New Lionel Catalog goes “live” Jan 20th

On the 20th, can you provide the time?....like 9:00 AM???

Dave

Vision products...

Jeff T posted:

Vision products...

Yeah that plural part is kind of important... 

Hoping for a postwar remake set since it’s an anniversary catalog. Definitely interested to see the vision products. Are we allowed to see the catalog cover?

Any previews on what's in there? 

Terrance posted:

Hoping for a postwar remake set since it’s an anniversary catalog. Definitely interested to see the vision products. Are we allowed to see the catalog cover?

I like your thinking!  

More vision rolling stock!

If recent Lionel catalog arrivals hold true, might be wise to keep an eye on your local hobby shop next week, "hopefully," another early arrival.

It would be reallllyyy cool to see a 8 to 12 car 21” PRR Congressional!!

It would be really cool if the products in this catalog are made as cataloged, defect free, and painted correctly.  It would be really cool if there are no threads stating this is wrong, that is bad, or Lionel screwed up.  Now wouldn’t that be really cool?

I’m hoping for some penn central E7’s with a super bass unit. Also a Duluth Missabe & Northern 2-8-8-2 with whistle steam. I’m hoping to see the 2-8-8-2’s issued again in some of those odd ball road names. 

superwarp1 posted:

It would be really cool if the products in this catalog are made as cataloged, defect free, and painted correctly.  It would be really cool if there are no threads stating this is wrong, that is bad, or Lionel screwed up.  Now wouldn’t that be really cool?

If Lionel had the stuff built right in the first place, there would be no need for the second part of your posting, the REALLY COOL part.

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I’m hoping for some penn central E7’s with a super bass unit. Also a Duluth Missabe & Northern 2-8-8-2 with whistle steam. I’m hoping to see the 2-8-8-2’s issued again in some of those odd ball road names. 

Penn Central had E-8's.  Lionel made E-8's in PC.

superwarp1 posted:

It would be really cool if the products in this catalog are made as cataloged, defect free, and painted correctly.  It would be really cool if there are no threads stating this is wrong, that is bad, or Lionel screwed up.  Now wouldn’t that be really cool?

I'm looking forward to the catalog.  While I have had some issues with some recent releases, we need to look forward and see what comes out.  If we are going to come out negative before the catalog even goes live, that serves nobody.  Let's keep positive.  While I have almost everything I want and need, I always look to add to my collection.  Catalog release times are always a lot of fun.  Personally I think the folks at Lionel have learned a lot over the last year so I am looking forward to a better year.  If things are incorrect,  rather than shock and aw, try a less lethal approach.  I guess I am trying to keep the half full attitude rather than half empty.

MartyE posted:

superwarp1 posted:

It would be really cool if the products in this catalog are made as cataloged, defect free, and painted correctly.  It would be really cool if there are no threads stating this is wrong, that is bad, or Lionel screwed up.  Now wouldn’t that be really cool?

I'm looking forward to the catalog.  While I have had some issues with some recent releases, we need to look forward and see what comes out.  If we are going to come out negative before the catalog even goes live, that serves nobody.  Let's keep positive.  While I have almost everything I want and need, I always look to add to my collection.  Catalog release times are always a lot of fun.  Personally I think the folks at Lionel have learned a lot over the last year so I am looking forward to a better year.  If things are incorrect,  rather than shock and aw, try a less lethal approach.  I guess I am trying to keep the half full attitude rather than half empty.

Agree. This is a good approach....I always enjoy catalog time!

Peter

MartyE posted:

superwarp1 posted:

It would be really cool if the products in this catalog are made as cataloged, defect free, and painted correctly.  It would be really cool if there are no threads stating this is wrong, that is bad, or Lionel screwed up.  Now wouldn’t that be really cool?

I'm looking forward to the catalog.  While I have had some issues with some recent releases, we need to look forward and see what comes out.  If we are going to come out negative before the catalog even goes live, that serves nobody.  Let's keep positive.  While I have almost everything I want and need, I always look to add to my collection.  Catalog release times are always a lot of fun.  Personally I think the folks at Lionel have learned a lot over the last year so I am looking forward to a better year.  If things are incorrect,  rather than shock and aw, try a less lethal approach.  I guess I am trying to keep the half full attitude rather than half empty.

Marty, 

Half full or half empty isn't relevant. How's Lionel trending is my concern. Better or worse? Can they end all the color/quality issues of these past few years?     

Putnam Division posted:

MartyE posted:

superwarp1 posted:

It would be really cool if the products in this catalog are made as cataloged, defect free, and painted correctly.  It would be really cool if there are no threads stating this is wrong, that is bad, or Lionel screwed up.  Now wouldn’t that be really cool?

I'm looking forward to the catalog.  While I have had some issues with some recent releases, we need to look forward and see what comes out.  If we are going to come out negative before the catalog even goes live, that serves nobody.  Let's keep positive.  While I have almost everything I want and need, I always look to add to my collection.  Catalog release times are always a lot of fun.  Personally I think the folks at Lionel have learned a lot over the last year so I am looking forward to a better year.  If things are incorrect,  rather than shock and aw, try a less lethal approach.  I guess I am trying to keep the half full attitude rather than half empty.

Agree. This is a good approach....I always enjoy catalog time!

Peter

While I'm looking forward to this catalog, hopefully milk cars will be in it.  I can't take a less lethal approach.  I've been burned to many times, like so many others over the years.  When Lionel's issues are in the past and no longer a concern then I can take a deep breath but first Lionel has to prove to all of use they can make a good product.  It's in their court, I don't have the money to HOPE things will get better, Lionel needs to prove it to us.

Well as much as I griped about my issues I always tried to maintain a level head.  I plan on continuing that plan.  I would be lying if there were sometimes I would have enjoyed the lethal approach but that doesn't do any good either.

Back to the catalog, I am interested to see some of the new licenses that Lionel has acquired.  I really hope they are some cool ones.  I doubt I'm in for any big steamers or hi end diesels.  As always I welcome some scale Polar Express stuff and even though they cataloged a Bay Window caboose as a teaser, I hope they redo the N5B again.  Maybe with a camera in it.

Yes I too have had my problems with some things Lionel has put out.  But in speaking with them on the phone and being civil, I always got wrong made right.  To this I thank Lionel.

