Newbie ripped off at train show

I’d call the show organizers and see if they would give me contact info. If not just let them know of the issue.

Personally I'd be ticked off.   Unfortunately what we don't know is if there was some kind of indication from the seller that the engine had been gutted.  I'll be honest I had to skip through the video so this might have been mentioned either way.

That being said I would have been a bit more careful and been better at examining what I was purchasing but that comes from experience.  I would definitely contact the folks running the show.  I'm fortunate to have never been a victim of this but I wouldn't let them off the hook so easy and would pursue this further.  Someone knows who they are, especially the show operators.  Let's see what their side of the story is but this should be pursued.

He does mention that the guys didn't take Credit Cards and that should have been a red flag.  I completely disagree with that.  I don't take CCs, only cash at shows.  What I do have is a test track right at my table.  You don't have to go anywhere to test what I am selling.  Me and the guys I go with all test everything for you before you buy it if you want.  If it doesn't perform as expected you can offer me a lower price or you can walk away.  Gives the buyer and myself a piece of mind.  I've even tested other purchases but I tend to avoid that so I can't be blamed for an issue that might be present.

I just feel terrible for him.......yes, you should check out all your purchases......but, I'm sure he just got excited when he saw a great price on a command diesel.

The question is did the sellers know what they were delivering was contrary to what he was expecting?  We'll never know......but, a hard lesson learned!

Peter

Most “dummy” engines I’ve seen at train shows are marked as such in the price tag or a sign.   Unfortunately this might not have happened in this case.  
As a tip to new train fan I always have a Greenberg Price guide with me.  A quick look will tell you the value of the engine and perhaps have it noted as a dummy.
I’d still contact the seller and see if u can work something out.  Odds r they will be at York next month.  

The guy should go to the ALLENTOWN MEET SITE, there is a floor plan with the dealers names that are there.  Get in contact with the organizer and have them give their address so he can contact them.  There is also a test track at ALLENTOWN a to test out engines before you purchase them.  

@Lyinel posted:

Most “dummy” engines I’ve seen at train shows are marked as such in the price tag or a sign.   Unfortunately this might not have happened in this case.  
As a tip to new train fan I always have a Greenberg Price guide with me.  A quick look will tell you the value of the engine and perhaps have it noted as a dummy.
I’d still contact the seller and see if u can work something out.  Odds r they will be at York next month.  

From what I seen in the video it looks to me the guts were removed. Cut wires and all. If it was a dummy it appears it had some electronics at some point.

There isn’t a person in this hobby who hasn’t experienced a momentary lapse of common sense at a train show. I imagine we’ve all learned a lesson and hopefully, it wasn’t too expensive a lesson.

As Marty notes, train show test tracks are there for a reason. Before buying, I test engines to confirm they function properly. I also test passenger cars and cabooses to make sure lights and LED’s work.

I agree with Pu239’s comment above; “Ray” should reach out to the First Frost folks in Allentown and at the very least, let them know about this. Being personally involved in the organization of our local TCA Chapter train shows, we want folks attending to have a good time and a good experience. It’s repeat attendees who help spread the word and contribute toward making a show successful. If something like this happened at one of our shows; you can be certain we would want to know about it so we could investigate.

Curt

I stopped going to Chicago area shows. It seems most sellers are trying to capitalize on the impulse buyer, and always try to convince you" their price is a good deal."

I find it mind boggling how sellers will lug tons of stuff back and forth each month because prices are too high and stuff doesn't sell.

More often than not. I can find the same items online from a reputable dealer for less. At least you have some sort if recourse, even if it's ebay.

TCA membership is no more an indicator of honesty, than someone who says they go to church every Sunday.

I feel super bad for the guy who I assume is Ray. I agree with all the comments above that he should go further to try to get his money back. As I person who once got ripped when I was new to the hobby I totally know how he feels and it stinks.

However, I do wholeheartedly agree with Marty that just because someone only takes cash doesn’t mean they are scammers. Most guys in this hobby are honest but you do watch out for the minority that are dishonest.

