I know there are some fans of "The Put" on the forum... this came across my Facebook feed this morning from the NY Transit Museum:

#TodayinHistory: On May 29, 1958, the New York Central Putnam Division commuter line made its final run between the Sedgwick Avenue station in the Bronx and the Brewster station in Putnam County, NY. Commonly called “the Put,” the line was decommissioned due to low ridership resulting from the line’s lack of both commuter parking and direct service to Grand Central Terminal, both of which were features of the parallel Harlem and Hudson Divisions. However, because there were no tunnels on the line, its tracks continued to be used by oversized freight trains until 1962, when the West Shore Railroad upgraded to accommodate “high and wide” freight traffic. Today, a remaining stub of track at Marble Hill is used for storage by Metro-North Railroad and much of the former roadbed has been converted to bike trails.

These #NYTMCollection photos were taken at the Sedgwick Avenue and Briarcliff Manor stations on the New York Central Putnam Division commuter line’s final run fifty-nine years ago. The original Briarcliff Manor station building reopened last year as a village community center dedicated to former mayor William J. Vescio.

Paul

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59 years ago....I would be 5 years old in about a week. Starting Manhattan College in 71, I always saw a single track along the Major Deegan and I crossed over it on West 240th St. I basically ignored it.    Little did I know that less 20 years later, I would become obsessed with its history and would subsequently search out all I could learn about it.....

Peter

Well, it looks like the last passenger train on the Put was pulled by an Alco.  What a great way to celebrate the end, with a cloud of black smoke after each station stop.  

I am curious:

  • Was the Putnam Division signaled, semaphores perhaps?
  • Did it connect with a main line on both ends?
  • How long (in miles) was it?
  • What was the maximum authorized speed for passenger and for freight trains, respectively?
  • Was it really a Division with its own Superintendent. or was it just called a Division for a different reason?

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

Lone Star Hi-Railers

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Thanks, Peter.  I bookmarked the link to the pennyandkc - and, by the way, that answered almost all my questions, and the one remaining was answered by the map on Wikipedia.  What an interesting segment of NYC the Put was.

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

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Stella D'Oro no longer uses rail service?  The company has passed through multiple corporate hands and the factory is closed?  Fie!  Fie!  A pox upon their houses!  May they choke on their biscotti!

THE PUT IS DEAD!  LONG LIVE THE PUT!

GENERAL NOTICE - Safety is of the first importance in the discharge of duty.  Obedience to the rules is essential to safety.  To enter or remain in the service is an assurance of willingness to obey the rules.

Putnam Division posted:

Ah! Stella Doro.....the smell of cookies coming through my car's heater on cold winter mornings is one of those sensations that evokes great memories.....

Peter

Could say the same thing about driving past the old Entenman's plant in Brentwood.

Bob

Three Rails Are Better Than None 

I used to drive the Deegan to work every day passing the remains of the Put.  There were still may of the tell-tales still in place.  Wasn't the Stella D'Oro building torn down or was that a Nabisco factory?

Is anyone young enough to remember the Silvercup bakery when it was still a bakery?  You could smell fresh bread halfway across the 59th Street bridge.  You have to go to the Rockland bakery if you want that smell today.

Dan

Peter/Putnam Division, Thanks for my inclusion! 

I grew up in Yonkers, NY and except for 10 years in Peekskill, NY, my wife and I are still here---approximately a mile and a half from The Old Put's ROW. Back in the 1970's, I played little league baseball at Cook Field (now Redmond Field). I would often be bored in the outfield except when an occasional short freight would head north, powered by an RS-3. 

Today, The Put is part of a fine rail trail system. In Westchester County, the southern portion is the South County Trailway and the northern section (as you can guess) is the North County Trailway. I still find it amazing that there are tell-tale poles, coal and spikes that you can find and even sections of rail (some of it still in Yonkers).  

http://parks.westchestergov.com/trailways

If you have any interest in The Put, I would recommend the Dan Gallo and Fred Kramer paperback, The Putnam Division. Also pictured by Peter are the 3 hardcover versions of The Old Put by Joe Schiavone. These are great additions for anyone interested in this line. Many photos were never seen before and came from private collections. When the initial release, "The Old Put" came out, there was a DVD that came with it called Walk the Put. In that DVD, Joe covers all stations from Van Cortlandt in the Bronx to Put Junction/Brewster. Brian Vangor did a superb job with the videography. As he walk along, Joe talks about the history of several stations. I talked about a few stops in Yonkers, too on the same DVD. It was a fun project. 

