The simple truth is they won't be working years from now like our old Lionel's.I have had several high ticket items both MTH and Lionel in for repair...the repair was almost as much as the item,the more stuff you cram in the more it can go bad....don't misunderstand, i love all the bells and whistles just wish they were more durable....my 2 cents...all the best...joe

I understand joe krasko.

 

This electronics problem is only going to get worse as things age and manufacturers and suppliers go out of business.  I recently sold all my trains to downsize.  I am already thinking of restarting a small layout (everyone told me I would) and I think I am only going to have engines with simple mechanicals. Maybe a DCRU  for forward and reverse.

I see a lot of postwar engines for sale at quite reasonable prices.

 

I know there are lots of repair people available to help me fix a 50 yrs old engine.

And, a lot cheaper to repair.  When I was a kid and got my 1947 Lionel Berkshire set I could repair everything on it, and probably did.

That to me is my future in Toy and model trains.

From only a personal view and what I have encountered. I still have some HO and N items with electronics, sound, smoke, etc. Have never had a failure, and they still run. On my "O" scale items, its a 50/50 thing with almost every engine having a problem, or need to replace something.

I enjoy my "O" items, but with boards being bigger, same for the smoke units, and now seeing many features of steam whistles and depleting coal in tenders in HO. You would think larger would also increase better and reliable running??  I bet the HO will have a better reliability factor then "O" scale items.

Its seriously were I will be looking at what I have and re-considering my path into possible going back to HO.

 

Just install a different operating system like people do now. or a simple reverse board. These trains mechanically will last fifty or more years. 

99.999% of the younger generation is going to/doesn't care about toy trains much less parts to repair them.

 

There are plenty of folks that have early Lionel command stuff that still runs as good as it did out of the box.

 

At this point in time, there are more parts available than most folks think. There is an assumption that there is zero parts availability for newer stuff and thats just plain false.

 

I think its better to enjoy your trains now, than to worry about 50 years from now. There are dozens of items you probably currently own ( some far more expensive than trains), TV's appliances, automobiles etc that will likely not be operating 50 years from now or have parts.

 

As far as those who may "inherit" ones trains, in most cases I'd bet most family members do not share the interest. Theres a reasonable chance many items would be sold off with no regard to value, operation or parts.

 

IMO there are "better" things one can worry about, toy trains are supposed to be an escape from the worrys of daily life.

 

Not every 50 year old locomotive made still runs, as Lee Willis once stated " what you are seeing are the survivors".

 

 

I have purchased four nonfunctional Legacy locomotives over the past several years and had them converted to conventional runners. Each was bought for less than $100, and I invested ~$50 ea. for parts and labor.  While boards and electronics will inevitably fail, properly maintained motors will probably be fine for a very long time.  I see the coming years as a goldmine for "recycling" toasted locomotives.

This is an interesting question on a much talked about subject. If you're asking if someone is going to make exact reproduction boards for these trains I would say the answer is most likely "No" as there really isn't much collector value in new trains because the manufacturers keep increasing details and features.

 

"new trains new electronics so what happens when they fail??"

 

IMHO, one has 3 options when a board fails: #1) sell item as is and let someone else worry about the repair/part out the locomotive #2) repair it, or #3) use it for display purposes only as Lee Willis did.

 

I believe some type of board will always be available to repair these trains but unfortunately they don't come cheap.

 

Posted by josef:

"From only a personal view and what I have encountered. I still have some HO and N items with electronics, sound, smoke, etc. Have never had a failure, and they still run. On my "O" scale items, its a 50/50 thing with almost every engine having a problem, or need to replace something."

 

That's something I always suspected which is that the boards used in HO and N are of a better quality than O gauge. I am not saying it's true just something I suspect because there seems to be a lot more failures in O gauge. Again I don't have any concrete evidence just a perception. And what feeds my perception is that the HO and N guys wouldn't stand for it but here in O gauge if Lionel or MTH makes a enthusiast upset after the other company there really isn't anywhere they can go. 

 

Or maybe it is just the lower amperage rating in HO and N makes it easier for the boards to work longer than the same boards in O.

 

Knock on wood, I have yet to have a O Gauge board fail. Motors yes and wiring problems but not a total failure of the board. Maybe they are not as unreliable as we think they are?

Every HO site I've been on includes cooked decoder boards, and setting up issues too.

