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If a Norfolk and Western Class A were going to be produced in Kohs quality or better without waiting for 6 to 10 years, would this be of interest to those of you who collect fine art models?  Only 100 models would be produced, and, if they get 75 reservations, the project will be a go!  Kohs has the Class A as his next project, but, has yet to deliver the Union Pacific Big Boy.  Not only does he not have a delivery date, but does not even have any 3D castings or sub-assemblies to show.  The end of this year will be 5 years since the announcement of the Big Boy.

George diSanti

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I'm NOT disagreeing with any of the above, nor am am I trying to defend ANY importer, but I don't recall seeing anything brass "O" coming out of the "pipeline" too quickly. Add to that, getting a substantial number of people to agree on any project is a major task in itself. The BIG hope I see for future models is that technology will ease/speed the process.

Simon

up148 posted:

George,

FAM (Fine Art Models) produced 1/32 scale models, not 1/48.  It was run by Gary Kohs (George's brother) who passed away earlier this year.  Not sure of what will become of FAM, although I believe George Kohs as mentioned possibly producing some 1/32 and HO models in the future.

 

BH

FAM produced all the Lionel Smithsonian passenger cars in 1/48.

rdunniii posted:
up148 posted:

George,

FAM (Fine Art Models) produced 1/32 scale models, not 1/48.  It was run by Gary Kohs (George's brother) who passed away earlier this year.  Not sure of what will become of FAM, although I believe George Kohs as mentioned possibly producing some 1/32 and HO models in the future.

 

BH

FAM produced all the Lionel Smithsonian passenger cars in 1/48.

On that subject, I see some called/listed as FAM and some as Lionel Smithsonian. From what I read, FAM produced the Smithsonian stuff in both 2 and 3 rail, and then additional 2R cars were imported under FAM. Anyone care to expand on/correct this???

Thanks,

Simon

 

Last edited by Simon Winter

I’d like to see a builder with the Kohs level of detail and the sunset level of project length. If Kohs gets the big boy done, and I doubt he will, that will surly be his last model as nobody is willing to put huge deposits on models that take 10 years to deliver 5 of which are excuses for why it’s not done.

Hi,

The Class A deserves to be done better than what we've seen in the past.

I'd buy 2 or 3 if Sunset did them. If they did the 3 major variations in 50's era style I'd definitely get 3.

The high end stuff has gone pretty much out of my range for multiples, but If key announced it I'd buy one. Kohs wait has gotten too long for me to put that much money down. If he makes some other sort of ordering arrangements, I'm good for it.

 

Boy 16 years since posted as a new project and still no model.. Please go after him for mail fraud via the USPS , for none delivery of Merchandise.

Bob

7/06/07 - Our 'Big Boy' project continues to move towards production, unfortunately, not as quickly as most would like! The order of production will most likely change in the near future based on the lack of progress in obtaining reference material for other planned projects. If you are waiting for this project be assured that it will definitely be produced, we have over three thousand drawings on hand and a complete set of builder's photos, so all is in order to move ahead when the time is right. Be thinking about the versions that we should produce and do not hesitate to let us know your thoughts on that subject. Stay tuned for further developments in the coming weeks.

4/3/02 - This project has a new position in our schedule. A further update will be posted in the next few days.

Hot Water posted:
George diSanti posted:

I guess the question that needs to be asked is: 

What other importer besides Kohs would you like to see produce the Class A in a timely manner?

George diSanti

Sunset/3rd Rail. Maybe they would even make models of the last versions of the Class A, with all roller bearing rods.

Maybe they would make the ORIGINAL version of the Class A as shown below!

1200 Water Color

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Images (1)
  • 1200 Water Color

I have some MMW models in order and he gives reasonable time frames. Right now he is at 2 years since he started taking deposits and has painted production samples in hand and his models are actually in production. 

The other aforementioned fellow is looking at 7 years since he took money and 4 years of nothing being done 2 of those years the only thing being done is excuses being made for nothing being done. 

Hot Water posted:
George diSanti posted:

I guess the question that needs to be asked is: 

What other importer besides Kohs would you like to see produce the Class A in a timely manner?

George diSanti

Sunset/3rd Rail. Maybe they would even make models of the last versions of the Class A, with all roller bearing rods.

I wouldn't touch Sunset, although they have several supporters on this thread. I have seen their European 0 outline stuff in 'action', the SNCF 141r springs to mind. Id rather go without. 

