While I see the appeal of buying stuff you like, with the imminent demise of MTH, is buying new wise? No ability to make warranty claims. No parts sources. No service. Just seems like a bad bet, especially at full price. I guess you could express the same concerns about buying used, but at least you are not buying used at full price.
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This is my fear. I much prefer the cheaper prices of mth engines. I really like the imperial sd70/es44 models, but I’m new and don’t want to sink much (if any) money into a sinking ship. I have a hunch that someone will buy the tooling or company, so I’ll saint til then.
I just read about TIUs being hard to find, and that may just be the beginning. There will always be a market for Shelf Queens for collectors, but operators will begin to diminish in volume due to lack of support and spare parts for the electronics. On a popular auction site it's easy to find smaller MTH steamers for sale with their boards removed. Before too long there might be a growing market for retrofit replacements for DCS products.
Dale
@jjm posted:While I see the appeal of buying stuff you like, with the imminent demise of MTH, is buying new wise? No ability to make warranty claims. No parts sources. No service. Just seems like a bad bet, especially at full price. I guess you could express the same concerns about buying used, but at least you are not buying used at full price.
Who is claiming all this. Mth doesn't need a large building in Columbia to do warranty claims or repairs. Didn't Mike start out in his parents garage or something like that. I am pretty sure I heard a couple of fellows are going to keep the parts end going. A lot of speculation here on what is or isn't going to happen. As far as used, no warranty and some of the asking prices that I have seen here on the forum are insane. Cost of new or higher. Maybe call MTH and ask them their plans about warranty and service. You could post that instead of speculation. I would think that Mike had considered all of this before he announced this latest run of new products.
Forest, that's a fairly hostile response! And then you engaged in your own speculation, admitting you have no idea what MTH's plans are but sure they will cover all the bases. Interesting speculation on your part, right?
But your speculation aside, MTH has been asked repeatedly (look up some other posts here and elsewhere) and has refused to say what the future might hold. That is fact, not speculation. Therefore, the future is not known because MTH refuses to say.
As for diminished service, there is an MTH tech who posts on these forums who has stated that many of his co-workers are already gone. I have dealt with Midge in parts for years. She is great, but as others have posted and I have experienced, she is pretty much a one person show at this point. It has been two months since she replied to my parts request, and that comes after a long history of very prompt replies.
Still willing to speculate?
So is the reason to still buy new all based on the hope that all will be well, even in the presence of MTH's refusal to say anything?
2 new diesels, both missing detail parts. They sent parts for one, waiting on the other. I had to fix some Quality issues as well.
@Forest posted:Who is claiming all this. Mth doesn't need a large building in Columbia to do warranty claims or repairs. Didn't Mike start out in his parents garage or something like that. I am pretty sure I heard a couple of fellows are going to keep the parts end going. A lot of speculation here on what is or isn't going to happen. As far as used, no warranty and some of the asking prices that I have seen here on the forum are insane. Cost of new or higher. Maybe call MTH and ask them their plans about warranty and service. You could post that instead of speculation. I would think that Mike had considered all of this before he announced this latest run of new products.
One could say there's equal speculation about what is going to happen. 
Personally, I think calling MTH and asking about their plans is a fool's errand. If they were ready to reveal their plans, I'd certainly expect that they would have done so!
Starting a company in your garage is one thing, but supporting potentially thousands of customers with warranty and service requirements is not a garage operation!
@jjm posted:As for diminished service, there is an MTH tech who posts on these forums who has stated that many of his co-workers are already gone. I have dealt with Midge in parts for years. She is great, but as others have posted and I have experienced, she is pretty much a one person show at this point. It has been two months since she replied to my parts request, and that comes after a long history of very prompt replies.
I believe Midge is also gone now. Most of the techs are gone as well. Who are you gonna' call? Ghost Busters?
Midge is still there, working . I called her today and placed a parts order.
Ron Cerise
@RonCerise posted:Midge is still there, working . I called her today and placed a parts order.
Must have gotten bad information. 
Of course, on the dealer side we don't deal with Midge, probably why our parts orders get scrambled. 
SIRT, you bring up another concern. Who is even paying attention to quality control at this point?
Some people don't read the news:
"Upon our closing in May 2021, our ASC network will provide warranty coverage through April 2022"
The ASC "network", of which I am a part, can't provide support without parts.
Then how does MTH intend fulfill warranty repairs through the ASC network? How will you be compensated for performing warranty work? I would think this would almost be criminal if a company is to sell a product right up to the closing date, offer a warranty through the tech network (and promise that these techs will honor the warranty), and then provide absolutely no way for those techs to fulfill that warranty.
@H1000 posted:Some people don't read the news:
"Upon our closing in May 2021, our ASC network will provide warranty coverage through April 2022"
Yeah, I had seen that. But that's just a year and they are not going to be overseen by the manufacturer. After that, then what?
And John is echoing the same concern that others have voiced - without parts, the service means nothing.
So I come back to the question. What would be the reason to pay top dollar for a soon-to-be-orphaned product?
@jjm posted:Yeah, I had seen that. But that's just a year and they are not going to be overseen by the manufacturer. After that, then what?
And John is echoing the same concern that others have voiced - without parts, the service means nothing.
So I come back to the question. What would be the reason to pay top dollar for a soon-to-be-orphaned product?
So MTH will sell you an engine on May 31, 2021 and close the door for good on June 1. And if you received that engine on June 5th with a blown board, John has no way to honor the one year warranty because MTH won't/can't provide parts to the ASC tech?
I might add that the assertion I have seen elsewhere that many old Lionels still run great and still have parts available is way off the mark. The pre-electronic Lionels are much easier to reapair and fairly cheap for some parts to be replicated. Not such a great comparison. And with Lionel still around, you can still find some (not all) electronic components for older equipment.
@H1000 posted:So MTH will sell you an engine on May 31, 2021 and close the door for good on June 1. And if you received that engine on June 5th with a blown board, John has no way to honor the one year warranty because MTH won't/can't provide parts to the ASC tech?
That seems to be a substantial risk to me. Would that stop you from buying a new MTH engine?
New MTH worth buying?
No.
- Crank
@jjm posted:That seems to be a substantial risk to me. Would that stop you from buying a new MTH engine?
A reputable company that been in this business for many years would most likely face some legal action if that was that is going to be the practice. It's a form of bait & switch.
No it doesn't stop from buying any new MTH. I run pretty much everything on the Railking end of things, and they share many parts between many models. The DCS group is going to live on and I suspect that they will continue to sell upgrade kits and other DCS components.
I guess I am more optimistic than some here. I have no reluctance to buy new MTH product. Have two locomotives on preorder at the present time. Of the dozens of MTH locomotives I have purchased over the years, I have only had problems with three or four of them (all of which were corrected). That being said, I'm confident some enterprising individual or individuals will be around in the future to either fix problematic engines, or perhaps even replace the guts with some existing or new components that will keep things running.
