New Lionel E8 problems

Stalling video....note that the throttle is kept constant as the train suddenly slows down due to the rear unit stopping. Then I jiggle it and read unit comes back on (cab light goes off).

Background static. Sounds like an old 33 1/3 Lp that was played too many times.

I have the same static issue.  I'll test for the whistle/stopping problem and report back later.

Thanks Mike H. Yeah I’m pretty sure the static issue can’t just be my layout, and the one I returned had that same static.

Update! When I tested the rear unit running by itself I had it running forward cab pointed ahead. But the problem is happening when it is running forward with the cab pointing to the rear as the second unit so I tried running it by itself that way and sure enough activating the whistle or the crew talk, even though there is no sound without the front unit, caused the locomotive to stop!

Video

@JamesRx I could not duplicate your other issue.  Would you mind sending me an email (mine is in my profile).  I didn't see an address in your profile.

Totally reproducible..here’s a better one where I didn’t block the cab light coming on...

I have no idea if my issue is the same as your, i will copy my post.  For whatever reason my new E9 AA will not run well on my ZWL.  Runs great on my Z4000 and PW ZW.

I had the same issues sometimes I would hit the horn for the AA and one would stop but not the other.  No idea if you have another transformer, but worth a try.  Worked for me, no problems now, just can’t run it on two of my tracks.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...2#152899748986379832

Sounds like a bug in the new board design. We’re all beta testers now 😜. In all seriousness I have a custom run E9’s set that so far runs great. Other than in sequence control it sometimes says it’s stopped while still moving. Dave Olsen already said that was a software bug so no worries

Maybe @Dave Olson can comment and if he can recreate the issue

If it is a software bug, I am guessing to get it fixed it would have to back to Lionel if we wanted it fixed.

Waiting to hear what James is using for a transformer. The fact that the engine works with two sine wave transformers may provide a clue. I have E7s on order and assume they will be identical save the shells.

Pete

I’m using the Legacy system powered by a 180 watt brick.

Do you have another transformer to try to see if you have the same issues.  I have issues with the ZWL, but not a KW, PW ZW, or Z4000. No idea what the wave the brick puts out.

The brick is a pure sine wave like the postwar transformers and the Z-4000. I see a TPC there. It has a triac in it and that might make it more chopped, I would try using the 180 brick straight to confirm if it’s only liking a pure sine wave

FWIW - I am using a PH180 with Legacy (no TPC) and my E8's aren't doing it.

Dumb question but....how do I use a brick without a TPC? I set this up years ago so I could run an MTH engine and now it’s all I know!

@JamesRx posted:

Dumb question but....how do I use a brick without a TPC? I set this up years ago so I could run an MTH engine and now it’s all I know!

For command engines you can wire the brick right to the track. You only need a TPC for conventional trains.

Pete

I have the UP custom run version from Mr Muffins.  I am using a ZW-L.  I cannot replicate the problem you are having.  However, I have a problem with mine that may be an issue with just my engine.  I will describe my issue in a new thread.

We tested this morning and could not replicate the issue of one of the units stalling. I recommend doing a reset of both units and see if that resolves the issue. The reset procedure is in the manual.

As for the static at low volumes, that is normal. On older Legacy engines with the RCMC/RSL3, at low volume, you could hear faint beeping noises. That was caused by noise in the system of the commands constantly being sent back and forth. The mild background pops you hear in your E8 that has the new Legacy electronics is the same thing. With so much going on in the system, there's no way to avoid it. I recommend turning the volume up!

Hi Dave, I reset several times using the R button on the controller, but it did not help. As far as the static, I have your 2017 E8 and the 2019 PA sets And neither of those have any static sound whatsoever that I can hear any volume. Whereas with this new E8 the static is quite prominent. FYI so far there are 3 of us as far as I see On the form who are having some sort of issue with these new E8 units Fighting each other on the track either at speed or when coming to a stop. by fighting I mean they are not running at the same speed and one locomotive is trying to drag the other.  I first noticed the problem when I would bring the train to a stop when I heard the wheels of the front unit still spinning after the train had stopped. But now it sometimes happens at speed even without blowing the whistle. If it were just me having a problem I would guess it’s something about my system although my set up is very simple. But now there are at least three people having this problem.