 They really don't use much in the way of proprietary systems in other scales anymore.

Our use of ac in O brings bugs to the table they don't really deal with. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

DCC being a common factor among more scales of trains has helped it catch up.

But I think TMCC helped everyone the most.

 

 I think you will have both "save & repair", and "replace with newer electronics" in the future for repairs.

 A "re-pop" of a simple board? Maybe, but more likely someone would make their own. 

 

Just like any other part, if you can use it to build another, maybe its worth saving.

 My Box O' Boards, only has a train Sound of Steam board in, but I keep many other boards for parts, repair, and later reuse.

 

 

Personally, I'm not worried about replacement parts for the electronics portion of my trains. I think there will always be something available to replace any bad parts with, just as there is now. It may be a new and improved version, but I there will be something. If there is a demand there will be options. If the hobby is still around, we will have something to make repairs with.

I know one thing.At least here in Cleveland,It's not parts that is the problem.It is finding someone to work on them.You take a Legacy or JLC engine to any of the local hobby shops for repair,they look at you like you are crazy!Even Lionel does not want to work on them anymore.When they die,throw them out and get a new one just like your TV or refrigerator.Nick

This sounds about right...

 

Jeff Davis

I run conventional so I don't have that problem. I can add a simple E unit or a bridge rectifier for forward only. For sound I use RS4,mounted in the engine or a dummy. If something interests me I will buy up the dysfunctional engine,modify it cheaply and run it. 

 

Dale H

Enjoy your trains for the present time. I simply cannot worry about their ability to run in the future. I'm sure there will be something out there to make them work when current electronics are obsolete.

Train prices today are no different than they were for our parents when the got us our first sets and  I don't think they worried about the trains lasting long into the future.

Enjoy

romiller

Everything electronic these days is built to be disposable. The only thing that displeases me is that compared to my toaster, coffee machine, radios, DVD player cell phone, and TV set, trains are more expensive items to throw in the garbage. I guess to save them you can just buy an eUnit , electronic horn/sound board and run conventional. I have always run conventional. You put in the smoke fluid, set the transformer, watch the trains run, and occasionally blow the horn or whistle. What could be easier?  Simple operation, easy to repair and rock solid reliability.

I repair those too

1995 TMCC 2380 GP9

1995 TMCC  SD-50

1996 TMCC F3 A-B

2000 TMCC Century Club 773 Hudson

etc..etc.. like a Phantom set, a couple more GPs....   then current day stuff:

 

Legacy Hudson

Legacy Daylight Cab Forward

 

My TMCC base and handheld are my originals from 1995.

 

Everything works, whether 21 years old or 2 years old.

 

Sure, I throw traction tires now and then, and need to do some smoke tube (blow down the stack) maintenance now and then.

 

One thing I do yearly is open them up and make sure the pc boards and traces are not oxidized, wires not pinched, and all boards seated well.

 

My experience has been similar with my three MTH rail-king PS2 that I started buying in 2004.

 

 

Besides all that:  I am not worried if my trains will run 50 years from now.   I most likely won't be here.

 

 

 I run all DCS ps2 and ps3. Some of my engines needed pre- duty service but nothing serious and never a board failure but i know it can happen. But between the DCS pundits on this forum ( i am estimating a 95 or better percent success rate if you have a problem) and MTH repair an update kits my response to"new trains new electronics so what happens when they fail" is "i ain't scared".

 

You can easily predict support for fancy electronics by checkng out things that are mass produced, like TV sets.  We found that when the TV craps out, it is cheaper to buy a new one.

 

The aviation industry is a slightly larger market than model trains.  We all have these neat little hand-held GPS units.  When one breaks (and they do break) we ship it to the factory, and they pretend to fix it, sending us a brand new unit for the repair charge.

 

My favorite GPS is the 295.  When they go dead there is no hope.  You drop it in the electronics recycling and get a newer model.  Parts are not available.

 

Likewise radios.  The very best radio out there is a portable Icom, and they do not make them anymore.  They will not fix them either.

 

The model train market is so much smaller than any of these - when your electronics break, it is time to upgrade.

 

 

That got me thinking about mini & micro electronics vs the larger cases.

 

The chances of me throwing it away when its cooked just easily doubled

I have had absolutely atrocious luck with locomotives!

Out of the 10 I have purchased, only 5 have made it 9 months without needing help!

 

I am not impressed with the reliability of these things at all.

