EDIT: New Layout Ideas - 8x12

You can do a lot with 8' x 8'. The first thing in you design is to make to 4' x 8' rectangles and design the track on those. That way you can aware of the location of the seam to keep a removable track there for table separation. EDIT: you can also pay attention to the 48" grid line with a standard baseboard

Note in your idea there are switches on the long seam in the center.

Elevations are fine, but will complicate moving and storage as they will require extra care and space.

Attached is a photo of a D-265 Lionel Dealer Display that is 8' x 8' and is in O36 curves with Lionel Super O. That may start your ideas flowing. here's a tv ad of the layout (click on blue)

Thanks for the suggestions!

The layout in the pic/vid looks cool. I need o-54 min for the outer loop or two. The rest is up in the air.

I'll keep the elevations in mind...The cross-over switch was placed there temporarily.

The layout attached uses Atlas O primarily with Ross/Atlas switches. The red track is the outer loop and ground level. The blue track is the second inner loop that is elevated, and the green track is the third level that climbs to the upper circle. The middle is up for grabs... Thinking about a yard or to leave room for my Lego set-up

I can't see the levels and grades clearly or you have the grades too steep.

  Postwar tressle set grades are about 5‰ which is very steep. Some engines might have trouble alone at 5% . Use 2.5%-3% max(two sets)  if you want to climb with near everything made and/or do prototypical operations. You need 6-7" *above the rail head* for clearance too (+ track hieght off layout). That will cover most cars and engines but a crane or raised rocket boom will still catch.

You also need to transition into and out of a grade at the top too. It doesnt go right from 0 to 2%. at one joint.   (too fast a transition you may get pilot/cow catchers bottoming on the center rail, couplers binding vertically against each other or coming loose vertically, draw bars hitting the center rail or pushing down on the reciever, etc.)

   Scarm has a learning curve but it becomes simpler with more use and the learning of "tricks" like grabbing whole areas, duplicate, etc.. But you have to crawl before you can walk, let alone run. 

Adriatic posted:

I can't see the levels and grades clearly or you have the grades too steep.

  Postwar tressle set grades are about 5‰ which is very steep. Some engines might have trouble alone at 5% . Use 2.5%-3% max(two sets)  if you want to climb with near everything made and/or do prototypical operations. You need 6-7" *above the rail head* for clearance too (+ track hieght off layout). That will cover most cars and engines but a crane or raised rocket boom will still catch.

You also need to transition into and out of a grade at the top too. It doesnt go right from 0 to 2%. at one joint.   (too fast a transition you may get pilot/cow catchers bottoming on the center rail, couplers binding vertically against each other or coming loose vertically, draw bars hitting the center rail or pushing down on the reciever, etc.)

   Scarm has a learning curve but it becomes simpler with more use and the learning of "tricks" like grabbing whole areas, duplicate, etc.. But you have to crawl before you can walk, let alone run. 

 

Thanks for the reply and suggestions!

I'm planning on using two sets of tressels for that reason alone. Should I use wood ramps, I'm open to suggestions for the type of wood for levels/ramps, etc.

Is there an option to insert grades/levels in SCARM? The red track is the ground level outer loop. Blue is the second loop that inclines up to the second level and back down, and the green continues to climb from the blue switch to the upper circle. My apologies should anyone be colorblind.

It helps it you attach your SCARM file so those with SCARM can see elevations and make suggested changes rather than try to explain them with words.

To create a grade you select the tracks you want to include in your grade.
Then select the Track Height icon (1). This displays track heights.
Also select the Input icon (2). This allows you to change heights.
Next select one of the end Heights (3) and change it to the desired height. If it's O,just enter the height you want. If it's not zero, delete what's there and enter the height you want.

In this example I entered 2" and you can see it created a 3.3% grade. Add or delete tracks in your selection or change the height to get the grade you want. You will need about 6" of clearance over any track the grade crosses. Many trestle sets create a 5% grade and most think that's too steep and try for something between 2% and 3% or so. A lot depends on the engines you will run and the length of your trains.

DoubleDAZ posted:

It helps it you attach your SCARM file so those with SCARM can see elevations and make suggested changes rather than try to explain them with words.

To create a grade you select the tracks you want to include in your grade.
Then select the Track Height icon (1). This displays track heights.
Also select the Input icon (2). This allows you to change heights.
Next select one of the end Heights (3) and change it to the desired height. If it's O,just enter the height you want. If it's not zero, delete what's there and enter the height you want.

