I received my new American Freedom Train and it is awesome.
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would you please post a Video and a picture of your engine so we can all enjoy!
sincerely thanks!
Alan
@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:Not to sound disrespectfu, but only God and the best president to ever run Espee, A.D. McDonald, considered the 4449 and rest of the fleet to be painted in the famous Daylight scheme, Period!
No Red, White & Blue, not black, and for heaven's sake...Never Never BNSF! Gads, what a chilling thought?
Sort of like the PINK GG1 Williams produced many years ago...
And now the 'Warbonnet' Santa Fe Acela in the new L catalog...
...which is why I find myself often running...not walking/sauntering...over to Scott Mann's 3rd Rail website for a refreshing view of sanity/dignity after seeing these... 
...of the imagination. (Mom said 'Say something nice or nothing at all!')
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This coffee needs something more this morning!... Where's the Bailey's???
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So... these Vision engines are being delivered??? Have others received them? Pics?? Reviews? Thoughts?
@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:Not to sound disrespectfu, but only God and the best president to ever run Espee, A.D. McDonald, considered the 4449 and rest of the fleet to be painted in the famous Daylight scheme, Period!
No Red, White & Blue, not black, and for heaven's sake...Never Never BNSF! Gads, what a chilling thought?
Southern Pacific, under Mr. McDonald, was truly Espee's Finest Hour!
Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's just your OPINION! As a member of the crew on 4449, since the summer of 1975, the poor locomotive would STILL be rusting away in Oaks Park, Portland, OR, if it had not been for the American Freedom Train. Personally, I don't care WHAT COLOR 4449 is painted, so long as she continues to operate. We all experienced some fantastic times with 4449, whether in red, white & blue, or red, black & orange, or gloss black (for BN), and to be honest, from my vantage point in the cab, I really didn't care WHAT COLOR she was painted!
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Don't these have the new steam cylinder effects? That would be cool to see.
@dkdkrd posted:Sort of like the PINK GG1 Williams produced many years ago...
And now the 'Warbonnet' Santa Fe Acela in the new L catalog...
...which is why I find myself often running...not walking/sauntering...over to Scott Mann's 3rd Rail website for a refreshing view of sanity/dignity after seeing these...
This coffee needs something more this morning!... Where's the Bailey's???
I just added the Warbonnet Acela to my list from the catalog. One, I think it's cool, and two, because it irrationally makes people angry that it's being offered 
Others I have:
Daylight Cab Forward, Black Bonnet SF pulling SuperChief pax cars, and a modern version Girls Train.
Genoz, that’s a beautiful set, thank you for the video, it’s really nice. Happy Railroading
@EscapeRocks posted:I just added the Warbonnet Acela to my list from the catalog. One, I think it's cool, and two, because it irrationally makes people angry that it's being offered
LOL. I like that thinking!
@EscapeRocks posted:I just added the Warbonnet Acela to my list from the catalog. One, I think it's cool, and two, because it irrationally makes people angry that it's being offered
Irrationally perfectly describes it.
That's a sharp looking train @Genoz. Looks great and sounds great!
@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:dkdkrd, you bet, a visit to Scott Mann's 3rd Rail site is Pure Pleasure O scale, and the S gauge boys aren't left out either. They can enjoy SP steam on the River Raisin site as well!
Joe
The closest you'll get to a GS4 from River Raisin is one of these...
Which in OK by me, I prefer the MT-4/5 over the GS4 anyway.
Rusty
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Is the Mars light working?
Beautiful engine, Genoz... while I love the Daylight scheme (I have one from the last Legacy run), I think the Freedom Train scheme was the classiest of all the Bicentennial schemes. Is that the late 40’s Freedom Train on the upper level??? If so, that’s a great pairing. Thanks for sharing.
@MartyE posted:Is the Mars light working?
Didn't look like it. Plus, why the green class lights?????
@Hot Water posted:Didn't look like it. Plus, why the green class lights?????
Probably because the look "pretty" and no one at Lionel understands the meaning of class lights.
Rusty
@Hot Water posted:Didn't look like it. Plus, why the green class lights?????
@Rusty Traque posted:Probably because the look "pretty" and no one at Lionel understands the meaning of class lights.
Rusty
The operator can change those to white or turn them off using the CAB2.
@MartyE posted:The operator can change those to white or turn them off using the CAB2.
Marty is correct on the class light color(s). While a relatively new feature, it has been/will be rolled into the new engines as Dave demonstrated with his recent Facebook Live sessions.
Charlie
thanks for posting the video of your new engine and cars, it's really beautiful!
Alan
Love the green class lights - also the option to change the color - good job Lionel
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The previous video I found out by holding the aux 1 button on Cab 2 all the smoke bells and whistles were started with the motion. Having lots of fun discovering functions! Oh the reason for the vertical aspect is so you don’t see stuff!
Wow! I’ve got mine (SP Lines 4449 to match my 18” aluminum SP Lines passenger cars from a number of years back) on order from Charlie Ro, hopefully will be seeing it soon! Where did you get yours from?
I ordered it from Lionel direct !