@H1000 posted:So MTH will sell you an engine on May 31, 2021 and close the door for good on June 1. And if you received that engine on June 5th with a blown board, John has no way to honor the one year warranty because MTH won't/can't provide parts to the ASC tech?
The problem is, warranty repairs are done with no labor reimbursement for ASC's. The idea is that the shop you're affiliated with sold the product, so they have the liability to provide the labor for the warranty and MTH supplies the parts. There are a handful of "national repair centers" that are, or were, reimbursed by MTH for labor. If the shop I'm affiliated with doesn't sell the product, I'm not doing free repairs, that seems to be a losing proposition! See below for the MTH definition of the services centers.
@Allan Miller posted:I guess I am more optimistic than some here. I have no reluctance to buy new MTH product. Have two locomotives on preorder at the present time. Of the dozens of MTH locomotives I have purchased over the years, I have only had problems with three or four of them (all of which were corrected). That being said, I'm confident some enterprising individual or individuals will be around in the future to either fix problematic engines, or perhaps even replace the guts with some existing or new components that will keep things running.
I want to be optimistic Allan, I really do. I like my MTH products, and I sure don't want my thirty odd engines or tons of passenger cars and freight cars to be come orphans! I'm just a bit concerned that we're approaching the clubhouse turn and other than a brief "news clip" months ago, there is no word on exactly how thing proceed from here. In this case, silence isn't golden.
@Allan Miller posted:I guess I am more optimistic than some here. I have no reluctance to buy new MTH product. Have two locomotives on preorder at the present time. Of the dozens of MTH locomotives I have purchased over the years, I have only had problems with three or four of them (all of which were corrected). That being said, I'm confident some enterprising individual or individuals will be around in the future to either fix problematic engines, or perhaps even replace the guts with some existing or new components that will keep things running.
Me too. I have (had?) about 100 of their engines. Only a few issues too. The used ones that had been abused were my worse issue cases. I'll keep buying until I can't anymore.
I've bought engines from others and they were straightened out usually with a simple fix like a new battery, light bulb, wire rerouting, etc. Two were just scrambled.
Batteries and smoke wicks are what has kept me busy. Most recent has been G scale traction tires running outside mainly by age, heat, or defects. I wish I could get rid of them.
I have been running MTH engines for well over a decade now and the DCS software bugs have always been my biggest issue.
I admit that I don't understand a lot of this concern. There is a very large installed base, and I suspect that parts will be available, at least for the remainder of my actuarial life. (An ad for a BCR I bought to replace the battery in one of my MTH locomotives stated that "over 70,000 have been sold". That might possibly mean that thousands of MTH locomotives have been sold...certainly sufficient as a source of parts in this hobby!) The electronics allows MTH engines to run either DCC, DCS, or conventional. The models are excellent mechanically, with good motors and metal gearing, so even with boards removed they are certainly worth having, and I am sure that they could be made operable with all of the electronics removed. Am I buying these for "investment"? No. I am buying them to operate and enjoy. I do understand the issue of complicated repair requiring a trained MTH tech and possible sourcing issues with the parts he needs though. I have two engines on order now, and have absolutely no hesitancy in receiving them. MTH has "backward standardized" to a significant extent, as opposed to other train importers who make control system changes every few years, and the need to upgrade peripheral equipment at relatively frequent intervals.
John that still doesn't answer how your shop will honor warranties if you have no access to oem parts to do so.
Unfortunately in this hobby the silence has to be because the dealer's that any manufacturer works with will gossip "secret" news faster than a bunch of teenage girls. Look at the catalog leaks that always get deleted by the moderators.
Concerns are valid. I was looking closely at a new diesel I had been running and noticed a tire was off and stuck between the wheel and truck casting. No big deal - the tire came off - happens occasionally. Put the engine in the cradle & found that the tire had been installed on a wheel that was not grooved to have a tire. Problem is that the wheel should have been grooved and the wrong wheel was installed at the factory.
A more serious issue involved my lifting the removable cover off a different, fresh out of the box diesel and finding a loose wire nut sandwiched in the cover. For this engine I removed the shell prior to running and found the ground wires located under the board without a wire nut. The nut on the red bundle was loose.
As a final point, I am finding recurrent issues with new PS3 diesels going into "squawk" mode. Some reset, another will require that I reload the chain file again. This is more frustrating than the items listed above so hopefully the boards are not defective.
I am a huge fan of MTH and have over 100 engines (they're like rabbits) with a few more on order, so cross my fingers & hope they arrive issue free.
I've been adding many new MTH engines to my collection lately. Much prefer DCS to Legacy and they will run great for many years to come. Never have had an MTH engine break down in 15 years.
I bought 2 MTH locomotives and I have a 3rd on order. I would have bought more if I had the funds. Why? Because Lionel won’t be producing engines with scale wheels anytime soon. Probably, not ever. Nothing against Lionel but they do not produce what I am interested in. So in the future I will just enjoy what I have, which is plenty enough for me, and there is always the secondary market where something I like or need may pop up.
I am not concerned about the electronics because I could always install DCC. The fact that I no longer will be able to buy engines with scale wheels bothers me. Add to that locomotives with scale wheels are a lot more rarer that the regular hi rail version.
@H1000 posted:A reputable company that been in this business for many years would most likely face some legal action if that was that is going to be the practice. It's a form of bait & switch.
No it doesn't stop from buying any new MTH. I run pretty much everything on the Railking end of things, and they share many parts between many models. The DCS group is going to live on and I suspect that they will continue to sell upgrade kits and other DCS components.
No one to take legal action against. The entity will be gone.
@jjm posted:No one to take legal action against. The entity will be gone.
So Mike Wolf is leaving the country? Couldn't he be held responsible for allowing his own (former) company for not honoring a warranty that is explicitly spelled out on a news release with his face on it?
Maybe Lionel will buy MTH out and the final chapter will be written.
@yamaha226 posted:Maybe Lionel will buy MTH out and the final chapter will be written.
You've just opened a Thread killing can of worms!
It's been discussed, everyone has opinion but nobody has a clue...
I said Maybe.
@yamaha226 posted:Maybe Lionel will buy MTH out and the final chapter will be written.
That would be ironic. Several yrs back when Mike was getting started, one of the magazines did an article w/ Mike. One of the questions he was asked, what's your goal ? Mike said he'd like to get the name "Lionel", but that's not gonna happen.
Been here since the Lawsuit as have many other members.
@jjm posted:SIRT, you bring up another concern. Who is even paying attention to quality control at this point?
Quality has always been an issue with both companies. Usually it’s just some cosmetics. Lately it’s been more major details like missing parts - fuel pipe and brake cylinders. Midge is working on getting them to me but the supplier will have them when doing the next batch of EL RS3’s I guess? I believe the brand will carry on. Only thing I need is an SCL F3 A.
As I wind down the hobby on engine collection, for me, buying Lionel is out of the question. I always found their power units overpriced like Atlas plus I don’t have their system. I don’t like the way they are made and put together either, kind of shotty.
We shall see in due time what happens.