In this example I entered 2" and you can see it created a 3.3% grade. Add or delete tracks in your selection or change the height to get the grade you want. You will need about 6" of clearance over any track the grade crosses. Many trestle sets create a 5% grade and most think that's too steep and try for something between 2% and 3% or so. A lot depends on the engines you will run and the length of your trains.

 

Thanks, buddy.

I'll take a look at SCARM when I get home later and attach my file.

GF93,

Here's my offering. All Ross, the two mountain ends will fit together when the layout is stored as the are on opposite ends. Stacked or leaning. 6 tracks to cut and create electrical connect/disconnect feature for table separation.

A grade won't work properly if a cross-over feature is in the two. It cause one leg of the grade to be two short when using larger than O36/O31 diameter curves. So, I just made an elevated separate line.

Right-click and select save target as to save the SCARM file.

Moonman posted:

GF93,

Here's my offering. All Ross, the two mountain ends will fit together when the layout is stored as the are on opposite ends. Stacked or leaning. 6 tracks to cut and create electrical connect/disconnect feature for table separation.

A grade won't work properly if a cross-over feature is in the two. It cause one leg of the grade to be two short when using larger than O36/O31 diameter curves. So, I just made an elevated separate line.

Right-click and select save target as to save the SCARM file.

 

Thanks, Carl!

Interesting. Do you think there would be a way to put a grade from the upper 3rd loop down to the inner bottom loop? Perhaps a curved one that goes under it? Let me see what I can come up with.

I could also do 8x10, too.

My last post didn't take. Could be a good thing as google/android spelling and predictive text is a mess lately (its off, but still dont listen) Anyhow I didn't mean to leave you hanging.

  The PW tressles are pretty firm if attached to the track properly. No support or ramp other than that is needed, though doing it for looks is another story.  I.e. once attached, you can carry a small loop room to room just like normal and sort of flip/roll into place. (attach, then assemble track low to high is another tip.)

   I like masonite paneling scraps for shiming. It doesn't split, or swell easy, stacks well, takes paint, and is nice for achieving a "halved" point of the height change between two tressle letters (each height had a letter I.D. with A being tallest.)  With two sets, you need to shim 50% of them. Do it at the feet, paint as concrete. Use small screws who's threads don't put pressure against the tabs sideways; they break easy that way imo. Paint stir sticks, tounge depressers, and Popsicle sticks are ok too, but drill pilot holes as they split easy. Also mount the trestle on the pin side of tubular, letting the looser hole "hang" on the pins; smoother that way without fine tuning joints/gaps, and the rail web & foot wont spread open from weight as easy over time. 

  The best way to grade from top to bottom would likely be to use part of the center level as well.  These two guys know thier stuff on "easy" and pleasing visuals. Think hard on any suggestions they make, they are often sparing you some details.   Also state your goals about why you want certain features because then it may not seem like wasted effort on a poor sidetrack vs their streamlined express route. (oh... the hours and hours of wasted effort they have made without much thanks at times just to find there was no good reason to do it at all )

  Every inch counts with grades, that 2x8 addition may change the outlook of things substantially. 

GF93 posted:

Moonman posted:

GF93,

Here's my offering. All Ross, the two mountain ends will fit together when the layout is stored as the are on opposite ends. Stacked or leaning. 6 tracks to cut and create electrical connect/disconnect feature for table separation.

A grade won't work properly if a cross-over feature is in the two. It cause one leg of the grade to be two short when using larger than O36/O31 diameter curves. So, I just made an elevated separate line.

Right-click and select save target as to save the SCARM file.

 

Thanks, Carl!

Interesting. Do you think there would be a way to put a grade from the upper 3rd loop down to the inner bottom loop? Perhaps a curved one that goes under it? Let me see what I can come up with.

Eliminating the ability to cross over between the two lines will permit a grade on the 8' x 8'. The switches pin down the track or are limiting the length of grade.

Here is the O54 & O42 loops with the O52 having a 4% grade by rising to 5". Not high enough to tunnel under.

All,

Thanks for your replies, and I apologize for not getting back sooner (work, life, etc.).

After reading through the comments, suggestions, etc., I'm deciding to go with an 8x12 layout. I'd like to have 3-4 trains running at once with an upper level. I'd still like to have one of the loops incline up to the upper level, or have a switch that goes to a "hill." Again, I'll see what I can do in SCARM and attach it. I'm still learning the software, but I still have no idea what I'm doing

Bridges, etc., a plus (I have two).

What is the height of engines/cars that will have to pass under the elevated track? The old trestle sets only rise to 4 3/4", then to 5 1/2". That's the rub on the incline(grade) track. At least 6" is needed for sufficient clearance. Height of rail head plus height of engine or car. 6" eliminates maxi-stack container cars and a few others.