Limey posted:
Hot Water posted:
George diSanti posted:

I guess the question that needs to be asked is: 

What other importer besides Kohs would you like to see produce the Class A in a timely manner?

George diSanti

Sunset/3rd Rail. Maybe they would even make models of the last versions of the Class A, with all roller bearing rods.

I wouldn't touch Sunset, although they have several supporters on this thread. I have seen their European 0 outline stuff in 'action', the SNCF 141r springs to mind. Id rather go without. 

Well, to each his own, I guess. I have about 20 Sunset/3rd Rail locomotives and they all run VERY well, and are capable of pulling nice long trains (the C&O H-8 handles 55 2-Bay hoppers, with coal loads, with no problems).

George diSanti posted:

I guess the question that needs to be asked is: 

What other importer besides Kohs would you like to see produce the Class A in a timely manner?

George diSanti

He does not do many models but Jimmy Booth seems to do well with getting out State of the Art steam locomotives. 

His interest is mostly in western roads so it might be a stretch doing a Southern locomotive.

I did request to him that he considers doing the Southern SU box car in brass (as well as the WFEX 63xxx truss rod reefers) since these are archetypal truss rod cars that have appeal and ran for a long time AND were common all over the US. 

Limey posted:
Hot Water posted:
George diSanti posted:

I guess the question that needs to be asked is: 

What other importer besides Kohs would you like to see produce the Class A in a timely manner?

George diSanti

Sunset/3rd Rail. Maybe they would even make models of the last versions of the Class A, with all roller bearing rods.

I wouldn't touch Sunset, although they have several supporters on this thread. I have seen their European 0 outline stuff in 'action', the SNCF 141r springs to mind. Id rather go without. 

Well, considering that was a 2005 import (13 years ago if what I learned on the internet is correct), a lot has changed with all importers and the level of improvement has been exponential. Several videos of this loco running on u-tube and it seems to be quite a runner.

I have no interest in one, but your sweeping statement about Sunset is a bit harsh in my book. They make quality locomotives and are always on the leading edge of technology. I own several and although not on the detail level of KOH's or KEY, they cost 1/3  the price or less.  For new locos, they are the best bang for your buck in the hobby.

 

BH

Last edited by up148
rheil posted:
Limey posted:

I wouldn't touch Sunset, although they have several supporters on this thread. I have seen their European 0 outline stuff in 'action', the SNCF 141r springs to mind. Id rather go without. 

What is outline stuff ?

Prototype : did this really need clarification?

Their rendition of the Flying Scotsman wasn't so hot either, fortunately Lee Marsh are due to import this model to the standard it rightly deserves in the near future. 

At least George Kohs was responsible for the vast increase in quality of imports to Britain by raising the bar and letting UK importers know the standard that could and should  be reached. 

Sadly the German brass market is stuck in reverse and engaged in a race to the bottom. 

as always jmho 

n.

Last edited by Limey
up148 posted:
Limey posted:
Hot Water posted:
George diSanti posted:

I guess the question that needs to be asked is: 

What other importer besides Kohs would you like to see produce the Class A in a timely manner?

George diSanti

Sunset/3rd Rail. Maybe they would even make models of the last versions of the Class A, with all roller bearing rods.

I wouldn't touch Sunset, although they have several supporters on this thread. I have seen their European 0 outline stuff in 'action', the SNCF 141r springs to mind. Id rather go without. 

Well, considering that was a 2005 import (13 years ago if what I learned on the internet is correct), a lot has changed with all importers and the level of improvement has been exponential. Several videos of this loco running on u-tube and it seems to be quite a runner.

I have no interest in one, but your sweeping statement about Sunset is a bit harsh in my book. They make quality locomotives and are always on the leading edge of technology. I own several and although not on the detail level of KOH's or KEY, they cost 1/3  the price or less.  For new locos, they are the best bang for your buck in the hobby.

 

BH

If i was going to buy a 141r it would be a second hand Fulgurex version  built by Kodama or a Lemaco / Lematec one, or if I had the soldering skill, which I sadly do not, a Semblat kit. 

Many years ago I owned a Sunset HO K4 , it was the worst locomotive I have ever owned.... bar non - period. It was total **** : Once bitten, twice shy, as we say here. 

So not a sweeping statement, more one born of a negative experience with a product. 

