New Lionel 2026 Restoration

Your best bet is to take the E unit out and see what's going on.  Especially if you say the E unit is cocked.   Otherwise you can spray on its contact cleaner and see what happens.

I have sprayed with contact cleaner and partially removed the e-unit from the frame and can see where the drum roller is not sitting straight across. I'll go back tonight and take a closer look.

Thanks

I would scrape the contacts on the E unit drum and the fingers riding on the drum very carefully with small, sharp and pointy knife until shinny and clean.

Charlie

I'll try that tonight Charlie and let you know what happens.

If the drum is crocked no amount of spraying or scraping is going to fix it. The e-unit needs to be taken apart and repaired.  Most likely will need a new drum. 

I could be wrong but I think what you have is an early '51 version.  The ridge on the inside of the middle wheel is the give-away.  There is mention of it in the Lionel service manual.  I think this caused derailing problems on some switches.  By 1953, all locos of this type had a smooth tread on the middle wheels (i.e., without the ridge.)

nice score! good luck.

 Rebuilding the unit is about a 20 minute job if you have the correct tool. Go to Jeff Kane at Train Tender.com  and buy an e unit separator tool plus a drum and replacement contacts. The total cost including the tool should be less than $25 including the tool which you can use in the future.

Also, Jeff has rebuilt e units at very competitive prices.

What Forest said above. In older engines the plastic contact drum in the E-unit gets deformed and wedges itself so it won't move. I repaired a 1666 for a friend and the E-unit drum looked like somebody had chewed on it. Take a look and if the drum is misshapen or cracked just replace it. Check the bottom contacts too. It's not a big tear-down job, hardest part is messing with the E-unit to replace the drum/contacts.

O Gauge Jim posted:

 Rebuilding the unit is about a 20 minute job if you have the correct tool. Go to Jeff Kane at Train Tender.com  and buy an e unit separator tool plus a drum and replacement contacts. The total cost including the tool should be less than $25 including the tool which you can use in the future.

Also, Jeff has rebuilt e units at very competitive prices.

More like an hour the first time, 20 minutes or less the second time.  Not a difficult job, just a juggling act!  

Ted S posted:

I could be wrong but I think what you have is an early '51 version.  The ridge on the inside of the middle wheel is the give-away.  There is mention of it in the Lionel service manual.  I think this caused derailing problems on some switches.  By 1953, all locos of this type had a smooth tread on the middle wheels (i.e., without the ridge.)

My understanding is that the '51's and '52's had two wheel rear pilots and mine has a four wheel rear pilot. In addition, my engine has roller pickups instead of sliding shoes.

Both of those factors should make it a '53, I believe.

Richie C. posted:

Ted S posted:

I could be wrong but I think what you have is an early '51 version.  The ridge on the inside of the middle wheel is the give-away.  There is mention of it in the Lionel service manual.  I think this caused derailing problems on some switches.  By 1953, all locos of this type had a smooth tread on the middle wheels (i.e., without the ridge.)

My understanding is that the '51's and '52's had two wheel rear pilots and mine has a four wheel rear pilot. In addition, my engine has roller pickups instead of sliding shoes.

Both of those factors should make it a '53, I believe.

Afraid not.  My own 2026 is a '51 (I know this because Santa brought it for me at Christmas, 1951), and it has the four-wheel rear truck.

Yep.  The 1948-49 models had a die-cast 2-wheel trailing truck, and sliding shoes.  They also had separate handrails and a less-detailed body casting. 

The rollers and open four-wheel trailing truck came for 1950, and that model was designated a 2036.  In 1951, magnetic materials were needed for the Korean war.  So the motor lost its magnetraction and the loco got its old number back, 2026.  I said 1951 because of the weird ridge on your middle wheels.  None of the locos from the mid-to-late 1950s had it, so I guess this is an early model.

Came across this from Tandem Associates.

"The Lionel Prairie Type 2-6-2-Locomotive No. 2026 was issued on two different occasions by Lionel. This accounts for the two major variations of this locomotive. We’ve listed all of these variations below.

"The North Ameican engine that that never was".

Except for a rumored SF test-Prarie with a booster truck that supposedly inspired the model, and a photoless ledgend that a Michigan logger Con Culhane had a mid 1880s loco a 4 wheel trailing truck, but may have done that mod himself, none were made here.

Rich, reverse the leads for either the brushes or the field positions and you'll run in forward until you get repaired.