You can compare your model against the real deal. This video was taken at the 2019 National Garden Railroad Convention in Portland, OR. NH Joe
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@Genoz posted:Oh the reason for the vertical aspect is so you don’t see stuff!
I'd rather see stuff. LOL!
Well, this proves that at least some of them are on this side of the ocean. My dealer (Nassau) told me last week that they were coming in very soon, so I expect mine to ship in a few days time. I’ve gone in for one of the GS-5 versions.
@Genoz posted:The previous video I found out by holding the aux 1 button on Cab 2 all the smoke bells and whistles were started with the motion. Having lots of fun discovering functions!
I don’t think that the manuals for these VL versions are posted online yet but you might want to check yours about switching on the light functions. In the first video the Mars (upper) headlight is off and in the second video it does not seem to be flashing. That’s not prototypical or what you get from similarly equipped Lionel steamers.
@Hancock52 posted:I don’t think that the manuals for these VL versions are posted online yet but you might want to check yours about switching on the light functions. In the first video the Mars (upper) headlight is off and in the second video it does not seem to be flashing. That’s not prototypical or what you get from similarly equipped Lionel steamers.
Pushing and holding the AUX2 button will bring up the lighting menu. The Mars light On/Off is indicated by a half shaded circle in the 4 and 7 position of the keypad.
@MartyE posted:
Thanks, I have found it. Lighting features are on p. 16 but there’s no specific text about the Mars Light. Offhand I can’t remember which of the Aux2 menu CAB2 buttons relates to it.
Looks beautiful! I can't wait for mine to arrive!
@Hancock52 posted:Thanks, I have found it. Lighting features are on p. 16 but there’s no specific text about the Mars Light. Offhand I can’t remember which of the Aux2 menu CAB2 buttons relates to it.
See my edit of my previous post. Lionel should include this in the section that deals with the marker lights. The only thing that concerns me is a forum member got a PRR Trainmaster that was supposed to have a Mars light and it didn't operate that way. Not sure if he ever good resolution.
@MartyE posted:See my edit of my previous post. Lionel should include this in the section that deals with the marker lights. The only thing that concerns me is a forum member got a PRR Trainmaster that was supposed to have a Mars light and it didn't operate that way. Not sure if he ever good resolution.
Thanks for this Marty, and I remember the PRR model issue. This is something Lionel has messed up before but you don't expect that on a VL model. I do wonder whether there is some double-tap control of the Mars button by which you can toggle the light between constantly on and flashing but in any case it should flash.
@Hancock52 posted:Thanks for this Marty, and I remember the PRR model issue. This is something Lionel has messed up before but you don't expect that on a VL model. I do wonder whether there is some double-tap control of the Mars button by which you can toggle the light between constantly on and flashing but in any case it should flash.
That is the unknown right now without a better explanation in the manual. Maybe @Dave Olson can help explain how this is working for the new VL. Maybe it is a 3 state setting. Off / On / Mars. I must admit I only have 1 engine with a MARS light and it's been a while since I had it out to remember what the operation of it is.
Genoz - Nice train and nice video but regardless of your explanation as to why you shot a 'vertical' video I hope you realize that you're now destined to get a hunk of coal in next year's Christmas stocking from either Santa or Rich Melvin or both (lol)! 
If fantasy schemes sell, I don't see the issue with them. Maybe not my taste, but what does my opinion matter on someone else's layout?
As to the topic, glad to hear you enjoy your AFT GS4. I saw the Reading T1 version when it came to the NJ shore when I was 7. It was a fun experience.
@GG1 4877 posted:If fantasy schemes sell, I don't see the issue with them. Maybe not my taste, but what does my opinion matter on someone else's layout?
Jonathan I agree 100%. I may not care for it, I can certainly voice my opinion, but in the end it's up to the folks buying them. It's their railroad they are entitled to spend their money and operate their layout as they see fit.
Why are folks still calling this a "fantasy scheme"? I guess Lionel offers so many now, its hard to tell.
( Not my video)
@DaveSlie posted:Lionel sells brand new product direct to customers now? Thats not a good way to keep your dealers & distributors happy.
They have done this for quite a while but AFAIK, from looking at the listed items online, you pay full list price.
I'd rather support a local dealer and get a discount off MSRP.
We don’t have a local dealer here and I’m too old for LA traffic!
@Genoz posted:We don’t have a local dealer here and I’m too old for LA traffic!
Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Enjoy your locomotive. Have you tried to change the MARS light operation using the CAB2 yet? In your first video it was off and the second it was on but not oscillating at least from what we could tell from the video. Does it oscillate?
Aren't all of our layouts Fantasy?
Jim
I moved and no longer have a true local hobby shop, but I still order through Legacy Station. Brian is a great guy and even with shipping, it's still going to end up less than MSRP.
Did we get any update on the MARS light being operational? Would like to see it "oscillate".
@MartyE posted:Did we get any update on the MARS light being operational? Would like to see it "oscillate".
I'd very much like to know this too. So, just a nudge in the direction of @Dave Olson, who has been so helpful on the Veranda Turbine features, in case he can enlighten us in this respect as well.