Depends on your perception of the risk, your risk tolerance, and whether you believe in the possibility of resurrection, this being close to Easter. If there is no announcement of what has been promised by Easter, I'm guessing MTH as a coherent entity is done. Tooling may occasionally be used by others, but no catalogs, no regular issuing of updates, etc.
My guess is GRJ's formulation above is likely to be closest to what is actually going to happen. Some larger and well off dealers (are there any?) may continue free warranty repairs for a while, but that sounds like a heavy lift. Assume that anything you buy now could have no warranty once the company is formally dissolved.
Class action lawsuits only work if there are a lot of members of the class and the defendant has significant resources that can be attached. Ain't happening here is my guess. Individual lawsuits will be too expensive considering the legal costs.
“Depends on your perception of the risk, your risk tolerance, and whether you believe in the possibility of resurrection, this being close to Easter. “
Nah, not for me. The risk calculation is a lot more worldly and not based on any belief in mth going all Lazarus on us. I have over 30 mth engines right now, and besides my ps-2 5 volt subway trains, which were run into the ground and overheated with excessive car loads, I have never had any material problems in over 25 years of purchases. I even have 2 diesels that are over 20 years old with 5 volt ps-2 boards that are still workhorses on my pike (cheap generic replacement speaker changes were made in both). Based on that, I was more than happy to add a few more engines in the past year. If I get anywhere near the running time and lifespan of my existing mth collection, it will be more than worth it to me. My success with mth engines has been significantly better than any other manufacturer I’ve ever bought. That’s my risk calculation and it’s a no brainer if mth makes an engine that I want. I'm not going to wait and get the product used and all the risks that that entails (buying someones abused product, not being able to get it afterwards, etc). Nope, if they make it new, and it is something I want. i will buy it.
@H1000 posted:So Mike Wolf is leaving the country? Couldn't he be held responsible for allowing his own (former) company for not honoring a warranty that is explicitly spelled out on a news release with his face on it?
As others point out, legal action is expensive and time consuming. And the result would not be performance on warranties or service. The end result would be a judgment or settlement amounting to peanuts.
My "new" B&O RPO passenger car leaves much to be desired. It actually has broken detail parts and the oilly finger prints all over the chassis will take a lot of clean-up work. There is also the inner parts that have dislodged. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to try tracking down someone at MTH to rectify these issues, so any issues I find ultimately falls on me.
@Strap Hanger posted:“Depends on your perception of the risk, your risk tolerance, and whether you believe in the possibility of resurrection, this being close to Easter. “
Nah, not for me. The risk calculation is a lot more worldly and not based on any belief in mth going all Lazarus on us. I have over 30 mth engines right now, and besides my ps-2 5 volt subway trains, which were run into the ground and overheated with excessive car loads, I have never had any material problems in over 25 years of purchases. I even have 2 diesels that are over 20 years old with 5 volt ps-2 boards that are still workhorses on my pike. Based on that, I was more than happy to add a few more engines in the past year. If I get anywhere near the running time and lifespan of my existing mth collection, it will be more than worth it to me. My success with mth engines has been significantly better than any other manufacturer I’ve ever bought. That’s my risk calculation and it’s a no brainer if mth makes an engine that I want.
I have a number of older MTH engines too - including PS-1s! All bought new and all still running fine. But that was history, not the present. Hasn't the risk equation changed? Who is overseeing quality today? Who even cares at MTH? The historical performance anecdotes good and bad are fine, but the risk is in the overall performance from today forward. And that risk is deepened with very thin evidence that MTH-backed warranty and service work will be available. Whatever might come forth will not be backed by MTH. It will all be a patchwork of providers who will do what they can (and certainly charge for it) until the parts run out. K-Line might be an interesting comparison, but its later electronics were all Lionel. The original stuff is just mechanical, and typically easy to fix. That "less expensive than others" new MTH purchase today could be a whole lot more expensive going forward. Without assurances, how do you know?
I do believe the arrangement is with certain larger dealers to honor warranties and even as before I am sure they will hold some product currently being made to support warranty repairs. Even Lionel does this. The parts continuation is actively being pursued.
So what does this mean. If you are a risk taker buy from anyone. If you are risk adverse buy from a reputable dealer and thoroughly test out the product once you get it. Then enjoy it. That way if it is defect out of box you can return it or replace it.
I know we tend to treasure these trains as valuable heirlooms, but lets be real. Investing in rolling stock is a loosing proposition. A nice diner out is $100 and you do not get to keep it and re eat it for a few years. Around of golf???
Sure, if you drop it and break shell or major chassis parts your out of luck. But most repairs are smoke rebuild, coupler, bulbs/leds, harnesses and circuit boards which at least for MTH are pretty general and reprogrammable. Think what happens if this occurs for Lionel.
In the end you will even have greater value in selling a dead engine for salvage parts. Just enjoy it. G
@jjm posted:I have a number of older MTH engines too - including PS-1s! All bought new and all still running fine. But that was history, not the present. Hasn't the risk equation changed? Who is overseeing quality today? Who even cares at MTH? The historical performance anecdotes good and bad are fine, but the risk is in the overall performance from today forward. And that risk is deepened with very thin evidence that MTH-backed warranty and service work will be available. Whatever might come forth will not be backed by MTH. It will all be a patchwork of providers who will do what they can (and certainly charge for it) until the parts run out. K-Line might be an interesting comparison, but its later electronics were all Lionel. The original stuff is just mechanical, and typically easy to fix. That "less expensive than others" new MTH purchase today could be a whole lot more expensive going forward. Without assurances, how do you know?
"How do you know?" Well none of us does, but that is the risk calculation we all get to make. For some, like you, its a bridge too far. For me, I'm good. I've never really utilized MTH warranty services, their products have worked out that good for me (my ps2 5v subway failures happened well after warranty time expired). The ones I bought last year are coming up to the end of their warranty and they are running fine. My new purchases? - we shall see, but that is a risk I'm more than fine with based on my experiences. If it doesn't work out and there are no available sources of MTH parts, I'll add them to the pile of defective garbage I have from other manufacturers sitting on my display shelf awaiting new electronic guts (Trying to decide if I go old school electronic e unit with those or go with top of the line lionel guts).
Either way, May the train gods smile upon all of us, regardless of your decision.
@jjm posted:As others point out, legal action is expensive and time consuming. And the result would not be performance on warranties or service. The end result would be a judgment or settlement amounting to peanuts.
Jim, The point is that Mike specifically said that warranty will be provided through April of 2022. When in the service history of MTH did they ever fault on that policy and not provide the warranty they offer? It's obvious that Mike knew this would be a concern for anyone purchasing anything after his retirement and hence the guarantee that warranties will be offered to specific date.
I could care less about a class action suite. If I get a defective engine, that on my LHS, not MTH. Mike Wolf himself would probable face some form of criminal fraud charges if these last batches of products can't be repaired under a warranty that he very specifically promised through April of 2022.
@GGG posted:Sure, if you drop it and break shell or major chassis parts your out of luck.
