I contacted them asking about what would be next or if they had a list of pre orders and nothing. No reply. Just wondering if some of you are aware of the next offerings or plausible offerings from them, or if they are gauging any interests in particular projects in O.
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C&O 2-8-8-2 apparently has been built, as some prototype models have shown up, in websites like brasstainsdotcom. Other then that, Precision scale has been quiet, o gauge-wise, for at least 10 years. The C&O locomotive had been promised for at least 5 years. They are still doing HO.
The 2-8-8-2 locomotive has shown up? My dealer has said nothing to me asking if I would like to re-order. I cancelled my order YEARS ago when after it was just one delay after another. Same story with the Santa Fe 5001 class they were supposed to be offering Years ago that I had 3 reservations for.
What I find weird is that they don't even have a list for reservations, how can they figure what's profitable unless customers can cast a vote?
I think they are stuck in a holding pattern.
Who is left importing high end, high detail, high fidelity to prototype O Scale models these days ? Only Glacier Park, Key, Overland for diesels, Kohs. 20 years ago there was an abundance of importers.
I suppose I could guess why PSC left O Scale (too low volume) - anyone know additional information? Fortunately I bagged a good group of fine O Scale models during the salad days of the '80's, 90's and early 00's.
SANTIAGOP23 posted:What I find weird is that they don't even have a list for reservations, how can they figure what's profitable unless customers can cast a vote?
I heard from a pretty reliable source they will be selling off or closing down their detail parts business sometime in the near future. I think they are looking to retire. The 2-8-8-2 was wrought with problems/corrections that slowed it down and still bears some uncorrected issues. I think they just wore out trying to get the builder to do it right.
BH
mark s posted:Who is left importing high end, high detail, high fidelity to prototype O Scale models these days ? Only Glacier Park, Key, Overland for diesels, Kohs. 20 years ago there was an abundance of importers.
I suppose I could guess why PSC left O Scale (too low volume) - anyone know additional information? Fortunately I bagged a good group of fine O Scale models during the salad days of the '80's, 90's and early 00's.
Sorry, but I thought Overland quit O scale?
E-Joe - The only diesels I follow are old ones.....made by Key, Like E5's.......so I take your word for it, Overland is completely out of the O Scale marketplace.
Sure hope someone takes over the PSC parts inventory, if true.
I'm not sure Mark. I should have posted it as a question? Buyers were hoping for another modern engine like an ES44. It was posted that Overland wouldn't be in O scale any longer. Maybe I read it wrong? Was it just that they weren't making that engine?
Perhaps if Precision sells their lost wax casting business, the next supplier will sell the castings at better prices. They have really raised their prices . It just does not pay to re detail models anymore. You can buy later runs with the super castings already on it.
I was a long time customer buying their castings. Priced me and probably others out
My hope they retire in Good Health and the new supplier prices the castings a little more fairly.
Don't look for castings to get cheaper. With fewer customers wanting them the cost of producing, cleaning and painting them per unit will go up. In China, the new Chinese EPA is clamping down on all small companies, and I mean ALL. If they are found to emit smoke, odors or chemicals they are promptly shut down. As it is right now if we want nickel plated parts it has to come from Korea.
I hope China is able to clean up their environment. Seems that now they are serious.
Also, they are not accepting trash from the US anymore. They used to use the trash to get recyclables. They have enough recyclables now coming from their own consumers.
Sorry to get off topic, but I hope Mark Morganson (President of PSC) finds his sweet spot in life.
Scott
Originally posted by up148:
I heard from a pretty reliable source they will be selling off or closing down their detail parts business sometime in the near future.
I think they are looking to retire.
Oh NOT not again! First Weaver models, Custom Signals, now this! I need to stock up on parts and complete my projects!
Soon no more brass and Shapeways will be the only sources for fragile custom parts... 
lovely! Just... Lovely!
I went on-line to get brass rods for cooling coils. Detail Associates has nice .040 wire, and it used to be a couple bucks at the local hobby store. On-line they tell me list price is $5.20 for four, and shipping is $9.95.
This is the way it is going. Four of these rods weigh just over .2 ounces. That is $416 per pound of brass. If you include shipping, it comes to roughly $1248/lb.
