting and signaling products myself.  I'm content to just get the track and turnout wiring working properly.

@Junior posted:

Hey Joe....

The layout looks AWESOME! The buildings really make the layout come alive.

So....maybe you could post a short video of the signals in operation....maybe? I realize that may require you to run a train.... but it would be awesome to see!

Junior - I have never done video but will make an attempt

My original assumption was static but reading other posts I am going to check out the plug today.

Joe

Hey Joe....

Static, hmmmm....I would've thought those boards would've been pretty robust. If your layout is on a carpeted floor that could be the culprit. You'll have to ground yourself out somehow to drain off the static charge or.....keep the board in the protective bag; then ground yourself out before installing it on the layout.

As far as the video....it doesn't have to be fancy....just whip out your cellphone and record away. I do it all the time; forum folks are happy to see videos (although stills are still pretty cool (pun intended )!)

I got around the issue with the Atlas O signals. I have a wire from the ITAD connected to the Din of the first board then a wire from Dout to Din of the second board then Dout to Din on the third board. I dis-connected the wire from the Dout on the second board connected the wire from Din on the third board along with the wire from Din on the second board to Dout on the first board. So bottom line both data wires from second and third boards are connected to the data out on the first board.

The lights work however the solution is not elegant. They all go green to red at the same time when the ITAD is tripped but the first and last signal go from yellow back to green a lot sooner then the middle signal. The yellow light stays on longer before going green. I don't see any way to vary the timing of the light on the signal nor the board.

Junior is right - I have carpet in the train room. Moving around under the table I am usually dragging my butt on the carpet.

I also moved a DZ-1060s from the position I have the Atlas O signals to another spot. I mention this because ZStuff has a new signal called 1060v (variable timing) and is selling out the 1060s at a heavy discount. I bought 2 more.

I will attempt a video using my phone later this week or over the W/E

If I cut the phone plugs off the cable for the Atlas signal does anyone have a wiring schematic. Maybe I can connect the signals directly to an ITAD and bypass the circuit board.

Let there be light - - - and nothing blew.

I'm using a dedicated 12VDC 30 amp power supply. It has three outputs so I have 10 amps for each output.

The interior lights are white LED while the lamp posts are Lionel yellow incandescent bulbs - just notice one bulb is out.

And now it is on - oh well

The interior of the engine shed with the crew hard at work.

Only 9,999 more lights to go

Wow, Wow, Wow Joe! Everything looks awesome! I love the sanding tower in front of the engine shed...a very nice touch.

The enginehouse looks great, Joe!

Junior - Mark thank you

Below is a photo of the opposite side of the shed. I have a siding where I located a flat car with some MTH 'motors'. I am making believe they diesel motors. The platforms (Crescent Locomotive works) are left overs from the longer ones inside the shed. I am probably going to remove them and build one of my plastic docks instead. On the left side is the back of the structure written up in the Dec OGR issue.

I am still going to take a video of the Atlas O signals. I need a friend to come over and hold the camera (I think it takes videos) or my phone while I operate the train since it will be heading into a dead end.

Oh yes, I see the structure from the great article you wrote.  It was very detailed on each aspect of the construction.

Thanks Mark

I am doing more work on 'downtown'. I am building 'Bill's Oil Yard' (borrowed name from Frank Ellison). Bill will be selling heating oil and propane at insanely low prices since he has a secret source. I don't think having propane and heating oil in the same yard is prototypical but ol' Bill ain't your common kind of guy.

Bill sounds like my kind of guy, Joe!!!!

Let the scenery begin!
While I am finishing up on Bill's Oil Yard I have started scenery. Already I made a mistake. I applied ballast to some track first then since this area is going to be a yard I decided to cover the grass mat with sand . I should have done it the other way around since the sand covers some of the ballast instead of the other way around.

I had some canisters of Woodland Scenics (WS) coarse brown ballast but knew they would not go far so I went to a building supply store and bought a couple of large canisters of roofing granules. They were brown but not the same shade as the WS stuff so I everything into a box and mixed it all up to even out the color. I spread the ballast with a Ballast King and by hand near turnouts. I tried both 90% alcohol and wet water as wetting agent for the glue; could not tell the difference so stuck with the cheaper wet water. I have a gallon of Scenic Express Matte Medium so am using this until it is gone then I will switch over to diluted Mod Podge Matte.

