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Surefire posted:

Man, they boogered the stripe color. Looks much too bright. I don't understand how Lionel does this when the previous Legacy J was dead on. 

Just looked at my premier model. My premier has more of a maroon color. Lionels looks to be a shade of orange. Could be the lighting. Who knows. Havent seen the real 611. how about some 611 fans chiming in. Either way, I will keep my premier model and may even order the newest one in the latest MTH book.

Interestingly enough, Derek from Notch 6 did a Facebook live last evening featuring the Lionel TMCC J, and the new 611 J.  The stripes between the 2 were obviously different.  Then he brought in a 611 magnet that was sold by the Virginia Museum of Transportation gift shop, and painted in N&W 611 colors.  Interestingly enough the magnet, which in theory should match the real engine, matched the newer Legacy engine better than the older one.  Not saying it's scientific, just saying it's curious.  

I'll let Derek post that screen shot if he wishes or you can view the video on FB.  Approximately the 14 minute mark.  I still personally think the darker stripe is more prototypical of the engine but that just going off previous product and photographs but it makes you wonder a little.

But on another note, the Railsounds are pretty spectacular.  I always loved my TMCC Js whistle but Legacy takes it to a whole new level with the quilling whistle.  Derek does a great job at going through the sounds.

**Edited to reflect the Virginia Museum of Transportation.

Last edited by MartyE

If you haven’t seen the N&W Video “The Modern coal Burning Steam Locomotive” I implore you to take a half hour and watch it. 

https://youtu.be/9w48Bqq1JmE

Heres a screenshot from the video of #602 as she literally rolls out of the shop brand new. Now of course the film and age will distort the colors, but it as you watch the video pay attention to the passenger cars - notice the engine, RPOs, heavyweight coaches and streamlined cars are all different shades of N&W Tuscan?   

My opinion is this stripe color is pretty close to the Lionel Postwar 746, which a scale version was one of the offerings. Of course for the 600-603-611 it’s not what is expected and Lionel has said at York they would correct it when I talked to them about it.  Now we just need to see some pics of the freedom train version 

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Hi Guys,

That red stripe thing: one has to take into account the effects of the weather and exposure to ultraviolet rays of the sun. The new Lionel J, to me, has a freshly shopped red stripe.  More in appearance to the real J that is running at Strasburg.  Other previous models have the stripe a much darker red.  I'm not sure which is correct; I personally believe they are all correct.  It just depends on how long the engines were exposed to the outdoor elements.  Just my 2 cents

Steve

 

 

 

MartyE posted:
...But on another note, the Railsounds are pretty spectacular.  I always loved my TMCC Js whistle but Legacy takes it to a whole new level with the quilling whistle.  Derek does a great job at going through the sounds.

Totally agree the Railsounds are spectacular, BUT it still bugs me and feel Lionel dropped the ball when they decided (except for Vision Line items) to no longer specifically call out/identify the locomotive by its roadname and/or cab number (i.e. "Norfolk & Western 611..." or just ""611" ...you've got the green"".  This specific cab identification, IMHO gave Lionel locomotives a distinct advantage over everyone else especially when it came from their still superior quality sound system.  The irony is that MTH is now offering some specific roadname/cab/route/geographic sound info to some of their newer offerings.  The MTH sound quality or fidelity still does not meet or exceed Lionel, but MTH continues to reduce that gap.  As to why or the reasons Lionel decided to move to the "generic" tower-com announcements is debatable especially since sound editing seems much easier and likely at a relatively lower cost than what was available 15+ years ago.  My guess is that Lionel felt the generic route was the "K.I.S.S." method that had marginal cost savings and also reduced the chance of sound-file mix-up.

Nonetheless, that N&W J sounds great.

Failure to include loco specific crew talk is known as being CHEAP.

The sound files existed or are easily created.  Their absence can only be attributed to cost cutting/short sighted decision making.

Ironically, I feel that putting that feature back into non VL engines would actually sell MORE of them.   I'd have already purchased an NKP Legacy Mikado if it sounded different than my Legacy Great Northern Mikado.  It would also be "different" from my other NKP steam engines.