And warranties from any manufacture do not cover damage caused by our own carelessness.
My experience with pretty much all of my hobby purchases is that if it not broke out of the box, it will have a nice long service life. I give anything I buy a good hard workout on the layout for about month to ensure everything is up to spec. I've only had one (new) DOA product to date and that was promptly replaced by my LHS.
@H1000 posted:Jim, The point is that Mike specifically said that warranty will be provided through April of 2022. When in the service history of MTH did they ever fault on that policy and not provide the warranty they offer? It's obvious that Mike knew this would be a concern for anyone purchasing anything after his retirement and hence the guarantee that warranties will be offered to specific date.
I could care less about a class action suite. If I get a defective engine, that on my LHS, not MTH. Mike Wolf himself would probable face some form of criminal fraud charges if these last batches of products can't be repaired under a warranty that he very specifically promised through April of 2022.
So my point from the beginning, then, is why accept this risk? As others who actually do service work already stated in this thread, they don't have any assurance that parts will be available and are expected to eat the service cost as well. Seems like a shaky model to me. That's why I posed the question. Why accept having these risks transferred to the consumer and still pay full price?
@jjm posted:So my point from the beginning, then, is why accept this risk? As others who actually do service work already stated in this thread, they don't have any assurance that parts will be available and are expected to eat the service cost as well. Seems like a shaky model to me. That's why I posed the question. Why accept having these risks transferred to the consumer and still pay full price?
What Risk!?!?!?? My LHS has already said "order away", apparently he's not worried about parts or repairing these things. Perhaps he has ordered extra to cover that? I don't know and I don't care. If the product arrives defective, I'll send it back and he'll make it right whether he fixes it or refunds my money, neither one of those options sound risky to me... I'm not really out anything.
BTW, I'm not paying full price on my current pre-orders items.
@Trussman posted:That would be ironic. Several yrs back when Mike was getting started, one of the magazines did an article w/ Mike. One of the questions he was asked, what's your goal ? Mike said he'd like to get the name "Lionel", but that's not gonna happen.
Maybe after MTH goes away Mike Wolf enjoy a short retirement before he succeeds Mr. Hitchcock as President of Lionel! A win for everyone! Yeah!
@H1000 posted:What Risk!?!?!?? My LHS has already said order away, he's not worried about parts or repairing these things. Perhaps he has ordered extra to cover that? I don't know and I don't care. If the product arrives defective, I'll send it back and he'll make it right whether he fixes it or refunds my money, neither one of those options sounds risky to me... I'm not really out anything.
OK, your risk mitigation strategy is "dump it back onto the dealer - let him deal with it." That's one view. Assuming, of course, that the LHS is still around to make good. And the fact that dealers are not obliged to take defective products back after a number of days (far less than one year) in most states. As one person pointed out previously, perhaps it is best to pay full price from a larger dealer, then, and avoid the LHS - choose a large dealer that is a direct part of the warranty extension program. Might be a good idea to buy the stuff on one of those credit cards with extended warranty benefits too. No repair, but a chance to get your money back.
To answer the OP's question: For you, no, stop buying MTH!
For anyone else worried about it: Also no, don't buy MTH!
Everyone else, please leave me some new MTH locomotives to buy! The only MTH locomotives I have ever received that were bad were ones I bought knowing they were bad. I have no fear buying more MTH. About the only real thing that will fail is the electronics. So what if I can't get new PS-3 boards, just gut it and install DCC (Or TMCC) and I'm good to go. All these chicken little sky if falling posts are getting old.
@jjm posted:OK, your risk mitigation strategy is "dump it back onto the dealer - let him deal with it." That's one view. Assuming, of course, that the LHS is still around to make good. And the fact that dealers are not obliged to take defective products back after a number of days (far less than one year) in most states. As one person pointed out previously, perhaps it is best to pay full price from a larger dealer, then, and avoid the LHS - choose a large dealer that is a direct part of the warranty extension program. Might be a good idea to buy the stuff on one of those credit cards with extended warranty benefits too. No repair, but a chance to get your money back.
Jim, My LHS has never let me down and doesn't want to lose my business. I have run any & all warranties, repairs, defects and replacements through them, so "dumping on the dealer" has always been my strategy. That's why I shop exclusively with them, because they take care of me. After the warranty runs out on something, I'll take care of it myself or will find somebody who will.
Aren't all LHSs also "Dealers"? I shopped around for curiosity sake on line and really couldn't find anyone who selling the latest runs of stuff at MSRP pricing.
Why would Mike put the April 2022 claim in his news announcement if he has no intentions of making good on it?
@H1000 posted:Jim, My LHS has never let me down and doesn't want to lose my business. I have run any & all warranties, repairs, defects and replacements through them, so "dumping on the dealer" has always been my strategy. That's why I shop exclusively with them, because they take care of me. After the warranty runs out on something, I'll take care of it myself or will find somebody who will.
Aren't all LHSs also "Dealers"? I shopped around for curiosity sake on line and really couldn't find anyone who selling the latest runs of stuff at MSRP pricing.
Why would Mike put the April 2022 claim in his news announcement if he has no intentions of making good on it?
Why? Because if he does not make that claim (as flimsy as it appears to be), no one would be interested in buying his products, especially at full price. And by full price, I don't necessarily mean MSRP. No one buys much at MSRP anyway, but we pay up to buy new compared with used.
@sinclair posted:To answer the OP's question: For you, no, stop buying MTH!
For anyone else worried about it: Also no, don't buy MTH!
Everyone else, please leave me some new MTH locomotives to buy! The only MTH locomotives I have ever received that were bad were ones I bought knowing they were bad. I have no fear buying more MTH. About the only real thing that will fail is the electronics. So what if I can't get new PS-3 boards, just gut it and install DCC (Or TMCC) and I'm good to go. All these chicken little sky if falling posts are getting old.
You complain about the posts and yet you join the discussion anyway. Just skip by, right? Pretty interesting! Join the discussion just to complain about the views of others? Nice.
You also miss the point. Why pay new issue pricing for products that are likely to be orphaned? Especially in an environment where the the incentive to maintain quality control is questionable at best why pay up? And, yes, the electronics are the likely biggest - and most expensive - concern.
@jjm posted:Why? Because if he does not make that claim (as flimsy as it appears to be), no one would be interested in buying his products, especially at full price. And by full price, I don't necessarily mean MSRP. No one buys much at MSRP anyway, but we pay up to buy new compared with used.
He was selling product that would need to covered by that extended warranty already before the retirement announcement. Again, if you make a promise to offer services like a warranty only to sell more product with no intention of ever honoring that warranty, that is called fraud. And Mike himself plus anyone else involved with that fraud would be held criminally liable. The fear of going to prison and loosing the fortune Mike has amassed would be a very good incentive to honor that warranty...
This doesn't make any sense: but we pay up to buy new compared with used.
What exactly should full price be? You're saying that MTH should discount all of it products so that the dealers should be able to offer further discounts?