Work progresses on the yard. I figure to add yellow grass / tufts etc. between the tracks.

The second part of my scenery adventure concerns the incline off to the right of the above photo. It started out as a WS 2% incline. I then added plaster cloth. Once that dried I mixed up Sculptamold (easy to work with) and spread it over the plaster cloth to smooth things over. I had mixed in some acrylic tan paint with the Sculptamold but thought it too light. I bought some acrylic brown but that was too dark so I ended up mixing the tan and brown to tone down the brown color and using a brush dipped in water painted the Sculptamold.

The incline will be a grassy area so I will be starting with WS Green Blend first and go on from there.

The thing with scenery, you can keep experimenting until you get what you want.  Good looking start!

@Joe Fauty

Did you buy the roofing granules locally or via mail order? They look really good on the track.

Junior - I bought them locally

Work continues on Bill's Oil Yard.

The plastic portion is assembled and painted but it is still in pieces.

I will be building a fence around the property using Plastruct's chain link fence kit. The post material looks like their standard TB-2 tubing which is a plastic coated wire so is easy to bend at the top.

I chose a GC Laser kit I had in stock for Bill's office. It is an inexpensive card-stock kit that is very easy to put together however the one thing I did not like was the paper siding so I ended up staining basswood strips 1/32 x 1/8 and 1/32 x 1/16. The 1/8 planks were glued face-down while the 1/16 planks were glued on edge to simulate board and batten. I could have simply cut and glued either preformed wood or plastic board and batten but I wanted to try my hand at scratch building this.

Looks great, Joe.

Looks very good, Joe!

I took a break from ballasting and decided to do something that should have been done at the beginning - adding fascia to the layout table. I used 1/4  hardboard since no bending was required. Since I have pull out shelves I kept the width to 5 inches with about 1/2 inch sticking above the table.
It's not 'furniture' grade - I don't plan on painting or covering over the screw heads

Looks good, Joe.

Same idea, but I used finish nails with a nail gun, because there's very little weight or stress to have to support and then filled in the tiny holes with some putty. You can see one about in the middle of the fascia in this pic.

Joe, that’s a good idea to put in the fascia as a break from ballasting, which can get tedious.  It looks good.

Richie, the finishing nails would hold it fine.  I never thought of it.

I should think about what I’m going to do about fascia as well.  My layout edges are straight also.

Richie - I did not even think about nails. They would have been better than screws. I will probably go back and enlarge the holes a little so the screw heads sit below surface.

It's back to ballast this past W/E. Two things I have discovered when gluing ballast -

1. I am using matte medium as the glue and was using wet water as the wetting agent. I found that I needed to go back over the same area more than once for the ballast to harden. I decided to try 90% isopropyl alcohol. It worked much better. The ballast cured rock hard overnight.

2. For large turnouts like the Ross 4-way I ended up buying sheet cork from a local crafts store. I trimmed the cork a little bit and glued it down with white glue. Saturday I started to glue ballast. I covered the area with alcohol and glue. Sunday morning the sheet had puckered up like it had swollen. I spent some time cutting excess sheet away from the turnout and am hoping the track screws will hold the rest in place.

We were just talking about trial and error on my layout build thread this past weekend.  You will get it looking great!

Please join me for the grand re-opening of Bill's Oil Yard, established in Dec 1946 in the town of Raymondale. it was first served by the Delta Lines. Since then Ol' Bill has branched out with new products such as propane as Bill keeps pace with new technologies. And yes Ol' Bill is still around. When asked about his secret of longevity Bill was heard to a shot of whiskey and a good cigar after EVERY meal. Needless to say the crew gets a little antsy when Bill gets too close to the propane tank..........

say hi to Bill and his drinking buddy

Great storyline and pictures! Love it!

One nit-pick: If that truck blows, it won't be propane blasting all over the place! While it looks good, it was designed to haul a different kind of "fertilizer".

Chris

LVHR

@Joe Fauty posted:

Please join me for the grand re-opening of Bill's Oil Yard, established in Dec 1946 in the town of Raymondale. it was first served by the Delta Lines. Since then Ol' Bill has branched out with new products such as propane as Bill keeps pace with new technologies. And yes Ol' Bill is still around. When asked about his secret of longevity Bill was heard to a shot of whiskey and a good cigar after EVERY meal. Needless to say the crew gets a little antsy when Bill gets too close to the propane tank..........

say hi to Bill and his drinking buddy

As a Frank Ellison fan.......I love it and appreciate the story!