I can buy an Alco power reverser from Weizman (sp?) for nine bucks. A bargain in comparison.
Scott is correct. Nobody can make a living selling trinkets that appear to be grossly overpriced. The days of nice lost wax, and even raw brass, are drawing to a close.
My other hobby - flying antique airplanes - is also seeing a sunset, except for the very wealthy. I guess I lived at exactly the right time.
Thank you Scott for continuing to provide the wonderful projects you are doing for us. It’s such a privilege and I am grateful.
The two E7s os Sunset that I just got from the Seacrest auction that are beautiful. Thanks to Scott. I guess I still don't understand how he produces the locos and ships when he says they will, eg. Atlas.
Keep it up, Scott.
Dick
I posted "Mark", but should have been more clear, that I am talking about "Mark Morganson" president of PSC. Not anyone else.
I just saw in the current episode of BrassTrains.com Monday Morning Express that they said in their next episode (9/25), there is a planned Skype interview with Mark Morganson of PSC to give an update on what PSC has in store for the future. Maybe worth sending an email to the BrassTrains staff to add a question to specifically address PSC’s future O Scale plans.
https://livestream.com/brasstr...mondaymorningexpress
Scott
The last time I spoke with Mark about 1/48 was at Caboose when I was brass department head over a year ago the answer on O scale standard gauge was no more.
He is however doing On3 as evidence of the recently arrived WSLCo shays at the NNGC and they are drop dead gorgeous
Erik - From your brass dept experience, did On3 sell better then standard gauge O Scale models (of course, you were in the state which is the narrow gauge capital of the world) ? Any leak on why PSC is abandoning std gauge?
Thank goodness for Sunset 3rd Rail, our last, best hope !!
Mark,
I vaguely recall when sitting in on a conversation at Caboose with Roger Clark (PSC sales rep) and a client on a canceled PSC project in standard gauge steam due to production issues and headaches versus time invested and the such. This was maybe 2010-2011. The last steam SG projects I felt are absolutely fabulous. These Boo Rim models and the best of their prototype to date, period albeit with all the non-operating issues common to these incredibly detailed monsters and buyers not accepting the issues rightfully so. I managed after repeat trips to pro rebuilders getting all my PSC Boo Rim steam to run flawlessly and they do once you tweak. And as ChipR always said you tune your model to your layout or was he quoting John Armstrong either way this is true.
As far as Narrow Gauge sales versus SG; the SG was always clickie and slow to move while On3 was always out the door.
Thanks for the response, Erik. I have a batch of PSC Burlington locomotives, and they just "feel" like the prototypes. Hefty and heavy.
Guess we won't be seeing too many of their kind any time soon.
It probably didn't help that what ever PSC or any other importer brought in, there was a barrage of complaints. I'm sure importers get fed up with that. We humans, as a species, are an unappreciative lot !!
They seem to be very prolific in importing ''HO'' scale trains. Are those incorrect also? Is the ''O'' scale builder not the same one as the ''HO'' builder? Are they new to this? Why is it so hard to get right after all these years? They killed the proposed Santa Fe #5001 class. Just asking?
It is the size of the market, not the difficulty of getting the first piece done correctly. And many high end collectors are not operators, so they get away with sub-par machinery, for the most part.
I had a PSC Cab Forward. Flimsoid. Traded it for a pair of USH models.
From your videos, I can tell your M-68 runs like a Patek, Erik.
I started this thread because I was not aware of brass until 2014. I'm 31, and eager to acquire more brass, but clearly there just isn't as much offerings as in the previous decade or so. I like to think that there is more young blood as well as regular buyers that would love to see PSC offer more stuff.
SANTIAGOP23 posted:From your videos, I can tell your M-68 runs like a Patek, Erik.
Indeed maybe like a Philippe I say more a Panerai 
... I’m 43 and want these things.
Bob2 got it spot on
Hey my 3 year old will be into brass... he’s a model railroader now.
too cute!
You need to post this over on the Scenery section next time someone asks about how to spread ballast....so simple a child can do it!
SANTIAGOP23 posted:I started this thread because I was not aware of brass until 2014. I'm 31, and eager to acquire more brass, but clearly there just isn't as much offerings as in the previous decade or so. I like to think that there is more young blood as well as regular buyers that would love to see PSC offer more stuff.
