Now the other version of PYDS. How many have it?

Be happy you're sitting at home and able to post this stuff.  You could be in a hospital bed somewhere.

A truly incredible post in my opinion.  There are people who have lost their lives; people who have lost their jobs and may very well be unable to pay their mortgages, property taxes and perhaps experience difficulty even putting food on their tables for family members.  Nevertheless, in the grand American tradition there are those who complain because they can't look at or buy trains.  Oh, how much pain can we Americans be expected to endure!!   

OKHIKER,

Please stop there.  Scott didn't mean anything by it at all.  We are all well aware of the crisis we're in and the toll it has taken.  This is a forum where we can go and escape and talk trains for a little while.  And it's ok to miss not being at a train show with some friends, and on this forum it's ok to express that.  That doesn't mean we all aren't truly thankful that we still have our health, jobs, etc. 

This forum is kind of an escape from the outside world and I don't think anyone posting on here is trying to equate the relatively minor inconveniences the current situation has dumped on the world of toy trains with the very real miseries that are out there. Ruing something you can't do is not minimizing what others are going through, doesn't diminish it, and in some ways being able to wistfully look at things we wish we could do is simply an escape from that reality. People went to the movies in the middle of the great depression and watched movies that were fantasies of a world that existed only for a tiny sliver of the population, the world of the Thin Man and 42nd Street had little to do with the real misery of that era, the audiences embracing those films didn't change the reality out there (lot of people couldn't even afford the cost of admission) . I can wistfully note that this craziness has given me the time to finally be able to build a layout that has been many years in the planning, but because of financial concerns and worries, not knowing if my job will last (so far, knock wood, it looks like it is safe for now) and real financial obligations, I can't in my heart lay that kind  of money out and feel like it is responsible..but I can note wryly that I must of crossed the wrong god back in Roman days.... When I am back to my long commute, rather  than working from home, the money may free up, but the time will disappear like a bottle of bourbon at a poker game

Rob N posted:

OKHIKER,

Please stop there.  Scott didn't mean anything by it at all.  We are all well aware of the crisis we're in and the toll it has taken.  This is a forum where we can go and escape and talk trains for a little while.  And it's ok to miss not being at a train show with some friends, and on this forum it's ok to express that.  That doesn't mean we all aren't truly thankful that we still have our health, jobs, etc. 

I concur with Rob.  NH Joe

Rob N posted:

OKHIKER,

Please stop there.  Scott didn't mean anything by it at all.  We are all well aware of the crisis we're in and the toll it has taken.  This is a forum where we can go and escape and talk trains for a little while.  And it's ok to miss not being at a train show with some friends, and on this forum it's ok to express that.  That doesn't mean we all aren't truly thankful that we still have our health, jobs, etc. 

Rob N,

          I really don't know what the original poster had in mind when he broached this topic and in the final analysis his motivation for posting it is not important to me.  What I do know is that when I know and see people suffering,and I mean suffering, because they have lost a loved one to this disease or others who are living paycheck to paycheck and are in fear of losing their homes because their jobs may not be there when this is all over I think that it is grossly inappropriate to voice feelings of depression because one can't attend a train show for God's sake.   Sure its all right to miss going to York but I don't think it is right to broadcast it.  There are thousands of members on this forum and I would think that there just might  be a  chance that some of them are in mourning or dire economic straights right now and they are the ones suffering from true depression.  How do you think these people feel when they read that an individual, any individual, is depressed because he or she can't attend a train show.  There is no comparison.  I think a little empathy might be in order here and if people can't recognize that then I pity them. 

Finally, I certainly recognize anyone's right to post their thoughts on this forum but I also have that right so please don't tell me to stop there.

OKHIKER,

I meant no disrespect to you and I apologize if I came on too strong.  I just wanted to stand up for Scott a little bit because I know he did not mean at all to come across as complaining about trains when a crisis is going on. 

I understand what you're saying.  Our neighbors, family, even probably some on this forum, are losing jobs, possibly homes, and most tragically, family and friends to this disease.  I've never seen the world like this, it's horrible. 

But knowing all this and crying for those who are hurting; this forum, even if only for a couple minutes, is a great place to go, talk about trains, and even state that we are a little sad about missing York this year.  It just seemed that you were suggesting that any mention of missing a show was very inappropriate and nonempathetic to those suffering.  This is a terrible, terrible time, no doubt, but are you suggesting we can't even say, on this York forum, that we are a little sad about missing the show and seeing friends?  I guess I just don't agree.  The virus has shut down a lot of things in our lives, including taking a lot of lives, but I don't think we need to become very tight-lipped and walk on eggshells in a forum where we can relax for a time. 

Again, no offense at all and I take my hat off to you for thinking of the suffering.  I very much send my thoughts and prayers to you if you have family and/or friends affected by this.