Now, if I can just stop myself from buying any more of the silly things!

new trains new electronics so what happens when they fail??

 

new paper weight?

Send them to me (free of course)

 

You'll still have a DC motor in them, gut the engine except for the motor, and run DC to the outer rails and center rail.  You'll no longer have all the bells and whistles (literally) but your engine will run.

 

OR

 

Convert them to BPRC (Battery-Powered, Remote-Control) like I converted all my steamers (using a system from RCS in Australia) if you want wireless control (I have ZERO wires on my layout now).  I've converted 7 steam engines since May this year, MTH, Williams brass, and a Weaver/scratchbuilt 4-6-0.  My Williams brass N&W 4-8-4 Class J (all 14 pounds of it) runs fine on a 11.1v LiPo battery.  Right now I have no sound, but an engine with dead electronics has no sound either.

 

Of course the RC electronics will die too, but I expect there will always be something else to take its place, if not, revert back to my first suggestion   DC motors will be around for a while.

I only have two tmcc type engines and one dcs.  I have never ran them.  They came in collections with other stuff.  The idea of having an engine with the modern day features does intrigue me.  Seeing them operate at shows and club runs is awesome.  However, I am unsure how I would react to some of the electronic problems listed in these forums.  Probably like a two year old beating the floor with my fists.

I've looked at some of the basic electronic e-units and they look fairly repairable.  Once you get custom chips on the board, its a big problem.  Electronics manufacturers will often buy up all end of life chip inventory to guarantee future supply.  I'm not sure how the big three train mfrs approach that issue.  Their chips are usually copyrighted, so the third party would need a license to make replacement boards.
As long as the motors are good, you should be able to salvage the engine with an after market Elec e-unit.  However, I would be upset loosing all the other features.
I think i would approach the high end engine purchase like any other electronic item, looking at failure rates and customer service/repair centers.

P.S. all of my old Lionel postwar and mpc still work flawless and I repair them when they break. (I didn't need to mention that, did I)

NO WORRIES HERE!

 

      With all the stuff I have acquired in the last thirty years, I am the one who is most likely to fail, it would be impossible to wear out or get tired of all the rolling stock I have . Engines , if I had one or two a year fail , I would have more trouble , making it to the train room before I ran out! Bottom line don't worry about trains that might break, HAVE FUN NOW BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BREAK ! and the trains will still be there.

 

LIFE IS SHORT MAKE THE MOST OF IT AND ALLWAYS EAT YOUR DESERT BEFORE YOUR MEAL! TECHMAN  

Bob Delbridge beat me to it--but when he's out of space you all can start forwarding those free locos to me.

 

I can rip out electronics with the best of them, and then i can either wire the engine to run conventional, or convert it to radio control.

 

Jeff C

This subject comes up periodically, and I keep seeing these postings, "Help! My two

thousand dollar gee-whiz turned into a brick!".  That has scared me away from any

of the electronic stuff, BUT even the simple stuff like RMT RDC's have boards in them.

You can, of course, go back to the products of the fifties, but few of those were actually good models.   A quandary....Good scale model, or a train that runs like

old Marx??  I have said on here before it is odd that the new autos, from at least some

import sources, run trouble free racking up 100K while loaded with electronics...and

the TV's do seem to last a while...mine have....

Some guy had actually done just that on a recent episode of I Love Toy Trains I saw on TV. He wasn't converting electronic engines though, they were all older conventional units. 

 

All of my electronic stuff has been pretty reliable so far, so I can't complain. If it breaks I will probably go back with replacement electronics. Command control is a big part of the fun of it for me and also a big reason for getting back into the hobby a few years ago.

Every time I repair dead electronics I wonder if I'd be better off gutting them and running 12 VDC.....still possible.

Let me add to my statement by saying I choose to replace my PS2 electronics with BPRC, I had ZERO failures with PS2.

 

I ran my PS2 trains pretty regularly.  The folks who have failures, are they running the wheels off their trains (high mileage) or are most of the failures straight out of the box?

 

Now that I think about it, only 1 (RK Imperial 0-6-0) of the 7 steamers I have came new with PS2, 1 was converted to PS2 from Locosounds (RK 2-8-0), 1 had been gutted by the previous owner (another RK 2-8-0), 1 was only a brass chassis that I built a boiler for (Weaver 4-6-0), and the other 3 were Williams brass Crown Edition engines (2-8-2, 4-6-2, 4-8-4) with reverse boards.  So, 6 out of 7 have upgrade kits in them.