I am looking forward to seeing what Lionel is coming out with next.  Always fun to see even if they don’t have the right colors or if it doesn’t sound right, it is still fun. Things like colors and sounds can be fixed.  Innovation, is what I would like seeing.  What can they push the envelope in doing with model trains.  We have seen so much come through in the past twenty years, some good some not so.  But having sounds on steamers with creeks and groans of steel at slows speeds, whistle steam, quill able whistles, etc, this is good stuff.  Going from TMCC to Legacy, the list is quite impressive.  Coming out with LionChief and LionChief+, pretty cool. What will we see in the future?  Time will tell. It just might be in the next catalog?  Stay tuned...

11 days away and that ain’t “ Fake News”! 

Important to distinguish that some of the problems (perhaps most) are real (mechanical failures; clearcut discrepancies of color) and some reflect the (sometimes unreasonable) expectations of hobbyists.  The latter examples includes the recent insistence that "my view of what stainless steel should look like is right and Lionel's approach is wrong" and "my view of what shade of red is appropriate for the N&W J is different from photos that Lionel used."  The former are real problems that everyone can agree on (mechanical failure) and the latter are more matters of opinion (or user error/irrationality).

Well, I hope that they have the catalogs in store in time for the "live" release. I know a couple of years ago it was some time after "live" that dealers finally got hard copy catalogs in stock. Some creative things came about by not having them there. I doubt that this would be an issue to most of us, I usually bring a typed out list with page numbers included with everything else that matters so nothing gets missed 

I really do hope there are some great things coming even if they aren't my cup of tea. Some of the releases over the past few years were really great and even if I didn't buy them, I appreciated what they were. I am a steamhead, and always will be but there are a few Diesel's I would buy if they ran them.

I could always use more cabooses, tank cars(older ones from the 1920-1940's) and who doesn't like a bunch of good boxcars. There are probably a few other things I would like to see as far as rolling stock, but I usually let the catalog try and dazzle me with those.

A few good steam engines would be great whether VL or Legacy, but whatever they come up with could be great. Not sure what they will be, but if NYC or PRR, I'll definitely be considering it that much is certain. There are a few other RR's I like, but they will have to compete with the aforementioned to see what I get.

Will this include all the freight cars that could not make it through the production line in the past 2 years?

Andrew

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I hope that they have the catalogs in store in time for the "live" release. I know a couple of years ago it was some time after "live" that dealers finally got hard copy catalogs in stock. Some creative things came about by not having them there. I doubt that this would be an issue to most of us, I usually bring a typed out list with page numbers included with everything else that matters so nothing gets missed 

I really do hope there are some great things coming even if they aren't my cup of tea. Some of the releases over the past few years were really great and even if I didn't buy them, I appreciated what they were. I am a steamhead, and always will be but there are a few Diesel's I would buy if they ran them.

I could always use more cabooses, tank cars(older ones from the 1920-1940's) and who doesn't like a bunch of good boxcars. There are probably a few other things I would like to see as far as rolling stock, but I usually let the catalog try and dazzle me with those.

A few good steam engines would be great whether VL or Legacy, but whatever they come up with could be great. Not sure what they will be, but if NYC or PRR, I'll definitely be considering it that much is certain. There are a few other RR's I like, but they will have to compete with the aforementioned to see what I get.

An employee at Trainland / Trainworld told me hard copy available in February /

I think items, especially high end should be painted according to any prototype out there or paint chip, balanced to normal daylight.  And put that notice in the catalog, and on the net version.  

Even something painted the right colors ballanced for daylight is going to look different under a light nallanced for something else.

This way, Lionel, or any importer can cut down problems from the get go.

Now, if Lionel wants to produce liveries never done, they can go for it....

VistaDomeScott posted:

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I’m hoping for some penn central E7’s with a super bass unit. Also a Duluth Missabe & Northern 2-8-8-2 with whistle steam. I’m hoping to see the 2-8-8-2’s issued again in some of those odd ball road names. 

Penn Central had E-8's.  Lionel made E-8's in PC.

Nice PC E units.  People will hate this, but the mating worms look good on these locomotived

20th Century Limited is all I need

I am still waiting for the Milk cars I ordered 3 years ago from one of the TCA Divisions, I am beginning to think they will arrive when I dead. Every few months we get an email saying they are coming, I don't  believe that story anymore.

Dominic, I agree.  Penn Central was a disaster but sometimes they looked great!

I hope there is a Fortnite or Overwatch train, some presidential trains and a great new batch of ready to play and LC 2.0 maybe more halloween stuff

VistaDomeScott posted:

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I’m hoping for some penn central E7’s with a super bass unit. Also a Duluth Missabe & Northern 2-8-8-2 with whistle steam. I’m hoping to see the 2-8-8-2’s issued again in some of those odd ball road names. 

Penn Central had E-8's.  Lionel made E-8's in PC.

PC also had E7's.  If one ever saw a picture of an A-B-A consist, the B unit was an E7B, as PRR or NYC never purchased E8 B units.  

I would be in for a set of PC E7's.  I missed out on the E8's.  They are a nice looking locomotive.

Tom

Tom, looking at pics of the PC E-7.  You're idea is a good one!  Saw a pic of an A-A , one tuscan ex PRR with a worm logo on nose. What about a A-B-A with one or two of Lionels now popular bandit merger paint units?  

PSU1980 posted:

I am still waiting for the Milk cars I ordered 3 years ago from one of the TCA Divisions, I am beginning to think they will arrive when I dead. Every few months we get an email saying they are coming, I don't  believe that story anymore.

As long as you don't die in the near future, I think your statement will be proven incorrect. Hope springs eternal! 

I'm hoping for the Union Pacific Tool Cars for the excursion fleet

3rd Rail didn't want to remake the NYC E7s (not E6, not E8 or E9) in the Beauty Queen paint scheme even after multiple requests to Scott but Lionel could do it. MTH did the E6s but NYC never had those. These are my stand ins until someone steps up to the plate.

Pete

Norton posted:

3rd Rail didn't want to remake the NYC E7s (not E6, not E8 or E9) in the Beauty Queen paint scheme even after multiple requests to Scott but Lionel could do it. MTH did the E6s but NYC never had thoe. These are my stand ins until someone steps up to the plate.