@jjm posted:Why? Because if he does not make that claim (as flimsy as it appears to be), no one would be interested in buying his products, especially at full price. And by full price, I don't necessarily mean MSRP. No one buys much at MSRP anyway, but we pay up to buy new compared with used.
Not sure what your end goal is here. Is it to convince people to not buy new MTH? You asked the question in your opening post, and laid out a couple concerns about buying new MTH.
Other hobbyists answered you. When their answers didn't match your feelings about it, you came back hard with more reasons to not buy new MTH. So, of course, those people are going to come back even harder with why they will buy., and it just keeps escalating.
Just accept that there are those who are comfortable with it, with the full knowledge that MTH is closing and all that entails.
I don't see the need to drill down to every last detail. You stated it may be a bad idea to buy new. Some stated why they aren't concerned. You then kept throwing in more reasons to back up your position, which is fine, but after awhile it just becomes a silly exercise of, "yeah, but what about.....?" After awhile that will cause people to get irritated and reply with what you called, "nasty response.." (although I didn't see what was nasty about that specific post , it was just direct).
You started this debate just fine, with objective observations about the whole MTH situation. It appears when you weren't getting the overall responses you expected, you then began bringing in subjective tropes. That's where you lose people.
Summary:
Those who have stated they will buy new MTH have also said they accept the risk and given a reason why they accept that risk. That's really all that matters, and does answer the question in your original premise.
In reference to the topic of the thread, my answer would be YES, I am continuing to order from MTH. Of course funds are always the deciding factor, but as of right now I have four locos on order that are scheduled to be delivered between March (now) and August/September this year.
I want to see MTH exist after this summer, so I am hopeful. I also find comfort in seeing so many very competent forum members that can do repairs on MTH locos, or, in more drastic cases, convert them to TMCC/Legacy (I am not a fan of the Legacy system, but I have a few Bluetooth equipped Lionel engines and they are nice and have ran well).
I am keeping an eye on the future, and curious to see what happens.
@EscapeRocks posted:Not sure what your end goal is here. Is it to convince people to not buy new MTH? You asked the question in your opening post, and laid out a couple concerns about buying new MTH.
Other hobbyists answered you. When their answers didn't match your feelings about it, you came back hard with more reasons to not buy new MTH. So, of course, those people are going to come back even harder with why they will buy., and it just keeps escalating.
Just accept that there are those who are comfortable with it, with the full knowledge that MTH is closing and all that entails.
I don't see the need to drill down to every last detail. You stated it may be a bad idea to buy new. Some stated why they aren't concerned. You then kept throwing in more reasons to back up your position, which is fine, but after awhile it just becomes a silly exercise of, "yeah, but what about.....?" After awhile that will cause people to get irritated and reply with what you called, "nasty response.." (although I didn't see what was nasty about that specific post , it was just direct).
You started this debate just fine, with objective observations about the whole MTH situation. It appears when you weren't getting the overall responses you expected, you then began bringing in subjective tropes. That's where you lose people.
Summary:
Those who have stated they will buy new MTH have also said they accept the risk and given a reason why they accept that risk. That's really all that matters, and does answer the question in your original premise.
Thanks. Not sure that anyone offered a compelling reason to buy at new prices today. Lots of historical references to prior experience, but no actual rooting in the present. Glad to see diverse views. But not seeing much based on current reality. Just trying to play that out.
@EscapeRocks posted:Not sure what your end goal is here. Is it to convince people to not buy new MTH? You asked the question in your opening post, and laid out a couple concerns about buying new MTH.
Other hobbyists answered you. When their answers didn't match your feelings about it, you came back hard with more reasons to not buy new MTH. So, of course, those people are going to come back even harder with why they will buy., and it just keeps escalating.
Just accept that there are those who are comfortable with it, with the full knowledge that MTH is closing and all that entails.
I don't see the need to drill down to every last detail. You stated it may be a bad idea to buy new. Some stated why they aren't concerned. You then kept throwing in more reasons to back up your position, which is fine, but after awhile it just becomes a silly exercise of, "yeah, but what about.....?" After awhile that will cause people to get irritated and reply with what you called, "nasty response.." (although I didn't see what was nasty about that specific post , it was just direct).
You started this debate just fine, with objective observations about the whole MTH situation. It appears when you weren't getting the overall responses you expected, you then began bringing in subjective tropes. That's where you lose people.
Summary:
Those who have stated they will buy new MTH have also said they accept the risk and given a reason why they accept that risk. That's really all that matters, and does answer the question in your original premise.
Finally, a voice of reason in this otherwise going-south-quickly thread. 
Once my LHS announced that it was "going away" because its major supplier MTH was "going away," I cancelled my Order for an item that I had placed through my LHS. If I'm going to spend big money (at least for me) I want to see my purchase run... especially if earlier production of the item had been notoriously problematic. [Having said that, I must confess that I was extremely excited when I ordered this item!]
For me it wasn't about the MTH warranty; but rather, about the loyalty and trust which I held for my LHS's owner. Any problems would be resolved at a reasonable price, with or without an MTH warranty. That assurance and trust doesn't exist any longer.
Obviously, a LHS cannot continue without its primary merchandise line being available. This whole MTH affair is and will continue to be a great loss for our hobby, and especially for many trusted LHSs and their (former) customers.
@H1000 posted:He was selling product that would need to covered by that extended warranty already before the retirement announcement. Again, if you make a promise to offer services like a warranty only to sell more product with no intention of ever honoring that warranty, that is called fraud. And Mike himself plus anyone else involved with that fraud would be held criminally liable. The fear of going to prison and loosing the fortune Mike has amassed would be a very good incentive to honor that warranty...
This doesn't make any sense: but we pay up to buy new compared with used.
What exactly should full price be? You're saying that MTH should discount all of it products so that the dealers should be able to offer further discounts?
Are you suggesting that we don’t generally pay more for new than we pay for used?
Yes, my point is rooted in the price you pay for diminished value.
You come back to the liability issue over and over. No one will sue. Not worth the expense. People like Mike know that. And he has presented a good attempt to defend his position that he provided for service after the end. So the only way he loses is if someone can convince a jury or judge that his plan was a sham. A difficult proposition! But as others have pointed out who have more direct knowledge, the ability to provide service appears to be at high risk. He will not lose just because the plan flopped.
@jjm posted:Thanks. Not sure that anyone offered a compelling reason to buy at new prices today. Lots of historical references to prior experience, but no actual rooting in the present. Glad to see diverse views. But not seeing much based on current reality. Just trying to play that out.
This^^^. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy new if it was in fact something not made before and it was something I was looking for but since neither MTH and only rarely Lionel (eg. SP GS-1) has actually made something not made before I will continue to purchase older versions of the same item at a fraction of the cost. Many times these will arrive broken but its never been a problem to get them running again and I don’t expect that will be a problem in the future either.
Pete
I hate when good forums deteriorate to just posting opinions and then finally about other subjects.
I hope when people post, they want answers or facts and not just to create gossip or further their objective of bashing.
Is new MTH worth buying? Yes.