Definitely looking forward to getting mine. The only thing I wish that was different is the whistle. Was hoping the whistle was going to be more accurate considering it’s a Visionline.
@Isaac Schuster posted:Definitely looking forward to getting mine. The only thing I wish that was different is the whistle. Was hoping the whistle was going to be more accurate considering it’s a Visionline.
OK, what is not accurate about the whistle?
4449 14 years ago:
MTH PS3 GS Class whistle:
@Isaac Schuster posted:Definitely looking forward to getting mine. The only thing I wish that was different is the whistle. Was hoping the whistle was going to be more accurate considering it’s a Visionline.
You do know that there a 5 different whistles available within the locomotive. I would suspect one of them hits the mark from some of the videos I've seen.
I believe there is actually only 3 whistles. The other two are horns. At least that’s what Dave Olsen at least showed us during the demo. I should have been more specific when I said accurate. The quill range on it is very limited for this whistle. It doesn’t allow real depth like the real thing is capable of. The video I’m posting shows the range of the 4449 whistle.
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The "correct" SP 4449 whistle could be thought of as rather a contradiction in terms, considering how many whistles she has carried through the years. I'm not certain what type of whistle she carried while in service for the SP (think I saw somewhere that it was a Hancock 3-chime), although I know the air horn has been there since the beginning. I'm certain there are others here who could answer this.
Further, it should be noted that how a particular whistle sounds will change with age, steam pressure, humidity, temperature and more. Also, if you watch a video of a particular train passing, remember the doppler effect will make the whistle sound higher-pitched than it actually is. To me, of the two whistles I know for sure that this Vision model will have, one to my ear can pass for an SP 6-chime and the other for a "steamboat" style whistle (the same one as on the old Legacy 4436 release). With these two and the air horn, I'm completely satisfied. I mean, it could have been a hooter whistle knowing Lionel.
For excursion service, just listen to the variety in this video:
@Isaac Schuster posted:I believe there is actually only 3 whistles. The other two are horns. At least that’s what Dave Olsen at least showed us during the demo. I should have been more specific when I said accurate. The quill range on it is very limited for this whistle. It doesn’t allow real depth like the real thing is capable of. The video I’m posting shows the range of the 4449 whistle.
I think you're correct 3 whistles, 2 horns.
@Hancock52 posted:I'd very much like to know this too. So, just a nudge in the direction of @Dave Olson, who has been so helpful on the Veranda Turbine features, in case he can enlighten us in this respect as well.
Here's my engine from the freight set. I really like the look of the solid color pilot
Yes, the MARS is functional. It turns off with the engine in reverse. On video the "oscillating" nature of the light looks twitchy. Even looks like the light turns off. Must have something to do with shutter. In person, it's very smooth and natural.
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Uh oh, did I just commit the sin of posting a video done in portrait mode?
I'm clearly not a great camera person.
@Dave Olson posted:Uh oh, did I just commit the sin of posting a video done in portrait mode?
I'm clearly not a great camera person.
As far as I am concerned you are forgiven - but apply to Marty for absolution. Thanks for the Mars Light info, much appreciated.
Does anyone else have pictures or videos of the regular daylight scheme or GS-1s?
Just got a call from my LHS. My Visionline GS-5 and passenger cars are in!
Field trip tomorrow to the Hobby Shop. 
@Will Ebbert posted:Does anyone else have pictures or videos of the regular daylight scheme or GS-1s?
Are you asking about prototype information, or model information? Also, what do you mean by the "regular daylight scheme"? Are you aware that in 1946, the SP changed from the "Southern Pacific Lines" scheme to the large "SOUTHERN PACIFIC" scheme?
@Dave Olson I ordered the Daylight 4449 but man that war baby looks tempting as heck
@Hot Water posted:Are you asking about prototype information, or model information? Also, what do you mean by the "regular daylight scheme"? Are you aware that in 1946, the SP changed from the "Southern Pacific Lines" scheme to the large "SOUTHERN PACIFIC" scheme?
No I'm asking for pictures of the models. I mean the red, orange, and black scheme. Yes I am aware of the name change. I ordered the Southern Pacific Lines version as well as reserving 11 cars from GGD to match.
@Will Ebbert posted:No I'm asking for pictures of the models. I mean the red, orange, and black scheme. Yes I am aware of the name change. I ordered the Southern Pacific Lines version as well as reserving 11 cars from GGD to match.
OK, that's good. Now, I was not aware that Golden Gate Depot was re-running the scale SP Daylight passenger car sets, let alone in the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering. Back when I was into 3RS modeling, I had the full Golden Gate Depot Daylight passenger car set, including the articulated dinner and various articulated chair cars in the "SOUTHERN PCIFIC" lettering, pulled by the Sunset/3rd Rail black GS-4, with skirts removed. Their Daylight passenger cars are truly spectacular!
@Hot Water posted:OK, that's good. Now, I was not aware that Golden Gate Depot was re-running the scale SP Daylight passenger car sets, let alone in the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering. Back when I was into 3RS modeling, I had the full Golden Gate Depot Daylight passenger car set, including the articulated dinner and various articulated chair cars in the "SOUTHERN PCIFIC" lettering, pulled by the Sunset/3rd Rail black GS-4, with skirts removed. Their Daylight passenger cars are truly spectacular!