This is a video of the original issue which happens when you throttle down to zero to get a rolling stop...the front unit is still going after the rear unit has stopped....

James have you tried eliminating the TPC yet? It appears everyone reporting problems is using a Lionel programable power supply, either TPC or ZWL.

Pete

Pete I literally do not know how to hook up a brick to the track without the TPC! I’m on my way to work now but when I get home tonight I will look into it. Any tips? All I have is a brick and legacy no transformer

@Dave Olson posted:

As for the static at low volumes, that is normal. On older Legacy engines with the RCMC/RSL3, at low volume, you could hear faint beeping noises. That was caused by noise in the system of the commands constantly being sent back and forth. The mild background pops you hear in your E8 that has the new Legacy electronics is the same thing. With so much going on in the system, there's no way to avoid it. I recommend turning the volume up!

Hi Dave - Do you anticipate the static/beeping/popping issue with any steam locomotives that will be coming out in the near future?  Thanks.

@Phoebe Snow Route posted:

Hi Dave - Do you anticipate the static/beeping issue with any steam locomotives that will be coming out in the near future?  Thanks.

If the popping and clicking is part of the new normal, there are going to be some very unhappy customers soon.  I have 8 Legacy engines from 2018-2020 catalogs and NONE of them sound like this.

@Dave Olson posted:

We tested this morning and could not replicate the issue of one of the units stalling. I recommend doing a reset of both units and see if that resolves the issue. The reset procedure is in the manual.

The problem I am reporting on the thread "2020 Lionel E9 Sync Problem" is not corrected by reset.  My problem only occurs when momentum is below 6 or if the Brake button is used to slow the train.  My issue is the A unit with sound.

@MikeH posted:

If the popping and clicking is part of the new normal, there are going to be some very unhappy customers soon.  I have 8 Legacy engines from 2018-2020 catalogs and NONE of them sound like this.

It is a very faint sound at the lowest volume levels. Seriously nothing to panic about. Older electronics have feedback. Newer electronics have feedback.

@JFC454 posted:

The problem I am reporting on the thread "2020 Lionel E9 Sync Problem" is not corrected by reset.  My problem only occurs when momentum is below 6 or if the Brake button is used to slow the train.  My issue is the A unit with sound.

We saw that thread and tested at all the various momentum levels and also could not reproduce any issues. I can't solve what I can't reproduce, so I would recommend calling in and sending in for us to look at them.

Ok thanks Dave. I emailed TalkToUs yesterday for an RA.

@JamesRx posted:

I’m using the Legacy system powered by a 180 watt brick.

If you wanted to bypass the box on the left, remove the white wire shown in the picture.  It should have spade connectors on the end.  Connect those ends to a terminal block along with your Fastrack wires.

Do these have Odyssey switches?  Are they both “on”. I didn’t see it mentioned although it might have been.

Not too clear from the video, but at appears that you are running this as Engine 1, which is the default engine number.

Might not make a difference, but have you tried re-programming it to a different, unused engine # and setting it up as a Legacy engine ?

@Dave Olson posted:

We tested this morning and could not replicate the issue of one of the units stalling. I recommend doing a reset of both units and see if that resolves the issue. The reset procedure is in the manual.

I check the owner's manual for these new E8/E9 and noticed that the reset instructions have changed.  If I follow exactly what is now on page 33, the engines are rendered completely unresponsive.  If I leave out step 6 (Press and hold the Reset button until the ding) which is a new step, and use the old steps which would require after pressing SET the power be turned off for 10 seconds and then move the switch to Run, the engines are restore to operating conditions.  The problems I have with them are still there, but they at least run.  So, either I have a real problem with the boards or the new instructions for reset are wrong.

@MartyE posted:

Do these have Odyssey switches?  Are they both “on”. I didn’t see it mentioned although it might have been.

They do not have Odyssey switches.

@JFC454 posted:

They do not have Odyssey switches.

Thanks. I was unsure.

@JamesRx posted:

Hi Dave, I reset several times using the R button on the controller, but it did not help.