Pete

Pete,

Sadly it won't be Lionel either, at least not this time.  Even though it isn't the Beauty Queen paint scheme, the most recent 3rd Rail NYC E7 is spectacular in every way, especially in color and road specific detail.

I have no doubt the 3rd Rail E7s are fine models but I am more than saturated with post '45 Lightning stripe diesels.

pssst..... I know whats in the catalog too, just putting another request in Lionel's ear.

Pete

I’m curious to see what sets will be offered and if there will be any lionmaster size locomotives.

New legacy diesels wish they where diecast metal again.

It would be nice to see the EM-1 in the Lionmaster line.

I bought the buffalo Rochester & Pittsburgh mallet from about 2 years ago. I’m hoping for matching hoppers

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think items, especially high end should be painted according to any prototype out there or paint chip, balanced to normal daylight.  And put that notice in the catalog, and on the net version.  

Even something painted the right colors ballanced for daylight is going to look different under a light nallanced for something else.

This way, Lionel, or any importer can cut down problems from the get go.

Now, if Lionel wants to produce liveries never done, they can go for it....

I'm EXTREMELY happy and very thankful for so much of the new scale products Lionel has come out with. (new diesel tooling, scale autoracks, hi-cube auto parts boxcars)

But the color and graphics problems have been a huge issue for me. 

I'm a graphic designer by trade, and nothing makes me more frustrated than paying big bucks for models with stretched out or squashed logo graphics, and really bad color choices.
I'm with you on the "balanced daylight" issue too. Their colors are often way too dark and over-saturated.
Almost all the manufacturers in other scales understand this. Maybe Lionel should by some Atheran, Atlas, and Scale Trains HO models for accurate color reference?

I'm looking forward to the new catalog. I hope to see some GP40-2LW units in the CN zebra scheme and maybe some GTW GP38-2s

Arthur posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I hope that they have the catalogs in store in time for the "live" release. I know a couple of years ago it was some time after "live" that dealers finally got hard copy catalogs in stock. Some creative things came about by not having them there. I doubt that this would be an issue to most of us, I usually bring a typed out list with page numbers included with everything else that matters so nothing gets missed 

I really do hope there are some great things coming even if they aren't my cup of tea. Some of the releases over the past few years were really great and even if I didn't buy them, I appreciated what they were. I am a steamhead, and always will be but there are a few Diesel's I would buy if they ran them.

I could always use more cabooses, tank cars(older ones from the 1920-1940's) and who doesn't like a bunch of good boxcars. There are probably a few other things I would like to see as far as rolling stock, but I usually let the catalog try and dazzle me with those.

A few good steam engines would be great whether VL or Legacy, but whatever they come up with could be great. Not sure what they will be, but if NYC or PRR, I'll definitely be considering it that much is certain. There are a few other RR's I like, but they will have to compete with the aforementioned to see what I get.

An employee at Trainland / Trainworld told me hard copy available in February /

I betcha we will see hard copies at Da Big E!

You know that it will feature Santa Fe 3700 class Northerns with Legacy.  I'm sure the "Blackbonnet" being offered by Pat's Trains isn't a one-off!

I hope for a New Haven EP4 or EP5 electric or a super detailed alco rs3 diesel

Ted S posted:

You know that it will feature Santa Fe 3700 class Northerns with Legacy.  I'm sure the "Blackbonnet" being offered by Pat's Trains isn't a one-off!

Hello Ted. I believe Pat’s are based on the Northerns that appeared in 2019v2.  

Having said that, it’s definitely time for some leaks to start showing up!

Would somebody now working at Lionel decide to finally make the SOO LINE 1776 GP35 locomotive and Artrain passenger cars & extended-vision caboose?

Andrew

How about Southern Pacific bloody nose F units?  When will someone finally make some of these? 

"Read My Lips!  No.  New.  Tooling!"  At least not in die-cast metal, anyway.  Those days are over, perhaps for a long time to come.  

Some trivia to pass the time (and fuel the speculation)   What was the last really new mold for an O gauge steam loco, and when was it first catalogued?  I feel like it might have been the Legacy Milwaukee S3, or maybe the MTH Premier L4 Mohawk.  IIRC, both were circa 2009.  Did any company introduce something all-new in die-cast metal after that?

Ted S posted:

"Read My Lips!  No.  New.  Tooling!"  At least not in die-cast metal, anyway.  Those days are over, perhaps for a long time to come.  

Some trivia to pass the time (and fuel the speculation)   What was the last really new mold for an O gauge steam loco, and when was it first catalogued?  I feel like it might have been the Legacy Milwaukee S3, or maybe the MTH Premier L4 Mohawk.  IIRC, both were circa 2009.  Did any company introduce something all-new in die-cast metal after that?

Not steam but the MTH 44 ton switcher. All die cast. 

Rider Sandman posted:

Ted S posted:

You know that it will feature Santa Fe 3700 class Northerns with Legacy.  I'm sure the "Blackbonnet" being offered by Pat's Trains isn't a one-off!

Hello Ted. I believe Pat’s are based on the Northerns that appeared in 2019v2.  

Having said that, it’s definitely time for some leaks to start showing up!

Lionel did a Legacy Santa Fe 3700 class (3751) cataloged back in 2012 Vol. 2.

Terrance posted:

It would be nice to see the EM-1 in the Lionmaster line.

I'd like to see anything in the LionMaster line. Especially a N&W J.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Arthur posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I hope that they have the catalogs in store in time for the "live" release. I know a couple of years ago it was some time after "live" that dealers finally got hard copy catalogs in stock. Some creative things came about by not having them there. I doubt that this would be an issue to most of us, I usually bring a typed out list with page numbers included with everything else that matters so nothing gets missed 

I really do hope there are some great things coming even if they aren't my cup of tea. Some of the releases over the past few years were really great and even if I didn't buy them, I appreciated what they were. I am a steamhead, and always will be but there are a few Diesel's I would buy if they ran them.

I could always use more cabooses, tank cars(older ones from the 1920-1940's) and who doesn't like a bunch of good boxcars. There are probably a few other things I would like to see as far as rolling stock, but I usually let the catalog try and dazzle me with those.

A few good steam engines would be great whether VL or Legacy, but whatever they come up with could be great. Not sure what they will be, but if NYC or PRR, I'll definitely be considering it that much is certain. There are a few other RR's I like, but they will have to compete with the aforementioned to see what I get.