 

The only problem I've had with an engine with factory installed PS2 or TMCC was a RK NW2 that had an intermittent problem.  I traced it to a strand of wire that was periodically grounding out on the chassis when the trucks swiveled around a curve, on straights it performed fine.

 

The 2-8-0 with Locosounds didn't like cold weather.  When my layout was in the garage if it got below 50 degrees I had to turn the heater on and wait 30+ minutes for the layout room to warm up enough so I could reverse direction.  When I brought the layout indoors the problem went away.

 

Could the upgrade kits be more rugged than the factory installed systems, or are the people they're using to install them at the factory not doing it right???  Are they being rushed to produce, not properly trained, or is there a sinister plot to undermine all the train operators of the world

There are a small number of people on this board who have the skills and ability to repair the electronics. Whether the cost of the repair will make it worth doing is another matter.

If I was into running trains with electronics, I'd be certain to have my wiring set up with the proper circuit breakers and surge protectors. If feasible, I'd put surge protectors right in the locomotives and other items with electronics. (Why don't the toy train manufacturers do that?)

 

My preference is for trains without electronics, but I do have a few pieces that have them.

 

As long as there is a market for replacement parts, someone will be producing them. How many post war replacement parts are made by Lionel today? Not many, most are made by third parties. Same with electronics today. If your TMCC engine breaks, Electric RR can get running again. MTH has DCS replacements as well.

With the cost of new engines reaching into the stratosphere, you can repair your existing engine for a fraction of the cost of replacing it. If you can replace existing electronics with a diode bridge as some have suggested, you can replace it with proper electronics. It may look more complicated but its really only a matter of a few more wires. The manuals are very well done just take it a step at a time Try one a see for yourself.

 

Pete

It's not going to be an insuperable problem for all the reasons mentioned.  Just enjoy today and let tomorrow take care of itself. 

This is a point that nobody's addressed...

 

Personally, I wonder how likely it is our successors will actually care if the electronic boards in secondhand locomotives are original, assuming they do all (or most of) the stuff the original boards did. The market already is heavily slanted toward operators moreso than collectors, otherwise we'd be having heated discussions over say, the ethics of putting TMCC boards in Protosound-1 locomotives.

 

---PCJ

I have repaired many 1990's TMCC locomotives, and upgrades will doubtless be available for some time.  I think this is an issue that is being over-thought.

 

trainrat,

Surely you have a comment to add. You've been a member quite a while. 

I don't know.  What happens when your cell phone drops?

 

Been there, done that, bought a new cell phone.  There is no repairing cell phones, at least not unless you have a lot of expensive equipment. 

 

However, with the current electronics in command locomotives, most can be repaired or the electronics replaced.  I suppose at some point down the road, the whole package will become "throwaway" like so much other stuff in our society...

 

You have a choice:  worry about what may happen to the electronics at some time in the future, or enjoy the operational flexibility thaty command control gives.  I've been running trains for 74 years, and I find the current locos are a vast improvement over the old Lionels, of which I have quite a few that I never use, or (2) have upgraded with electronics.

 

Since you have posted on the forum, you have a computer.  The same considerations apply.  I assume you don't run IBMDOS or MSDOS.

Just a thought spurred by John's comment. We throw away enough food in the USA to feed a significant proportion of the world's starving population. I would worry more about that than throwing away toy trains or toy trains becoming less functional .

 

 

 

 

 I admit to using command prompts three times in the last week, and haven't ever used command on my TMCC trains. Sounds stay low, or just plain off .

 I have added B.Rectifiers, diodes, l.e.d.s, cap.s, to the old, and PW tech to the new.

What ever is convenient and works.

  

 

I see most responses are dealing with the electronic boards and part failures when applicable. and seems to be the main focus on this discussion. also that most not having electronics failures.

 

but as we all know only so many sacrificial engines are disassembled for parts for warranty repairs and for those of us preferring to repair our own after warranty.

 

and after so much time some of these parts are shown as unavailable on which ever manufactures web page you are looking for said part/s. now if your smoke unit assembly gets damaged  somehow and one not available to replace it then as delivered just went poof. or any of the other main assemblies that only the original will perform as it was built.