I think what Dave means by reset, is to reset the engines to factory default settings.  There are new instructions for how to do that on page 33 of the manual.  Having said that, if I follow those instructions the engines become unresponsive to all commands.  To get them running again, I had to change Step 6 (Press and hold the Reset or 0 button until the ding) with the step that use to follow pressing SET which was turning off the power for 10 seconds before moving the switch to Run.  Before sending them back you might try resetting to the factory default settings.

@JFC454 posted:

I check the owner's manual for these new E8/E9 and noticed that the reset instructions have changed.  If I follow exactly what is now on page 33, the engines are rendered completely unresponsive.  If I leave out step 6 (Press and hold the Reset button until the ding) which is a new step, and use the old steps which would require after pressing SET the power be turned off for 10 seconds and then move the switch to Run, the engines are restore to operating conditions.  The problems I have with them are still there, but they at least run.  So, either I have a real problem with the boards or the new instructions for reset are wrong.

The reset instructions are not wrong. Make sure after the bell ding, you put the switch back to RUN.

I can confirm what Dave says.Following the instruction manual dated July 20 2020, I reset my units and no issues. After the bell "ding" switch back to Run, and away we go.

I also don't get the slow down/fighting each other that the op has.

@Dave Olson posted:

The reset instructions are not wrong. Make sure after the bell ding, you put the switch back to RUN.

Dave,

I did exactly what the directions say, including waiting for the bell ding.  Horn blows and engine comes alive when SET is pushed.  Hold the Reset (0) until the ding, move the switch to run, engine remains powered (sounds and lights) but will not respond to any command from the remote.  If I turn the power off and then back on the engine will not start up using the engine number.

Changed to a different base, different ZW-L, different Cab2, and different layout.  Results are the same.  Pressing the Reset (0) button and waiting for the ding before sliding the switch to run results in engines that will not respond to any command.  I have no problem changing the engine number, but it doesn't use the Reset (0) step.  Obviously these engines have some serious problems and will have to go back to be looked at.

Have you tried to give each unit it's own ID and build/run it as a train instead of a single engine?

@BNSF-Matt posted:

Have you tried to give each unit it's own ID and build/run it as a train instead of a single engine?

Yes.  No effect.  I really think my issue is a problem with my particular set of engines and will have to be sent back to correct just as the OP is doing.

@Dave Olson posted:

The reset instructions are not wrong. Make sure after the bell ding, you put the switch back to RUN.

Well, slightly wrong, maybe.  The very last sentence says "Be sure to use the ID# entered in Step 4".  Actually, on my engines the reset changes the ID# back to #1.  That is why the engines wouldn't respond since I was using the ID# I had entered in Step 4.  Once I address engine #1, they ran.  So, I can reset the engines, but it didn't cure the problem I see with my engines so they will still need to  go back.  Thank you for taking the time to help us.

@zhubl posted:

"Sounds like a bug in the new board design. We’re all beta testers now 😜." "Other than in sequence control it sometimes says it’s stopped while still moving. Dave Olsen already said that was a software bug so no worries."

Another software issue?

Dave I executed the reset procedure from page 33 of the manual. No change. The trailing unit still slows down or even stops before the lead unit does. Static sound still loud. And Rule 17 not operating either. Keep in mind this is the second model I’ve had—the first one I received from my dealer, which I returned for this replacement, had the exact same problem. Here’s a new video where I demonstrate the issue by blowing the horn, but the problem also happens randomly without having blown the horn as well.

By the way....I pretty much buy every Lionel Legacy New York Central E unit that comes out and this is the BEST they’ve done. The sounds, the more realistic crew talk, the FIVE different horns, the cigar band paint scheme—all fantastic. It’s just a shame the two units don’t run together! I know many hobbyists prefer that for almost $1000 they get 2 powered units, but I almost wish the second unit was non-powered....that would have avoided all the problems with this set. Not the first time by the way...the 2019 PA set also has issues with syncing the 2 powered units.

Dave, I have a new E9  set and have a similar problem.  When I run it on a track controlled by a ZWL it will react to a command to another legacy engine.  It will not react to another command when on tracks powered by a Z4000, KW or a PW ZW.  Here is a video of what happens.  Before this video I did the reset and it put this set back to engine #1.  You can see that the lead unit will stop when I command another engine to stop.  In this case the other engine is not even powered up and none of my other transformers are on.  I can repeat this on the two tracks powered by my ZWL.  I kept the engines apart so you can see it happen.  In an earlier reply I linked my original post about theses issues.  My lead engine, the one with sound, is the one that has the problems with the ZWL.