Use discretion at your end. A lot of good ideas here about what to consider.
I have new MTH engines on order, period. You obviously don't. That's fine. So what's your point here?
To gather people for some reason? Do you listen to reason?
@jjm posted:Are you suggesting that we don’t generally pay more for new than we pay for used?
Yes, my point is rooted in the price you pay for diminished value.
You come back to the liability issue over and over. No one will sue. Not worth the expense. People like Mike know that. And he has presented a good attempt to defend his position that he provided for service after the end. So the only way he loses is if someone can convince a jury or judge that his plan was a sham. A difficult proposition! But as others have pointed out who have more direct knowledge, the ability to provide service appears to be at high risk. He will not lose just because the plan flopped.
Jim, I don't understand your goal here. I guess we'll just have to revisit this thread next year to see how the warranty process has worked out.
How do you know that no one will sue? Can I borrow your crystal ball for the weekend, I've got a lottery to win... You are only speculating without any reliable source that MTH will fault on the warranty claim. I am basing my speculation on previous experiences with my LHS being able to get products repaired and honor the warranties provided. Mike has honored his warranty in the past without issue, and even though he is leaving the hobby, he still has a lot to lose by not honoring it in the future. At this point nobody knows the future (unless you own a flying Delorean), so all we can go on is what has happened in the past and what has be announced by reliable sources for the future. Like I said earlier, everyone has an opinion but nobody has a clue.
The "others" you mentioned have very little to anymore direct knowledge than the rest of us. Even John (the highly experienced ASC tech with more direct knowledge than the rest of us) was wrong about a basic fact of who is still working at MTH.
Diminished Value??? Everything in this hobby diminishes in value. Name one thing you bought from any manufacture that increased in value since it was purchased. For every one item that may hold or increase in value, thousands more take a value nose-dive.
I have preorders placed with my LHS. I have no worries about buying new MTH stuff. I'm done with this topic.
@Allan Miller posted:I guess I am more optimistic than some here. I have no reluctance to buy new MTH product. Have two locomotives on preorder at the present time. Of the dozens of MTH locomotives I have purchased over the years, I have only had problems with three or four of them (all of which were corrected). That being said, I'm confident some enterprising individual or individuals will be around in the future to either fix problematic engines, or perhaps even replace the guts with some existing or new components that will keep things running.
Couldn't agree more!
KD
@jjm posted:Thanks. Not sure that anyone offered a compelling reason to buy at new prices today. Lots of historical references to prior experience, but no actual rooting in the present. Glad to see diverse views. But not seeing much based on current reality. Just trying to play that out.
I've seen plenty of justifiable reasons offered by others. You obviously don't see that as "compelling" for you. That's how life is. We can certainly agree to disagree. We can also all read how its been played out in this thread. Like the poster EscapeRocks noted above, you've made your position abundantly clear. To me, so has everyone who is continuing to buy MTH product. No one is trying to "compel" anyone to buy, just answering the initial question based on their own perceived risk tolerances. However, if this goes on much longer, repeating your position over and over, it sure starts to seem like someone is trying to "compel" others not to buy.
I just bought a new premier engine from my local dealer a week ago and have a new Railking one on order as part of the limited new releases. Those new releases are limited, I am told, because now MTH orders ahead of time instead of waiting for orders to come in. These new releases will sell out as my LHS told me, and he couldn't even order as many as he wanted to of certain models. It seems like a good business model for whoever takes over MTH : They make a conservative estimate on new releases, order them from China, make the announcement, sell out, and then move on to the next set of limited releases. That involves limited inventory and limited building space. If I were to speculate, that seems like it could be the likely "new" MTH after Wolf sails off on that Sunset Limited. That's not pure speculation, by the way, because they are doing it right now. Gone for good are the huge catalogs it seems and parts may continue to be limited.
As far as problems, I am convinced that new products need to be run a lot and immediately -- so if there is a problem it will be covered. That one year warranty is 1 year for a reason. The mistake I have made in the past is buying a brand new engine, setting it on the shelf for a year or more and then finding a quality issue. That's then on my dime -- and I'll never do that again.
Let me start by saying that i have all the engines i'll ever want and therefore i don't have a hound in this hunt. But i am curious about what law schools you arm chair lawyers attended with all this mention of class action lawsuits and holding Mike liable for future damages. Perhaps you were absent the week the protections a corporate veil provided business owners?
"Perhaps you were absent the week the protections a corporate veil provided business owners?"
Does the corporate veil exist if the entire corporation is owned by one individual? Just askin' as a make-believe lawyer. I, for one, do not think anyone will have litigation recourse if MTH defaults on warranties or other promises. But you could go down to Miami and sue him in small claims court, which might give you a shot, no?
I still say stick with the reputable dealer. If Mike made arrangements he is going to back it with them. He is being loyal to his worker too from what I heard with the maintenance of the parts and DCS support.
If I was a dealer and Mike made an arrangement for me to do his warranty work, I am sure if an engine is returned and can not be fixed, that the dealer is refunded his purchase money. Mike can take the loss, right. I imagine his reputation is valuable to him. It would be the dealer that sues not the customer...if it ever gets to that.
At this point the upgrade kits are still flowing which means if the part unit does their job right there will be plenty of PS-3 diesel and PS-32 boards available. So the only sticking point is order quantity for PS-3 steam when there is no production of engine to help with minimum order quantity.
But this horse has been beaten, and it sure does seem like sour grapes wanting everyone else to be sour. MTH did the right thing and announced what was happening, giving a year plus notice. Think how many business shut their doors with no notice. G
@GGG posted:I still say stick with the reputable dealer. If Mike made arrangements he is going to back it with them. He is being loyal to his worker too from what I heard with the maintenance of the parts and DCS support.
If I was a dealer and Mike made an arrangement for me to do his warranty work, I am sure if an engine is returned and can not be fixed, that the dealer is refunded his purchase money. Mike can take the loss, right. I imagine his reputation is valuable to him. It would be the dealer that sues not the customer...if it ever gets to that.
At this point the upgrade kits are still flowing which means if the part unit does their job right there will be plenty of PS-3 diesel and PS-32 boards available. So the only sticking point is order quantity for PS-3 steam when there is no production of engine to help with minimum order quantity.
But this horse has been beaten, and it sure does seem like sour grapes wanting everyone else to be sour. MTH did the right thing and announced what was happening, giving a year plus notice. Think how many business shut their doors with no notice. G
Since you are an authorized service provider, what are the details of the deal you have with MTH during the extended warranty period? Are there also assurances of parts availability?
@GGG posted:But this horse has been beaten, and it sure does seem like sour grapes wanting everyone else to be sour. MTH did the right thing and announced what was happening, giving a year plus notice. Think how many business shut their doors with no notice. G
On that point we can agree, that horse is dead!
I really want MTH electronics to continue, and I sure hope they do. I'm just getting concerned about no recent news, maybe I'm just the pessimistic type. I personally would have expected by now to hear more about the organization that will be continuing with the MTH electronics line, but it's hard to say why that hasn't happened.