 

or as in the case with shay locomotives the piston assembly we all love to watch working self destructs itself there are no replacements nor an aftermarket to get one so all the motors electronic boards will not aid in its being nothing other than a shelf queen.

 

herein lies my original question when a key part is no longer available and one cannot be fixed you now have a at the time of purchase a very expensive shelf queen. so what do you do ? look at it with fond memories or sell off for parts to reclaim some of our disposable dollars.

 

and yes we can repurchase another newer item as its replacement and enjoy but whom is the winner??

 

side step for a second..... if you have a 15 year old vehicle you can get replacement parts for all major components as built. so ask yourselves this why not for our trains?

 

the cost is certainly not as high but yet at 2014 $2000 for a locomotive that in time major components render it a high dollar shelf queen why??

 

yes we can apply aftermarket motors and whatever else but if it no longer has the working features it was designed with sorry it is not the same period and this just seems wrong in a way.

 

 yes we are in a disposable world if broken toss it! ironic when I see fellow train buffs here still have the old pw items and some run as is others upgraded to run in a command control environment.

 

must be my years adding up as I find myself questioning more why I buy high dollar toss away items?

 

I respect your view points on this its the reason were all on the forum we all have our thoughts and opinions on this and other train related matters.

 

end result we power up our layouts and find an escape where time and money just float away into a peaceful time and place.

 

 

 

If you are looking for parts for steam engines including shays and the manufacturer lists it as NLA then check out the Precision Scale Catalog. Between PSC and other manufacturers you should be able to find what your need. Obsure parts like Baker Valve gear or NYC PT tender beams have been sourced from PSC. Eccentric rods for a 3rd Rail engine sourced from Lionel.

Finding exact replacement gears have been a little more challenging.

 

Pete

I would respectfully disagree on this statement. Toy trains lasting has not been a recent thing. Steve Eastman and I have discovered this when we were starting our Dorfan project. There are no parts out there to speak of, a few little things yes, but not the major items. We decided to re-motor shells that would have been shelf queens at best or in the trash. I received on 51 shell that was poorly packaged and stepped on by the shipper which broke it into over 25 pieces.

 

I could have given up but instead took it as a challenge. I rebuilt the shell using JB Weld and brass to fit a pullmor motor. I was able to install an original reverse switch and keep the pull apart function. At the TTOS Convention it ran well but then the pullmor motor brushplate failed. I found a replacement motor while waiting on the other for repair and this little Dorfan 51 runs just like it did back in 1924. Yes, the motor is different by the essential functions are the same. 

 

Nothing lasts forever but when I was a kid my family never had money so whatever I had usually needed to be fixed and that is how I got into Lionel trains. My first Lionel was a 2055 that was not running. I fixed it and got hooked on the sights and smells. I really enjoy the new electronic stuff but I am also cursed with it. More often that not whatever I have bought lately is defective. I just have bad Karma i suppose. Once I get it running and fixed all is well. 

 

I really believe that anything can be fixed but it takes a large effort to stick it out until you find the solution. Not easy in our small hobby but it can be done. No matter what we do something will break so run'em while ya got 'em and fix'em when you have to.

quote:

I would respectfully disagree on this statement. Toy trains lasting has not been a recent thing. Steve Eastman and I have discovered this when we were starting our Dorfan project. There are no parts out there to speak of, a few little things yes, but not the major items.

 

Dorfan: no

Lionel: yes.

 

Between small outfits making parts, people cannibalizing trains in lesser condition, and ingenuity, most Lionel trains are repairable. I assume the availability of parts is due to a combination of Lionel being the most popular brand, and their reuse of the same part in many different trains.

In my experience, the availability of parts for what is probably the second most popular brand, Gilbert American Flyer, pales in comparison.

As long as there is a Gunrunner out there, there will be trains running... probably with better controls and features than as built.

Jon

Only two areas of concern for me on train electronics.

1-Electrolytic capacitors which I see on most all the boards.  These are guaranteed to fail in time.  The failure is usually linked to hours in service.  People who leave their computers on all the time or in sleep mode see this sooner than those that don't.  Those who use an outlet strip and completely turn off AC to the computer when not in use increase their capacitors life significantly. 

Prime culprit of failure is poor electrolyte coating, and the second cause is poor circuit design.  A good cap mfr will use a better coating and spacing.  They also cost more.  Ask Dell, IBM and Abit.  They had huge recalls after buying cheap capacitors to use on their computer motherboards. Most use tantalum caps now which are far superior to electrolytic caps.  They are also more expensive and have size limitations.