   Look for slop in the axle bearings and gear play on posts while you're torn down. These will run until they skip teeth when worn bad.  The rear gear seems to skip first most often.

There are two e-unit tools (at least). One is a special pry bar, the other is a clamp that spreads vs compacts.  I never had the pleasure of using the real thing, I have some toolmaker clamps I can flip to open the I.D. (like mini versions of woodworking 2-hand-screw shop clamps.)

I did reverse the leads and it goes forward. The wheels and gears appear in excellent condition with virtually no wear or slop. I cleaned up the brushes and comm surface, so everything on the motor side looks good.

I've decided to get a refurbished e-unit to get the train up and running and also order the spreading tool, drum, fingers, etc. to rebuild the existing e-unit on my schedule. I also need a left side rod and cross-head, a light bulb, and I'm not exactly sure what smoke unit is in it. It has a "cream" colored "brick" in it with tiny silver wires wrapped around it. I'd like to convert it to liquid.   

With all that said, I plan on giving Jeff a call to order the necessary parts and will post my progress as the restoration goes along.

Thanks

That smoke unit was originally designed for smoke pellets. But you can use it with liquid also if it is still operational. Just don't overfill it.

Train Nut posted:

That smoke unit was originally designed for smoke pellets. But you can use it with liquid also if it is still operational. Just don't overfill it.

That's what I figured, but wasn't sure. I believe it's also missing all the internal parts, springs, levers, etc. that I'll have to pick up. Thanks

  I think the orig. smoke unit should be a ceramic wire wrapped disc glued onto a small board. Sort of round & flat, vs a brick; unless early ones used a brick and I've only seen later ones. (possible)

  It sounds like that may be an old rectangular ceramic resistor with the outer most layer removed. Not totally "wrong", that is kinda what liquid units use, a resistor of some kind or another. Extra ceramic will help cool wire from burnout if it goes dry. That is the big diffence on type and why pellet units can run dry, and most liquid units can't, the ceramic cooling & wire gauge/quality is better on the pellet units.

 You'll see a raised intake vent inside the sm.unit's bowl. That is your max fill level; excess will leak out of the piston/cylinder & make a mess as you run if you overfill it past that vent.  

  I've seen a couple of engines belonging to a pal years back that didn't have a raised vent, just a simple hole in the bottom.  I don't know if they had broken off or what, but those two pellet units couldn't be used with liquid well. Only 5 or 6 drops at a time to saturate the packing. Works; but they needed to be refilled constantly with liquid, so he uses pellets there again.

If you need to refernce part #s, try Olsen's Trains. Getting into the library takes a little navigation experimentation, but it's a good one.

Adriatic posted:

  I think the orig. smoke unit should be a ceramic wire wrapped disc glued onto a small board. Sort of round & flat, vs a brick; unless early ones used a brick and I've only seen later ones. (possible)

  It sounds like that may be an old rectangular ceramic resistor with the outer most layer removed. Not totally "wrong", that is kinda what liquid units use, a resistor of some kind or another. Extra ceramic will help cool wire from burnout if it goes dry. That is the big diffence on type and why pellet units can run dry, and most liquid units can't, the ceramic cooling & wire gauge/quality is better on the pellet units.

 You'll see a raised intake vent inside the sm.unit's bowl. That is your max fill level; excess will leak out of the piston/cylinder & make a mess as you run if you overfill it past that vent.  

  I've seen a couple of engines belonging to a pal years back that didn't have a raised vent, just a simple hole in the bottom.  I don't know if they had broken off or what, but those two pellet units couldn't be used with liquid well. Only 5 or 6 drops at a time to saturate the packing. Works; but they needed to be refilled constantly with liquid, so he uses pellets there again.

If you need to refernce part #s, try Olsen's Trains. Getting into the library takes a little navigation experimentation, but it's a good one.

Thanks, Adriatic. I've been on Olsen's and the Train Tender sites the last couple of days reviewing parts, instructions and diagrams.

Now I've discovered that a replacement smoke unit that uses just liquid is available as well as a fully electronic replacement e-unit and also an led headlight replacement.

So many decisions to make - who knew restoring an old train would get so complicated ?

Richie C. posted:

Now I've discovered that a replacement smoke unit that uses just liquid is available...

If you go that route, you will be replacing the heater regularly. Stay with the NiChrome/ceramic unit and you will likely never replace it again unless somebody physically damages it.