Tom 

Wow Gabe pressman is in his 90s? That really makes me feel old. I miss my days in the Bronx. Thanks for the memories.

Frank Ventura

choochoo@technologynation.us

 

 

... Another dedicated member of the model railroad quality control department. whenever I see quality, I try to control it...

 

Kent Loudon posted:

Am I correct?  I seem to recall reading that trains arriving in Brewster via the PUT were actually facing south on the Harlem Line.

You memory is fairly good.  The Put entered Brewster via a "Y" in the yard south of the station.  Geographically, the Harlem line ran north/south while, approaching Brewster, the Put was east/west, so a train could be facing south if it took that leg of the "Y".

Dan

Another item from my Facebook feed today... the description reads:

The last remaining track of the Putnam Line from the Bronx to Pleasantville.

 D9027B77-B57B-460F-91C1-9011A59DD2F5

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My wife works at the Bronx VA and I sometimes have jobs in Kingsbridge and there are 2 tell tales still up. One is just south of the Van Cortland exit with wires and all hanging and the other is just off Putnum st in the same area. I was just there on Monday and they were still up. There is actually track as Metro North uses it for contractor train and such.

Peter, as I read your post about smelling the cookies from Stella Doro I am sitting here downing a cannoli from DiLillo's on 'a hun eighty seventh'.  Yesterday was my 50th reunion at Cardinal Hayes, so I ran up to Arthur Ave for some bread and pastry. Oh, back to Stella Doro: my father was a cop in the 50th pct when you were at Manhattan College. Often we were the beneficiaries of the end-of-day 'overage' there. They were nice guys who ran that bakery and a loss to the Bronx with their departure a few years ago.

Chuck

TCA 04-57633; LCCA

 

Just to update some points...there are still several sections of rail that can be found, Elmsford for one, quite a few in Yonkers. Last I looked there were tell tales still up by Gray Oaks. Coal is still easy to find as is the occasional spike or tie plate along the whole line. 

On a sad note, for those who were not aware, Joe Schiavone passed away recently. Thanks to Joe for doing his share to keep The Put's history alive for future generations. 

Tom 

Alentown posted:

Peter, as I read your post about smelling the cookies from Stella Doro I am sitting here downing a cannoli from DiLillo's on 'a hun eighty seventh'.  Yesterday was my 50th reunion at Cardinal Hayes, so I ran up to Arthur Ave for some bread and pastry. Oh, back to Stella Doro: my father was a cop in the 50th pct when you were at Manhattan College. Often we were the beneficiaries of the end-of-day 'overage' there. They were nice guys who ran that bakery and a loss to the Bronx with their departure a few years ago.

Where did they go?.... Never mind!

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...ars-article-1.383855

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MNCW posted:

On a sad note, for those who were not aware, Joe Schiavone passed away recently. Thanks to Joe for doing his share to keep The Put's history alive for future generations. 

Tom 

May he rest in peace.....A really nice man.....I spoke to him a few times on the phone.

Peter

MNCW posted:

Just to update some points...there are still several sections of rail that can be found, Elmsford for one, quite a few in Yonkers. Last I looked there were tell tales still up by Gray Oaks. Coal is still easy to find as is the occasional spike or tie plate along the whole line. 

Tom 

Thanks for the correction, Tom. Guess it’s true what they say... you can’t believe everything you read on the internet/Facebook   

Paul

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The Put was a unique and interesting piece of a big railroad.  It was interesting enough that even those of us in the opposite corner of the USA (southern California) knew of it, thanks to Trains Magazine.  And now we have passed 60 years since its last run.  

Tom

 

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The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

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Does the right-of-way easment revert to the landowner in a case like Putnam?

In Nevada we have a number of old railway routes (track long gone). complete with early tunnels that people often hike. There are also quite a few miles of abandon track the people ride with home built contraptions with small motors.

I know railroads don't want to give up rights, but we also have a number of routes (like to Hoover Dam) that have been paved over where it crosses streets. So I often wonder why/if the railroad (probably UP) still ownes tracks that can't be used.

USMC 1966-69

GVDobler posted:

Does the right-of-way easment revert to the landowner in a case like Putnam?

 

In Westchester County, it took a long time to finish the trail as businesses had encroached onto the right-of-way...not sure what finally convinced everyone to cooperate, but in the end the Old Put is useful once again, now reincarnated as a walking/running/biking trail. I believe Westchester County owns that portion that exists within its borders. 