An employee at Trainland / Trainworld told me hard copy available in February /

I betcha we will see hard copies at Da Big E!

I would imagine February is way too late. They had that issue a few years back where the dealers gave the heck and a half. I would doubt they would want a repeat of that.

I would believe that catalogs should be in dealer's hands this week at the latest and they'll wait to show them at least until next Monday. So, we should definitely see something out there in leaks as said above if someone gets a copy or brave.

breezinup posted:

Lionel did a Legacy Santa Fe 3700 class (3751) cataloged back in 2012 Vol. 2.

Bzzt!  Not all-new, this was a reissue.  Not sure if it was the first, but 6-38055 appeared in 2004.  Let's keep guessing!!

Lionel has continually done new tooling on a limited basis throughout the last decade.  If you are looking for diecast steamers,  there have been some since 2009.  I don't have the time or interest in looking at all the catalogs, but it's there, at least according to Lionel.  Most recently the 2019 hybrid 4-4-0 steam locos for the Golden Spike models and and the 2018 SW7 diesel. Not entirely diecast metal to be sure, but new tooling is expensive for the hybrids and plastic diesels and that's just the last year.  In 2016 there were the SD45 and NW2. And for steam, the T1.  And that's just the last three years.  Not sure why one would think the only manufacturer doing any substantial new tooling isn't doing new tooling .

It’s always an exciting time when Lionel brings out their Signature Catalog of the Year. 2020, Wow, maybe a brass hybrid VL Hudson? I would be a player for a Legacy 700E Hudson. I’ve had Visionline hudsons and sold them because of the whistle. I hope they offer some nice new products, it’s always very interesting. I always find something in each catalog that fits in with my layout, hoping this one follows the same pattern. One thing for certain, BTO allows us to save our funds until delivery. When ones retired, that’s a plus. Good luck finding something nice for your collections. This is a nice thread. Happy Railroading 

Why have they not been able to produce the 4600 Cu Ft version of the ACF CENTER FLOW 3-bay covered hopper here in the USA?

Andrew

Ted S posted:

Some trivia to pass the time (and fuel the speculation)   What was the last really new mold for an O gauge steam loco, and when was it first catalogued?  I feel like it might have been the Legacy Milwaukee S3, or maybe the MTH Premier L4 Mohawk.  IIRC, both were circa 2009.  Did any company introduce something all-new in die-cast metal after that?

Lionel's heavy mikados circa 2014?

Vision line early diesel engines would be nice!

About new tooling....  sometimes when they create new tooling they do not even try to maximize the road names.  HHP-8 should have been offered in MARC Rail also.  Why not?  I'm sure they could have sold more units of the tooling.  

This is so much fun. I am setting here looking at the order form. Some will get their wish. Some maybe not.  Jan. 20th just can't come fast enough. It is fun reading about all the speculation. Haven't bought anything new in a long time but I might have to order something PRR.

Harry's Trains posted:

 

"Lionel's heavy mikados circa 2014?"

 

I think Harry might have the answer and I might add, this is an excellent model (boiler) and mechanicals from Lionel that seems to not have sold well. The drive train could have been more detailed, but for the price, it is a very nice effort. This was offered in many (6 or 7)? Road names if I remember correctly.

Another example of hooting and hollering about new tooling that the vocal minority said is needed, but sales fell short. Oh well, you can’t say Lionel did not try on that one. I will add the last run of the light Mikado in this mix as well.

Charlie

I doubt I'll order a locomotive, everything will probably be too expensive 😉. My newest locomotive is from 2005...

I may order a freight car, if there's something cool in ATSF or SP. 

@Harry's Trains the Heavy Mikado upper boiler was new.  The entire lower half, including the tiny backwards motor was reused from the Light Mikado (which was originally a K-Line mold.)

@Landsteiner I think you're right.  The Reading T1 was probably the last new steam loco.  They re-used a few pieces from the Milwaukee S3, because the boxpok wheel pattern isn't exactly right for a T1, and the rear truck is definitely the same as the S3.  So it was mostly new.  That was in 2016, four years ago.  So maybe we're due !!

Landsteiner posted:

Important to distinguish that some of the problems (perhaps most) are real (mechanical failures; clearcut discrepancies of color) and some reflect the (sometimes unreasonable) expectations of hobbyists.  The latter examples includes the recent insistence that "my view of what stainless steel should look like is right and Lionel's approach is wrong" and "my view of what shade of red is appropriate for the N&W J is different from photos that Lionel used."  The former are real problems that everyone can agree on (mechanical failure) and the latter are more matters of opinion (or user error/irrationality).

Sorry I just can't let this one pass without comment.  While there can be some opinion of color shades that are slightly off, the color of a lot of Lionel product has been inconsistent and in the case of the J incorrect.  I'm a big Lionel fan but there was a definite issue with the stripe.  Please don't write off those that had a concern as irrational or color blind.  That's all I'm going to say because we've discussed this to death.

Now that I have that say, I am looking forward to the catalog.  I am also looking forward to a better year for Lionel.  I believe that they will overcome some of the issues, whether perceived or real, from last year and have a great selection for us to purchase.  The rumor that I have heard makes me excited for a starter set for the first time...probably ever.  While I am definitely not in for a big scales engine, although you never say never, I am looking forward to the catalog to see if there are any sleeper hits like the Santa Shay I purchased.  I am also always open for more PE scale cars.

seems to me that getting the color right--given all the information out there and in some cases having made the same model with the right color before---is the easy part---if the manufacturers had a quality control person who was a meticulous, really knew trains and the customer this could never happen

No wonder that there isn't any new tooling based on some of the comments above and on other posts.

I realize that $1,000.00+ per engine is expensive.  Maybe the middleman should be cut out on some new releases.  How long can the same engines continue to be offered each year.  Most members already have them.

Sunset 3rd rail continues to offer new steam engines  (new tooling) but at a firm price of $1499.00 or higher and almost always sell out.  A well detailed engine is a work of art

This is worry for train manufacturers.  Why are dyes/molds so expensive

Would it cost less to produce a steam engine in plastic?  Almost all diesels are plastic and continue to sell.

I realize that the aging of members has something to do with it (and therefore part of the problem).

Just my .02 cents.  Keep on truckin!

daylight posted:

This is worry for train manufacturers.  Why are dyes/molds so expensive

Would it cost less to produce a steam engine in plastic?  Almost all diesels are plastic and continue to sell.