I agree....he should go back and see if he can locate the sellers. He is being very gracious about it. If the sellers are TCA members, there should be some recourse for him. He says it is his fault, but the box indicates that the loco has TMCC electronics, so the sellers misrepresented the item. The hard part will be proving it, but I hope he tries.

My $.02 - Unfortunately, even if his video is 100% truth, and he was deceived, his position is still hearsay, and the three sellers can say “We told him it was nonpowered”, and end of story. Admittedly, pressure from the show’s sponsors/organizers may swing it in his favor of financial recovery.
And, as everyone has heard, ad nauseum, “There’s my side, there’s your side, and the truth lies somewhere in between.”

I have a similar story.  I bought a great looking Santa Fe Diesel Locomotive in C8+ condition on Stout Auctions.  The description never said anything about being a dummy unit, it said 'diesel locomotive.  The picture underneath shows rollers, but there was no box to see the side flap description.  I got it for a great price, at which point I looked up the model number on Greenbergs.  There it clearly said it was a dummy unit.  I contacted Stouts before they issued an invoice and told them I wouldn't have bought it if I knew it was a dummy unit.  They looked into it and said that yep, their description was lacking, so they cancelled the sale.  Stouts have been helpful on several occasions.

I saw the unit in their next auction where it was clearly worded as a dummy unit.

Yeah, I agree with Mark. At $240 I'd say that's a fair price for a dummy unit though. We'll never know the whole story.  Again, I've had buyers remorse a few times, and could only blame myself. Just make it a learning lesson, and move on. I bought a MTH z2400  from a guy that  insisted it worked. I was so excited by the price, got and tested at home... Dud. Thankfully it was a $35 dollar fix from a great local mth repair shop. Ah, the joys of a hobby that's supposed to take you away from the stress of life.

"his position is still hearsay, and the three sellers can say “We told him it was nonpowered”, and end of story."

If the label on the box does in fact state in writing that the loco is TMCC-equipped, that should supersede anything that was said. If nothing was done to document that the item had been altered from its original state, I bet he would win--especially if the sellers are TCA members. The TCA now has Operational Standards as part of its grading system; and part of being a TCA member is agreeing to accurately represent what you are selling and to be fair and prompt in your dealings.

All of these aspects of the transaction notwithstanding, it would be nice if the sellers would simply do the right thing here and reverse the transaction if they are approached about this. It's always sad to see this, especially with someone new to the hobby.

May I offer another take:

I didn't have time to watch the entire video, but I think I picked up the salient points.

Is it at all possible the seller didn't intentionally 'scam' Ray? In other words, did the seller know it was a gutted loco that didn't run? I'm not trying to absolve the seller in any way.  I've  seen in other shows meets, for musical gear, where a seller will buy  items for the purpose of selling at a show, and not know something was amiss.  For example, a guitar cab loaded with the wrong speakers.  SO they unwittingly sell something that is not what it appears to be..

Anyway, I hope Ray can get some answers.

Indeed, it’s unfortunate what happened to this newbie. But, I’ve always thought train shows were over-rated and haven’t been to one in over 7 years. What train stuff I don’t get from my LHS, is purchased from eBay, Trainz, or Trainworld.

I saw this the other night and it was tough to watch - I felt really bad for the guy - the whole thing seems somewhat bizarre with the cut wires etc - however wasn’t the price kind of cheap for a powered high end scale diesel - not defending the sellers but did they assume he knew it was a dummy locomotive??? - what’s with the cut wires ???

Hey the good news - he’s now a YouTube sensation - everyone on the planet will be watching his upcoming videos 😊 - sorry

I guess either this guy didn't handle this locomotive at all before they boxed it up or he's so new that he wouldn't have noticed how light it was, or had the forethought to open the control panel and inspect the switches etc.  I can't imagine buying almost anything without a close visual once-over and any seller that won't let you handle and inspect the merchandise is a big red flag.  Also, many / most train shows I've been to have a table where you can test various gauge locomotives, but perhaps this guy didn't notice or the show didn't have one.  Some of the junk they try to sell at these shows might not work even if it did have all it's guts intact.