Honestly GGD offering that set is the only reason I bought the GS-4. I didn't want to settle for inaccurate cars, so I'm excited for correct extrusions. My 11 car consist probably won't be perfect, but pretty close nevertheless.
@Dave Olson posted:Uh oh, did I just commit the sin of posting a video done in portrait mode?
I'm clearly not a great camera person.
A mere five second video is worse than portrait mode!
@Dave Olson posted:Uh oh, did I just commit the sin of posting a video done in portrait mode?
I'm clearly not a great camera person.
Say 3 "Our Rich's" and 4 "Hail Scailrails" and then watch Avengers Endgame on your phone in portrait mode.
I would be interested in seeing more videos of all the smoke features from anyone who has one of the new GS-series.
@BC1989 posted:I would be interested in seeing more videos of all the smoke features from anyone who has one of the new GS-series.
Well, so would I, but I am also interested in knowing which of these models has actually been delivered. At present, there have been no sightings of any of the Daylight models, as far as I know, and mine (a GS5) is one of them. My dealer is unusually silent. 
@Hancock52 - I picked up my GS-5 a couple of days ago from my LHS. (Atlanta).
So how does the GS5 run? Can we see how the new smoke features perform? Sounds like it would be an awesome locomotive!
@MartyE posted:Say 3 "Our Rich's" and 4 "Hail Scailrails" and then watch Avengers Endgame on your phone in portrait mode.
I am glad my old Irish Priest is not as tough as you. One "Our Father" covers most any transgression.
@ScottV posted:@Hancock52 - I picked up my GS-5 a couple of days ago from my LHS. (Atlanta).
Thank you very much - and I hope it runs right!
Actually, if it is a Daylight, I’d be interested in seeing a photo. As usual, there are questions in people’s minds about Lionel’s latest rendition of Daylight colors.
@Will Ebbert posted:I'd rather support a local dealer and get a discount off MSRP.
My local dealer doesn't carry anything in stock that is scale and or recent. I order a decent amount straight from Lionel because you can usually find 10% promo codes if you look hard enough. I have started preordering things from my dealer but I am glad it is my choice either way.
just fyi ... Eric Siegel (Erics Trains) posted a youtube video of him picking up his Daylight (among others). The video has better lighting than my train room for color reference. The daylight version is shown starting at about the 13:00 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...LYBeawmA&t=1056s
@ScottV posted:just fyi ... Eric Siegel (Erics Trains) posted a youtube video of him picking up his Daylight (among others). The video has better lighting than my train room for color reference. The daylight version is shown starting at about the 13:00 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...LYBeawmA&t=1056s
Thank you - I have seen that now.
I'd love to see some of the black GS-1 locomotives. Let me know when they arrive. I may consider getting 4470 & 4449 down the road.
I don’t think the Mars lights oscillates, if it does I don’t know how to make it go. Aux 2 turns it off and on but this is my first new train since 1969 lol
@Genoz posted:I don’t think the Mars lights oscillates, if it does I don’t know how to make it go. Aux 2 turns it off and on but this is my first new train since 1969 lol
Press and holding AUX2 button will bring up the lighting menu where the numerical keypad is. Once displayed you can release AUX2. The Mars light On/Off is indicated by a half shaded circle in the 4 and 7 position of the keypad.
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MartyE - Once again you come through with a helpful illustration - presumably from the Owner's Manual for that engine or one like it? 
@PH1975 posted:MartyE - Once again you come through with a helpful illustration - presumably from the Owner's Manual for that engine or one like it?
1.6 Legacy Manual. Unfortunately this info is not in the engine manual but should be.
@MartyE posted:1.6 Legacy Manual. Unfortunately this info is not in the engine manual but should be.
Marty - I'm sure Genoz will be appreciative of it! 
Wow thanks Marty, the manual is badly lacking those directions. When I first opened the brand new box I thought I was missing the chip that goes into my Cab 2 for programming. So I picked up some tips on this forum however I’m was not sure if I am getting all of the benefits so you opened a new world to me. I’m excited to see if there is even more stuff! I’ve spent some time with the app and can change the whistle on it but haven’t figured out how to do it on legacy 990. Anyway it is an amazing machine unlike the old conventionals that I run.
@Genoz posted:Wow thanks Marty, the manual is badly lacking those directions. When I first opened the brand new box I thought I was missing the chip that goes into my Cab 2 for programming. So I picked up some tips on this forum however I’m was not sure if I am getting all of the benefits so you opened a new world to me. I’m excited to see if there is even more stuff! I’ve spent some time with the app and can change the whistle on it but haven’t figured out how to do it on legacy 990. Anyway it is an amazing machine unlike the old conventionals that I run.
Page 20 explains how to change the whistle/horn and bell. Push Aux1 then pull the whistle/horn slider down to change the whistle/horn. Push Aux1 and push the bell activator up to change bell.
