New Licensing Deal for Lionel ERR Products

Scott,

Congratulations.

Delighted you took this aboard at your place. Absolutely demonstrates that you ARE crazy!

Seriously, wonderful  news for everyone who wants to fix or upgrade their trains with

TMCC components.

Ed Boyle

 

 

 

Scott and his team absolutely deserve credit for jumping in to save the ERR products. However, everyone should heed Scott’s own words that this can’t last forever and 3R/GGD should not be vilianized (in the way Lionel was) when the product ultimately is discontinued for technology turn/obsolescence reasons. That day is coming, and when it does, it won’t be Scott’s fault.  TMCC is contemporaneous with Windows 3.1 - a technology Microsoft replaced 23 years ago and wholly stopped supporting 17 years ago. At some point, a replacement technology will be required no matter how much goodwill and effort Scott’s team infuses into the current effort. In the meantime, it’s great Scott’s team can make it work for everyone involved. 

Rider Sandman posted:

Scott and his team absolutely deserve credit for jumping in to save the ERR products. However, everyone should heed Scott’s own words that this can’t last forever and 3R/GGD should not be vilianized (in the way Lionel was) when the product ultimately is discontinued for technology turn/obsolescence reasons. That day is coming, and when it does, it won’t be Scott’s fault.  TMCC is contemporaneous with Windows 3.1 - a technology Microsoft replaced 23 years ago and wholly stopped supporting 17 years ago. At some point, a replacement technology will be required no matter how much goodwill and effort Scott’s team infuses into the current effort. In the meantime, it’s great Scott’s team can make it work for everyone involved. 

Great post, I can agree with you in most of what you said. I may or may not speak for myself here but the root of the issue here isn't the "inevitable death of TMCC", I mean every type of technology dies, like windows 3.1 and the extremely useful Turbo button lol, BUTTTT those technologies were replaced with new, better, shoot even more affordable and durabel technology. What I'm trying to get at, and the reason I think people "villainized" ERR and/or Lionel, which was the same company technically speaking, was  because they are saying that the technology is becoming obsolete but not offering a viable replacement.

Look at MTH for example, I've used their PS3 upgrade kits, be it a killer on the wallet and a little harder to install, with great success and that is, and will always be, their product for those with great running engines but want to add some current features and/or you are like me and just like tinkering with stuff, I digress...

If Scott and Lionel really want this to work for the long term, and that's a big IF, gosh knows what they have planned to be honest; Those upgrades, be it to TMCC or LEGACY or TMCC with new components and features or LIONCHIEF Extreme, whatever it will be called, needs to be available. If it's not, it just looks like Lionel is just making it's customers buy new engines VS continue to enjoy our investments by adding a new smaller investment. It's a win win for Lionel to offer the upgrade.

Daniel Gonzalez

Guys, 

What's really great about this business is that the customers have some really intelligent and thoughtful suggestions. I listen even if I don't respond.

I think in the future, the path for upgrades will continue.  It's just a little early to see who and what will be involved in the upgrade business or even what the technology will be. But what I did see, is that it was too early to drop the ERR product without something else to jump to. My hope too, is that I can be involved in this evolution. But one never knows, you can just keep yourself open to it and positioned for it.

I want to take this opportunity to thank Jon Z.  Without his invention and creativity, we wouldn't be having this discussion. 

Scott

Dear Scott

Thank you and please let us have the web address as soon as it goes live. I hope the website does not crash from the orders that will come thru.

When you can also let us know if you get any other parts of the ERR product line. I have some milk cars, log and coal cars that need a refit.

Kris

 

A proud member of the Brotherhood of Carpet Layouts.  Permanent layout scheduled for early Fall 2018.

sdmann posted:

I think in the future, the path for upgrades will continue.  It's just a little early to see who and what will be involved in the upgrade business or even what the technology will be.  But what I did see, is that it was too early to drop the ERR product without something else to jump to.

Scott

I think Scott succinctly states the salient point in this whole affair - the product shouldn't have been dropped until a replacement was available, as many others above have noted as well.  It's wonderful that he's picking up the loose ball and is going to keep running with it.

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:
Rider Sandman posted:

Scott and his team absolutely deserve credit for jumping in to save the ERR products. However, everyone should heed Scott’s own words that this can’t last forever and 3R/GGD should not be vilianized (in the way Lionel was) when the product ultimately is discontinued for technology turn/obsolescence reasons. That day is coming, and when it does, it won’t be Scott’s fault.  TMCC is contemporaneous with Windows 3.1 - a technology Microsoft replaced 23 years ago and wholly stopped supporting 17 years ago. At some point, a replacement technology will be required no matter how much goodwill and effort Scott’s team infuses into the current effort. In the meantime, it’s great Scott’s team can make it work for everyone involved. 