Now, I don’t plan on returning these, as I will just run these on tracks not powered by a ZWL.  Not ideal, but it is ok for me.  If Lionel/Dave found a 100% fix and could reproduce the issues some of us are having then I would, but for now, no.  Waiting for the B unit next.  

To test these on another layout that is powered with a ZWL, I would go to someone’s house, after COVID,  to see if the problems can be duplicated.

Tony

Just saw this topic and I had the same problem with mine. Just decided to send it back to my dealer so it can be sent to Lionel for them to look at it and hopefully fix it. I would imagine it’s a signal issue for one of the units to just randomly stop while the other keeps moving.

I hope that the E7's that are slated to be shipping next month won't have the same problem.  I'm almost at my breaking point with this stuff.

@LionelLegend posted:

Just saw this topic and I had the same problem with mine. Just decided to send it back to my dealer so it can be sent to Lionel for them to look at it and hopefully fix it. I would imagine it’s a signal issue for one of the units to just randomly stop while the other keeps moving.

Matt
What type of transformer were you using?

Tony

@Tony H posted:

Matt
What type of transformer were you using?

Tony

Tony

I was using a CW-80 transformer. It works for all of my other legacy engines.

For those people who can cause the stalling in a predictable way as opposed to random occurrence, if you hold your hand above the engine when you blow the horn or whatever causes the problem, does the engine still stall?  This Christmas I had problem with 2 of 11 American Flyer engines randomly stalling due to a ground problem.  The 2 would run fine if I held my hand over the engine while it was running.

Does the CW80 have the same type of “wave” output as the ZWL?

@JFC454 posted:

For those people who can cause the stalling in a predictable way as opposed to random occurrence, if you hold your hand above the engine when you blow the horn or whatever causes the problem, does the engine still stall?  This Christmas I had problem with 2 of 11 American Flyer engines randomly stalling due to a ground problem.  The 2 would run fine if I held my hand over the engine while it was running.

I will be honest, i have not tried that, as it only happens on the loops controlled by the ZWL, none of the others.  Those two loops are the ones closest to the wall, with 4 foot bench work, around the room layout.  I do have a section that is somewhat open, I might try that.

@Tony H posted:

Does the CW80 have the same type of “wave” output as the ZWL?

Yes it does they both have a modified sine wave.

Ok so since I still haven’t heard back from Lionel, I want to act on the theory that my use of a TPC may be involved in causing the problem. But I need your help. To operate with just the Legacy 990 and a 180 brick I need what? A terminal block? And if so, how do I correctly connect the 7 wires I now have attached to the TPC? See photo...

And is this what I need to buy?

@JamesRx posted:

Ok so since I still haven’t heard back from Lionel, I want to act on the theory that my use of a TPC may be involved in causing the problem. But I need your help. To operate with just the Legacy 990 and a 180 brick I need what? A terminal block? And if so, how do I correctly connect the 7 wires I now have attached to the TPC? See photo...

The wire on hot goes to the center rail, the wire on neut goes to outside rail. The wire from the Legacy Base goes to outside rail.

Pete

@JamesRx posted:

Ok so since I still haven’t heard back from Lionel

You need to call them, not email.  I called last week, got the RMA, and my set is on its way to Lionel.

@Norton posted:

The wire on hot goes to the center rail, the wire on neut goes to outside rail. The wire from the Legacy Base goes to outside rail.

Pete

What about the data and comm wires?

You don’t need those. All control is with the Cab2.

Pete

Have you tried running the engines using the LionChief app instead of the Cab2?

@Norton posted:

You don’t need those. All control is with the Cab2.

Pete

Ok thanks Pete

@JFC454 posted:

Have you tried running the engines using the LionChief app instead of the Cab2?

No, but I will try that tonight

@JFC454 posted:

Have you tried running the engines using the LionChief app instead of the Cab2?

I tried running mine with the LionChief app instead before I sent them to Lionel and one unit still stalled.

