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Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

John,you are on th right track with a program like Scarm.  You can also use their module to place a train on your layout to see it work.  I spent about 6 months planning before I ordered track. 

Also, remember to create a theme (s) or a storyline in your plan.  If you don't, you will get bored and  use your new layout to test new engines and shut it off.  I would also consider a trip to York to see what is available for you to incorporate.

One more piece of input.  Consider adding a 4 way or something to park about 3 or 4 engines or locomotives.  They are heavy and sometimes delicate.  Best to minimize handling.

like others on the forum, I could go on and on. One more thing.  Do not ballast until your layout wiring is complete, dead nuts sure.  Run your layout without ballast do r a f e will months to m a key sure you are satisfied.  It is your layout and creativity.  "To thine own self, be true".  Good luck.  You will be a kid again.  It's fun.

I did go to the York show this past Oct. I was just overwhelmed at all the trains, displays and such. Too much to take in without knowing what I will be doing or wanting to do. I went Friday and stayed overnight and went Saturday morning then headed home. (long trip for me)

Yes I am working on a theme/storyline for the past couple of months. Although it appears to me as a chicken/egg thing. Of course I want a million things, however space and design dictate how many of those things are possible. I originally wanted the following:

1. Freight Line with industries
2. Passenger line with stops
3. At least one Small town and other scattered buildings
4. Major passenger station (thinking Grand Central Station in NYC)
5. coal mining and industry
6. Subway with end stop Coney Island in Brooklyn NY
7. Some Mountainous area (Coal mining area Scranton/Wilkes Barre Pa. )

I know the Grand station is probably out as it would require a major skyscraper area.  And yes a yard would be nice also to have. I pictured Sunnyside Yards in Long Island City where my Dad worked for the Pullman company. I will remember about not ballasting till totally satisfied with layout! So many wants, so little space and time.

Thanks for the input

DoubleDAZ posted:

John, I don't see any "S" curves, but then my eyesight isn't what it once was. An "S" curve is where there are 2 curved tracks connected together that go in opposing directions. The solution is to add a straight track between them, usually a 10" or longer track. This eliminates the stress on the cars and couplers from getting pulled in opposite directions at the same time. It appears you'e done that.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that by adding the O54 curves, you are limiting the size of engines you will be able to run. That means you won't be able to run anything that requires curves larger that O54, like the MTH Premier 4-8-8-4 Big Boy steamer. Personally, I don't have a problem with it because anything I buy will run with O31 curves, but I felt I needed to point out the limitation you are imposing with the tighter curves.

I'd also like to take a moment to discuss grades. I noticed some of the elevations got changed to 3" and that just won't work, so I changed them back to 6.5". Then I fiddled with the subway grade at the top of it's run. You can see I moved the beginning of the grade (Blue track) which changes where it will appear (Orange track). It also increased the grade to 4.7%. Have you considered an auto-reversing trolley instead of a subway?

I wasn't sure about the "S" thanks for clearing that up. As far as large trains small curves, at present the largest I have are 4 - 18" passenger cars Lionel 19079 heavyweights and a Diesel set K-Line K28701H which are 17.5" long. They are huge compared to the rest of my collection and although they look fantastic, if they won't work or look out of place I might sell them and get a smaller replacement. Not sure on how that will pan out yet. I did get a good deal on them at the time a couple of years ago. I still haven't taken them out of the box to run or test.

The 3" elevation was me playing with scarm table depth and valley terrain. I think adding the "subway" threw things off so to speak. And yes you are correct, this is by no means a final layout, but scarm practice and getting an idea what is possible in the space I have been given. Again which came first Chicken (design wants) or the egg( actual room size and layout constraints)

I picture the subway will be it's own layer under the table and then at the end elevate up to end at Coney Island. So it will skirt the edge of the table as much as possible with stations along the way. Not sure how far below main table it will/should be yet. The subway will probably be last part of the build, if it gets put in the end design at all.

Again Thanks Dave.

John,

Yes, it is hard to know what you may want on a first layout that is more than just circles around a Christmas Tree or on a sheet of plywood.  Some folks like a lot of switching cars at industries and in the yards.  I find a little of that okay, but not a steady diet.  I am more of a railfan, wanting to see a train run through multiple scenes Some people like a number of independent loops and have several trains running at a time.  Of course like most of us, you want to replicate scenes and train movements like you have seen in the real world; ie the subway.  You are ahead of many since you realize you can't have it all, Grand Central Station would look odd without a whole set of skyscrapers and how do you fit that into your space with Anthracite Mountain running?

I had two large passenger engines and two sets of long passenger cars I thought I could run on wide 072 loops while having other track for mountain hauling.  Well you may have seen in my topic where I discarded that idea, sold the big engine and long cars, and am going with just the small ones.  Nothing larger than a 2-8-0 Consolidation and first generation diesels, with 15" passenger cars.

Yes, the trip to York is a long trip for me too.  I have gone twice, but didn't go this past October.  We should join up and go together sometime.

Mark Boyce posted:

John,

Yes, it is hard to know what you may want on a first layout that is more than just circles around a Christmas Tree or on a sheet of plywood.  Some folks like a lot of switching cars at industries and in the yards.  I find a little of that okay, but not a steady diet.  I am more of a railfan, wanting to see a train run through multiple scenes Some people like a number of independent loops and have several trains running at a time.  Of course like most of us, you want to replicate scenes and train movements like you have seen in the real world; ie the subway.  You are ahead of many since you realize you can't have it all, Grand Central Station would look odd without a whole set of skyscrapers and how do you fit that into your space with Anthracite Mountain running?