For what it's worth, I heard more than one person at this weekend Indy O & S Scale Meet, state the PSC has just sold their entire inventory to Mr. Bill Davis. Thus, one might assume that PSC is no longer in the "brass models" nor "brass parts" business?
Well, the jives with what I was told a month ago and poster here 10 days ago. Bill Davis buying is a blessing so the line doesn't disappear. Just not sure if Bill is buying and just selling it off or if he'll add it to his line of detail parts and cast new as needed?
BH
If the above is true, THANK God! I hope that Bill posts a picture of each part so we can REALLY see what we are buying!
Does anyone know if it's true?
I hope it's true also, we all need those parts to be available.
I phoned Mark today and he said he sold Bill Davis only the spare parts from PSC's previous import projects.
I know, a novel concept actually asking one of the participants directly.
Mark Mogenson is interviewed on this week's Monday Morning Express from BrassTrains.com. Brass Trains has taken receipt of the C&O 2-8-8-2's in O Scale; Mark noted that they took an excruciatingly long time to be completed (7 years). He cited a number of HO projects, 90 ton shays, RF&P Berks, etc., but, alas, nothing in O Scale. He gave no indication of retiring.....good news ! So I guess one might presume that maybe some more O Scale might be possible.
Saw that, Mark. I had the same impression. Perhaps simpler projects with wider appeal, not everything has to be a head ache of a steam engine! Protocraft and American Scale Models seem to be doing well with their boxcars, and Sunset just keeps putting out wonderful stuff. Key did their FT's and cab forwards, and seems to be getting close to producing the CZ. Hopefully they'll say something about O in the near future.
I suggested to Mark about 10 or so years ago, during the period when he/PSC was doing the On3 die cast locomotive line, that he do the Wabash Mogul in die cast. After all, PSC had all the castings from the old Kemtron line, which produced the original Wabash Mogul kit in 1959. Mark felt there was not enough commercial draw for that project to succeed - my bet was the opposite. Of course, my money wasn't on the line. But die cast was a way for PSC to bring in some low-cost, pretty well detailed O Scale locomotives. Maybe that might be a direction that they could go, again.
I would vote for a die cast SP S-9 switcher in 17/64. Bet the market for that is just slightly smaller than the Wabash Mogul.
Banengo posted:I phoned Mark today and he said he sold Bill Davis only the spare parts from PSC's previous import projects.
I know, a novel concept actually asking one of the participants directly.
Well, it works best if you know the fellow. I don't know him from Adam, so not sure I would get the same info. But, always good to check with the source.
Butch
NOTICE
Precision (PSC) is still in the parts/castings and importing business (for now).
American Scale Models/Bill Davis has purchased only the repair parts supplied to PSC by the Korean builders for each model project (in HO and O),plus the associated decals for same. ...similar to the purchase of same from Overland years ago.
PSC has announced the C&O H7 is their last O scale project. Overland is out of the brass business. It is likely that very few models,if any will be seen in the future from the other top builders too.
Significant price increases (Koreans want flat screens and SUVs too) plus waning demand (attrition) and competition from plastic can be cited as reasons for the abovementioned;although plastic is becoming expensive too. Perhaps we are witness to the end of the brass era?
While the hobby is by no means "dead"; and actually rather vibrant of late,the downward curve of new imports intersects neatly with the slowly declining amount of new entrants in to O scale modeling,IMHO.
Keep Em Rolling Till The Wheels Fall Off!
Sincerely,Bill Davis
Bad news re: PSC exiting O Scale. But.......Bill, you are still bringing in brass. (I have purchased a water column and an Erie express boxcar of late). How does your activity reconcile with your observations ?
bob2 posted:
I would vote for a die cast SP S-9 switcher in 17/64. Bet the market for that is just slightly smaller than the Wabash Mogul.
Bob,
Just a thought based on NO particular knowledge, but i would guess the chances of getting one in 1/48 are only minimally better (translated as: Don't hold your breath!)
Simon
Mark,
Thanks for your inquiry. Based on my own limited experience,the prices quoted for new projects prohibits me from continuing except for accessory items (oil/water columns,trucks,bridges,etc.).