ADCX Rob posted:

Richie C. posted:

Now I've discovered that a replacement smoke unit that uses just liquid is available...

If you go that route, you will be replacing the heater regularly. Stay with the NiChrome/ceramic unit and you will likely never replace it again unless somebody physically damages it.

Thanks, Rob - advice taken.

There are many differences between the early version (sliding shoe) and the later version. I have both. Almost nothing fits from one to the other. Some experience here. The early ones have valve gear The later ones don't but it can be added ask Jeff he can tell you which parts to use. I use a snap ring pliers to spread the Eunit. I have customized one of mine Its a fun project If I ever figure out how to post a picture I will. Maybe one of my grand kids will show me how. 

I assume that would be Jeff at the Train Tender?

@Al Smeraldo Once you start typing, look low to the right in blue for "attachment tool". Open (allow access, that's normal), find your pic, wait for loading (choosing more while it's busy is ok), wait for...processing & success. Now check off the new check box that just appeared (mid way, small text) "insert large size". Hit finished. Now finish any typing if needed and post. Another insert option is now at the bottom each pic box, below composing box, on the main page too. 

Richie C. posted:

ADCX Rob posted:

Richie C. posted:

Now I've discovered that a replacement smoke unit that uses just liquid is available...

If you go that route, you will be replacing the heater regularly. Stay with the NiChrome/ceramic unit and you will likely never replace it again unless somebody physically damages it.

Thanks, Rob - advice taken.

Wise move.  My own 2026 was my first locomotive, and as a kid I used to load it with smoke pellets.  And when it stopped smoking, I just added more, thinking that would do the trick.

 When I retrieved it from my parents' attic in the Seventies and began to get it back in running condition, the smoke unit was completely clogged with waxy goo from my indiscriminate pill-popping when I was six.

I was sure the smoke unit would have to be replaced, but I found that thoroughly cleaning out the accumulated crud and replacing the wicking material was all it needed.  I have used nothing but liquid smoke in it (and in all my postwar trains) ever since.

Installed the electronic e-unit last night and, after testing, took her out for her maiden voyage. Hardest part was finding room to mount the unit and not have anything caught up or binding - it's tight in there. Ran pretty good for an engine that was made around the year I was born.  

Nice...well done! 

Mark in Oregon

Postwar Lionel is amazing. Give them half a chance and off they go, ready for more decades of use!!

Andre

The engine had the top parts of the smoke unit, but not the piston and lever assembly, which I was able to obtain separately. It looks like the rod ends of the piston and lever assembly fit into small u-shaped channels on either side of the steam chest, but my engine only had the side rods, main rod and crosshead, so there's nothing for the rod ends to connect to.

From what I can tell, there should be another piece (above the crosshead) on each side that the lever rod ends fit into and that piece also extends into the top hole in the cylinder, but I'm not sure what that piece is called - maybe the "off-set" ? Is there anything else I would need to complete the lever hook-up ?

Also, from the attached pic, it looks like the main rod also has an offset piece where it connects to the center wheel instead of directly to the center screw. Is that correct for the later 1951-1953 version with 4 wheel rear pilot and pick-up rollers ?

Thanks. 

My dad gave me the 2026 freight train 1948.  

It still runs well.  My first grandson has it now.

@Richie C. The pic you posted is the '48-'49 model, there are differences.  Did you look at the Lionel Service Manual hosted in Olsen's Toy Train library?  http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2026-51.htm  You might be able to find photos of one disassembled on a popular auction site, or elsewhere on the internet.  (You can also search for the 2018 because mechanically it's the same.)

From my own imperfect memory, the smoke lever is wedged between the steam chest and the chassis.  There were no "bearings" for it to ride in, as such.  As it says in the service notes, it would occasionally bind up in operation.  Hope this helps!

  I don't know for 100% because I actually have the 2037 Adriatic (Prarie with a 'booster truck' , but I think only the magnetraction parts differ, and if you don't care about magnetraction, 2026 parts fit.

  The smoke lever sits in two channels between the cylinder and crosshead, and is thrown by the crosshead.

 The crosshead has a cast on rod going to the cylinder too.  The later wheels are flat (low eccentric crank boss) and have a "machine spacer" vs a tall boss (if I remember right the early had a tall boss). (other folks/business may call a spacer a standoff, but normally a standoff sees no motion, does no motion; and a spacer is a "thick" thrust washer which is often free to turn or contact a turning piece.)