Peter

Joe, that looks really nice and it's enhanced with the storyline.  Looks like Ol' Bill has worked up a sweat.  He needs that beverage.

They are just draining the sludge from the bottom of the propane tank. No Problem

While we're at it a prototype propane tank has domed not dished ends due to the pressure they operate at.

I am fine with the minor points - looks well done. I have carbon dioxide tankers at my oil yard. Looks nicer than my effort to date.  My bald guy is loading barrels, that's giving him a workout.

Nice job  @Joe Fauty

I appreciate the comments guys - Thanks!

Thank you for the information. Sounds like you are well along in the process. Kathy has new book which I have found to be helpful and very insightful.

Joe,

None of your recent scenery pictures are showing.  When I try to force them open, I get a bad link message.

Chuck

I had posted the above in the wrong forum post so copied it and pasted into this forum post. Apparently that did not work out to well. I will re-post below and delete the other one

It has been a while since I posted progress on the railroad. I was laying ballast but had to stop when the brown roofing granules ran out. It has been about a month and so far the roofing company has seen no granules. I did start laying gray ballast on the main lines (got a whole bucket from a friend) but as usual got bored so decided to try scenery.

I am using brown ballast in the yards and gray on the main lines. Hopefully this will work out since my knees hurt.

When I decided to take a break from ballast I started scenery on the edge of the railroad board (after installing facia). I have never done this before so all this was new to me. I have been reading books and articles plus viewing YouTube so came up with a recipe using mostly Woodland Scenics products. I had a WS sand mat to start off with in most of the places. In the one corner I built up a small hill with brown paper, plaster cloth and Sculptamold then painted it a dark tan.

The scenery recipe follows:
Fine Turf:
Little bit Soil
Lots of Green Blend
Little bit Yellow
Little bit Green Blend over Yellow

Coarse Turf:
Patch work not total coverage
Dark to Light

Under Brush:
Use Scenic glue
Put in clumps
Dark to light – dark on half of glue lines – light on other half
Highlight with fine turf – some green – some yellow

Bushes:
Put glue in other areas
Dark to light
Tone down with fine turf

Foliage Clusters:
Use Scenic glue
Peel off a clump and find a place by itself
Use just a little
Tone down with fine turf

Foliage:
Comes in a sheet
Pick off a clump and stretch it out a lot
Drop on bush
Tone down with fine turf

Lichen:
Spread out a littler bit
Place on top of bushes
Tone down with fine turf

Some photos are below. It looked ok but I kept having the feeling it was not 'real' enough.

The trees above are Aspens - Julie's Organic Aspens - Anderson Model kits - www.modelrailroadkit.com.

The short 'tree' is WS fine leaf foliage

One night watching YouTube I discovered the joys of Noch leaves. I saw a video where Kathy Millat made low bushes starting with polyfiber, then another one by someone else who made taller bushes using sisal rope. I gave both a try today. without a doubt Noch leaves are the secret sauce.

Millat - Low Bushes
Spread out Woodland Scenics Poly Fiber or Foliage on double sided tape on brown paper– push up a little
( I had some purple Sil-for I used so I painted it med green)
Spray scenic cement
Add some fine ground foam
Spray scenic cement
Add some more fine ground foam
Spray scenic cement
Add leaves

I will let this stuff dry overnight then place it on top of some WS foliage and see how it goes. The purple stuff is actually the Sil-for left overs on the bench after stretching out sections of the stuff. I simply picked the leftovers up and sprinkled them over the bushes.

The sisal rope bushes -
Hemp or sisal rope
Spread out fibers on end of rope
Cut fibers into shape you want
Add white glue to rope ¼ inch below spread fibers
Cut
Make samples with different lengths
Paint dark tan
Sprinkle on 10-12 mm static grass while paint is wet
Paint dark tan
Sprinkle on fine ground foam while paint is wet
Spray scenic cement
Sprinkle on leaves
Spray scenic cement
Sprinkle on highlights – fine ground foam (did not do this as yet)
Cut bottom off and glue in place

This stuff is looking more real to me

Looks nice.  Thank you for the detailed description!!

