My comments echo MartyE. The thought has never have even crossed my mind that Lionel would use DCS. They have their own Command System. Why on earth would they license a system from someone else?
Beta was arguably a better format but the world settled on VHS. Now they're both gone. Scary
I also embrace all three systems: Legacy, DCS, and DCC.
Unfortunately I don't own any of them, but maybe I will someday.
I have and run both systems.....enjoy them both.......and, I predict, something with Blue Tooth capability (or something yet undiscovered or thought of) will come out someday that runs both and it be the end of the of the competition.......
Peter
Put me in the Legacy camp. All my engines are either Legacy or TMCC, As for my home layout…….I don’t have one. I run my trains at my train club. My first club the Black Diamond Society of Model Engineers had both DCS and Legacy. My second club the Delaware Seaside Railroad Club in Shelbyville Delaware has both DCS and Legacy so I have used both systems, in fact I have the DCS apt on my cell phone….in fact Mike Wolf put it on my phone at York the year they introduced it. To be honest at the Delaware club we did need GRJ’s Legacy signal booster which greatly improved the Legacy signal especially in the tunnel. One thing Legacy never told me is “you train is not on the tracks” other than that both systems have worked fine together. I see no need for DCS or DCC in a Lionel engine.
JohnB
@JohnB posted:One thing Legacy never told me is “you train is not on the tracks” other than that both systems have worked fine together. I see no need for DCS or DCC in a Lionel engine.
That's because TMCC/Legacy doesn't know if your engine is on the tracks or not.
I could easily say, "One thing DCS never did was send one engine flying while the other is dragging it's wheels in a lash-up."
Again, each system has pros and cons. Nitpicking over the details to make yourself feel better about which one you've chosen to become a fanboy of is a sad way to enjoy the hobby.
I'd just point out that brand allegiance has less to do with Operating System allegiance than timing. If you were quick to embrace the new technology, you had TMCC. I installed mine in early 1997. And once I had it, I wasn't about to buy, install, and run a second system that basically did the same things. And at that time I had never heard of DCC except that there were these guys at shows with glasses and pocket protectors who walked around layouts plugging in to jacks all over the place.
And the separate operating systems might have exacerbated the brand wars... as folks (like me) look at Operating Systems like the way we look at track: something that's necessary, but not worth spending a lot of money on... which is why I still have some 1940's era switches.
I'm guessing that internal Lionel customer research shows that folks would buy A command system ONCE... like a transformer. That's why they went to the LionChief(Plus)(2.0) model.
Jon
@rdj92807 posted:I use both DCS and Legacy. IMO DCS is way better, and I run my Lionel trains with it most of the time. To hear the Lionel folks make such arrogant comments, ****es me off. Lionel has more than 3 ways to run their trains now, which are incompatible and down right stupid. They should not be throwing stones in a glass house. Maybe Lionel should try to figure out a way to make $2000 engines work when you open the box for the first time. That would be more productive.
rd,
Q1: Define incompatible. Specifically what are the more-than-three incompatible methods? How are they incompatible?
Q2: In what way(s) is DCS "way better" than Lionel's offerings?
(I'm asking so that we, and in particular newbies, might learn from your experience.)
Mike
It would be nice to have a single system across all O gauge, but that is not how we do it in America, haha.
I personally have stuck with Legacy, only because I loved the whole integration with their LCS system and Command switches, etc. and it is a nice eco system. Just my preference. I did give MTH's DCS a try but did no like it as much. But one of the main reasons I stuck with one system was to keep my spending down! HAHA. By sticking with one control system it cut my spending on engines down. What is everyone worried about though? There is a lot of DCS control system inventory, that will probably always be available somewhere, like eBay. Most engines have been done to death, so you can probably find any engine you are after on the secondary market in DCS. For me it is kind of cool, because I may see some MTH tooling I always wanted now in Legacy. So we will see. Either way both systems will be around a long time I think.