They are not on the same page!!!

Update....just before sending the set back to Lionel I tried out one of the suggestions posted here....I bypassed the TPC and connected brick and Legacy directly to track....problem still persists. The E8s are now on their way back to North Carolina.

I called Lionel and my request for an RA on the sound issue was denied.  Thankfully, my dealer accepted a return for refund.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Kinda bringing this topic back but I sent my E8 back to my dealer to get Lionel to fix it on January 9. I’ve never had warranty work done so how long does it usually take Lionel?

@LionelLegend posted:

Kinda bringing this topic back but I sent my E8 back to my dealer to get Lionel to fix it on January 9. I’ve never had warranty work done so how long does it usually take Lionel?

I sent mine back on Jan 11 and it came back on Feb 26.  They had it in house for 6 weeks, which is longer than normal.  On the repair details it was indicated that the units were shown to the engineering department, so maybe it took awhile to determine a solution.  They replaced all four motors and reprogrammed the driver boards.   It appears that solved the problem.  I didn’t ask them if there were fixes for Rule 17 not working on front headlight, the wrong dialog when using sequence control, and the strange “hee-haw” sound the is part of the sound file since all three of these seem to be part of the new board. They all occur on my ES44AC produced in 2020 that has the new board.

@JFC454 posted:

I sent mine back on Jan 11 and it came back on Feb 26.  They had it in house for 6 weeks, which is longer than normal.  On the repair details it was indicated that the units were shown to the engineering department, so maybe it took awhile to determine a solution.  They replaced all four motors and reprogrammed the driver boards.   It appears that solved the problem.  I didn’t ask them if there were fixes for Rule 17 not working on front headlight, the wrong dialog when using sequence control, and the strange “hee-haw” sound the is part of the sound file since all three of these seem to be part of the new board. They all occur on my ES44AC produced in 2020 that has the new board.

Thanks for the update. I’ll have to call my dealer to see if mine are in or not.

@JFC454 posted:

I sent mine back on Jan 11 and it came back on Feb 26.  They had it in house for 6 weeks, which is longer than normal.  On the repair details it was indicated that the units were shown to the engineering department, so maybe it took awhile to determine a solution.  They replaced all four motors and reprogrammed the driver boards.   It appears that solved the problem.  I didn’t ask them if there were fixes for Rule 17 not working on front headlight, the wrong dialog when using sequence control, and the strange “hee-haw” sound the is part of the sound file since all three of these seem to be part of the new board. They all occur on my ES44AC produced in 2020 that has the new board.

I also just received my set back from Lionel and am pleased to report the problem of the trailing unit slowing down or stopping has been fixed. The report says they “reprogrammed new boards.” I assume that means the boards in my set were defective. As with yours, mine still does not have a working Rule 17. I would say that they just forgot to put that Feature in the new boards but someone else here on the forum who has the same set as I do says that their Rule17 is working, so... but I can live without it. Just glad the set is back, unharmed and in working order!

With the Rule 17, when I first got my set the Rule 17 wasn't working on it but I eventually got it to work just by playing around with the Legacy Remote. I think it has something to do with holding down the Rule 17 key on the Legacy Remote. I got it to work on mine before I sent mine back to Lionel so when I get it back I'll try and see how I got mine to work and say how I did on this form.

I believe if you press and hold aux-1 the lighting menu will appear on the remote,you should see 2 icons for rule 17 on/off.

doug

The rule 17 keys gives you 3 options. Manual / Off / Auto. Pushing and holding the "on" button turns on the Auto function.

Since I was able to get mine to work my guess is that these engines weren’t programmed to have Rule 17 on out of the box.

I can confirm that my Rule 17 was defaulted to OFF out of the box.   AUX 1>lighting menu>rule 17>make your choice.

@EscapeRocks posted:

I can confirm that my Rule 17 was defaulted to OFF out of the box.   AUX 1>lighting menu>rule 17>make your choice.

I agree. Typically at least in my experience Rule 17 is off on new engines.