Truthfully, I'm less concerned about the mechanical side for the most part. Based on my experience and the repairs I see come through, electronics and wiring are the most common failure items. I have a couple of steamers that need tender PS/3 boards, so that's a bit of a problem right now.
We are all over the map on this. There is another thread that asks about panic buying MTH.
Personally, I’ll continue to buy new MTH for as long as I can if there is something that I want. I’ll continue to buy new MTH for the same reason I have always bought MTH. They are the best bang for the buck.
If there is any increased risk, I don’t think it’s significant. Quality problems have been few and far between with my MTH purchases including recent ones. I mitigate risk by buying from one of my local shops that I can drive to so that IF there is a problem, I won’t need to pay for shipping. And Like others, I don’t pay full retail. My local shops offer 10% to 20% discount.
@jjm posted:Since you are an authorized service provider, what are the details of the deal you have with MTH during the extended warranty period? Are there also assurances of parts availability?
I am an independent service tech and not a dealer of product. I do warranty work for some select dealers and my customers who have been with me for years.
MTH is still honoring warranty orders and parts orders. Received parts just last week.
I think you need to call a few of the larger MTH dealers and ask them how they will honor the warranty on a new purchase. G
@Landsteiner posted:"Perhaps you were absent the week the protections a corporate veil provided business owners?"
Does the corporate veil exist if the entire corporation is owned by one individual? Just askin' as a make-believe lawyer. I, for one, do not think anyone will have litigation recourse if MTH defaults on warranties or other promises. But you could go down to Miami and sue him in small claims court, which might give you a shot, no?
As best I can tell, the top MTH entity is a C-corp, though there seems to be some LLC sub-entities. Regardless, these legal entities shield the owners (even if just one) from direct legal claims for actions taken by the corporation.
Upon termination, MTH should be legally required to set aside assets to cover "known" claims, which would likely include estimations of warranty claims. The rest of the assets will be liquidated and distributed to the shareholders.
You can try to sue the estate of MTH, but if there are insufficient assets to satisfy all claimants, you are likely out of luck. And it will take a while.
To move against the shareholders, you probably need to first assert that they engaged in fraudulent conveyance, knowingly distributing assets to themselves and leaving insufficient assets in the estate to satisfy valid claims. A very tall order, and expensive to litigate.
I doubt Mike has any concerns about legal action of any kind. His steps leave him well protected. Even if MTH's post-termination steps fail, he will make a strong case that he set aside a good faith estimate of assets to meet claims. After a "reasonable" period of time, any remaining assets will then go to the shareholders too. But keep in mind that if the assets are exhausted and more claims arise, it is likely that the later claimants will be out of luck.
Remember too, he has lots of litigation experience. I would wager he has set this up to keep him on firm legal ground.
If buying new today, a much easier protection is to use a credit card that offers purchase protection and extended warranty protection. You probably will not get a working engine back, but you might get your money back.
Similar to K-Line, and Weaver models. They set on a shelf well, and collect dust, with the best of them. Eventually, rust, mold, and lack of interest sets in. IMO, Mike CT. A shelf with a lot of very nice Weaver Models. Atlas, Lionel, Thirdrail, etc. also pictured. ?? Did I say I really liked Weaver ?? Time moves on, even the Aluminum shelf company went out of business, and is back. May be a true picture of small business in this country. 
I'd buy if they made something I wanted. I buy models because I like the models. Ultimately, two wires make the motor go on engines. Anything beyond that is gravy. Electronics will fail over time on everything but can be replaced by other electronics. If the model isn't ever built again and those on the market all get scooped up, I'm not sure how to fix that.
I had a mix of MTH RK and Lionel Legacy. I even pre ordered their last UP Big Boy 4014 but when I realized they'll be closing, I wanted a single control system, I cancelled my pre order and ordered a Lionel Big Boy. I sold all my MTH RK except my Amtrak Surfliner. I only buy MTH RK passenger cars and freight cars now.
My entire fleet of about 30 engines is all MTH. Most purchased used. Except for a battery problem (which fried a board and I knew better) I have never had a problem with any MTH engine Steamer, Electric or Diesel. Lately I have bought new engines and have several on backorder. I can't imagine having to move over to other control systems. When these engines die - seems to me battery powered remote control is the next way to go. Sorry to see MTH shut down, time will tell what survives. For now I am picking up new engines now I would have otherwise purchased over time. But I think that road is about done.
At this point, I would only buy MTH PS3 locomotives. The sound boards on a couple of my beautiful early PS2 locomotives are failing -- even when I haven't run the locomotives for a year or more. The PS3 boards seem more robust. Also, the PS3 locomotives don't need batteries. The J&W capacitor batteries work well; unfortunately, the J&W battery replacements don't prevent older sound boards from failing. Fortunately, even if the sound boards and, sometimes, the speakers go kaput, the motor, smoke, coupler, etc. control boards still seem to work. I haven't pre-ordered MTH, Lionel, or Atlas locomotives in years because I have enough locomotives.
Not to worry, things will carry on.
Put foam padding on all of the floors around your model railroad if you might be dropping locomotives.
You have to run the MTH locomotives for a long time without oil or lube to wear out the parts.
LEDs are going to last a long time.
What you need the most are new traction tires.
Andrew
Heck I buy NIB MTH's diesels that were in the catalogs 10+ years ago in some cases. At big dollar amounts because they are cool and hard to find. No warranty but I don't mind.
I'm probably dumb but I never turn in warranty cards on any of my MTH's regardless of how I get them.
Been experimenting with the MRC Prodigy for DCC control. Runs both the MTH PS 3 and Atlas diesels quite well. We are definitely a little spoiled myself included!
Chuck
As to buying MTH engines I am on hold until I see how support for DCS and parts pan out once MTH as we know it are gone.
@Nycfan posted:As to buying MTH engines I am on hold until I see how support for DCS and parts pan out once MTH as we know it are gone.
I am also waiting for news about dcs and parts. If MTH lives on in some sense, I will likely go mostly dcs and railking imperial/scale.
****, I'll still buy MTH. I just bought my first MTH Premiere engine (well its non powered) to complete my Santa Fe 3751 Employee Appreciation train.
@jjm posted:While I see the appeal of buying stuff you like, with the imminent demise of MTH, is buying new wise? No ability to make warranty claims. No parts sources. No service. Just seems like a bad bet, especially at full price. I guess you could express the same concerns about buying used, but at least you are not buying used at full price.
MTH is honoring warranty repairs after they close, through their ASC folks. The technology portion is breaking off into another company and there will still be repairs from there, as well as advancements. On a video forum earlier this week, it was said that a sale to a group of investors was reportedly close.
Just received my latest new MTH SD70ACe this morning. I wanted to get one last new MTH engine from their last published catalog. As reliable as all of my MTH engines are, I have no worries with this purchase. Also, it's under warranty, and when warranties expire, there will always be experienced techs out there to fix them. MTH's new tech offshoot will provide us with the parts down the road.