Give me ten min. and I'll post my linkage parts (it's dissassembled).

I don't know if it is correct, but there is a light conical spring sitting on my piston to help prevent the piston from hanging up near top dead center. (wide end up so the small end stays on center and can't rub the cylinder wall or manage to get caught up between cycl. wall and piston skirt.

When it comes to the headlamp socket, the bottom clearance is very tight to the pilot truck guide plate. When a bulb is inserted, it is possible for exposed wire &/or part of the terminal to be pushed down and out of the socket just a hair, shorting out on the plate below it. I may drill a hole or grind a halfmoon so the wire can exit sideways instead ...just an idea. I haven't looked to see how realistic the idea might be.

Took longer than 10 min. as Google Android is messed up beyond belief ( I have to use three browsers to do anything, and still limited.)  I only use Android because of the price. I'd advise avoiding it if you can. I won't touch the Google engines and disable everything I can from them.... I trust Facebook more (which is about 2/1000ths of an ounce of trust for FB). The fact everyone is still lemming-ing behind these two crap companies is so Orwellistic it's scary. 

Anyhow, here is the linkage,rods,crossheads etc. for the 2037. (these have seen wheel sets worn out. Mega-hours of running on them. (Note the ridges from wear on the backside of the lower rod )

   This may be my last post for a long while fyi (months) ; it's just too frustrating and all parties involved past my fingers, all just point thier fingers at each other. I keep expecting the Family Circus "Not Me" ghost to appear . 

  I'm tired of spending 3 days a month minimum struggling to perform the simplest of tasks because coders can't keep it right for 30days straight.  I just want  to read, navigate, and post sometimes. That's it... no shopping, paying, legal BS, or social sites (except this one). I shouldn't have more issues in 2019 than ever, I should have less, and blame Google/Android mostly.  (because MS is trying to be Google-II or i-II, and Apple isn't even close to being something I'd consider (my brother budgets a few grand a year just for new i-ware for the family. I cannot. (would not anyhow... far too much $; not worth it) I sure wish MS would walk thier own path again. Copying the others styles just isn't working out, they are just as bad now.  (even when I had viruses Windows navigated than the others.)

(e g, the photo was ready 4min after the last post, but browser fun delayed me a half hour, then this small post took over a half hour to type because composing requires "200" corrections of spellwreck program mistakes. No wonder I went from 70 replies a day to 7, eh?).

Thanks, Ted - you're right, the pic is the earlier model and the schematic I have for the '51-'53 models don't show the a valve gear assembly which looks like it drives the smoke piston lever.

That's why I was wondering what makes the smoke piston lever go up and down, since the cross head seems too far away, but maybe it does. I have a smoke piston and lever assembly coming in, so I guess I'll wait and see how it all comes together and report back.

Adriatic - that's exactly the rod system I have. It just doesn't look like it will drive the smoke piston lever, but I'll install the new one when it comes in and see what happens. Thanks and don't give up - we would miss you insight and knowledge on the Forum.

Yes, it is the crosshead that operates the smoke lever.  If that doesn't work on your 2026, something is wrong.

Sounds good, Balshis - hopefully the new smoke piston and lever assembly will arrive today or tomorrow and I can get it sorted out.

Quick update - the parts to rebuild the old e-unit came in from the Train Tender and rebuit it. Looked so good, I pulled the new Dallee unit out and re-installed the rebuilt unit and it runs great. I'll save the Dallee unit for my next project - maybe a larger engine where there's more room to mount it.

This look great; you did a nice job with the restoration... 

Mark in Oregon

Thanks, Mark - used to race r/c cars so I'm used to doing a lot of wiring, soldering, motor, brush and electro-mechanical work; although it was "interesting" trying to get the parts on the e-unit in place w/o the other ones falling out ! 

I'm still kickin' rocks 😑 but kickin' um here, & tryin' to smile 😬

The piston assembly will lay loose in the slots until you lock everything down with the steam chest.

This is another loco with a similar set up, but on the engineers side instead. (665)  The dot in front of the bolt head is the end of the piston rocker arm (stepped bend) and moves fore and aft , piston and gravity(&/or spring on piston) keep it resting on the crosshead. (the spring seen is so if the piston hangs up, it doesn't bind up all the way to the motor, and softens compression and shock in side thrusts too. 

That's it - got the smoke piston and lever assembly yesterday and installed it last night. Works exactly as everyone has pointed out - the lever is moved by the cross-head on the left side of the engine.