Designing the circuit with high ripple current or using low voltage caps will hasten their demise as well.  The usual failure indicator is intermittent circuit failures which will become more consistent as the cap further degrades.  You can look at the top of the cap and it should be flat.  If it is rounded, bulging, or has a tan/dark colored residue on the top then I would immediately start looking for replacement options.  These can usually be replaced fairly easy.  I would recommend bumping the voltage rating on the replacement cap and buying a name brand capacitor.

 

2- Custom ICs or chips.  This is where the majority of the train "function" is controlled.  These are usually in the form of a PLCC module in a socket or may be soldered down as a leadless chip carrier, LCC.  An LCC is usually in the form of a QFN or BGA part.  These are extremely difficult to repair without some very expensive equipment.  Nicer packages such as SOIC and QFP are difficult but easier to replace.  It all comes down to having the new replacement part of course.  If it's a PLCC module then it is likely a common programmable part, but you need the original train mfr code (usually copyrighted) and a programming machine.  Many mfrs will remove the IC markings on even common chips and put their own part number on it.

Most everything else is diodes, transistors, resistors etc, and usually there are equal or better parts available to use in the board repair.

You can also try to find a similar engine to cannibalize, which hopefully does not have the same bad board as yours.

 

It might be wise to ask the train mfrs how long they intend to stock replacement boards for these engines.  They are advancing the designs all the time.  It would also be nice if their newer designs were backwards compatible, which is another good question to ask.

 

As a bare minimum you still have the bulk of the engine in good shape.  You have the chassis, drive train and motors.  You should be able to put a electronic e-unit in and possibly some aftermarket board to control smoke and some other functions.  You may lose some of the original features, but the engine should be able to perform very well.

 

You are correct about aluminum electrolytic capacitors failing over time.  However, the incident you refer to was a bit of an anomaly, that was the Capacitor Plague that struck many of the capacitor manufacturers that were using Taiwanese raw materials.  This was eventually attributed to some industrial espionage that resulted in an incomplete formula for the capacitor electrolyte.  I don't know that this was ever conclusively proven, but that was the story at the time.  I lived through that era as I was heavily involved in computers and networking, they were dropping like flies.  Here's one of the Capacitor Plague stories that were everywhere at the time.  I have no reason to believe it's not true, as there was certainly something very wrong with many of the capacitors of that era.

 

The idea of using tantalum capacitors instead of aluminum is not practical, look up the price of an aluminum 330uf 35V capacitor and a tandalum 330uf 35V capacitor and make sure you're sitting down!

 

Panasonic EEU-FM1V331L $0.60 each.

Vishay 135D337X9035T2 $76.06 each.

 

 

 

Norton... thanks for the heads up to that website maybe i can get this shay running again seeing I created a logging line for this engine on my layout.

 

even in the 50's when capacitors were round axial leads and then coated with wax ,still lasted a while but some of them shorted and then exploded out the end of the capacitor thank god we have come a long way for better electronic parts and more dependable thanks to the space shuttle exploration to produce reliable smaller parts and at a cheaper cost.

I saw many a capacitor when the end blew out and the foil unraveled all over inside the electronics TV's and radio, looked like a streamer from a kite.then surface mount components came out the price dropped and electronics were becoming much cheaper to by, remember the first calculators cost over $120.00 now  you can buy them $20.00 or so

Alan

I sent an MTH with proto-3 in for repair, assuming that the best service would be from MTH in Maryland.  The repair was made, but it took 5 months to get a board replaced.  I should have found an authorized repair center in hind sight - I will next time.  I will be retiring in a couple of years and have considered taking the training and becoming an authorized MTH repair center myself if for no other reason than to be able to repair my own engines. Still considering.

If independent repairmen/women can learn to copy the MTH chip data to a new chip (could be password protected I guess or copyright issues) then the boards themselves could be repaired/built with existing components available on the internet.  I think the key would be the firmware on the IC chip and being able to copy it to a new one.

 

 

Completely unacceptable!

 

David

Once I start running trains again, I'm not gonna worry too much.  GRJ lives about 30 minutes away!!!  

 

David

Re the thread title?...

 

For me and my house?....

 

 

 

The allure of 2-rail command is ever-present.   NMRA standards for DCC componentry and operating systems...Nirvana.  This Beta/VHS-type 'war' we've tolerated and succumbed to in O3R.....  