 

Tooling is one of the most expensive parts of the manufacturing process, also steam locomotives use many more mechanical parts and require much more assembly work (labor) than diesels.  Plus the more free-standing add on details vs. cast in, the higher the costs.

Plastic vs. diecast steam has been pretty much beaten to death on the forum.  The general consensus is folks prefer brass or die cast metal bodied steam locomotives.

Rusty

Has anyone herd any rumors as to what might be in the catalog?

Terrance posted:

Has anyone herd any rumors as to what might be in the catalog?

Yes.  I've heard rumors but won't discuss them because they are just that, rumors.  Even though I consider them from a reliable source.

This is always an exciting time and I enjoy the anticipation!

One more week!

Peter

I heard the catalog is being printed in black & white to keep everyone guessing!  

Starter set? Hmm...

Hope it's conventional or Lion Chief 2.0.  

Putnam Division posted:

This is always an exciting time and I enjoy the anticipation!

One more week!

Peter

Like Peter.  Always an exciting anticipation.  Hopefully, not too much for me.  I have a decent amount of Pre-Orders coming down the pike for the next few months.  Hopefully done with UP Challenger and PE scale Add-On Passenger.  Now if I am lucky, the VL engine announced will not be something I have to have.  7 more days....

MartyE posted:

Landsteiner posted:

Important to distinguish that some of the problems (perhaps most) are real (mechanical failures; clearcut discrepancies of color) and some reflect the (sometimes unreasonable) expectations of hobbyists.  The latter examples includes the recent insistence that "my view of what stainless steel should look like is right and Lionel's approach is wrong" and "my view of what shade of red is appropriate for the N&W J is different from photos that Lionel used."  The former are real problems that everyone can agree on (mechanical failure) and the latter are more matters of opinion (or user error/irrationality).

Sorry I just can't let this one pass without comment.  While there can be some opinion of color shades that are slightly off, the color of a lot of Lionel product has been inconsistent and in the case of the J incorrect.  I'm a big Lionel fan but there was a definite issue with the stripe.  Please don't write off those that had a concern as irrational or color blind.  That's all I'm going to say because we've discussed this to death.

Now that I have that say, I am looking forward to the catalog.  I am also looking forward to a better year for Lionel.  I believe that they will overcome some of the issues, whether perceived or real, from last year and have a great selection for us to purchase.  The rumor that I have heard makes me excited for a starter set for the first time...probably ever.  While I am definitely not in for a big scales engine, although you never say never, I am looking forward to the catalog to see if there are any sleeper hits like the Santa Shay I purchased.  I am also always open for more PE scale cars.

Agreed, definitely looking forward to the catalog as well Marty. I do hope that color issues are a thing of the past, and I do hope that there is a bunch of stuff that satisfies our hunger for trains. I myself don't subscribe to rumors and hardly hear any of them unless someone pops it here. See what comes.

I want some scale Tier IV GEVOs and some more modern rolling stock. 

Scale modern Amtrak equipment would be great too (P42s, Superliners, Amfleets, Viewliners)

Hey DAVESLIE - that’s perfect 👍🏼😊

Some of my favorite Lionel Catalogs are the mid/late 50’s b&w pulp accessory catalogs that were packed in the sets - a lot left to the imagination - but always awesome trains 

Thanks

I pre-ordered the catalog from Mr. Muffin with expected delivery on 1/20.

If by chance it arrives earlier than that date, I will entertain any questions regarding the contents of the catalog. Answers to these question will be sent via email at the nominal cost of $100.00 per question answered. Payment through Paypal friends & family.

Thank you & have a nice day.

(Heck, I need to raise money somehow to pay for this stuff)  

I’m still waiting for my vision line Thomas the tank engine!!! One of these years it will happen! Maybe this year....

I’d buy a New York Central set with O-27 passenger cars and a LionChief Plus 2.0 #221. The tooling was hardly used at all...

Jon

A NYC Dreyfus Hudson, Commodore Vanderbilt,  J1e, or L2a would be nice. I also would not mind B&M 3713 or a B&M Berkshire. I also kind of regret passing on the Heavy Mikados a few years ago, and based on a previous post I think maybe.... Knowing my luck, all these things will be cataloged at once, and I'll get overwhelmed by the choices and not order anything.

Is it just me, or should the Vision Line and brass hybrid lines merge into one? That way, Vision Line models could fill their original purpose by being brass: never-before done, unique models. 

And please let the force couple from the VL Niagara find its way into the catalog again! Amazing feature that makes quite difference, and always useful, unlike multiple smoke units (as cool as they are).

I say keep brass and vision separate. Brass is all about the detail and vision is about features. For some of the features you have to sacrifice detail/ scale fidelity. 

KOOLjock1 posted:

I’d buy a New York Central set with O-27 passenger cars and a LionChief Plus 2.0 #221. The tooling was hardly used at all...

Jon

a big wish for me as well as a torpedo engine and baby turbine

A Lackawanna Pocono is my wish.....wasn't into O Scale until a couple years ago so I missed out on the weaver model.  

I am concerned that they will duplicate GP7 and GP9 diesel loco less commonly produced railroad schemes that 3rd Rail might also produce, such as the Grand Trunk Western.

I would also be interested in a re-release of the Dreyfus Hudson (1938 please) IF the matching cars are also announced. I have two passenger diesel streamliners (Lionel and 3rd Rail) with no matching cars to pull.

Harry's Trains posted:

A NYC Dreyfus Hudson, Commodore Vanderbilt,  J1e, or L2a would be nice. I also would not mind B&M 3713 or a B&M Berkshire. I also kind of regret passing on the Heavy Mikados a few years ago, and based on a previous post I think maybe.... Knowing my luck, all these things will be cataloged at once, and I'll get overwhelmed by the choices and not order anything.

Is it just me, or should the Vision Line and brass hybrid lines merge into one? That way, Vision Line models could fill their original purpose by being brass: never-before done, unique models. 

And please let the force couple from the VL Niagara find its way into the catalog again! Amazing feature that makes quite difference, and always useful, unlike multiple smoke units (as cool as they are).

Hello Harry. The heavy Mikes are great. Forum sponsor Nicholas Smith has almost all of them still in stock. Click on their clearance/special page. Good price. I have the NKP version and really like it. 