Tom 

MNCW posted:

Just to update some points...there are still several sections of rail that can be found, Elmsford for one, quite a few in Yonkers. Last I looked there were tell tales still up by Gray Oaks. Coal is still easy to find as is the occasional spike or tie plate along the whole line. 

On a sad note, for those who were not aware, Joe Schiavone passed away recently. Thanks to Joe for doing his share to keep The Put's history alive for future generations. 

Tom 

Yes, sad news about Joe. Living in Carmel, New York where Joe taught middle school I ran into him all the time. He was my son's 3rd grade teacher. One of the nicest men you could meet and cared immensely for his students. 

Mike

I remember reading about the situation with the High Line in NYC and the rules around railroad lines and abandonment and so forth. With a rails to trails it depends on the agreement between the railroad and those who build the park, with the high line the property actually was transferred over to the NYC department of parks I believe by CSX, they no longer own the right of way. In other cases the railroads allow the rail  to trail conversion and the sponsoring agency is in charge of the trail, but the property is still owned by the railroad and they can retain the right to 'claw back' the trail if they ever decide to re-activate the line (for example, I think they did that with the route that was supposed to become the so called Lackawanna cutoff, I believe that they took back rights to what had been a rail to trail including the Paulinskill viaduct (and I could be wrong, they may have talked about doing that but didn't). I remember reading about the process where a railroad makes a rail line having suspended operations versus formal abandonment, the latter is a big deal. 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

I had to go to a funeral home in Mahopac the other day that is across the street from the Lake Mahopac station. It is part of a business now but the sign is still up on the station. I would love to find where the Harlem station was. I understand it was very near the Put station.

Cincytrains posted:

I had to go to a funeral home in Mahopac the other day that is across the street from the Lake Mahopac station. It is part of a business now but the sign is still up on the station. I would love to find where the Harlem station was. I understand it was very near the Put station.

Cincy;

Hope this pic is clear enough... according to “The Last of The Old Put...”, page 103, the sign is on the old train building (which is, at the time the book was written, an American Legion Post):

 4BD4AF5C-D537-493E-85DC-8B474F17B143

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prrhorseshoecurve posted:

This Friday ( weather permitting), I will be driving up the Saw Mill River parkwaY on the way to the "Big E" . I always like to study the old put on the way up .... And down if it's not too dark!

PRR;

Good news/bad news... the good news:

If you have time... the Saw Mill ends at I-684. The first exit you will hit on 684 is 6A - Goldens Bridge. You will exit on to Rt. 22. Make a left and Follow 22 for a short distance - make a right  on to North Street (you should see a Metro-North parking lot on the far corner). Follow North Street around the curve (past a small strip mall on your right) till it ends at Rt. 138. Make a left on to 138, cross over 684 and the Metro-North tracks at the Goldens Bridge Station - continue on 138 for a short distance and on your left you will see Bridge L158 from the Lake Mahopac branch of the Put.

Now the bad news... on 684, Goldens Bridge only has an exit going northbound and an entrance going southbound. If you decide to have a look, make sure you have a GPS!!! You can use the address of the MN station (1 Old Bedford Road, Goldens Bridge, NY 10526). Going in either direction, you will need to go use exit 8, Hardscrabble Road, which has an entrance and exit in both directions.

B96C1520-9CA3-46AF-9847-6E13D5424AA7

My brother lives 5 minutes from there, so I’ve seen the bridge many times.

Paul

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My grandfather used to run the putnam valley coal and lumber in elmsford in the 1930s 

Growing up in white plains we used attend church in elmsford i have a picture somewhere of penn central rs 3 in the early 1970s by the old elmsford train station which was turned into a italian restaurant later

I am also a Jasper from manhattan college fondly  remembering the smell of the stella dora bakery 

Kind of funny as a child I wanted to be a train engineer wound up engineering aircraft.

Still love trains just need to build that layout I’ve been planning for 25 years lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

So were exactly  in Lake Mahopac did the Put meet up with the  Metro North Harlem line?

PRR;

I’m by no means an expert on the Old Put, but if I understand your question correctly, the answer is - it didn’t. The Put continued on to Brewster where it met up with the NYC Harlem Line. There was a branch of the Put which ran from Lake Mahopac to Goldens Bridge on the NYC Harlem Line. Both Goldens Bridge and Brewster are stops on Metro-North’s Harlem Line.

Here is a Line to a Wiki page on the Put - there is a list of the stops included in the article.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik..._and_Putnam_Railroad

Paul

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The simple answer is never.  Rails to Lake Mahopac were abandoned before Metro North was created. 

