Nickel Plate Road 587

645 posted:

 

An organization such as IRM (Illinois Railway Museum) is in the best position these days to operate equipment as they own the land, buildings, equipment and demonstration railroad. There is nothing like having full control over everything. No, IRM is not perfect but they do very well with what they have and keep making improvements to the place.

Not only do they own the right of way and museum campus, but have been buying adjacent "buffer" properties to prevent suburbia from encroaching and complaining about the noise.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

645 posted:

 

An organization such as IRM (Illinois Railway Museum) is in the best position these days to operate equipment as they own the land, buildings, equipment and demonstration railroad. There is nothing like having full control over everything. No, IRM is not perfect but they do very well with what they have and keep making improvements to the place.

Not only do they own the right of way and museum campus, but have been buying adjacent "buffer" properties to prevent suburbia from encroaching and complaining about the noise.

These quiet zones going up are a load of crap for multiple reasons. First, the railroad was there WAY before the residents were there, and it takes them to work in some cases. Also, they didn't have to build right next to a   3-track main and suddenly say: "It's so noisy here! We need to send a complaint." Quiet zones are dangerous too. There have been many cases of people crossing the tracks at commuter stations and getting hit because they don't hear the train. But they should still be paying attention.

Rusty

I would love to see 765 run to IRM from Chicago. The museum grounds are adequate for an excursion, with enough space for photo runbys, an even surface for passengers to unload, a place to turn 765 around, and enough entertainment for passengers. I don't know if 765 will fit under the wires though, or if UP will let them run on their tracks. 

645 posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

I would love to see 765 run to IRM from Chicago. The museum grounds are adequate for an excursion, with enough space for photo runbys, an even surface for passengers to unload, a place to turn 765 around, and enough entertainment for passengers. I don't know if 765 will fit under the wires though, or if UP will let them run on their tracks. 

Union Pacific policy is only UP owned and operated steam can operate on UP trackage. That is 844 - and 4014 if/when it is restored to operational status in the future. 3985? Slim chance of 3985 seeing operate again but might be possible after 4014 is done?

Remember that SP 4449 has an excellent record operating on the Southern Pacific but after UP took the Espee over it has not operated on UP regardless if it was ex-SP or original UP trackage. If it weren't for BNSF (and the P&W shortline) 4449's operations would really be limited. If 4449 can't operate on UP they sure aren't going to allow 765 to do so.

 

To be clear, the Union Pacific has NEVER "turned down" the SP 4449 group from ANY operations on UP. The main fact is, the SP 4449 group has NEVER asked the UP to "operate 4449 on their lines! There really isn't any suitable locations on the former SP lines in Oregon to operate one day excursions to anyway. 

645 posted:

Hot Water posted:

To be clear, the Union Pacific has NEVER "turned down" the SP 4449 group from ANY operations on UP. The main fact is, the SP 4449 group has NEVER asked the UP to "operate 4449 on their lines! There really isn't any suitable locations on the former SP lines in Oregon to operate one day excursions to anyway. 

Thank you for setting me straight on the facts regarding 4449 potentially operating on the UP - thought it was asked at least once after UP took over the Espee.

I did meet Mr. Ed Dickens once very briefly a few years ago and subject of SP 4449 and other non-UP steam operating on UP came up. Mr. Dickens told me at that time only UP owned and maintained steam is permitted to operate on UP trackage.

Well, that may be HIS "policy" but prior to the retirement of Steve Lee, the UP actually ASKED our group (SP 4449) on two different occasions to join their 844 in operations. The first time, back in 1999, was the dedication of the J. R. Davis Yard in Roseville (which was eventually delayed enough so that just UP 844 and 3985 handled the big event), and the second time was for the double header operation in 2007 out of Tacoma, Washington.

Tipton is a true "dead end".  There have been several blocks of track removed along with a grade crossing or two.  No small issue to reconnect to the former NKP.  

As a former supporter of the ITM, I'm disgusted by the whole mess.  Wish I knew more about what is really going on.

Mallard4468 posted:

As a former supporter of the ITM, I'm disgusted by the whole mess.  Wish I knew more about what is really going on.

A very sad situation - a steaming pile that will take a small miracle to undo.  