Oh. RTFM! I fell asleep at page 17. Thanks for your help everyone.
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:Wow! I’ve got mine (SP Lines 4449 to match my 18” aluminum SP Lines passenger cars from a number of years back) on order from Charlie Ro, hopefully will be seeing it soon! Where did you get yours from?
Great! Do they match? Curious what shades of red and orange these are painted.
@BobbyD posted:Great! Do they match? Curious what shades of red and orange these are painted.
I’m very curious about this too as I may not be seeing my Daylight GS5 for a while yet and I have only found one fairly indistinct photo of a Daylight GS4 online.
On the basis of that and the Eric’s Trains video, I have concluded that this run of Daylight VLs is probably not a close match for the 2010/2005 Lionel 18” Daylight cars I have, which may be the same ones you are referring to. Three of them are shown below, in front a pair of cars from the 2010 Shasta Daylight set and behind the dining car from 2005. The colors are significantly different but in both cases are remarkably similar to the colors shown in the relevant catalogs:
The 2010 Shasta cars are noticeably more red than the earlier car although the difference doesn’t bother me much.
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@Genoz posted:Oh. RTFM! I fell asleep at page 17. Thanks for your help everyone.
Don't forget that you can toggle the class lights from Off/Green/White and off again by using the Engine Marker light control either on the main numerical keyboard or under the Aux2 lighting menu. The tender can also be toggled if equipped. Lionel has done some fantastic electronic upgrades in this last batch of Legacy engines.
@MartyE posted:Don't forget that you can toggle the class lights from Off/Green/White and off again by using the Engine Marker light control either on the main numerical keyboard or under the Aux2 lighting menu. The tender can also be toggled if equipped. Lionel has done some fantastic electronic upgrades in this last batch of Legacy engines.
Very useful tutorials, Marty, on both lighting and sound. I knew some of this stuff before but forgot!
@BobbyD posted:Great! Do they match? Curious what shades of red and orange these are painted.
@Hancock52 posted:I’m very curious about this too as I may not be seeing my Daylight GS5 for a while yet and I have only found one fairly indistinct photo of a Daylight GS4 online.
On the basis of that and the Eric’s Trains video, I have concluded that this run of Daylight VLs is probably not a close match for the 2010/2005 Lionel 18” Daylight cars I have, which may be the same ones you are referring to. Three of them are shown below, in front a pair of cars from the 2010 Shasta Daylight set and behind the dining car from 2005. The colors are significantly different but in both cases are remarkably similar to the colors shown in the relevant catalogs:
The 2010 Shasta cars are noticeably more red than the earlier car although the difference doesn’t bother me much.
I have not seen the new one yet, but from the pictures I've seen online, the new Daylight appears to be very close in color to the 2016 release, which I have. The 2016 ironically doesn't match the 2016 Daylight passenger cars, which are darker and closer in color to the 2010 18" aluminum and 2010 Alco PA, but it does work well with the lighter, creamier-colored 2005 cars. So I would expect that the Vision Daylight should work best with the 2005 18" release, but not the 2010 18" or 2016 21" cars.
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:I have not seen the new one yet, but from the pictures I've seen online, the new Daylight appears to be very close in color to the 2016 release, which I have. The 2016 ironically doesn't match the 2016 Daylight passenger cars, which are darker and closer in color to the 2010 18" aluminum and 2010 Alco PA, but it does work well with the lighter, creamier-colored 2005 cars. So I would expect that the Vision Daylight should work best with the 2005 18" release, but not the 2010 18" or 2016 21" cars.
It should be noted the 2005 cars are lettered in the early 1937-1945 scheme "Southern Pacific Lines", while the later Shasta cars are post 1945 "Southern Pacific". I believe Lionel has done both versions of Daylight northerns., if not they should have.
Pete
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:I have not seen the new one yet, but from the pictures I've seen online, the new Daylight appears to be very close in color to the 2016 release, which I have. The 2016 ironically doesn't match the 2016 Daylight passenger cars, which are darker and closer in color to the 2010 18" aluminum and 2010 Alco PA, but it does work well with the lighter, creamier-colored 2005 cars. So I would expect that the Vision Daylight should work best with the 2005 18" release, but not the 2010 18" or 2016 21" cars.
Thanks!
I always just focus more on the 'passengers' inside the cars on the higher end cars I own rather than the colour/shade of the car itself as the train passes by.
@Norton posted:It should be noted the 2005 cars are lettered in the early 1937-1945 scheme "Southern Pacific Lines", while the later Shasta cars are post 1945 "Southern Pacific". I believe Lionel has done both versions of Daylight northerns., if not they should have.
Pete
They do/have, at least in the GS5s, which are the only ones I have looked at in detail.
I forgot to mention the difference in lettering. I have a 3rd Rail GS4 with the bigger "Southern Pacific" lettering but opted for that before I understood the difference!
The GS-4 4449 was offered in both versions this catalog. I went for the Southern Pacific Lines one which I should be able to post pictures of either Saturday or Sunday.
@Will Ebbert posted:The GS-4 4449 was offered in both versions this catalog. I went for the Southern Pacific Lines one which I should be able to post pictures of either Saturday or Sunday.