One last (hopefully) question - there is one wire coming from the e-unit to the "motor side" of the smoke unit. Is there supposed to be a second (ground) wire attached to the "front side" of the smoke unit ?

Thanks, again.  

Richie C. posted:

..Is there supposed to be a second (ground) wire attached to the "front side" of the smoke unit ?

No. It's grounded to the chassis.

Hi, Rob …. I guess, more specifically, my question is where I have the arrow at the heater element, is there supposed to be a wire or connection from that point to the chassis or frame or is the heater element grounded simply because it's physically attached to the frame ?  

The reason I ask is because if there's no more wires to attach, then it's not working right because I put a few drops of liquid smoke inside and ran it and got nothing - the heater element was not even warm.

That wire is attached to the chassis/ground.

Richie C. posted:

Hi, Rob …. I guess, more specifically, my question is where I have the arrow at the heater element, is there supposed to be a wire or connection from that point to the chassis or frame or is the heater element grounded simply because it's physically attached to the frame ?

The ground side of the element is supposed to be crimped/sandwiched between the smoke bowl and the metal cap.

I see … there is a metal "crimp" there, but I'll have to check tonight to see if the element is actually connected to it  - thanks.

Yep, it is connected, or should be anyhow.  A tab on one end, wire on the other. 

You could add a wire to the tab and chassis ground that if you wanted to.      I've had a cap fit so tight I couldn't get the tab to sandwich and still have the lid seat and another I added wire to because I didn't think there was enough pressure on the tab.  (pressure can reduce resistance more than total contact area does)

if the element isn't hot enough, you can remove a wrap and reattach. Mind that solder doesn't stick to ni-chrome heating wire, but traps it instead. So you wrap the ni-chrome then encapsulate in solder to prevent pull out.

Took apart the smoke unit and I can now see what is meant by the other end of the element being grounded by the metal tab.

Unfortunately, I can also see why it isn't working - the wire on the left side is broken.

Now have to decide if I should just get a replacement element and stay with pellets or convert to a liquid smoke unit. 

Richie C-

A lot of folks say that the wire-wound original smoke element will work with either pellets or liquid smoke fluid. Just use just 2 or 3 drops of the smoke fluid in place of the old style pellets. The big advantage is the wire-wound smoke element will last a lot longer as the original design wire is more robust than the liquid smoke conversion kit.

Carl J

Its true, either element works with fluid, but fluid units wont work with  pellets.

I mentioned "too hot", but that is also a repair tutorial if the break repair doesn't eliminate too many windings.

Quick update - I got the headlight bulb, spring and eyelet assembly and that is working ok (but somewhat dim - see below).

I got the liquid smoke replacement unit and it works great on the bench, but produces no smoke when on the track. I suspect that the running track voltage might be too low to drive the liquid smoke element (28 ohms resistance). The engine runs best at about 9.5 v (as shown on the Z-4K) and will derail on an O-31 curve at 11 volts.

IF the heater element requires more voltage, then I'm not sure if this issue is correctable, so I may have to get a pellet-type element.

Richie C. posted:

Quick update - I got the headlight bulb, spring and eyelet assembly and that is working ok (but somewhat dim - see below).

I got the liquid smoke replacement unit and it works great on the bench, but produces no smoke when on the track. I suspect that the running track voltage might be too low to drive the liquid smoke element (28 ohms resistance). The engine runs best at about 9.5 v (as shown on the Z-4K) and will derail on an O-31 curve at 11 volts.

IF the heater element requires more voltage, then I'm not sure if this issue is correctable, so I may have to get a pellet-type element.

 

I may be way out of context here, but when I bought resistors for my 2-8-0, they were only 14 ohm...

Mark in Oregon

Richie C. posted:

Now have to decide if I should just get a replacement element and stay with pellets or convert to a liquid smoke unit. 

Just to reiterate what everyone else is saying, the original pellet smoke unit will work just fine (probably better) with liquid smoke.  No need to replace it with a liquid-only unit.

When I brought my 1951 2026 back to life in the Seventies, the porous pad in its smoke unit was so clogged with pellet residue that I had to throw the pad away and install a new pad.  It's been working just fine on liquid smoke ever since.

I did buy a replacement pellet unit and it burned out a wire and left a burn mark on the liner - not sure what would have caused that (nothing is shorting), but that's why I'm trying to get the liquid unit going.