For those that want more information on the problems at the Indiana Transportation Museum, see the Indiana Railroads Bull Session Forum.  There are a couple different threads of information and plenty of bickering and finger pointing to go along with it.   Unless something dramatic happens, the best thing that could happen to 587 would probably be for it to come to Fort Wayne.   Not saying it would or could or should, but at least it would be in safe hands that know how to take care of it, and at some point it could at least be properly displayed, if not operated.

No matter where it might go, it can't go by rail. It would have to be trucked. BIG Bucks...

Still not cheap, but what about trucking it to Tipton  and either putting it on the rails or on  a flat car?   Wonder if the HHPA would allow someone to do a one time move to pull it closer to Tipton to reduce the trucking distance?

645 posted:

Also wonder what will become of NKP GP7 426 (which was specifically ordered for the Indy-Tipton line that ITM used) and NKP business car #1? Far as I'm aware the 426 is still operational. Glad I got my shots of it running on the line to Tipton a few years back!

I rode in the cab of 426 in 2015 on the Fairtrain, the last year too.

 

Also at ITM and not well known is restored / operational Monon SW1 #50 which is a war baby built in 1942:

That locomotive was the FIRST diesel the Monon owned, yet it's hardly used.

The latest in the saga is here: http://www.insideindianabusine...te-proposal-rankings

Such a shame what has occurred, as I have many fond memories of taking my kids to see the 587 during the State Fair, arrive and depart the station in Fishers, Indiana and ride it to the fair in the mid 1990's.

The Indiana Transportation Museum is now looking to potentially relocate to Logansport, Indiana: http://itm.org/indiana-transpo...ation-in-logansport/

Another update: http://www.indystar.com/story/...-greenway/525141001/

I'm not sure this is good news, as the Fair Train was the biggest fund raiser for the ITM to help fund the 587.

The whole thing is as close to a total disaster as it can be.  I feel the notion of running trains only north from Noblesville is a loser proposition, and I am less than convinced that this Logansport idea will amount to anything either.  There are lots of people at fault here, but ultimately, the governments of Noblesville and Fishers sold their constituents down the river.  The Deputy Mayor of Noblesville was caught red handed behaving in a most unethical way, but even that revelation was unable to halt the momentum.

All you have to do is visit the gorgeous MONON TRAIL with all of its resident and tourist based economic activity to figure out why the public officials in Noblesville want to emulate that............in their minds they ARE looking after their constituents.  

Except that in this case the general public seems to be siding with keeping the railroad in place.  At the very least its a 50-50 thing, and BOTH side could get what they want, but the local governments don't seem willing to even DISCUSS the idea.  This is the typical government move of drawing the conclusion and then molding the evidence to fit the conclusion.  In Fort Wayne, they just keep hiring consultants until they get one that gives them the answer they want, and then they run out and either say, "hey, look at this great idea" as if it had never occurred to them, OR they run out and say "see we told you so, this consultant says we're right!"  As much as I would like to see the riverfront development in Fort Wayne, and by extension, Headwaters Junction, I'm already getting a little disgusted with the way this thing is getting strong armed through the process, and any dissent be ****ed.....  Neither the Richard or the Henry administration have/had much use for opinions that differ from theirs.
 

Dieselbob posted:

  In Fort Wayne, they just keep hiring consultants until they get one that gives them the answer they want, and then they run out and either say, "hey, look at this great idea" as if it had never occurred to them, OR they run out and say "see we told you so, this consultant says we're right!"

Can you be more specific?

The Harrison project is the one that I can mention.   There have been a couple other ones that I don't feel at liberty to discuss.  I'll just say that a close friend's brother in law is a major player in the local media scene. (Lots of stories strictly OFF the record).  I would also throw in the totally unrealistic cost estimates that were put out to sell the county on Citizen's Square.  If the REAL costs had been divulged, that project might have faced a LOT more opposition.  There was also a LOT of money wasted on change orders to satisfy the egos of local government employees and elected officials (the mayor included) that should have NEVER been allowed. 

Well, as far as riverfront development goes, I can say that that's not so much the case (hiring consultants until someone says the right thing, etc). It's a shame they had to hire a riverfront consultant to give HWJ any more credence than it had already earned, though