IF you are thinking historically, here's a brief summary.  To reslly understand this, you should refer to the 1928 topo map.  Here's the link  docs.unh.edu/NY/cfls44nw.jpg - the NW segment of the Croton Falls quadrangle.

On the Punam Division, thre was a station in Mahopac. The 1905  employee timetable shows "Harlen R.R. Crossing" 1.15 miles south of Mahopac station.There was a branch of the Harlem Line from Golden's Bridge to Lake Mahopac, crossing the "Put" at that location.  It's original station in Mahopac (named "Lake Mahopac") was at a somewhat lower level slightly to the west of Mahopac on the PUT.

 

 

 

So than, I guess the proper terminology would be The Lake Mahopac Branch of the NYC Harlem Line???

Paul

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The Golden's Bridge branch line connected Golden's Bridge on the Harlem Line with Lake Mahopac on the Putnam Division. The branch actually met the Put at XC which was between Bucks Hollow Rd and Rt 6.

Skip  

TCA, LCCA

"On track, on time, and over budget!" 

MNCW posted:

Paul,

Interesting...this photo came up on another topic and I thought it was Briarcliff Manor and said so (but then had doubts that it might be Nepperhan). Thanks for confirming.

Tom 

If you walk around the back of the Briarcliff Manor Library, those stairs and handrails are still there amidst the shrubs. I don't think Nepperhan Station had stairs.

Skip  

TCA, LCCA

"On track, on time, and over budget!" 

NYC Fan posted:
MNCW posted:

Paul,

Interesting...this photo came up on another topic and I thought it was Briarcliff Manor and said so (but then had doubts that it might be Nepperhan). Thanks for confirming.

Tom 

If you walk around the back of the Briarcliff Manor Library, those stairs and handrails are still there amidst the shrubs. I don't think Nepperhan Station had stairs.

Yes Skip...the more I thought about it, the more stupid I felt. I think Nepperhan had the station and freight house on the same side (I think on the west side of the tracks). 

Tom 

MELGAR posted:

Paul,

The photo you posted is dated 1999. I wonder if it still looks this way today. I think it's actually a good thing if the track is still in place and it looks as shown.

MELGAR

Interesting question, MELGAR... maybe Tom (@MNCW) has some more recent info. While I understand the Rails-to-Trails movement, I agree that keeping some old trackage intact is worthwhile, especially from a historic perspective.

Paul

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Hi Paul (& all), Last that I knew after the year 2000, maybe 2005, there was still a small section of the Put up in Brewster. I believe Metro-North used it to move equipment around in the yard. So, it wasn't saved for historical reasons, instead it was considered active.

Tom 

MNCW posted:

Hi Paul (& all), Last that I knew after the year 2000, maybe 2005, there was still a small section of the Put up in Brewster. I believe Metro-North used it to move equipment around in the yard. So, it wasn't saved for historical reasons, instead it was considered active.

Tom 

Thanks Tom... figures you’d have some insight. Glad to see some history remains for any reason.

Paul

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Putnam Division posted:

I forgot about this thread......loved re-reading it. Thanks for resurrecting it!

The book recommendations I made on page 1 still stand......

Peter

Peter;

This Forum is almost as good as my ex-wife at spending my money (like I need any help!!!)  

I picked up the three Old Put volumes at the Danbury RR Museum last year - two are signed by the author, and I picked up Tom’s wonderful volume at one of the White Plains Train Shows. After reviewing your recommendations, I just found two of your suggestions on Amazon for a reasonable price - more reading material!!!

Paul

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Paul,

  I believe the first Joe Schiavone Put book had the DVD that should have accompanied it, "Walk the Put." The video was nicely done by Brian Vangor, who was the videographer. Brian filmed Joe (and others) as each stop and some extra areas were covered from Van Cortland Park to Brewster. If you didn't get the DVD (and want one) let me know before you show up at the next White Plains show and I can give you one. I think it was the first Put book also (The Old Put, if I recall correctly) where there is a hand-drawn picture of my Yard Limit sign.

Tom 

MNCW posted:

Paul,

  I believe the first Joe Schiavone Put book had the DVD that should have accompanied it, "Walk the Put." The video was nicely done by Brian Vangor, who was the videographer. Brian filmed Joe (and others) as each stop and some extra areas were covered from Van Cortland Park to Brewster. If you didn't get the DVD (and want one) let me know before you show up at the next White Plains show and I can give you one. I think it was the first Put book also (The Old Put, if I recall correctly) where there is a hand-drawn picture of my Yard Limit sign.