BTW, I’m pulling for a Dreyfus as well. 

Dreyfus Hudson in both standard and pt tender versions; water scoop effect, & a scale 20th century limited in the 2020 signature catalog.... kind of makes sense. 

In 2008 they tried to remake the Dreyfuss in legacy but canceled it for some reason...

I am also waiting to see what details Derek gets out of Ryan.  Derek said the podcast is very long so I will find the time to work on something while listening.  While the catalog is always fun, Derek does get some information that isn't always in the catalog.

An L70 LRT in Houston METRO.  But I think MTH has the Siemens contract.  CAF might be possible, but like METRO and Amtrak Viewliners, it would be years late.

daylight posted:

Sunset 3rd rail continues to offer new steam engines  (new tooling) but at a firm price of $1499.00 or higher and almost always sell out.  A well detailed engine is a work of art

 

Its my understanding that brass models don't have "tooling" in the normal sense like diecast locomotives do so the tooling cost question isn't a factor. I think the higher cost of brass comes from labor costs but someone else with more experience would need to chime in.

I will be looking for fallen flag rolling stock from lesser popular southern railroads; e.g., NC&StL, Clinchfield, Central of Georgia, Georgia Railroad, etc.

I do have two Clinchfield PS-2 covered hoppers. So, I might get lucky again.

I would like to see the Dreyfus Hudson as well myself. I would buy as many versions of it I could as that is probably my most sought after engine. I have held fast on not buying any of the TMCC versions of have seen floating out on the web or in stores. I figured that they would have to make them at some point in time. As far as features, I just hope that they make it as correctly as possible. I know I should say right, but I don't even know what they right one would look like. Let's just hope they get it to where the head nods approve and without many head shakers.

As far as what else. That really begs questions. If the Dreyfus is there, I doubt much else would grab my attention. If it's not, and there are no PRR or NYC steam, I will probably have a light purchase if nothing else is there other than stuff I missed in the Legacy versions already offered, Y6B mainly.

justin p posted:

In 2008 they tried to remake the Dreyfuss in legacy but canceled it for some reason...

Let's hope they have better luck this time around.

A smart idea would be to take the Old lionel Dreyfuss from 1993(Smithsonian version) and put new sounds into it.

justin p posted:

A smart idea would be to take the Old lionel Dreyfuss from 1993(Smithsonian version) and put new sounds into it.

Not so smart actually. They were not made very well. They were somewhat unique for their time with a lot of detail but they are very fragile. Nothing like 3rd Rails brass version. The CCII engine is very solid. Give it 4 chuffs and it would be near the equal of a Legacy engine. 

That whistle steam will cost you a grand more than the CCII engine. 

Pete

Norton posted:

justin p posted:

A smart idea would be to take the Old lionel Dreyfuss from 1993(Smithsonian version) and put new sounds into it.

Not so smart actually. They were not made very well. They were somewhat unique for their time with a lot of detail but they are very fragile. Nothing like 3rd Rails brass version. The CCII engine is very solid. Give it 4 chuffs and it would be near the equal of a Legacy engine. 

That whistle steam will cost you a grand more than the CCII engine. 

Pete

Sounds like the Dreyfuss is the choice by popularity.  I'm a little surprised since MTH did one a while ago.  That is exactly why Lionel will do the Dreyfuss.  I for one have struggled with the MTH Premier.  I would gladly do a fire sale on it if Lionel were to release one in VL.

"So let it be written, so let it be done!"

Next week, and it’s not “Fake News”! 

Siemens Charger, Union Pacific VisionLine and VisionLine freight would be tops on my wishlist.

Charlienassau posted:

Next week, and it’s not “Fake News”! 

And before the day is out, or by Tuesday, folks will be wondering what's going to be in the next catalog...

Rusty

Charlienassau posted:

Next week, and it’s not “Fake News”! 

Interesting choice of words there "newsboy"!

Stu

NOT LionelLLC posted:

Charlienassau posted:

Next week, and it’s not “Fake News”! 

Interesting choice of words there "newsboy"!

Stu

You guys acting like a dog running around a fire hydrant!

Jim

Yes more hints please!!

Kinda hope it is a dreyfuss hudson so I won't be tempted to spend big bucks lol.  About the only thing that would get my wallet open is a scale AA set of DL&W F's, E's, or scale DL&W steam that is accurate to what was actually owned by the railroad..... Guessing I'm probably safe there.  I am interested to see what LC2.0 products come out though..... Could spring for something neat in that line.  

Nothing can beat the GGD/3rd rail Dreyfus 1938 20 Century with the 12 passenger cars —

More hints

Hoping to see a Yellow Belly with all the trimmings!!

Hint

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

Too obvious.  Did not think it would be an Acela👍

Is it the new Acela being made

Any Western Maryland items?

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

Too obvious.  Did not think it would be an Acela👍

Haha.  Maybe off by a couple decades but on the right trak.    

justin p posted:

Is it the new Acela being made

That would be awesome !

Charlie,

It would be really cool if you would do a special run of Lionel LIRR GP38s...just sayin.....

Thanks,

Sunrise

VistaDomeScott posted:

justin p posted:

Is it the new Acela being made

That would be awesome !

Doubtful. I think Lionel would have a hard time selling people a train nobody has seen in person yet. Im aware one prototype has already been built, but people generally line to buy what they've seen in real life. 

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

 

Maybe this is on the right trak ?

ed h posted:

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

 

Maybe this is on the right trak ?

This is probably the front of the catalog.

They have not made much of the classic 1960's and 1970's SOO LINE diesels and cars, so there could be a large amount coming.

Andrew

I just noticed that the ad at the top of the forum for Lionel's catalog has changed from 2019v2 to 2020. 

I'd like to see some LC+ 2.0 LM offerings.  I'm all in for a LM Pennsy T1

Norton posted:

Not so smart actually. They were not made very well. They were somewhat unique for their time with a lot of detail but they are very fragile. Nothing like 3rd Rails brass version. The CCII engine is very solid. Give it 4 chuffs and it would be near the equal of a Legacy engine. 

That whistle steam will cost you a grand more than the CCII engine. 

Pete

OK, I need to buy a vowel.  The CCII engine was the Empire State Express.

Is that essentially the same as the Dreyfuss?  To me they look distinctly different.