According to the pic, the element is 28 ohms ...

Richie C  and others

I have been out the country on vacation when you discovered the broken nipple on the e unit drum.  I know you have replaced the e unit.  Below is my method of repairing an e unit with a missing nipple on the drum for others and saving the time and cost of buying a new e unit.

I have repaired the missing nipples on e units several times. My method does not require wedging open the e unit frame. 

I leave the drum in the e unit and drill a small hole, slightly smaller than the hole in the frame where the nipple went, in the drum where the nipple was.  I mark the center of the drum where the nipple was with an awl to center the hole.  I drill this through the hole in the frame where the nipple would have gone.  Then I find a small round headed wood screw maybe 1/4 to 3/8 inches long and screw it into the hole which should be slightly smaller than the screw diameter size.  The screw makes its own threads in the soft plastic of the drum.  Do not tighten the screw and allow it to let the drum rotate.

This fix is stronger and should last longer than plastic nipple of the original drum.  It may not work if the plastic of the original drum is aged and crumbling.  In that case the drum should be replaced.

Charlie

That's a great tip, Charlie.

Unfortunately, the fingers on both the other e-unit pieces were severely bent and distorted (probably as a result of being run with the cocked drum), so I had no choice but to open it up and replace those parts as well. The e-unit works great now - no complaints.

I think the command units use those. Command gets a constant 14-18v at the track (mostly 18v) Holding the loco so wheels spin & it doesn't take off like a rocket, note what voltage does make smoke. (Is that enough smoke? Lower ohms get hotter per volt)

  If its only a few volts difference. It may take a minor wiring change, but you could then insert diodes for a voltage drop to the motor, full power will go to the element.  ....All as an alternative to chasing down another element of course     Ive done this to 4 locos to improve smoke with the elements on hand that weren't exactly correct, or were poor smokers when new.

  Read amps the motor draws, 4a may be enough, 6a definitely large enough and will stay cooler, but theytare bigger. Choose general purpose rectifying diodes of your amp choice. Use in pairs in opposed directions & pair legs tied together, in series with other pairs, to the e-unit input from roller wire. Each pair added eat about 0.7v.  So six diodes, 3 pairs in series eats about 1.8v-2.5v +/- a few points.  (results vary slightly by diode choice) ten diodes would give a little over 4a drop, etc, etc.  

The smoke unit gets connected between diodes and roller so it ends up with element getting a full 11.5-12v out of 11.5-12v, while the motor sees only 9.5v. of 11.5-12v  thru the diodes. 

GP rectifying diodes are super cheap if you shop (literally pennies ea.) and useful for lots of things in the hobby. 

Oh, forgot.... It sounds more like the element ni-cjromeni-cj ←spellwreck... nichrome had a flaw, if you can't imagine what shorted out.

 The PW units are FAR more robust than the liquid types.  The caps turning color from heat not unusual. Neither are cracks etc. really. (after seeing aa couple of melted tops from B.S. copies not in high heat plastic or teflon, I like to stick to the metal tops.

Which headlamp bulb # or voltage, watts, amps (printed on base)

 Im guessing it's an 18v or higher bulb. move to a 12v bulb for more brightness.

Rule of thumb, a 12v bulb burns half as bright and lasts twice as long used at 6v.  It burns twice as bright and lasts half as long on 24v.  (The heat range is something you need to check. It can occasionally not be what's expected, so I'm not even going eleborate on the "norm" because it has bit me before.

Still can't figure out why the engine smokes like a fiend on the test bench with the CW-80, but can't get a whiff when I put it on the track powered by the Z4K.

Am I missing something ? Does a button need to be pressed to get smoke ?

Adriatic posted:

  It burns twice as bright and lasts half as long on 24v.  (The heat range is something you need to check. It can occasionally not be what's expected, so I'm not even going eleborate on the "norm" because it has bit me before.

I think it's more of an exponential curve than a linear curve.

RoyBoy posted:

Adriatic posted:

  It burns twice as bright and lasts half as long on 24v.  (The heat range is something you need to check. It can occasionally not be what's expected, so I'm not even going eleborate on the "norm" because it has bit me before.

I think it's more of an exponential curve than a linear curve.

You might be right on the bulb. I thought it was a 14v  53-300 or 57-300 bayonet type, but I didn't check what they shipped me - it could be an 18v unit. I'll check tonight and post on Monday.