I am with OKHIKER,some individuals are very shortsighted depending on where they come from ie people in NY are having a difficult time just getting groceries not to mention the Small homes that they have to live and stay in at this time.If you are healthy consider yourself blessed.

Mikey

This was meant as a light hearted topic to distract us for the things going on. This was not meant to be serious or alarming to those who are struggling. Last year was a disastrous year for my family, and even last year I posted light topics as a distraction.  If I wanted to be totally serious I would be reading CNN every hour. Trains are an escape so is this forum. 

Scott Smith

I was looking at the OP a little differently.  While only 2 percent of people who express depression commit suicide, depression is still a real concern.  If Scott is really depressed about missing York and not seeing his friends, he may need to see professional help.  Depression is bad enough as it is, but add in being isolated just compounds the problem.  Maybe Scott's post was an initial cry for help?

Or not  Take care everyone and stay safe.

scott.smith posted:

This was meant as a light hearted topic to distract us for the things going on. This was not meant to be serious or alarming to those who are struggling. Last year was a disastrous year for my family, and even last year I posted light topics as a distraction.  If I wanted to be totally serious I would be reading CNN every hour. Trains are an escape so is this forum. 

Scott Smith

You would take CNN seriously?  Seriously?

Dennis Holler posted:

scott.smith posted:

This was meant as a light hearted topic to distract us for the things going on. This was not meant to be serious or alarming to those who are struggling. Last year was a disastrous year for my family, and even last year I posted light topics as a distraction.  If I wanted to be totally serious I would be reading CNN every hour. Trains are an escape so is this forum. 

Scott Smith

You would take CNN seriously?  Seriously?

 

I don’t watch CNN, but if I wanted to be seriously depressed that would be a great start.

Scott Smith

C’mon buddy, you’re being a little melodramatic here.  Must we be 100 % dour and empathetic 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Do you really think a guy like Scott, or any of the rest of us, who connect with people on a daily basis through their jobs or family obligations, has no recognition or sympathy for human suffering or tragedy? 

We live in a big world, but within our daily existence we inhabit all these little pockets of subcultures, with their own little realities.  Some of us follow pro or college sports.  Some attend car meets.  Some guys hunt.  Some playsports.  Some belong to clubs devoted to computers, or photography, raising show dogs, playing cards , whatever.  Some of us even play with trains.

It’s all relative.  Remember that.  It’s relative.  My DSC can’t find my engine ID number.  Big deal.  We know people are dying while we try to figure out how to get the signal to work.  Doesn’t make me a bad person that I complained on the Forum about it. That’s one of the saving graces about hobbies and interests and sub-cultures.  You can experience joy, anger, frustration…you can let off steam in healthy ways that don’t impact your everyday world and those around you.  IF you can maintain perspective. I think most of us can.

Sorry if this seems harsh.  But there’s no need to get into the “I care more than you” self-righteous sermons about how spoiled and privileged we are.  We all know this is bad.  We have TVs.  We have radios.  We can read the posts and stories online.  If I escape for 20 or 30 minutes from reality to laugh at Curb Your Enthusiasm it doesn’t mean I don’t care how many people in my state died today.  I don’t know about you but without the outlet of a favorite show, or a favorite CD to listen to, trains to play with….a place like the Forum to visit and read comments from others who share your love of trains….without all these distractions from the unrelenting bad news and tragedy I would go nuts.

You’re entitled to feel the way you do.  I just think your disapproval is misplaced.

GET A LIFE !!!!!

Ramblings......Nothing like the therapy my RR gives me in retreating from the harsh realities of disease, difficult finances and public forums.   There is always something constructive to do or even redo on the layout.  

What really concerns me is playing with my trains while needs go unmet in the dark realities of the suffering. 

I am reluctant to expose myself to the possibility of disease.    Seems like financial contributions to the younger and healthier volunteers is our generation's safest bet.    Keeps us from becoming a strain on the system.

Hobbies can be very healthy.   The social functions (York) of hobbyiests are a main stay for many.  For the present,  virtual forum gathering are our present outlet.

Wonder what would OGR forum look like on Zoom?  We would all need 82" flat screens!  Scott could be our moderator.

When there is peace and prosperity here in the states, somewhere in the world, is a serviceman who suffers long hours, lack of showers, poor diet and knowledge they have up to 12 months of this, and there are no outcries for them, and they DON'T want empathy, they chose to be there. There will ALWAYS be a portion of the world where there is a crisis. Health, Financial or Conflict.

This hobby is an outlet for anyone and everyone who likes to become part of the world they build with trains and layouts, and the friends they make.

This pandemic is serious, and many need to know they can be themselves, not think about the fact their job is on the line, their family is at risk and when the very members they interact with deride them for being open about their OWN thoughts, it is no longer a forum but a lash out.