@John Ptak posted:MTH is honoring warranty repairs after they close, through their ASC folks. The technology portion is breaking off into another company and there will still be repairs from there, as well as advancements. On a video forum earlier this week, it was said that a sale to a group of investors was reportedly close.
Yes, MTH has said it would honor warranties. How else could they convince people to pay retail for new stuff? But, as pointed out by several tech repair people in this thread and elsewhere, MTH's capability of supplying parts and compensating those who do the repairs is in question. MTH remains tight-lipped about potential future plans, creating a swirl of speculation.
Might be best to buy new stuff with a credit card that offers purchase protection and extended warranty. Might not get your engine fixed, but it might get your money back.
As a 2 rail guy, I liked that MTH had 2 rail scale engines and cars.
I have bought lots of additional MTH this year....never had to use their warranty so who cares? Many of their roads and engines and cars will NEVER be produced by Lionel, so get them while you can or pay more later on ebay.
If I look at my recent purchase, MTH is doing quite well. Are they really shutting down???? Asking for a friend.
John
@rdj92807 posted:I have bought lots of additional MTH this year....never had to use their warranty so who cares? Many of their roads and engines and cars will NEVER be produced by Lionel, so get them while you can or pay more later on ebay.
I've never paid more on eBay for MTH. Usually it quite the opposite. I wish some of the ones I want to sell were actually going for closer to what I paid for them originally.
I pre-ordered two of the BNSF Heritage ES44AC's and just bought an ATSF SD45 (all with scale wheels). I'm optimistic that the DCS/Proto-3 part of the company will live on somewhere. Worst case scenario I just switch my scale-wheel engines over to DCC.
The beauty of market forces is if MTH or whatever exists after does not support what has been created over the last 25 years, some wonderful, ambitious American will seize the opportunity in one shape or form and create support options to fill that void.
I expect some really smart electrical engineer to develop a plug and play product that can easily be installed in any pre-bluetooth TMCC/DCS loco and allow to be controlled via bluetooth. It’s not an if, it’s a when. IMO
@DETROIT posted:The beauty of market forces is if MTH or whatever exists after does not support what has been created over the last 25 years, some wonderful, ambitious American will seize the opportunity in one shape or form and create support options to fill that void.
I expect some really smart electrical engineer to develop a plug and play product that can easily be installed in any pre-bluetooth TMCC/DCS loco and allow to be controlled via bluetooth. It’s not an if, it’s a when. IMO
I think that is right, though I think the aftermarket would likely develop to sell expensive replacement electronics at a hefty price. Mechanical and cosmetic stuff will probably be easy.
The question at this moment is would you pay new prices for new pieces that might be orphaned and may not be capable of getting warranty service?
If there is no reliable follow on rising out MTH, what other alternative is there?
@rdj92807 posted:I have bought lots of additional MTH this year....never had to use their warranty so who cares? Many of their roads and engines and cars will NEVER be produced by Lionel, so get them while you can or pay more later on ebay.
I’ve been standing on the sidelines in this thread but I have to ask: how do you know that Lionel will NEVER (your emphasis) produce certain road names and locomotives?
Can you share some road names or locomotives that are in this list of “do not make” by Lionel?
The other question is, now that MTH is shutting down, are there road names and locomotives that will never be made because MTH won’t be around to make them and Lionel refuses to make them? That would mean there is a list of “lost” trains that will never be made!
The third question: Is Lionel refusing to make road names and locomotives that would make money for Lionel?
I’m curious about some of the interesting ramifications of your “Lionel will NEVER make” statement.
Rumblings continue that the sale is still in the works and that production is being planned thru December. MTH is certainly actively selling and producing quality products.
Has anyone asked?
@Bill Webb posted:Rumblings continue that the sale is still in the works and that production is being planned thru December. MTH is certainly actively selling and producing quality products.
Has anyone asked?
Any sources for the "rumblings"?
A check on MTH's website doesn't look very promising:
"February 2, 2021 - M.T.H. Electric Trains will be releasing several limited-edition releases of the RailKing SD70ACe Diesel/Caboose Sets in four different liveries later this Spring. These unique releases are part of a series of products representing the last M.T.H. production runs as the company concludes its 40-year history this year."
"M.T.H. Electric Trains has announced that it has sold its S Gauge tooling and molds to Scale Trains.com as part of its divestiture of tooling assets as the company prepares to shut down operations later in 2021 on the heels of M.T.H. President Mike Wolf's retirement."
and of course this announcement is still up on the website and has not been rescinded: "Columbia, Maryland, June 9, 2020 --- M.T.H. Electric Trains president Mike Wolf has announced his retirement and the closure of his business effective June 1, 2021. Below is the text of his announcement sent to the M.T.H. Electric Trains Authorized Retailer network on the evening of June 8, 2020."
and don't forget this:
"December 16, 2020 - M.T.H. Electric Trains has selected Cabin Fever Auctions as the auction company to liquidate select contents of M.T.H.'s 124,000 sq. ft. Maryland warehouse.
Cabin Fever Auctions will conduct a series of online auctions to liquidate the vast amount of factory samples, photo samples, archival inventory, and original catalog artwork contained in this huge warehouse. Also going under the hammer are numerous show and display layouts to be sold online for pickup at the warehouse."
A check of the auction house website will show that everything has sold. It's gone.
@Madockawando posted:Any sources for the "rumblings"?
A check on MTH's website doesn't look very promising:
"February 2, 2021 - M.T.H. Electric Trains will be releasing several limited-edition releases of the RailKing SD70ACe Diesel/Caboose Sets in four different liveries later this Spring. These unique releases are part of a series of products representing the last M.T.H. production runs as the company concludes its 40-year history this year."
"M.T.H. Electric Trains has announced that it has sold its S Gauge tooling and molds to Scale Trains.com as part of its divestiture of tooling assets as the company prepares to shut down operations later in 2021 on the heels of M.T.H. President Mike Wolf's retirement."
and of course this announcement is still up on the website and has not been rescinded: "Columbia, Maryland, June 9, 2020 --- M.T.H. Electric Trains president Mike Wolf has announced his retirement and the closure of his business effective June 1, 2021. Below is the text of his announcement sent to the M.T.H. Electric Trains Authorized Retailer network on the evening of June 8, 2020."
and don't forget this:
"December 16, 2020 - M.T.H. Electric Trains has selected Cabin Fever Auctions as the auction company to liquidate select contents of M.T.H.'s 124,000 sq. ft. Maryland warehouse.
Cabin Fever Auctions will conduct a series of online auctions to liquidate the vast amount of factory samples, photo samples, archival inventory, and original catalog artwork contained in this huge warehouse. Also going under the hammer are numerous show and display layouts to be sold online for pickup at the warehouse."
A check of the auction house website will show that everything has sold. It's gone.
MTH Dealers have said that they have production planned through the end of the year. They have new announcements every week or every other week.
If there was some sort of a deal going on behind the scenes there's no way it would be made public until it is finalized. I hope there is something like that actually happening. So I am hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
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