Simon Winter posted:
rdunniii posted:
up148 posted:

George,

FAM (Fine Art Models) produced 1/32 scale models, not 1/48.  It was run by Gary Kohs (George's brother) who passed away earlier this year.  Not sure of what will become of FAM, although I believe George Kohs as mentioned possibly producing some 1/32 and HO models in the future.

 

BH

FAM produced all the Lionel Smithsonian passenger cars in 1/48.

On that subject, I see some called/listed as FAM and some as Lionel Smithsonian. From what I read, FAM produced the Smithsonian stuff in both 2 and 3 rail, and then additional 2R cars were imported under FAM. Anyone care to expand on/correct this???

Thanks,

Simon

 

All Lionel Smithsonian passenger cars are 2-rail.  The Hudsons were done in both 2 and 3-rail (by FAM).  After FAM delivered the cars to Lionel they marketed additional cars under the FAM name.  Additionally, they took the 20th Century cars and repurposed them as Broadway limited cars.  Worked for the sleepers but not for the observation or the lounge cars.  A bit of a disaster ensued over those.  And the Broadway diner and RPO were never done in 1/48 (only 1/32) by FAM.

Last edited by rdunniii
Limey posted:
rheil posted:
Limey posted:

I wouldn't touch Sunset, although they have several supporters on this thread. I have seen their European 0 outline stuff in 'action', the SNCF 141r springs to mind. Id rather go without. 

What is outline stuff ?

Prototype : did these really need clarification?

Their rendition of the Flying Scotsman wasn't so hot either, fortunately Lee Marsh are due to import this model to the standard it rightly deserves in the near future. 

At least George Kohs was responsible for the vast increase in quality of imports to Britain by raising the bar and letting UK importers know the standard that could and should  be reached. 

Sadly the German brass market is stuck in reverse and engaged in a race to the bottom. 

as always jmho 

n.

Well, we're comparing apples with oranges. Lee Marsh puts out a KOH's/KEY quality model. Sunset/3rd Rail caters to a different market, at a different price point. 

But, the old Sunset HO models are definitely in a different class. Sunset back in the 70's, 80's and 90's offered much cheaper models to get into the market from what I remember. There were also some really bad builders back then. So all importers had good models and bad models.

I bought some OMI HO back in the 70's and they truly were junk. Screws stripped out, side rods came off, ran like crap, etc. But, this was the beginning of the transition of the hobby from Japanese builders to Korean builders and there was a huge learning curve. Same thing happened in the transition from Korean to Chinese builders. 

Sunset/3rd Rail is Scott Mann (Mort's Son) and his models are a good value for the $$$$ and anything but junkers or subpar.  I think 3rd Rail had a lot to do with the resurgence of O scale in the 21st century. 

 

BH

 

Last edited by up148
Brandy posted:

Who is doing the New Brass Models that Lionel is selling/sold....I haven't seen it in the flesh, but people that did/have, thought it better than 3rd Rail Models..?

They only wish!  Those Lionel "hybrid" steam models have only a brass boiler but a generic diecast frame & running gear. Plus, so far they have only done a Santa Fe 2-8-2, apparently because they already had/have the diecast running gear from their light 2-8-2 models, previously done.

Maybe Lionel would do it, as I liked their Legacy and TMCC Versions......!

 

Brandy posted:

Who is doing the New Brass Models that Lionel is selling/sold....I haven't seen it in the flesh, but people that did/have, thought it better than 3rd Rail Models..?

Maybe Lionel would do it, as I liked their Legacy and TMCC Versions......!

Not by a long shot. Sunset is a consistent and respected brass importer. Lionel is, well, none of those. 

The post is about bringing in a "HIGHEND" Norfolk and Western Class A brass model in a timely manner. Sunset and Lionel brass models do not fit this category. The only "HIGHEND" importers are Key Imports, Kohs, and now Mr Lee and MMW that come to my mind.   The problem with Key Imports is that he wants orders without revealing the price and his models are not delivered in a timely manner.  The problem with Kohs, such as with the Big Boy, is that 2 deposits have been collected ($4000) and it is now going on 5 years and, according to Matt, the model hasn't started production.   I believe I would take Matt's suggestion and ask MMW for the N&W steam locomotive with his drive

George diSanti

I’m going to sit down and tell my story on this and other forums about what happened with Kohs and my big boy reservation. I just need to sit down and do it. What is going on there is wrong and people need to be aware of it so they can make an informed decision as to whether they want to buy into one of his projects. He is planning on doing HO models so there’s a whole new set of victims he can prey on. People need to know.

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