I had two large passenger engines and two sets of long passenger cars I thought I could run on wide 072 loops while having other track for mountain hauling.  Well you may have seen in my topic where I discarded that idea, sold the big engine and long cars, and am going with just the small ones.  Nothing larger than a 2-8-0 Consolidation and first generation diesels, with 15" passenger cars.

Yes, the trip to York is a long trip for me too.  I have gone twice, but didn't go this past October.  We should join up and go together sometime.

Hi Mark,

Grand Central Station in the middle of the mountains would take more than imagination to be plausible. Yes I did read your letting go of those large items and scaled down the trains to fit the space/layout design. Your space is similar to mine and I do like your layout. Lots went into it and wow the transitioning from the smaller 12x12 to what you have now is fantastic. Going to York together sounds like a great idea and lots of fun.  I am so ignorant of Model railroading terms it is pathetic.  You wrote:"Nothing larger than a 2-8-0 Consolidation" 2-8-0 are the wheels on the loco I assume, how do you get length or size from that? Or is it just a look it up and read the dimensions.

 

Bill,  Many thanks for the diagrams of the Whyte notation.  

John, the manufacturer will give the length, but perhaps more important, the recommended minimum curve for each engine in its documentation.  My MTH engines have this information right on the label on the box, and online.  Other manufacturers do the same.  It is something to keep in mind with passenger cars and long modern freight cars as well.  

Here is an example using my largest engine:    https://mthtrains.com/20-3166-1    Now, I bought this engine used for a little more than than half the original MSRP from a member of this Forum.  All but one of my engines were bought used.  The new one was an inexpensive small diesel.

Last edited by Mark Boyce
Mark Boyce posted:

Bill,  Many thanks for the diagrams of the Whyte notation.  

John, the manufacturer will give the length, but perhaps more important, the recommended minimum curve for each engine in its documentation.  My MTH engines have this information right on the label on the box, and online.  Other manufacturers do the same.  It is something to keep in mind with passenger cars and long modern freight cars as well.  

Here is an example using my largest engine:    https://mthtrains.com/20-3166-1    Now, I bought this engine used for a little more than than half the original MSRP from a member of this Forum.  All but one of my engines were bought used.  The new one was an inexpensive small diesel.

Hi Mark,

I looked up the curve for my largest diesel and it is 0-72 minimum Shame I will now e-bay this unit with passenger cars. However it will be a better looking fit with smaller size engines in this space. I have acquired several engines and freight cars from a local auction in Ct. when I lived in that state. I did get some real good deals and will at least break even I hope. These were new in box as they came from a bankruptcy. We will see how they do on e-bay. I may wait till next fall as I do not have the time to list and ship. Plus it is so close to Christmas I might do better next year.

Thanks for the Info! Extremely helpful as always!

Jan posted:

I took a couple of hours this evening to work  on our plan,  Momimum mainline and revering loop curves is O63.

Jan

NICE work Jan! I was playing around a bit with a yard on the left side which put the purple curves back to a larger size. Again I was just playing around so to speak. This layout has no purpose as of yet, (except to run trains) But it is a great start and gives a great indication of what can be done in this area. 

 

DoubleDAZ posted:

Wonderful job Jan. I like it, but am concerned about the reach to the double crossover, unless John adds an access hatch by the spurs.

Thanks for the heads up on the dreaded reach factor.  I would like to avoid an access hatch if at all possible. Could possibly move the left crossover to the left until it becomes reachable. The other crossover could be moved towards the right as far as the Bridge??? Again Thanks Dave for picking up on that!

Mark Boyce posted:

I like having a purpose for my railroad, such as hauling coal or logs from point A to point B.  Some folks are quite happy with the purpose of just running trains.  Either is great!  It depends on what you want to do.

I would like to have a purpose for the railroad. Not totally sure yet what that maybe, but coal is definitely on the short list of mine. And sometimes just having a train run is nice, kind of like setting on the porch and hearing the diesel horn off in the distance and anticipating the train coming past the neighborhood.

I agree about the reach problem, that any of us over 60 should make sure we don’t design something we can’t maintain.  Just since we designed my layout I now that I have a disk and sciatic nerve problem.  I am glad my plan provides for easy access to all points.  

That said, I don’t know how to fix the problem other than taking a different approach to that area.  I guess I could put on my thinking cap, but I don’t know where I left it!!!

Aegis21 posted:
Mark Boyce posted:

I like having a purpose for my railroad, such as hauling coal or logs from point A to point B.  Some folks are quite happy with the purpose of just running trains.  Either is great!  It depends on what you want to do.

I would like to have a purpose for the railroad. Not totally sure yet what that maybe, but coal is definitely on the short list of mine. And sometimes just having a train run is nice, kind of like setting on the porch and hearing the diesel horn off in the distance and anticipating the train coming past the neighborhood.

I always have a continuous run ability to use on occasions I want to break in a new engine or just run trains.  You may have seen that discussion early on in my topic.  A true point to point only layout was suggested.  Most people don’t go for that.

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