Weathering or fading or sunshine or whatever shouldn't enter in. It should match the Locomotive as built or as it was painted for Excursion service. Anything else is just giving Lionel a pass. This sort of stuff is ridiculous. There are so many Lionel items I would love to purchase but at this point I'm voting with my wallet. Until they get It together no way I'm preordering anything.

Scott Mann and 3rd rail for example consistently deliver trains that are EXACTLY as they said they would be. They are made in China as well. It can be done. For thousands of dollars it SHOULD be done. 

I'm passionate about this as I love Lionel, but they are not returning the sentiment. 

Last edited by Surefire
Surefire posted:

Weathering or fading or sunshine or whatever shouldn't enter in. It should match the Locomotive as built or as it was painted for Excursion service. Anything else is just giving Lionel a pass. This sort of stuff is beyond maddening. There are so many Lionel items I would love to purchase but at this point I'm voting with my wallet. Until they get It together no way I'm preordering anything.

Scott Mann and 3rd rail for example consistently deliver trains that are EXACTLY as they said they would be. They are made in China as well. It can be done. For thousands of dollars it SHOULD be done. 

I'm passionate about this as I love Lionel, but they are not returning the sentiment. 

I would LOVE for Scott Mann to produce an ACCURATE model of the 611. I would pre order one in a heart beat. The models produced to date from both MTH and Lionel have had multiple inaccuracies. I can do without the whistle smoke and premium Lionel sounds. I just want a scale model that is correct from the running gear to the paint color.  How about it, Scott? 

Last edited by J 611

I got my J today but haven’t opened it yet. I’m going to talk to Brian next week and probably ship it back. I’ve got to many Js to have a lemon that might or might not get corrected. What a mess. I’ve got the Legacy J with passenger cars. I paid 1300 to get whistle steam and “Spirit of Roanoke” on the side, not a stripe that no way resembles the previous Js. I’m very disappointed. It’s really too bad. 

N&W 1218 posted:

I got my J today but haven’t opened it yet. I’m going to talk to Brian next week and probably ship it back. I’ve got to many Js to have a lemon that might or might not get corrected. What a mess. I’ve got the Legacy J with passenger cars. I paid 1300 to get whistle steam and “Spirit of Roanoke” on the side, not a stripe that no way resembles the previous Js. I’m very disappointed. It’s really too bad. 

They'll make it right. I'm holding onto mine. 

Surefire posted:

Weathering or fading or sunshine or whatever shouldn't enter in. It should match the Locomotive as built or as it was painted for Excursion service. Anything else is just giving Lionel a pass. This sort of stuff is ridiculous. There are so many Lionel items I would love to purchase but at this point I'm voting with my wallet. Until they get It together no way I'm preordering anything.

Scott Mann and 3rd rail for example consistently deliver trains that are EXACTLY as they said they would be. They are made in China as well. It can be done. For thousands of dollars it SHOULD be done. 

I'm passionate about this as I love Lionel, but they are not returning the sentiment. 

An excellent, accurate, and fair assessment of today's State of the Union at Big Orange.

Surefire posted:

Weathering or fading or sunshine or whatever shouldn't enter in. It should match the Locomotive as built or as it was painted for Excursion service. 

Scott Mann and 3rd rail for example consistently deliver trains that are EXACTLY as they said they would be. 

 

Not always. Their SP Daylight passenger cars were delivered in weathered/faded colors, for example.

And for a little perspective on "The Real Thing," I took these pictures in May 2015 at the Spencer, NC shops when the 611 was put back into action after her refurbishment.   The stripe definitely isn't red, although the way the light hits it does make a difference.  I ordered a Spirit of Roanoke version of the new Lionel 611 but it has not yet been delivered.  Going back to Spencer on Sunday to see her again and might have the Lionel version to compare it to.  Stay tuned.  John

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Color and loco-specific radio chatter aside, the engine is beautiful and operates flawlessly.  I'm color impaired, if not color blind, and dislike all cab/radio chatter, except on the real thing.  My only "J", a Lionel product, was numbered as a "K", Old Number 746, and it was liquidated in the wake of my one and only divorce.