RoyBoy posted:

Adriatic posted:

  It burns twice as bright and lasts half as long on 24v.  (The heat range is something you need to check. It can occasionally not be what's expected, so I'm not even going eleborate on the "norm" because it has bit me before.

I think it's more of an exponential curve than a linear curve.

Very much so. It's full of variables. Once at our extremely low voltage, it's close enough to fudge more. Lower volts have thicker filiments. Long life vs normal life would react differently too.

A 120v bulb on a 110v feed would nearly double life.

  Ac vs dc is a toss up too. Ac may vibrate more breaking the tungsten, but is allows more cooling. DC currents will be higher. Throw in a gas bulb like halogen vs a vacuum and too low a temp. will effect the tungsten's life as the halogen needs to get hot to work right.  Underdriving lowers efficiency.

"Good enough" for a general understanding of what to expect; the heat retention differed from my expectations only twice that I encountered. I melted two pinball bumper tops because I didn't check the heat build up before I closed up. They were underdriven for sure. (18v fed 12v if I recall; but might have been 12v bulb @ 6v..? That was 15+ years ago.)(I had to change a few mini's daily, maybe 5-10 daily in a "spikey" week...about 100-150 a month average, 6-24v ac/dc, chopped drivers and sine. Too trivial to fret much when a few minutes, eyes and fingers tell the story for each case.) 

One of the power units is likely letting the bulb cool more via pulses. The resistance drops in the bulb, and the bulb eats more power. Or same thing reversed the element cools too fast reducing effective heat. (I forget if you are too dim or too bright on the light too. Get that right first imo. And you still might need a change later, you have a new balance between motor, bulb and element to achieve with a different element in the mix.)

Get the bulb number, watts, amps/ma, volts, lumen or all of "whatever" off the base or glass, ok?

The TUI is chopping the wave, no doubt about it. That's how the power to the engine is reduced.  The tui chops the on-time of voltage vs using resistance. The voltage will be the full voltage from transformer but turned off and on at lighting speed.  The end result for the heater is there is less on time, more cooling time, voltage being the lesser balance factor in this case, output heat stays low.

Bypass the tui with the Z4k power and I it may smoke better than the CW-80 which is also chopped (I think)   If you put the CW thru the tui (don't) it may stay even cooler as the tui could chop the wave up even more.

I would describe your operation as "command conventional" vs "command" or "conventional".... an in-between only missing the command signal.  I.e. the tui acts like a small board of a command loco.  The larger components for larger PW motor likely wouldn't fit inside a PW loco well. Plus this way doesn't require a board for every loco.

  I didn't see it included, or forgot, and it wasn't repeated on this page if I'm not mistaken. Sorry 

A low ohm element on a voltage regulator like command units use would be best for you imo. Regulators are postage stamp sized. One of GRJs little boards might even do the trick if you go that route towards "best". 

Concerning running it dry. A small switch could shut smoke off  should you run out if liquid.  Ive added them a couple of times....

Hey, to taylor it to your 2 situations (transf.), an on engine 2pos sw. for hi-low; or  3 pos. sw for off, high, low (add resistors of 14ohm total to a 14ohm element and your at 28ohm again; low)

Adriatic posted:

...Bypass the tui with the Z4k power and I it may smoke better than the CW-80 which is also chopped (I think)  

The smoke will be better on the CW or any phase controlled power supply versus a sine wave transformer like the Z4000 for a given train speed. Lionel did a video on this.

Just to close out this thread and the restoration, I was finally able to get smoke out of the engine and have attached a short video of it running. It's a little hard to see, but I think you can make out the puffs of smoke coming from the stack. I have an original style pellet type smoke element installed and am using smoke pellets (great old-time smell), although a couple drops of liquid smoke also work.

The solution was to install a bridge rectifier (a diode would also probably work) in the line going to the motor, which reduced only the voltage going to the motor (but not the smoke element or headlight) for a given track voltage input. Therefore, in order to get the train to the same speed as before, more voltage has to be applied through track power and the higher voltage was enough to overcome the resistance in the smoke element and get it to work and also brighten the headlight, while at the same time keeping the engine at a reasonable speed that would not throw it off the track in the corners.

The whistling tender also works very well now (although my seemingly disinterested assistant forgot to press the button during the video).

All in all this was a very rewarding project and I certainly learned a lot about post-war locomotives and can't wait to get started on a new one. Thanks for everyone's input.