Many thanks!
@Will Ebbert posted:The GS-4 4449 was offered in both versions this catalog. I went for the Southern Pacific Lines one which I should be able to post pictures of either Saturday or Sunday.
As additional information, SP4449 is currently painted & lettered in the "as delivered" 1941 scheme, with the train number indicator housings located in the forward position on the skyline casing. Models with the post 1946 large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC tender lettering, should also have the train number indicator housings relocated rearward to about the middle of the skyline casings (the angle of the indicator housings is also different).
@Hancock52 posted:Very useful tutorials, Marty, on both lighting and sound. I knew some of this stuff before but forgot!
Dave Olson has been doing some pretty good videos on these called "Demos with Dave". I haven't found them on their YouTube channels but are available on Facebook without signing up. Just use the link on their home page.
@Hot Water posted:As additional information, SP4449 is currently painted & lettered in the "as delivered" 1941 scheme, with the train number indicator housings located in the forward position on the skyline casing. Models with the post 1946 large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC tender lettering, should also have the train number indicator housings relocated rearward to about the middle of the skyline casings (the angle of the indicator housings is also different).
Thanks for the info. It looks like the Vision models have a silver smokebox. I've seen pictures of 4449 with silver and gray at various points in time. Do you know if thr colors correspond to particular time periods or just whichever shade was picked at the time of painting?
@Will Ebbert posted:Thanks for the info. It looks like the Vision models have a silver smokebox. I've seen pictures of 4449 with silver and gray at various points in time. Do you know if thr colors correspond to particular time periods or just whichever shade was picked at the time of painting?
The only time I can remember the smokebox paint color being gray, was when she was painted black for the BNSF Employee Appreciation operations.
Some additional thoughts and information that may of interest to any of you "rivet counters" out there:
If you are modeling the "modern era", i.e. after the red, white & blue American Freedom Train era, there are some technical details on 4449 of today, that would NOT have been prototypical for anyone attempting to model a Southern Pacific Daylight passenger train of the 1940s through 1958:
1) The whistle as been relocated from inside the skyline casing, forward to beside the right (Engineer's) side of the exhaust stack.
2) The 27 pin diesel MU receptacle mounted on the back of the tender.
3) The various additional diesel MU air hoses between the engine and tender, plus on the rear of the tender.
@Hot Water Am I correct in my understanding that the real 4449 tender does not have rear marker lights on the tender as the Lionel model does? Did any of the GS-4's ever have them?
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:@Hot Water Am I correct in my understanding that the real 4449 tender does not have rear marker lights on the tender as the Lionel model does?
Correct.
Did any of the GS-4's ever have them?
Rarely, since they were portable electric marker lamps, i.e. hung on the available mounting brackets, and plugged into their respective electrical receptacles. Besides, being passenger locomotives, rarely did any of the GS class locomotive require marker lamps on the rear.
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:@Hot Water Am I correct in my understanding that the real 4449 tender does not have rear marker lights on the tender as the Lionel model does? Did any of the GS-4's ever have them?
They could have them. Power and mounts clearly visible.
Taken by me in 2009.
Pete
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@Norton posted:They could have them. Power and mounts clearly visible.
Taken by me in 2009.
Pete
Wow, that's a great photo!
(I wonder which urethane enamel was used for this paint job - too shiny for anything else.)
If I recall correctly 4449 did have marker lights on her tender at some point(s). I think they were present in 2007 for the Pudget Sound doubleheader event with the 844.
@Hancock52 posted:Wow, that's a great photo!
(I wonder which urethane enamel was used for this paint job - too shiny for anything else.)
We have always used Dupont Imron paint, ever since the American Freedom Train days. With that paint, no mater how dirty she gets, including an overflow of black oil in the tender bunker, she cleans up beautifully by using mineral spirits or diesel fuel, and finishing off with Dawn detergent.
@ES44AC posted:If I recall correctly 4449 did have marker lights on her tender at some point(s).
As I stated above, the marker lamps are portable, and when not required they are kept locked up in the tool car.
I think they were present in 2007 for the Pudget Sound doubleheader event with the 844.
I believe so, since she had to make a light move from the Brooklyn Round House and back again, after the weekend trips.
@Hancock52 posted:Wow, that's a great photo!
(I wonder which urethane enamel was used for this paint job - too shiny for anything else.)
One thing the photo demonstrates is how reflective light can alter the perceived shades of color. Compare the orange on the engine to the rear of the tender.
This was taken in Portland in 2015. For the photograpers out there I admit to little if any photographic skills. Photos taken with a Nikon digital SLR in "Auto" mode. Colors and white balance complements of the brain implanted in the cameras memory.
Pete
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@Hot Water posted:We have always used Dupont Imron paint, ever since the American Freedom Train days. With that paint, no mater how dirty she gets, including an overflow of black oil in the tender bunker, she cleans up beautifully by using mineral spirits or diesel fuel, and finishing off with Dawn detergent.