 

Which is why my 'back-to-the-future' O3R operating system is, and always will be, C-O-N-V-E-N-T-I-O-N-A-L. 

 

But, that's just MHO, of course. 

 

When I have to go to Angie's List to find the repair of my hobby items....l'm all done. 

 

'And that's a fact, Jack!'

 

No can do.  Any modern embedded uP product line allows you to lock the access to the contents when you program the chip, and I've never seen a major manufacturer that doesn't enable that protection.

That would be very handy indeed! Unfortunately, I am about 1,100 miles or so away, give or take a few miles...

I once had a 1978 International Scout 4x4, what we would call an SUV today, 345 c.i. V8, 2 barrel carb, dual exhausts, automatic and part time 4wd. The only electronics were the ignition and radio! It was heavy and overbuilt and got 15 mpg.

 

In 2002 a friend had a 2 door Ford Explorer similar in size to my old Scout. His had computerized fuel injection and other engine controls, V6, 5 speed, part time 4wd and a lot less weight. I asked him what kind of MPG he got out of it. 15.

Sometimes high tech makes things better, sometimes it doesn't. when technology works it's great.  When it doesn't, it's  pain in the you know where.

 

Can you get parts for that old Scout today? maybe, but chances are it doesn't need near the support the Ford will need in 30 years. If you have an old car that's popular like a '57 Chevy or '32 Ford there are repro parts out the wazoo. Not so much for a '63 Rambler. I imagine it will be like that for trains. Still a lot support for post war and some prewar O gauge. Perhaps there will be a cottage industry making parts for today's electronic trains.

 

Or perhaps the world will end next month and no one will care about any kind of train! 

 

...for which Northwest Shortline has never let me down.  Very accommodating folks.

 

Those pesky but gorgeous MTH scale crossing gates and flashers?....the ones that have the slo-mo gates that quit working after awhile?....found out that NWSL has the exact tiny gear to replace the split plastic (what else?) drive gear on the motor shaft....and it's made of BRASS!!!!.  Bada-bing, bada-boom!

 

Mechanical things?....never have been a stumbling block.

 

Electronics?.........

 

Again, just MHO.

 

KD

I would say that there is a time when the electronics fail, not if, and if any of my small collection shows symptoms, there will be mass bypassing direct to the locomotion parts.

I'm not interested in replacing ever-older parts with OEM spares that only become more expensive as they become obsolete.

Using a serious after-market modular electronics supplier out there, (such as Dallee for example) I think would be the way to go for those who wish to retain/replace their electronic effects.

For me, I'm a conventional ops guy who would probably go with a DC system or replacement rectifiers and e-units in the end. I'm new-ish to 3 rail, so I'm not knowledgable on the AC/DC universal motor dates for post-war stuff. Staying with AC if I had a sizable investment in transformers would be smart, I guess.

 

I emailed them but got no response. They probably have a gear that would work but trying to translate what I have with what they list will take some time. I'm an EE with a fair amount of mechanical knowledge but never became fluent in gear terminology.

 

Pete

Why even contemplate tossing?  It's reasonable to expect that there will, when and if you have a failure, be newer and more advanced electronics available.  When PS1 became obsolete, there came along PS2&3.  When e-units failed, we got electronic reverse units.  If you've got the $$ to spend on a $1200 model loco, what's a few hundred to keep it running another10-20 years?

Pete...

 

CALL them.  (Old tech, I know)  They will help you with the gear-speak.  They are friendly/helpful folks!

 

Their website has some basic gear-defining info.  If you have appropriate measuring devices available (e.g., Vernier calipers, micrometer, machinists scale, etc.), it'll make the job easier, the discussion more accurate. 

 

I've pretty much given up on posted email addresses for manufacturers in their 'Contact Us' sections of the websites.  One laser kit producer...big, famous, nice guy to talk to in person...posted an email address that I kept pushing up the hill with a rope for two years.  The next trade show we both attended, when I mentioned this to him?....'Yeah, we need to fix that....it changed a couple years ago.'   Then it happened again...although a supplier not related to the hobby.   I use telephone numbers....to hopefully talk with a real person, and to CONFIRM email, shipping address, fax numbers, etc..

 

Old tech, I know.  But so am I!

 

Just a suggestion...

 

KD

Williams, they work!