Not that I'm rooting against it for you guys who would like it, but the Dreyfuss was always one of my least favorite engines due to the ridge down the middle of the boiler front.  (I don't pretend to be a prototype expert, so I'm not going to try to guess the right name for that feature) 

Point is, I've got all the CCII engines, and I'd remember if a Dreyfuss was one of them.  Pretty sure it was not!

-Dave

Dave, no, you are correct. I think Norton was just a bit confused on the CC2 offerings. The Dreyfus in question is/was not a CC2 offering, nor has it been released since Legacy has been available, thus, this could be a good candidate for a new release.

In Nortons response he was responding to someone who posted the even older Dreyfus made by a company for Lionel, both in 2 rail and 3 rail. However, like Norton said, it is a bit dated now and again, maybe a good candidate for Lionel to manufacture.

My hope is that if the Dreyfus Hudson is released, it matches the prior Lionel Dreyfus in terms of color. Grey is a really difficult color to match especially over a period of almost 20 years!

Someone posted earlier about the Sunset 3rd Rail offering, but the engine cannot  pull the 12 car consist, the Lionel (and MTH could). Again however, if the colors don't match (which they don't) it really is up to the manufacture to make whole train at the same time.

Charlie

I would like to see updates/Vision versions of the Yellow Belly, Commodore Vanderbilt (what color this time ?), and the Dreyfuss Hudson.

Now that Lionel has shrunk down the electronics to fit in HO, how about a Vision version of the 2-4-2 motorized units?

2012ford posted:

New legacy diesels wish they where diecast metal again.

I like the idea, but don’t trust the final product long term....zinc pest....rather be cast in something that doesn’t eat its self away. I’m worried about the first generation of Vision Diesels....

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

 

Looks like Boston & Maine colors to me.

I was gonna say Montana Rail Link...

Jon

It’s part of the circle L logo.

VistaDomeScott posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

Too obvious.  Did not think it would be an Acela👍

Haha.  Maybe off by a couple decades but on the right trak.    

Hasn't Ryan already said (in his Toy Train Museum speech last year) that Lionel was working on a re-issue of the current Acela before the prototype's retirement, which I think is scheduled for later this year? As they are recycling tooling and the Acela tooling was elaborate and no doubt costly to produce, I'd have thought they'd want to make use of it again. 

A Legacy Acela was cataloged several years ago - without the tilt function or IR connectors for the door mechanisms - but never made. 

I know that the mere mention of Acela is a red rag to many of us but the passenger car detail was the finest Lionel has produced.

I believe the Acela has been bounced around a bunch of times on the Ryan & Dave show as well as asked a bunch of times when Ryan has been about. I'm not sure if Dave said he would be dreading it if it came back around or if I heard him incorrectly during one of the the Ryan and Dave shows. See what will come, not too much longer to wait.

Id rather see the Amtrak Cascades Talgo train than another Acela. The were going to offer that years ago with the same features as the Acela does today, but cancelled the project. 

Maxrailroad posted:

@VistaDomeScott, Your hint reminds me of this...

Id be all in for a set of patched Amtrak E Units! A boy can dream

I am forbidden from CONFIRMING or denying this.  ;-)

VistaDomeScott posted:

Maxrailroad posted:

@VistaDomeScott, Your hint reminds me of this...

Id be all in for a set of patched Amtrak E Units! A boy can dream

I am forbidden from CONFIRMING or denying this.  ;-)

Good to hear  

Sunrise Special posted:

Charlie,

It would be really cool if you would do a special run of Lionel LIRR GP38s...just sayin.....

Thanks,

Sunrise

 

Yes please!!!

I remember Dave from Lionel mentioning that they’re working on reissuing the Legacy NYC Subway sets. Really hoping to see those soon!

Maxrailroad posted:

VistaDomeScott posted:

Maxrailroad posted:

@VistaDomeScott, Your hint reminds me of this...

Id be all in for a set of patched Amtrak E Units! A boy can dream

I am forbidden from CONFIRMING or denying this.  ;-)

Good to hear  

Hmmm, well if E8's DO happen to be in the catalog.....A nice DL&W phoebe snow set of cars with matching A units would be perfect.

Keep the hints coming!

There has been quite a few hints, you just need to know where to look.

More Halloween, please.  I have a train room full of Halloween items (the Lionel Halloween locs with Legacy are incredible), but more COULD be better.  

We need () more arcane Southern Pacific locs.  

And, of course, maybe Lionel worked out a licensing deal on SPY v. SPY.  My money is on the table for any higher-end "SPY" product.  

A black SP GS4 — 

20centuryhudson posted:

A black SP GS4 — 

I like it.  A top-quality Legacy black GS-4 would be great.

But.

A well-done & top-end LionChief black GS-4 would be remarkable.  My wallet is ready....

MartyE posted:

There has been quite a few hints, you just need to know where to look.

I found it easier last time when someone simply posted a link to the dude with the bootleg catalog on YouTube. 

PSU1980 posted:

I am still waiting for the Milk cars I ordered 3 years ago from one of the TCA Divisions, I am beginning to think they will arrive when I dead. Every few months we get an email saying they are coming, I don't  believe that story anymore.

 

 

Dats cause you've been "milked" !

VistaDomeScott posted:

Hint

 

Oh.... possibly B&M McGinnis schemes?

I think the whole mike car thing has been made pretty clear directly from Lionel. While the mike cars were very highly accurate models, the intention was to move production away from China. This was one product that got caught in the move, there might be more, I don't know.  According to Ryan (maybe Dave) the tooling was the hold-up and still is.

The last thing I remember Ryan stating was that for the project to move forward, new (read expensive) tooling was going to be needed, and that was not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe moving from China is not as easy as some would have us think.

My guess is that Lionel really tried and wanted to use the most excellent tooling already available and held off on making new products until all avenues to get the old tooling back in use, were exhausted.

As much as it might hurt, maybe it's time to just cancel the car.

Charlie

Maybe GReat Northern big sky blue colors?

20centuryhudson posted:

Maybe GReat Northern big sky blue colors?

A full dome with sounds in sky blue would be great!

I was thinking Montana Rail link. 

I’m thinking the auto train might be in this catalog. They had an auto train dome camera car in the 2019 V2. The correct engines & auto racks would require new/ modified tooling. This would be a very unique offering. 