Did some more ballast then took a break with the back and played around with some scenery. Note none of this is original. I read and watched Youtube.

a more detailed photo look at making bushes with sisal rope. A detailed procedure was given in an earlier post. I bought 3/8 inch diameter rope and discovered it is made up three 1/8 inch diam strands. So one can make bushes with 3/8 , 1/4 or 1/8 inch trunk diameter. Last post I made 3/8 inch trunks. Below are 1/4 inch trunks.

The sisal strands are separated and white glue was applied to the trunk portion.

I spray painted with a dark tan and while the paint was wet I sprinkled on some 12mm static grass (color does not matter).

Once dry I sprayed painted again and added fine ground foam (green blend).

Once dry I sprayed with an adhesive and sprinkled on Noch leaves. It is the leaves that make all the difference in the world.

I also played around with some Aspen trees I inherited a while back (2008?)  from a local train store that shut down. Below is how they started.

I used the 3M spray adhesives and sprinkled on 12mm static grass. This time the color counts (green).
After the tree dried I sprayed the adhesive again and sprinkled on Noch leaves.

Don't know if I mention this previously - I found Martin Welberg Scencic Studios through Youtube.
This guy makes some great product (Holland) that can be bought from Scenic Express. He specializes in tufts and bushes.

Joe, Bill's oil yard looks really good. Wow, what a nice lookin project.  Your ballasting looks sharp. Thanks for the tip about the isoproply alcohol.   I'll try that when the time comes way down the road.  Your scenery is very nice looking and looks realistic to me.  Your layout is coming together very nicely. I've seen some of the martin welberg videos. He cracks me up. Where did you get the Noch leaves.

Tom

Joe we really like the scenery and info that you included. We have to begin scenery soon and know about zero. We have bookmarked this.

@TomSuperO posted:

Joe, Bill's oil yard looks really good. Wow, what a nice lookin project.  Your ballasting looks sharp. Thanks for the tip about the isoproply alcohol.   I'll try that when the time comes way down the road.  Your scenery is very nice looking and looks realistic to me.  Your layout is coming together very nicely. I've seen some of the martin welberg videos. He cracks me up. Where did you get the Noch leaves.

Tom

Tom - from Walthers

@Bill Webb posted:

Joe we really like the scenery and info that you included. We have to begin scenery soon and know about zero. We have bookmarked this.

Thanks Bill

Well done, Joe!

Peter

A friend gave me some Sedum plants a while back. One is supposed to let them sit for several months before using for trees. Since I had them for 5 years I figure they were ready to go....

The plant on the left is the raw Sedum. I sprayed 'scenic cement' on the whole plant and let it sit overnight. I then sprayed the plant with a flat gray primer. Once that dried I took a different approach than with the sisal rope and Aspen trees. I soaked the plant with scenic cement then applied some coarse turf. I followed up with Noch leaves that were a shade lighter in green. The 'trunks' are kind of skinny so I may end up placing these behind other tress or cutting the trunks down and use as an oversized bush.

I decided to cut the trunk down and place the sedum tree next to a work shed

Some more tree making

I cut some dead branches off a scrub brush behind my house. On the right is what I started with and on the left is a finished tree.

The "usual" formula is to glue on fine leaf foliage or super tree material which is time consuming. I decided to try something different. I sprayed the trees and sprinkled on 12mm static grass. I let the trees dry than repeated the process. Photo above is initial application of static grass.

Once dry I sprayed again and sprinkled on some Busch foliage (kind of like Woodland Scenics coarse turf but a little smaller. Once dry I repeated the process. Again photo above is initial application,.

Last thing was Noch leaves. As I stated before this stuff is night and day for trees.

Next up was Woodland Scenics ready make tress. They come in two basic flavors - standard and premium.

On the left is the WS standard tree. It looks like the tree was flooded with glue and WS bushes were piled on. Rather then strip the tree bare I removed most of the material but left some on individual branches.

I repeated the procedure I did for the scrub brush trees but needed to apply the 12mm static grass only once. I followed up with the Busch foliage then Noch leaves.

Last up is a Woodland Scenics Premium tree. More expensive but better made.

All I did here was add Noch leaves.

Joe, your experimenting with different materials from different sources has made for good results.