There are also issues of quality control of late from some of the larger engine builders/importers. The latest bigboy model in HO is an example of same.
Regards,
Bill
Thanks for the response, Bill. Was just on Ebay, and noted that the prices for brass o scale items are absolutely plummeting. Does this have an indirect affect on new brass imports? In other words, is the floor collapsing for pricing ?
I did not know there was a problem with the lagest ''Big Boy'' in HO scale. when I changed to O scale (2003) the last one was by Precision Craft Models if memory serves me correct. Was there one done since the?
ASM148 posted:NOTICE
Precision (PSC) is still in the parts/castings and importing business (for now).
American Scale Models/Bill Davis has purchased only the repair parts supplied to PSC by the Korean builders for each model project (in HO and O),plus the associated decals for same. ...similar to the purchase of same from Overland years ago.
PSC has announced the C&O H7 is their last O scale project. Overland is out of the brass business. It is likely that very few models,if any will be seen in the future from the other top builders too.
Significant price increases (Koreans want flat screens and SUVs too) plus waning demand (attrition) and competition from plastic can be cited as reasons for the abovementioned;although plastic is becoming expensive too. Perhaps we are witness to the end of the brass era?
While the hobby is by no means "dead"; and actually rather vibrant of late,the downward curve of new imports intersects neatly with the slowly declining amount of new entrants in to O scale modeling,IMHO.
Keep Em Rolling Till The Wheels Fall Off!
Sincerely,Bill Davis
Thank you Mr Davis
Erik
Simon - my post with that switcher was a crummy attempt at a joke. I was making an unsupported point about the market for the Wabash Mogul.
The Wabash is such a small teakettle that, even in 17/64, it would look small next to a K-28 Mikado.
I would say that the days of diecast anything in O Scale are over. Even Lionel is going to built-up brass for their high end products.
Low prices for certain items on ebay reflect several factors.
One, the sale of an ebay auction item depends on more than one person bidding to increase the price; and if the right people arent tuned in at that particular time,the result can be a lower price. Others are just selling models to get rid of them and havent a financial need to get top dollar....
Two,condition of items often dictate the final value (used vs like new)..as well as the particular sellers reputation or lack thereof.
Three, it seems we are currently witnessing the great divide in pricing based on older/plain and used models (soft prices) vs. later run higher detail/quality models (steady or increasing prices). However, the softness in price of some of the earlier models (Max Gray and US Hobbies especially) is creating an excellent opportunity for anyone entering the hobby or who wants some of the best rugged quality and well engineered models available.
It seems the money (and price increases) are gravitating towards the high-end and rare models and older models in mint condition which were in short supply when made (i.e new models: Kohs,Car & Loco Shop,some Key-- and old models: Max Gray SP5000,L-131,T&P 2-10-4 etc.).
An exception is an interesting phenom which when Sunset or the like offers a copy of an existing top model (or a model is done in plastic of same),people tend to panic and dump the top models which causes a price drop. This is usually when the knowledgeable collectors buy. Often the prices for the top models go back up in time....this is currently playing out with some Key diesels which in a few cases are selling for 1/2 price.... read: opportunity....other Key diesels (not done in plastic etc.) are selling at premiums still.
In good condition, no matter which model, the price of new brass and quotes for same makes even $300 freight cars look cheap....try and get a brass hopper with Yoder type quality made in Korea today for less than $300 cost.....I just received quotes for a pickle car between $5-700....
In short,while some prices may seem high, they are relative bargains for what you are getting vs the cost to produce same in todays dollars. When the importers finally give up due to quality and price issues, the existing supply of models in good condition may increase significantly in price...
There are actually several guys,not necessarily model railroaders, who are collecting brass models (and other collectibles),not as an investment per se but as a store of value or tangible asset/inflationary hedge etc.....paper vs brass
Regards,
Bill
bob2 posted:Simon - my post with that switcher was a crummy attempt at a joke. I was making an unsupported point about the market for the Wabash Mogul.
The Wabash is such a small teakettle that, even in 17/64, it would look small next to a K-28 Mikado.
I would say that the days of diecast anything in O Scale are over. Even Lionel is going to built-up brass for their high end products.
Thought maybe you had snorted a few too many solder fumes! 
I don't follow Lionel, but if so, I find that amusing!