My Mr Muffins custom run UP E9 set does not have Rule 17 capability.  Nor does my UP ES44AC 8003 that was produced the same year and also has the new board.  Actually, Rule 17 does work on the ES44AC, but only in reverse.  In the forward direction the front headlight is always at full intensity whether it is stopped or running.  These are the only 2 of my 32 Legacy engines that will not activate or turn off Rule 17 using AUX1 Rule17/auto, manual, off.  I wouldn't be surprised if all the Legacy engines made with the first run of the new board are missing that feature.  The lack of Rule 17 capability isn't as annoying to me as the "electronic donkey braying -  Hee-Haw) they put in the sound set for both the E9 and, even worse, the ES44AC.  I don't know what it suppose to represent, but it resembles a sound in a steam engine. 

Guys I know how to turn Rule 17 on. It’s not functional on this set.

Been a minute since I had my E9’s out so I can’t comment on rule 17. Really I’m more bummed On no strobe on the top of the cab. Any who I don’t ever recall a “hee-haw” sound is there a video of the sound anywhere I missed?

Here is the sound in an ES44AC. The E9 set has the same sound, but it doesn't play as frequently as it does in the ES44AC.  Maybe it's prototypical, but I don't know what it represents. 

@JFC454 posted:

Here is the sound in an ES44AC. The E9 set has the same sound, but it doesn't play as frequently as it does in the ES44AC.  Maybe it's prototypical, but I don't know what it represents.

Did someone at Lionel attempt to add some new sounds to it besides the prime mover? That appears to be something more like their rolling stock with the banging sounds.

That does happen quite frequently, to me it just simply sounds like metal creaking like you may hear on a steam locomotive. I typically only run steam so that's probably why I wouldn't have noticed it.

@zhubl posted:

That does happen quite frequently, to me it just simply sounds like metal creaking like you may hear on a steam locomotive. I typically only run steam so that's probably why I wouldn't have noticed it.

I agree that some of the creaking and “heehawing” sound like steam engine noises.  With my E9 set they occur at random in about 25 second intervals so they are not too noticeable.  On the ES44AC the interval is about 10 seconds.

I have a Mr Muffin E9 UP set, which fortunately has no control issues. I noticed the wheel squeal (which is what I assume it is) right away as something different from earlier Legacy diesels and just thought it was a new sound feature. On mine it is only obvious at slow speeds and frankly I am not bothered by it. I haven't measured the intervals but they are not as frequent as in the ES44 video posted above. When the engines are running at speed I can't hear it at all; they sound like typical E series locos, whether E7, 8 or 9, highballing along.

It would have been better if Lionel had announced or explained this change as it is otherwise unexpected, maybe even unwanted. And there doesn't seem to be a way to turn it off.

The absence of Rule 17 lighting I had not noticed, but these E9s come with ditch lights and I was more concerned to ensure that they work correctly (they do). If Rule 17 lighting has been omitted in these models I'd guess that Lionel had some reason for it but I have not checked whether it is prototypical for the headlight to be at full illumination when these engines are stopped. The cab light on mine comes on and off as you'd expect. Taken together the lighting features are good enough for me not to be concerned about Rule 17 control. But like the new sounds it is a little puzzling.

My set is also a very smooth runner with great speed and smoke output control. I am certainly satisfied with it.

Here’s the “hee-haw” sound on my E8 set. I actually like it , but it recurs a bit too often. Note the lack of Rule 17, even though it is set to Auto, and the presence of the awful background static. I love these engines, and am very glad Lionel was able to repair the main problem they had, but on all my other Legacy diesels there is no such static sound and Rule 17 works.

Well, I don’t hear any static like that on mine, but I hardly ever dial down the volume. When I have, I don’t heard the ticking/scratching sound, and I don’t think it can be right for that sound to be there. Never had that issue with any Legacy engine, but background racket/buzzing is present in a few TMCC Railsounds models I have. (Never been able to cure that and not everybody with the same models reports it; it may be a function of the track/transformer combo I use, or possibly some interference in the household circuit they are on or from an appliance.)

I guess if you listen hard enough to these particular models you will pick up some noise you don’t like but video recordings don’t always reflect what is heard in person. And sound will also vary depending on the playback device, whether you use earphones and what specs they have. Listening to the below short test vid of my E9s on a tablet with very standard spec earbuds, I think I hear some noises that I don’t in person, where all the sounds are smooth and in particular when running the set at speed:

On a positive note, I really like some of the changes to the sound package, such as the choice of 5 different horns and bell pitches and the more realistic, random crew talk....