Oh reminds me went with my dad one day. We were doing some work on a backhoe. I had the bright idea of using diesel fuel to clean it up. Looked real good real shinny. He was running the machine the next day and all the dust from the job stuck to the machine. We didn't know to finish with dawn. Years latter we got a good laugh out of it.
@Hot Water posted:As additional information, SP4449 is currently painted & lettered in the "as delivered" 1941 scheme, with the train number indicator housings located in the forward position on the skyline casing. Models with the post 1946 large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC tender lettering, should also have the train number indicator housings relocated rearward to about the middle of the skyline casings (the angle of the indicator housings is also different).
Technically the train indicator boards moved mid-boiler much earlier than 1946. GS-2 and 3 classes were delivered with the boards up front. After the GS-4’s were delivered in 1941 with their MARS light, it was discovered that the indicator boards were difficult to read with the flashing MARS light. SP shop crews began moving the boards to the mid boiler location some time in 1942. By 1943 all the GS-4’s had been changed over.
It should also be noted that the GS-6 was delivered in 1943 and came from Lima with mid boiler indicator boards. This class never had front located boards.
For a purist SP modeler, the SP Lines lettering on a GS-4 with forward mounted train indicator boards has a very short time period for being prototypical.
So most importantly, do we yet know if the new 2020 Daylight locomotives match the 2005 Lionel aluminum Daylight cars or not?
@BobbyD posted:So most importantly, do we yet know if the new 2020 Daylight locomotives match the 2005 Lionel aluminum Daylight cars or not?
No, we don't know yet - or at least I don't as mine hasn't even shipped yet, and there's a shortage of pictures, which however might be remedied this weekend by another poster on this thread.
However, meanwhile, if you want to try to make a comparison, two days ago the Instagram account known as AmericanOGauge had a close-up still and a short video of the VL Daylight 4449. I don't think I can post the still photo here as I am not sure exactly who it belongs to, but the colors shown in it look pretty similar to me to Lionel's last Daylight 4449, which I think was issued around 2016. I don't think that was, or these VL models will be, a very close match for the 2005 cars, but won't be so different as to make anyone who is not a total purist wince.
I personally would rather the new run doesn’t match the 2005 cars. The colors that Lionel used in the early 2000s aren’t quite right. The scarlet red almost has a fluourescent quality to it and is a little on the pink side.
I have the 2005 set and will probably put the cars up for sale after I get the GGD set
@Hancock52 posted:.....I don't think I can post the still photo here as I am not sure exactly who it belongs to, but the colors shown in it look pretty similar to me to Lionel's last Daylight 4449, which I think was issued around 2016. I don't think that was, or these VL models will be, a very close match for the 2005 cars, but won't be so different as to make anyone who is not a total purist wince.
@Ryan Selvius posted:I personally would rather the new run doesn’t match the 2005 cars. The colors that Lionel used in the early 2000s aren’t quite right. The scarlet red almost has a fluourescent quality to it and is a little on the pink side.
I have the 2005 set and will probably put the cars up for sale after I get the GGD set
The 2016 Daylight engines didn't quite match the 2005 aluminum passenger cars, but were pretty close. I didn't care to have them different, though, even a little (just me), and so I kept my no. 11127 Legacy GS-4 Daylight from '08, which matches the cars perfectly. Same reason I have a "wait and see" attitude toward these new Vision versions. Even if they're a perfect match with the 2005 cars, the 11127 is a great engine, and I'm not sure I see the need to spend all the bucks to replace it with a Vision version. The Shasta Daylight cars Lionel did in 2010 were a much duller shade of orange and scarlet, and while they matched the PAs that were produced with them, they didn't match the Daylight steam engines at all.
It's interesting that the Lionel Daylight MPC-era 15" aluminum cars from 1982-83, the Madison cars from 1983, and the scale Heavyweights from 2008 were all pretty much dead matches with each other, as well as with the 2005 18" aluminum cars. They also match the scale GS-2 from 2004 as well as the '08 GS-4. Lionel used to be very good at matching colors.
It will be interesting to see the colors of the new Vision Daylights. It'll be a bit of surprise if they match the 2005 cars, especially given Lionel's difficulty with colors over the past number of years, but it will be nice if they do.
Can't say I agree with Ryan about the scarlet red - I don't find it has a fluourescent quality or pink tone. Of course, people's color perceptions are different. It appears to me that the 2005 Lionel aluminum cars are very close to prototype, at least of the current 4449 and cars. The colors of the GGD cars (and GGD Daylight engine) have a much duller and less vibrant shade of colors. They may match some Daylight colors from the past, I don't know, but they don't appear to match the Lionel colors at all.
The appeal of all these colors is subjective, of course, and people will have differing opinions.
Well, here is a fine video of a GS Daylight, this one with the steam from the dynamos = a whole lotta smoke! Thanks to the forum member who posted this on his channel. My take on it is that the Daylight colors do not look different from those I have seen on Lionel models going back to about 2013:
My specific example of an earlier Daylight scheme is the cab forward from 2013, which this new model seems to match - or at least near enough for me:
Hancock52,
Thanks for posting that video showing the dynamo smoke. I am a PRR and a whistle steam fan so I never planned on ordering a SP engine but I did think to myself that I would not be satisfied with dynamo steam instead of whistle steam. Boy was I wrong that engine looks great with all those smoke effects. May have to buy more smoke fluid stock.