Great post, I can agree with you in most of what you said. I may or may not speak for myself here but the root of the issue here isn't the "inevitable death of TMCC", I mean every type of technology dies, like windows 3.1 and the extremely useful Turbo button lol, BUTTTT those technologies were replaced with new, better, shoot even more affordable and durabel technology. What I'm trying to get at, and the reason I think people "villainized" ERR and/or Lionel, which was the same company technically speaking, was  because they are saying that the technology is becoming obsolete but not offering a viable replacement.

Look at MTH for example, I've used their PS3 upgrade kits, be it a killer on the wallet and a little harder to install, with great success and that is, and will always be, their product for those with great running engines but want to add some current features and/or you are like me and just like tinkering with stuff, I digress...

If Scott and Lionel really want this to work for the long term, and that's a big IF, gosh knows what they have planned to be honest; Those upgrades, be it to TMCC or LEGACY or TMCC with new components and features or LIONCHIEF Extreme, whatever it will be called, needs to be available. If it's not, it just looks like Lionel is just making it's customers buy new engines VS continue to enjoy our investments by adding a new smaller investment. It's a win win for Lionel to offer the upgrade.

I disagree about one thing. You computer OS Comparison. A toy train goes around a track. The increase of what can be done with techno will be limited. The OS changes in computers correlated to faster hardware and features and integration with a wide variety of devices. The train functions are limited. Therefore, backward compatibility can be maintained with ease. Beside's,  receiver chips are not going away any time soon. Nor FETS or optocouplers. Used in a mass number of things. Redesign, for parts non availability is another thing. Happens, all the time. So, it comes down to the expense of redesign.

Thank you Scott and thank you Lionel.  I will be out shopping again.  Also, thank you to all the forum members for stressing to Lionel in MANY ways the importance in this hobby of having options to upgrade our trains. The ERR products are easy to work with for the average Joe. 

The earth almost moved off its axis when Microsoft announced a couple years ago that they would no longer support XP. The difference, of course, is that there were other products available at the time to take its place, even though millions of people complained and were perfectly content to just keep their XP. 

Reading between the lines a little, I think Scott is saying (and Lionel CEO Hitchcock in his statement, as well) that Lionel will have another control system coming down the pike, which will supercede TMCC and be available for installations (and to 3rd Rail and Atlas as well), but that product is still in the development stage. 

sdmann posted:

Let me allay some fears and give you a few more details to avoid a lot of back and forth emails and questions. 

A. We are licensed to  produce only the following products:

1. Cruise Commander v4.1 (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

2. AC Commander (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

3. DC Commander (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

4. RSOE (RAILSOUNDS KIT) o Interconnect cables o Speaker 

5. Cruise “M” o Motor Driver

I am sorry if you don't see other items you may have wanted. Perhaps in the future we can consider it, but for now this is all that has been released  based on previous order volume.

B. Dealers of Electric Railroad will be offered Dealership status with us as well. Dealer discounts by % are the same.  We know many of the dealers's business relies on this to provide upgrades and service with some profit. So don't worry...

C. Prices will be determined by costs. We will do our best to keep the costs down, but if there are increases at the board manufacturer, we will have to pass these on in our Dealer and Retail Pricing. We won't know until we have received a quote. Give us until June 30th to know the exact prices.

D. If you missed ordering before, you will be able to order soon when our web site is up and running end of May. Orders for October will be similar to our Reservation system. No deposit required, but you better buy  when the boards arrive, or we will look at you funny when you try to order again. Then just sit back and wait for a notice of arrival when the boards are coming to us.

E. Service calls for previous product purchases (Before May 15th), will be referred back to Electric RR Company.  We currently can't answer your technical questions until we have staff in place. We warranty what we sell after May 15th 2018.

F.  I think that's enough details for now.  Once I have reviewed our web site with the folks at Lionel, and get the OK, we will release our link. 

Until then, sit tight and play play play.

Regards,

Scott Mann

 

So no Cruise Lite,  No MiniCommander2 ???

That is NOT good news.   I hope you can add those or "S" gauge upgrades will not happen.