Simon
ASM148 posted:In good condition, no matter which model, the price of new brass and quotes for same makes even $300 freight cars look cheap....try and get a brass hopper with Yoder type quality made in Korea today for less than $300 cost.....I just received quotes for a pickle car between $5-700....
In short,while some prices may seem high, they are relative bargains for what you are getting vs the cost to produce same in todays dollars. When the importers finally give up due to quality and price issues, the existing supply of models in good condition may increase significantly in price...
There are actually several guys,not necessarily model railroaders, who are collecting brass models (and other collectibles),not as an investment per se but as a store of value or tangible asset/inflationary hedge etc.....paper vs brass
Regards,
Bill
I think I know a few of those brass hoarders!!!
Not sure I 'd want to be the one figuring out the brass market. It surely seems that bigger sells and that is why the recurring theme of big boys, cab forwards, H8's and the like. Not much interest in Moguls, ten wheelers or saddle tankers.
I'd love to know what a current state of the art brass Southern SU truss rod box car or UTLX X3 tank car would retail for and to what quantities they would need to be built.
Thank you for taking the time to share your insight with us, Bill.
mark s posted:I suggested to Mark about 10 or so years ago, during the period when he/PSC was doing the On3 die cast locomotive line, that he do the Wabash Mogul in die cast. After all, PSC had all the castings from the old Kemtron line, which produced the original Wabash Mogul kit in 1959. Mark felt there was not enough commercial draw for that project to succeed - my bet was the opposite. Of course, my money wasn't on the line. But die cast was a way for PSC to bring in some low-cost, pretty well detailed O Scale locomotives. Maybe that might be a direction that they could go, again.
I don't know Mr. Mogansen personally, but from what I have read, projects are not started without sufficient reservations, thus the (sometimes) long span of time producing them. I certainly CAN'T fault the man for that, as he is not in business to lose money. I thought the MMI (Mountain Model Imports) idea of cast bodies with added details was a good one, but I don't recall seeing much of it come to fruition. I specifically recall a NYC smaller steamer that I might have had interest in, but I'm pretty sure it was canceled fairly early on. I am guessing if he had an "O" scale project with enough firm reservations it would get built.
bob2 posted:I would say that the days of diecast anything in O Scale are over. Even Lionel is going to built-up brass for their high end products.
I went on Lionel's website looking for a part to be used on a brass model. I didn't see anything that I'd call "Built up" brass. I did see die cast with added brass details!
Simon
Think Mark and Precision Scale did pretty much the entire DRGW narrow gauge roster in MMI/die cast. I purchased a K37 and a K27. They cost someting like $550, which at the time was a wild steal. That's what prompted me to suggest the Wabash Mogul, as I thought it would meet a continuing need for small locomotives in O Scale - - - and at a very digestabile price ! Alas, guess that's gone forever, or at least the appreciable future.
Lionel has one brass loco in the works that was a buy direct deal no dealers involved. This is like Broadway Ltd Imports brass hybrids with a brass body on a diecast drive. Touted as the best of both worlds. They havent been delivered yet so we dont know how good they are.
PSC must have been doing something right in the past. At least one person was willing to give $5075 for a PSC C&O H7a!
It was only 1 of a total production of 4 of that particular model. Might explain the high price.
I think Dan Glasure and Brasstrains has done more to revitalize the brass train business (mostly HO) that anyone in the past 20 years. They extract top $$$ out of anything they sell and the more rare the higher the price. I'm sure most is due to their worldwide exposure and professional manner. I had my doubts when they started up this venture, but you can't argue with success.
BH
That didn't last a song!
The 4-12-2 l that sold for $4000 the other day went quick too!!!
Too bad each and every model isn't as well detailed as the H7a and UP Three Cylinder. They was simply gorgeous but then again for $4-5k they should be!
Long live the Brass Locomotive and cars too.
Mr Davis, your awesome man!! You’ve made some dreams come true for me.
Rule292 posted:PSC must have been doing something right in the past.
How about a pile of VERY nice well detailed freight cars!
Simon
Simon Winter posted:Rule292 posted:PSC must have been doing something right in the past.
How about a pile of VERY nice well detailed freight cars!
Simon
I wouldn't know. I hate brass train cars.
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