If your in the hotspots, it sucks, but for the areas where the pandemic has only disrupted the economy, it is different, as is having a family member or friend affected by the virus. 

If you disagree, take the high road, ignore the post and go on with your life, lectures are the LAST thing we need on the forum. This is where we should be coming together and enjoying this hobby that has us all involved.

For those who has criticized Scott apparently does not know him. I have met Scott at quite a few of the dinners at York along with his special needs son. They are both wonderful guys who enjoy the time spent at the York show. I enjoy meeting people like Scott and his son. 

So he misses going to York, so what!!! Is it a concern of yours, I miss going to York this past week.

Some people need to MYOB. 

Dave

I understand the feelings about this mess, I live in the NYC region and I see the impact up close and personal, a friend from high school who became a doctor, a surgeon, was on the front lines from the start of this, volunteered at a NYC hospital, treated I don't know how many people, and now is gravely ill with this and may not make it, and while I am very fortunate to have a job that so far looks safe, where  I can work from home, I also know a lot of people I care about who have sick family members, lost jobs, you name it, I have a good friend who is at a long term care facility in the aftermath of a spinal tumor that left him unable to walk, and he is scared about being there. 

That said, toy trains is a hobby, that can be a very, very expensive one, in a world where there is always suffering, where there are people who are experiencing devastation, economic insecurity, you name it, you can always look around and think like when people are dying from storms, or famine, or war, how can we enjoy ourselves, it is something philosophers have been wrangling about for years. 

To put it in perspective, the 1930's were a hard time for a lot of Americans, as hard as we have seen up until this current horror story, many people were out of work or were underemployed, there were serious issues with malnutrition, homelessness, yet Lionel stayed in business by selling trains to those able to afford them, when they introduced the 700e in the late 30's the country was in yet another deep recession, it cost 75 bucks, which was a tremendous amount of money at the time (it would be roughly 3 weeks typical wages for people lucky enough to have a job), if people who had the means to buy those engines should instead of simply given that money to others in need, what would have happened to those working at Lionel? (and for the record, I am not saying all that matters is ourselves, simply saying that taking care of ourselves can also help take care of others, as always, it is a balance on helping others versus caring for ourselves). 

During WWII, a very dark time for the world, where at least 40 million people died, and people in the US had to make a lot of sacrifices, including the death of its citizens, mostly young men, I can tell you for a fact that during this scary and dark time, people complained about things like rationing, of having to wear shoes until they fell apart,blackout regulations, you name it, but much of it was done the way Scott 'complained' about York not happening,. the humor of the complaining during that period was well documented.  There is a difference between what Scott did and whining, humor, dark, sarcastic and otherwise, has always been part of hard times and that was the vein I think he was tapping. The humor during WWII about the sacrifices back home didn't trivialize at all the real darkness of the time, it simply was a way to get through a hard time and stay sane, people complained, told jokes with dark humor about what they faced, of having to deal with a day with only a single cup of coffee, ersatz butter, etc. 

Scott's comment was done wryly and more than a bit tongue in cheek, one of the big problems with the internet/social media is that sardonic and sarcastic humor can be hard to read, since much of that depends on body language and tone of voice. People do this all the time, when they binge watch a season of a show they love on Amazon or Netflix then complain it will be another year until they can watch it again, saying things like "how can I survive", or when football fans after February groan about the 6 months until training camp, how life  isn't worth living, few people are saying that seriously, if the regret is somewhat real. 

We are all part of this crazy time, but talking about trains, buying stuff for our trains, making  lighthearted comments about the 'misery' of things being cancelled, doesn't dismiss the very real concerns that are out there, thing about dark situations is we still need to get through each day ourselves, we still have lives of our own, it doesn't take away one bit from the very real issues others are facing, which this forum is part of in my case. 

Think it fair to say that Scott is just ruminating.....that kinda was me too for a short while last week. Yet our reality of social distancing will be a memory. Stay safe and frosty and chiilling out......

35 years ago I had been married 3 years, and just started a new job (at a hospital) with no health insurance eligibility for the first 6 months. One month into the job I had a heart attack (age 33). I couldn't afford to stay for treatment after the diagnosis in the ER, and had actually been told by my Department Head that I had better be in for my next shift. On the way home I passed and then went back to my local train store just to window shop. I needed that small bit of normalcy and stability to help me calm down so I could tell my wife what had happened. It helped.

Trains mean different things to all of us. York means different things to all of us.

A few weeks ago, I posted a topic wondering if there would still be Bandit meets, and a York friend gave me a little shake and pointed out that other things were going on, for which I thank him (Hi Dave).

Just sayin'.

So much for the theory that this could be a light hearted topic.....closed!