Charlie posted:

I think the whole mike car thing has been made pretty clear directly from Lionel. While the mike cars were very highly accurate models, the intention was to move production away from China. This was one product that got caught in the move, there might be more, I don't know.  According to Ryan (maybe Dave) the tooling was the hold-up and still is.

The last thing I remember Ryan stating was that for the project to move forward, new (read expensive) tooling was going to be needed, and that was not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe moving from China is not as easy as some would have us think.

My guess is that Lionel really tried and wanted to use the most excellent tooling already available and held off on making new products until all avenues to get the old tooling back in use, were exhausted.

As much as it might hurt, maybe it's time to just cancel the car.

Charlie

I don't have any particular inside information, but I suspect the milk car situation may (hopefully) be close to being resolved.

The reason I suggest that is that one of the train clubs of which I order their fund-raising cars just announced a milk car as their offering for this year.  Now that may mean still a year out for delivery (not uncommon for special run cars), but I sort of doubt they would have arranged with Lionel to offer a milk car if the situation had no hope.  (and I also doubt Lionel would have even considered letting them offer it, if there was no hope of doing the car in the not too distant future - that would do no one any good)

If that is correct, it would not be shocking to see some milk cars in the catalog.

-Dave

Dave45681 posted:

Charlie posted:

I think the whole mike car thing has been made pretty clear directly from Lionel. While the mike cars were very highly accurate models, the intention was to move production away from China. This was one product that got caught in the move, there might be more, I don't know.  According to Ryan (maybe Dave) the tooling was the hold-up and still is.

The last thing I remember Ryan stating was that for the project to move forward, new (read expensive) tooling was going to be needed, and that was not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe moving from China is not as easy as some would have us think.

My guess is that Lionel really tried and wanted to use the most excellent tooling already available and held off on making new products until all avenues to get the old tooling back in use, were exhausted.

As much as it might hurt, maybe it's time to just cancel the car.

Charlie

I don't have any particular inside information, but I suspect the milk car situation may (hopefully) be close to being resolved.

The reason I suggest that is that one of the train clubs of which I order their fund-raising cars just announced a milk car as their offering for this year.  Now that may mean still a year out for delivery (not uncommon for special run cars), but I sort of doubt they would have arranged with Lionel to offer a milk car if the situation had no hope.  (and I also doubt Lionel would have even considered letting them offer it, if there was no hope of doing the car in the not too distant future - that would do no one any good)

If that is correct, it would not be shocking to see some milk cars in the catalog.

-Dave

When we see the catalog on Monday, we'll all know if there's a future for Milk Reefers.  The number of Milk Reefers in the 2020 catalog (or lack thereof) will immediately tell you if the Milk Reefers are a go or if they're a no-go.

Seriously, in 4 days, it will be painfully obvious.

Stu

Good information, if the Milk car can get done with the original tooling that will be very much welcome news. FYI, this Milk Car tooling was every bit a JLC/Vision level piece of rolling stock if there was such a category. When I see P48 guys (not just two rail guys) modifying the various rolling stock that started life as a Lionel product, I think that speaks volumes as to fidelity accuracy of the car.

Charlie

I love the milk cars and have several. I think they're the most detailed rolling stock Lionel has ever made. Personally, I can live without the interior tanks and removable roof especially to shave a few bucks off the price but I love those cars! 

Good point Will, I forgot about the detailed interior. Not sure I ever took the roof off of mine after the initial purchase.

Charlie

20centuryhudson posted:

A black SP GS4 — 

Just this one ?  Seems like these days when Lionel does a loco they offer in numerous flavors, just like Baskin Robbins ice cream.

If more milk cars are going to be offered I would not be surprised if see them equipped with freight sounds or even a vision line version similar to the pfe reefer offerings of loading and off loading the milk. 

FMC posted:

If more milk cars are going to be offered I would not be surprised if see them equipped with freight sounds or even a vision line version similar to the pfe reefer offerings of loading and off loading the milk. 

I'd definitely buy a sound equipped milk car! 

falconservice posted:

I am concerned that they will duplicate GP7 and GP9 diesel loco less commonly produced railroad schemes that 3rd Rail might also produce, such as the Grand Trunk Western.

I talked with Scott Mann recently and there are not near enough orders for the GTW GP9. I'm hoping Lionel steps up.

richtrow posted:

falconservice posted:

I am concerned that they will duplicate GP7 and GP9 diesel loco less commonly produced railroad schemes that 3rd Rail might also produce, such as the Grand Trunk Western.

I talked with Scott Mann recently and there are not near enough orders for the GTW GP9. I'm hoping Lionel steps up.

With BTO then it seems to be a no brainer that Lionel would also pass on this offering.

Catalogs are starting to arrive at dealers today.

MartyE posted:   With BTO then it seems to be a no brainer that Lionel would also pass on this offering.

Shhhhhhh!!  
They'll hear you!!

They might hear me but no one listens to me.  LOL!

It's only the cover. It's not like they leaked any items from the catalog.

Wow, that’s quite a neat picture NVISICH, wondering if the year, 2020 is somewhere on the front cover? I see the 120 years, which is Fantastic, it’s truly a Legendary Company and there Legacy will hopefully go on for many more Decades and possibly Centuries, thank you for the picture. The Excitement is building up, I can’t wait to sit back in my recliner and read this new catalog. Happy Railroading 

The catalog is starting to show up on eBay. I’m hoping I get one before Monday, haha! 😂

Not crazy about the cover art, but excited to see what's inside!

MartyE posted:

richtrow posted:

falconservice posted:

I am concerned that they will duplicate GP7 and GP9 diesel loco less commonly produced railroad schemes that 3rd Rail might also produce, such as the Grand Trunk Western.

I talked with Scott Mann recently and there are not near enough orders for the GTW GP9. I'm hoping Lionel steps up.

With BTO then it seems to be a no brainer that Lionel would also pass on this offering.

Marty,

Seems Lionel is willing to do special paint jobs for runs of as low as 25, though if the details are really horrendous I could see them skipping.

20centuryhudson posted:

A black SP GS4 — 

rthomps posted:

20centuryhudson posted:

A black SP GS4 — 

I like it.  A top-quality Legacy black GS-4 would be great.

But.

A well-done & top-end LionChief black GS-4 would be remarkable.  My wallet is ready....