Much as I dislike O Gauge "cab/radio chatter", I was pleased to hear in the LS video that Lionel's Train Dispatcher is no longer describing the condition of the track but simply gives permission to move, in this case in accordance with signal indication.  This is as it should be, per the operating rules, and there's a very good reason for it.  Perhaps MTH will follow suit, then I might be able to endure the "chatter" portions of Eric's otherwise excellent reviews, rather than skip ahead.

I hope Lionel makes good on the color correction, etc.  The devil is in the details.

Tonight, I had a couple of cars on the test track and thought I would take a picture because it illustrates the difference in N&W Tuscan red on the left and PRR Tuscan red on the right.

Left is a Lionel N&W 18” Powhatan Arrow 18” Stationsounds Diner, on the right MTH PRR premier Madison observation car:

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The N&W Tuscan was more red.

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Last edited by Craignor
Craignor posted:

Tonight, I had a couple of cars on the test track and thought I would take a picture because it illustrates the difference in N&W Tuscan red on the left and PRR Tuscan red on the right.

Left is a Lionel N&W 18” Powhatan Arrow 18” Stationsounds Diner, on the right MTH PRR premier Madison observation car:

5E6F9210-3275-4DB5-BFB2-A0B49E383644

The N&W Tuscan was more red.

I have always thought that Lionel nailed the N&W Tuscan color with their 18" passenger cars. 

Craignor posted:

Tonight, I had a couple of cars on the test track and thought I would take a picture because it illustrates the difference in N&W Tuscan red on the left and PRR Tuscan red on the right.

Left is a Lionel N&W 18” Powhatan Arrow 18” Stationsounds Diner, on the right MTH PRR premier Madison observation car:

5E6F9210-3275-4DB5-BFB2-A0B49E383644

The N&W Tuscan was more red.

100% correct.  The Pennsy has more brown in it.

Okay First let me say I am not a N&W expert. I have the 2005 version J with 18" Aluminum cars and now the latest version in 611 Spirit and 600. I have not taken the 600 out of the box but from the pictures here it seems the same as all the other new versions.

So Here is a quick study I did overnight and this morning.

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Here id the 2005 TMCC version in the (back and left) and new Legacy version (front and right).

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As Norm stated the Marker light housing on the 2005 version (Right) is much better and appears to be more scale based on pictures.

As Hot Water has stated the housing around the headlight was painted in the past and all the pictures that I have found and the pictures I have seen on the recently shopped 611 all show black housings. This could be fixed with a steady hand and some paint. Not sure I have that.

Overall they are the same engine, except Marker lights.

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So here is the latest J with the N&W Inspection Car and you an see they do not match.

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Here is the new Tool Car and again not sure they match but it is slightly better than the Inspection Car.

So here are my thoughts. Most of the photo's here that many of you have posted look more like the 2005 version. But After looking through many books like N&W in Color(Morning Sun) and N&W Passenger Service(TLC) I find about 80% of the photos of J's look more like the new version than the older version (2005). You guys will have to look at the books yourself for proof as somebody I know will knock this post down if i show those. I like the 2005 version and will not sell it and it will be the only version that will match the 18" aluminum cars. Sorry I could not photograph those as others wanted, but they are in storage. I am not completely opposed to the new paint but I am going off photo's and I think like others the paint is too Pink or red depending on how you look at it. As far as the new Passenger sets that I have on order to match the new engine, I am thinking about putting those on hold. I need proof that they will match any engines I have now. What will Lionel do about the stripe on these J's - Will they change them as others have stated? The biggest problem as I see it is that we may end up with engines in one shade and passenger cars in another and everybody trying to sell it all off. After several of these sort of issues in a row, one thing is for sure on my end - My Lionel preorders are going to be cut way back. 

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Last edited by Blue Streak

Blue Streak,

Thanks for posting. I totally agree with you on preorders. Until I see and hear the product I’m not going to commit in the future. There will always be product out there somewhere, so I never worry about missing out. 

I bought the “Spirit of Roanoke” to pull more of my 18” passenger cars. Since the engine and cars don’t match, I’m sending mine back. I really don’t want to do that but Lionel has left me no choice. If I were interested in the 746 version then the color of the stripe is spot on. 

Does anyone have the 746 version? Does it have specific engine # crew talk or not? If so, I guess I could trade and get a 746.

Last edited by N&W 1218
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