JohnB
@JohnB posted:Hancock52,
Thanks for posting that video showing the dynamo smoke. I am a PRR and a whistle steam fan so I never planned on ordering a SP engine but I did think to myself that I would not be satisfied with dynamo steam instead of whistle steam. Boy was I wrong that engine looks great with all those smoke effects. May have to buy more smoke fluid stock.
JohnB
The GS5 that I ordered was cataloged with dynamo smoke but it was later announced it would have whistle steam instead. Frankly I am glad because the dynamo smoke effect looks a little overwhelming to me! Visitors also tend to be more impressed by smoke effects you can trigger off and on and with the whistle you get the sound as well of course.
At this stage I just want to get my hands on mine to test it out. The other thread on the VL GS1 started by Bruk basically shows how to get the boiler off if you need to, which is not something I want to try doing unless I have to.
Too much smoke for me. If Lionel still makes money selling ERR to 3rd Rail then I wish we could preorder with no electronics. Let me install ERR cruise commander and GRJ’s products as to what I care for.
I'll post more pictures and videos later, but just got it out of the box. Beautiful engine! 
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Here's some better photos of the Daylight GS-4 (Southern Pacific Lines 4449). I'm really pleased with the model. I can't get the classification lights on thr engine to change color but the ones on the tender do. OGR isn't letting my videos upload even though they're under the file size limit.
As someone who has worked on a number of steam locomotives, I will say the crew talk dialogue is acceptable on this engine. A lot of it is just conversational stuff, which I really like. A good number of options to choose from. There's also a fairly accurate whistle to my ears, although I'll primarily use the horn since that's what SP did.
Great job Lionel! This is my first Vision Line locomotive, but not my last!
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@Will Ebbert
Thanks very much for these photos and video. Obviously different camera settings will produce different white balance and color saturation in photos, but I think I’m satisfied that this run of Daylights are pretty much the same in terms of the colors Lionel has used fairly recently, as in 2013 and later.
The front marker lights issue is a real bore, however, as the ability to change colors was a highly touted feature of these engines. If or when you get it sorted out please post the fix. Frankly I am really apprehensive about finding issues with mine when it arrives!
I kind of agree with the opinion on crew talk as it applies to all engines. But you really can’t add much more to crew talk than we already have, unless the crew and the tower start talking about the weather or sports. There are only so many things to say between the crew and tower. When I watch some of the videos on the Forum, guys record a lot of crew talk like it’s the latest and greatest thing. Crew talk has been around for a while. Don’t get me wrong, I love having crew talk, but it has its limits.
@Will Ebbert posted:Here's some better photos of the Daylight GS-4 (Southern Pacific Lines 4449).
I hope those colors shown in your photos aren't what the actual ones look like. 
@breezinup posted:I hope those colors shown in your photos aren't what the actual ones look like.
They're a little under saturated. The second photo is pretty representative, but as has to be stated on all of the discussions of the color of any model, lighting in a room significantly changes colors.
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@Genoz posted:
Nice video, thanks. I can’t make out whether the Daylight on the lower track is one of the new VLs - classification lights on the engine don’t look as bright as all the VL models appear to be. And since there appears to be a matching Daylight AWT behind it, I’m guessing that maybe it’s an MTH engine? Sorry if this info is further up the thread - I haven’t gone back over it again.
Sorry the 4449 is a legacy engine from a few years back, the freedom is a new Vision Line. There is a better vid at the beginning of this thread and more vids at YouTube@GeneFrance.
I have ordered the GGD Daylight set to pull behind my 4449. I do not care if the colors are not a perfect match. The GGD cars are in a league of their own. More expensive, yes. They are worth it to me.
Al
@Al Nevada posted:I have ordered the GGD Daylight set to pull behind my 4449. I do not care if the colors are not a perfect match. The GGD cars are in a league of their own. More expensive, yes. They are worth it to me.
Al
I’ve done the same and also don’t care if they match. I was still in college when GGD produced the first Daylight set so I couldn’t afford it even though the price was far better back then. Now that I’m in a good place financially, I can finally get one
Same here regarding the GGD cars - only the scale versions are being made and I have a few on order to complete what I have already got, which includes the articulated diner and tavern car. They won't be anything like an exact match - do I care? No. The cars and the engine(s) - all Lionel - will stand out on their own. Besides, it's my railroad.
My 4449 Visionline, brand new three months old failed. It seems that it would start then shorts out before start up. The lights come on the the breaker blows. I tried it on two different tracks. I tried to hit reset before it shut down. Got any other ideas?
@Genoz posted:My 4449 Visionline, brand new three months old failed. It seems that it would start then shorts out before start up. The lights come on the the breaker blows. I tried it on two different tracks. I tried to hit reset before it shut down. Got any other ideas?
Could be a rubbing or pinched wire: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ith-surprises?page=1
The dog did it...knocked the feed wire loose and im up and running again