Tom 

Tom;

Wow... that would be great!!! The volumes I purchased were in like-new condition, but obviously gently used... unfortunately, there was no DVD and I’d love to pick up a copy. @MELGAR mentioned doing another trip to WP, and with repaired knees, I would probably find it more pleasant!!! (I’ll still probably borrow your extra chair).

Found this in Vol. 1... I assume it is what you were referencing:

14AA0B47-1E5D-4226-A47A-8D72CB35AA65

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Apples55 posted:

A really cool shot from my Facebook feed today... the caption reads:

”NYC F12 class 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler steam locomotive # 1244, is seen hauling a passenger train at Yorktown Heights, New York, 07-20-1951, NYC Putnam Division........if only the Put survived thru to Metro-North, would be nice to have a Metro-North Putnam Line, GCT to Mahopac, or even Brewster and Southeast via the Put........what could've been!!!!       Train Man Paul collection; Sylvain Assez photo”

556BA9DE-39D5-4549-A288-A5D137C9E35E

What a great photo!. Thank you so much, Paul!...... I may try to duplicate this consist this weekend with my 10 wheeler and 2 Atlas Trainman cars.....

Peter

Apples55 posted:

A really cool shot from my Facebook feed today... the caption reads:

”NYC F12 class 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler steam locomotive # 1244, is seen hauling a passenger train at Yorktown Heights, New York, 07-20-1951, NYC Putnam Division........if only the Put survived thru to Metro-North, would be nice to have a Metro-North Putnam Line, GCT to Mahopac, or even Brewster and Southeast via the Put........what could've been!!!!       Train Man Paul collection; Sylvain Assez photo”

556BA9DE-39D5-4549-A288-A5D137C9E35E

I was going to say it looks like Yorktown Heights when I saw the bridge in the distance, then I read the caption. The bridge is near where today's fire station is today. 

Tom 

Paul,

The bridge was "humped up" to cross over the tracks (you might be able to tell...it is way in the distance). Sometime after the tracks were removed the area was regraded and the rail trail crosses even with the road like a grade crossing. Today, that is Commerce Street. Not sure if it was called that in 1958 and before.

Tom 

Kent Loudon posted:

If I had to choose between the train and the "woody" station wagon, I'd be at a loss!

 

Simple solution, Kent... ride the train and take a window seat and watch the cars as you go by!!!

Paul

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No baggage car ?  I'll have my bicycle with me so will have to take a different train  .. 

As a teen, I lived in Scarsdale near the Hartsdale station.  Once a friend and I rode our bicycles down to Scarsdale (M.P. 19.0), checked them at the station, rode the train to Hartsdale(M.P. 20.6) and retrieved our bikes from the baggage man.  Cost us 10 cents each, the minimum fare between stations.  That was an MU train with an MU combine.

 

MNCW posted:

Here a Frank Schlegel photo, taken at East View. The northbound (closest) train has no baggage/combine car, but the second car of the southbound train appears to be what you guys are looking for.

Tom 

Frank Schlegel photo east view ny

Tom;

Let’s not encourage the bicyclists   But seriously, that is a great shot. I’m afraid I’m going to have to start looking for a Lionel 10-wheeler and make up an Old Put train... reading this Forum is an expensive habit!!!

P.S. where is East View???

Paul

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Apples55 posted:
Putnam Division posted:

Recreation as promised.......

Now, as for @mlaughlinnyc... when I was riding the Harlem Line before I retired, there regularly was SOMEONE who decided they wanted to take their bicycle on the train - I guess we have identified one of the miscreants!!! But I do believe the original photo does include a baggage car. I expanded the photo and it looks like the second car definitely has a door on the side. I have been putting together my version of a 1950’s Harlem Line train and I included a combo car for those pesky bicyclists!!!

Obviously Paul does not understand how checked baggage worked.  There is no way anyone would have known what baggage was checked by a passenger.  Passengers took their baggage to the station agent and checked it for movement on the next train that had a baggage car.  When that train arrived at the passenger's destination, the baggage was unloaded by the agent.  If that passenger happened to be on the platform at the time of unloading, he could give his agent the claim check right there and get the baggage, saving effort by both agent and passenger.  There was no inconvenience to other passengers.  That the baggage happened to be a bicycle was unimportant.

Maybe Paul is out of time context and thinking of passengers taking bicycles into a car next to a high level platform - long after the Put was abandoned and checked baggage service discontinued.

 

 

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