Plus I am not sure how they would squeeze both control systems inside the same engines? Not sure it is physically even possible. And it would certainly not be cost feasible to make the same engine in 2 different flavors for such a small, small market.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:But one of the main reasons I stuck with one system was to keep my spending down! HAHA. By sticking with one control system it cut my spending on engines down.
TRUTH.
Jon
I think inertia plays a significant role in which system people use, as mentioned above .
I made a choice 20 years ago that Lionel was getting to pricy for me at that time and I thought MTH had a nicer product detail wise less to looking and chose the MTH option as I mostly bought Rail King product line. I have progress to the Premier line and have looked at the high end Lionel stuff just not sure I want to make the transition at this point I have nothing negative to say about Lionel's system as I do not use it or own any locomotives that use it. I have a pretty good collection of Post War and will always be a Lionel Post War guy as that is what I grew up with. I chose MTH and DCS for price reasons at the time as I thought Lionel was to expensive for me at that time. Never gave any thought to using both.
This isn't any different than smack talk between sports teams; no big deal.
@Oman posted:This isn't any different than smack talk between sports teams; no big deal.
I think it’s more akin to unsportsmanlike conduct. I don’t recall Nick Foles (go birds) talking about how old and irrelevant Tom Brady was after winning Super Bowl LII.
Then Brady took his teams to victory in LIII and LV. Maybe, DCS will surprise us🤷🏻♂️
This was a live stream. This is why I never take a live call on my show. Everything goes into VoxPro so I can edit it before it hits the air. I edit myself in calls as much as the listener.
Jon
@TheRambles posted:I think I it’s more akin to unsportsmanlike conduct. I don’t recall Nick Foles (go birds) talking about how old and irrelevant Tom Brady was after winning Super Bowl LII.
Then Brady took his teams to victory in LIII and LV. Maybe, DCS will surprise us🤷🏻♂️
I think he spoke the truth as he sees it. And if he said at Lionel, then I suspect that many others at Lionel have come to the same conclusion. Does it come across as arrogant? Perhaps, but in a way it is refreshingly honest. We have many people here that are deeply invested in MTH: hobbyists with $$$ and emotional capital in locomotives and DCS , we have people who have done work on behalf of MTH, and we have dealers who earn a living selling MTH product. There is nothing wrong with any of that and to each his own. But all of that has limited the ability to really look with clarity at how our hobby, and MTH, are changing.
The other thing to keep in mind is that as MTH continues to slowly downsize, these kinds of discussions are probably not going away. We have crossed the Rubicon and the hobby is very different now then it was a couple of years ago. I personally think we are going to be fine and that the O gauge market will grow again. ( I bet York numbers will go up this year!)
But some changes are going to be difficult for some.
Peace
@Madockawando posted:I think he spoke the truth as he sees it. And if he said at Lionel, then I suspect that many others at Lionel have come to the same conclusion. Does it come across as arrogant? Perhaps, but in a way it is refreshingly honest. We have many people here that are deeply invested in MTH: hobbyists with $$$ and emotional capital in locomotives and DCS , we have people who have done work on behalf of MTH, and we have dealers who earn a living selling MTH product. There is nothing wrong with any of that and to each his own. But all of that has limited the ability to really look with clarity at how our hobby, and MTH, are changing.
It seems we have people deeply invested in Lionel as well, and sometimes they tend to get a little overbearing in their commentary on the topic.
My collection consists mostly of MTH locomotives as MTH has produced far more product in Boston and Maine/Maine Central liveries than Big L ever did. So my primary operating system is, and will continue to be, DCS. Coupled with TMCC, I can also run my Lionel and Atlas locos with my DCS handhelds. It's worked well for me for decades now and I see no reason to change it.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:It seems we have people deeply invested in Lionel as well, and sometimes they tend to get a little overbearing in their commentary on the topic.
Hmm… maybe. But I notice that you are not disagreeing with me! 😉
Having suffered through many hassles with DCC on our club's HO/On30 layout, I see no reason to declare that system to be the Gold Standard. I have TMCC but wish I didn't, and I have no desire for DCS. As they used to say, "A pox on all their houses!" Give me a transformer any day.