Another improvement: when you quickly throttle down to zero at speed in order to get that squealing brake finish it now increases the pitch of the squeal just before the engine stops....

Can those of you who have this set check something for me? I know some of you have Rule 17 working and some don’t, but I just discovered another anomaly: when the engine starts moving I’m not getting the sound of the air brake release that is usual for Legacy diesels. Anyone else notice this?

@JamesRx posted:

Can those of you who have this set check something for me? I know some of you have Rule 17 working and some don’t, but I just discovered another anomaly: when the engine starts moving I’m not getting the sound of the air brake release that is usual for Legacy diesels. Anyone else notice this?

I did not notice this but I think you are right; I don’t hear that formerly standard sound with mine (see E9 set video above). Specific sounds are not mentioned in the catalog description of the sets of which mine is one. I wish Lionel had made it clear in what ways the sound sets were being modified other than the addition of the bell and horn options. Not a deal breaker for me but still slightly odd.

p.S. It might not mean anything but I notice that the manual for these sets mentions air brake release sounds when using Automatic Sequence Control, which I have not tried yet. The manual for the 2016 issue of E7s also mentions that sound in the same place. But with these and earlier E series sets I know that the sound was there when starting up manually.

Looks like Rule 17 and the brake release at startup got lost in the shuffle when they redid the Legacy electronics. Air brake sound is still there when the engine comes to a stop, fortunately.

Too bad the boards can’t be reprogrammed remotely. I won’t send it back to Lionel again just to get those 2 features restored.

@JamesRx posted:

Looks like Rule 17 and the brake release at startup got lost in the shuffle when they redid the Legacy electronics. Air brake sound is still there when the engine comes to a stop, fortunately.

Too bad the boards can’t be reprogrammed remotely. I won’t send it back to Lionel again just to get those 2 features restored.

Yeah, I think that you are right again. If I understood the memory requirements for Legacy (despite asking, I don't), I suppose I'd think it's possible that certain features were eliminated to make room for extra bells and whistles/horns. Losing them in the shuffle seems more likely until you consider that Lionel has been pretty careful about certain prototypical features lately - to the surprise of some of us, who were expecting something different in line with what they have produced in the past.

I'm not griping, I'd just prefer to have what they have decided to do explained, if not also why.

Well I just called my dealer and my E8 is still at Lionel after almost 2 months from it being sent to them.

@Hancock52 posted:

I did not notice this but I think you are right; I don’t hear that formerly standard sound with mine (see E9 set video above). Specific sounds are not mentioned in the catalog description of the sets of which mine is one. I wish Lionel had made it clear in what ways the sound sets were being modified other than the addition of the bell and horn options. Not a deal breaker for me but still slightly odd.

p.S. It might not mean anything but I notice that the manual for these sets mentions air brake release sounds when using Automatic Sequence Control, which I have not tried yet. The manual for the 2016 issue of E7s also mentions that sound in the same place. But with these and earlier E series sets I know that the sound was there when starting up manually.

If that were the case, Rule 17 and brake release would be out of all Legacy engines especially other E8s that seem to have it.  I'm not convinced this is the case.  A programming issue maybe but not a loss of the feature intentionally.  Maybe @Dave Olson could weigh in.

I think @MartyE hit the nail on the head. These are new boards and while I’m sure Lionel Engineering has done plenty of tests but obviously some things slipped through. I’m also sure @Dave Olson and the whole team will continue to improve and work the kinks out 😉

You’re right....Dave just informed me the missing Rule 17 was a bug in the new boards that has been fixed. I’m guessing the brake release is the same story. The service department, which fixed my other problem, was apparently not aware of the programming issue, even though I mentioned to them that Rule 17 didn’t function. He offered to take the set back in to reprogram but I’m going to keep as is; I’d rather not take the chance that anything gets damaged in shipping back and forth again.

This is where I wish authorized service centers could reflash the firmware are these and RCMC boards. I can understand why they want to keep that in house but I would think the benefit for us would be great. A service center keeps 1 of each board and can flash it as needed not having to wait for a board to show up.