Carl

 

 

I think this is great news for the hobby.  Thanks to Dave Olson and Scott Mann for getting this agreement to the finishline. I think this also shows the worth of the OGR forum and its members to do a modern version of a write in campaign like we tried to do in 1970 to  get Billy Grabarkewitz voted into the baseball all star game by writing his name on the ballot.   That was kind of hard to do, given the small space for actually writing in the name.   That was a long shot then, just like getting the ERR back into production today. But, Billy G did, in fact, get named as a reserve for the National League.  Billy G was a rookie third baseman for the Dodgers.

 

Dave B, from Tacoma, WA, TCA #14-70330

 

Congrats Scott for picking this up. I specialize in TMCC installations and particularly "S" gauge. There are a bunch of us in S gauge that only use the Cruise Lite because the DC, AC and Cruise Commanders are to big for most of S gauge engines. I am hoping that in the future this may be something you can also manufacture. 

Thanks,

Ed Goldin

Lionel Authorized Repair Station

Specializing in American Flyer, S-Helper and

American Models TMCC Installations

Authorized ERR Dealer

Member TCA & NASG 





 

 

Carl Tuveson posted:
sdmann posted:

Let me allay some fears and give you a few more details to avoid a lot of back and forth emails and questions. 

A. We are licensed to  produce only the following products:

1. Cruise Commander v4.1 (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

2. AC Commander (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

3. DC Commander (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

4. RSOE (RAILSOUNDS KIT) o Interconnect cables o Speaker 

5. Cruise “M” o Motor Driver

I am sorry if you don't see other items you may have wanted. Perhaps in the future we can consider it, but for now this is all that has been released  based on previous order volume.

B. Dealers of Electric Railroad will be offered Dealership status with us as well. Dealer discounts by % are the same.  We know many of the dealers's business relies on this to provide upgrades and service with some profit. So don't worry...

C. Prices will be determined by costs. We will do our best to keep the costs down, but if there are increases at the board manufacturer, we will have to pass these on in our Dealer and Retail Pricing. We won't know until we have received a quote. Give us until June 30th to know the exact prices.

D. If you missed ordering before, you will be able to order soon when our web site is up and running end of May. Orders for October will be similar to our Reservation system. No deposit required, but you better buy  when the boards arrive, or we will look at you funny when you try to order again. Then just sit back and wait for a notice of arrival when the boards are coming to us.

E. Service calls for previous product purchases (Before May 15th), will be referred back to Electric RR Company.  We currently can't answer your technical questions until we have staff in place. We warranty what we sell after May 15th 2018.

F.  I think that's enough details for now.  Once I have reviewed our web site with the folks at Lionel, and get the OK, we will release our link. 

Until then, sit tight and play play play.

Regards,

Scott Mann

 

So no Cruise Lite,  No MiniCommander2 ???

That is NOT good news.   I hope you can add those or "S" gauge upgrades will not happen.

Carl

 

 

Carl Tuveson posted:
sdmann posted:

Let me allay some fears and give you a few more details to avoid a lot of back and forth emails and questions. 

A. We are licensed to  produce only the following products:

1. Cruise Commander v4.1 (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

2. AC Commander (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

3. DC Commander (Including) o R4LC o Prog/Run Switch o Antenna

4. RSOE (RAILSOUNDS KIT) o Interconnect cables o Speaker 

5. Cruise “M” o Motor Driver

I am sorry if you don't see other items you may have wanted. Perhaps in the future we can consider it, but for now this is all that has been released  based on previous order volume.

B. Dealers of Electric Railroad will be offered Dealership status with us as well. Dealer discounts by % are the same.  We know many of the dealers's business relies on this to provide upgrades and service with some profit. So don't worry...

C. Prices will be determined by costs. We will do our best to keep the costs down, but if there are increases at the board manufacturer, we will have to pass these on in our Dealer and Retail Pricing. We won't know until we have received a quote. Give us until June 30th to know the exact prices.

D. If you missed ordering before, you will be able to order soon when our web site is up and running end of May. Orders for October will be similar to our Reservation system. No deposit required, but you better buy  when the boards arrive, or we will look at you funny when you try to order again. Then just sit back and wait for a notice of arrival when the boards are coming to us.

E. Service calls for previous product purchases (Before May 15th), will be referred back to Electric RR Company.  We currently can't answer your technical questions until we have staff in place. We warranty what we sell after May 15th 2018.

F.  I think that's enough details for now.  Once I have reviewed our web site with the folks at Lionel, and get the OK, we will release our link. 

Until then, sit tight and play play play.

Regards,

Scott Mann

 

So no Cruise Lite,  No MiniCommander2 ???

That is NOT good news.   I hope you can add those or "S" gauge upgrades will not happen.

Carl

 

 

Carl, I didn't even think about them for S gauge. The size constraint's . I've used 2 of them for smaller lionel steamers. It's sad, especially, when Lionel has been trying to increase interest and production of S. No, one knows the license deal that Scott has with Lionel. It did sound like he had the right to make them. But, the order numbers didn't justify making them. Understood!

Maybe, you could put in a big order?

I also wonder, can he pass on the right to someone else that would be willing to do small runs. He seems like a square guy. So, I'm sure he will clarify.

What do you mean “this is not good news” this morning there was no chance of an ERR product being available, now there is. You’ll have to wait n see. I’m sure Scott will pick up the cruise lite down the way

MTH Authorized Service Tech

President Chief Operations Officer, The Lenny Lines

 

I love my trains!!!

 

http://www.netanimations.net/Moving-picture-steam-locomotive-running-animated-gif.gif

For those who have specific requests or needs, might I suggest avoiding too much heat,  without much light which was a significant element in the original discussions?  Please just let 3rd Rail and Scott get things going, stay calm, reasonable and polite.  Let him know what you want with a civil, informative and rational email or letter. When the dust settles, you may get what you need.

Brewman1973 posted:

I think this is great news for the hobby.  Thanks to Dave Olson and Scott Mann for getting this agreement to the finishline. I think this also shows the worth of the OGR forum and its members to do a modern version of a write in campaign like we tried to do in 1970 to  get Billy Grabarkewitz voted into the baseball all star game by writing his name on the ballot.   That was kind of hard to do, given the small space for actually writing in the name.   That was a long shot then, just like getting the ERR back into production today. But, Billy G did, in fact, get named as a reserve for the National League.  Billy G was a rookie third baseman for the Dodgers.

 

Lol, Boog Powell, Look at all those poor players never on a World series team. Lol, If we took all the Yankees World series rings and melted down the gold. One could make electric railroad PCB's for a couple of hundred years.

Matt Makens posted:

HMMMM, I’m surprised nobody saw this coming. This is a great deal for everybody. Congratulations Scott on a job well done.

I need to get my $900 back from ERR before I can order more

Lol, 900.00... I leave that for tips. 

All good suggestions. I am listening. Give us time. I want to focus on the product line that can support the cost of production first.  After all, it's a business and it can't run on good intentions. Gots to have sales.

Out of the various mini commanders, which one, if only 1 could be made, would be the one that has the most universal usage?

Thanks Scott and Lionel for keeping a great product line available!!

I know it's old tech but like the old Maytag washers it works reliably and dependably.

Now I have a path forward to update more of my older Weaver and Williams brass steamers.

Some sort of a "dummy" commander would be useful for sound cars and non powered locos.

Now I need to save up for a bigger order when production resumes  !!!!!

Dave

 

Landsteiner posted:

For those who have specific requests or needs, might I suggest avoiding too much heat,  without much light which was a significant element in the original discussions?  Please just let 3rd Rail and Scott get things going, stay calm, reasonable and polite.  Let him know what you want with a civil, informative and rational email or letter. When the dust settles, you may get what you need.

I let you spear head this one.  It didn't go so well last time with some even though a lot of folks tried. LOL!

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature Line...

"If I had a dollar every time someone told me , 'It ain't gonna happen',  I'd be Rich"

 

I'm glad people will be able to get what they need.

For what it's worth the only part on these boards that I can think of that could become unavailable, without another part existing that is a direct drop in replacement, is a microprocessor. Perhaps before a new high volume run of boards is produced would be a good time to update the processor, if that is an issue.  Unless some obscure footprint part was used elsewhere?  

I can't see it being unprofitable to make any of these boards, unless the licensing fee is obscene.  

$ This is John Galt speaking.  $

“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” 

 

 

Matt Makens posted:

What do you mean “this is not good news” this morning there was no chance of an ERR product being available, now there is. You’ll have to wait n see. I’m sure Scott will pick up the cruise lite down the way

For the S Gauge world it is not Good news. This is My and many other users world too.

People seem to forget that back then need for small format modules was the reason ERR got started in the first place with the Mini Commander, their first product.

Conversion of American Models Diesels is impossible with out the Mini's and Mini-2s.

I hope they reconsider these. The Cruise Lite was also great for smaller O gauge conversions. 

I don't have the resources to buy a large lot myself but the engineering and tooling still exists so how much would it cost to crank out these too? 

Carl

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