NYC Freight Schemes in the '50s...

By the 50’s, the NYC was not a healthy entity,….so it was pretty much run what you brung,…..the named varnish still carried on with 2 tone gray, with some black diesels showing up from time to time as motive power was ushered into service……as far as freight, what ever was available to do the deed,……from the mid 40’s ( 46-47…..ish) Pacemaker fast freight was two tone red & gray ( cars only )  ,….this obviously carried over well into the 50’s …….they really stopped giving a crap about paint by the mid to late 50’s ……painting trains, and keeping them glamorous looking was more for the hey-day of railroad traffic, late 20’s thru the early 40’s when luxurious travel was primarily by rail,….flashy, colorful trains caught the public’s eye, and in turn, they’d spend their money traveling on those sleek & shiny train sets,…

Pat

The paint schemes were the same except freight units were black with a light gray lightning stripe and passenger units were dark gray with a light gray lighting stripe.

The practice carried over to the simplified  "cigar band" scheme with freight units being black and passenger units dark gray, somewhere between 1957 and 1959.

I think NYC also painted three E8's in Jade Green with the cigar band.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty.

The reason I asked is because on the "s-scale.i.o" site (I'm sure you saw it), that catalog page with "my" Enhorning F unit had both styles ( freight and passenger) listed in the NYC scheme. I was wondering which one mine is... sounds like the passenger one...

Mark in Oregon

@harmonyards posted:

By the 50’s, the NYC was not a healthy entity,….so it was pretty much run what you brung,…..the named varnish still carried on with 2 tone gray, with some black diesels showing up from time to time as motive power was ushered into service……as far as freight, what ever was available to do the deed,……from the mid 40’s ( 46-47…..ish) Pacemaker fast freight was two tone red & gray ( cars only )  ,…

Pat

Does anyone know why red and gray were selected and why gray on the bottom?  John

@rattler21 posted:

Does anyone know why red and gray were selected and why gray on the bottom?  John

I'm thinking unlike other box cars, these cars were originally reserved for Pacemaker Service only. They were originally oxide red like other boxcars. They were then equipped for high speed travel and painted in the vermillion and gray paint scheme. Perhaps they wanted them to be immediately recognizable as not just a general service box car. They later became part of the general service pool when Flexi-Van Service started.

@NYC Fan posted:

I'm thinking unlike other box cars, these cars were equipped for high speed and originally reserved for Pacemaker Service only. Perhaps they wanted them to be immediately recognizable as not just a general service box car. They later became part of the general service pool when Flexi-Van Service started.

Yes, and to add, …Pacemaker wasn’t just a flashy paint scheme. It was the Central’s marketing slogan for attracting customers. Pacemaker was a “special” service…..think of it as USPS’s Priority Mail program today. When Pacemaker cars were moved within the system, they received a higher priority, naturally depending on the commodity being shipped by rail,….To answer John’s question, I’d have to go out on a limb, and say the red on top would be more catchy then if it was on the bottom……The idea being the cars were supposed to be easily recognizable when in a string of cars. There was a promotional film made of the new Pacemaker service, with a long string of new cars to promote the new service, before the cars were dispersed through out the system, and the entire country…..

Pat

I have always suspected that Jade Green is a late 50s, early 60s color....am I correct?  Was it an attempt to be "flashy" again?

Peter

Jade green or more correctly "century green" was adopted by the Central at the June 1959 shareholders meeting. Also, the top of the bay windows on cabooses would be painted white to designate pool service.  Doug

Just to add to what Pat mentioned.  The Pacemakers initially were "Hotshot Freight" Unit trains aimed at LCL that operated on a Timed Overnight Schedule.  Of course the PRR had the competing Merchandise Service that operated in the same fashion with specially equipped and painted boxcars.  They may be somewhat less know to modelers because there cars were not quite as "flashy".  The flash may have helped, as the NYC was more successful with this than the PRR (the NYC contiuned the service much longer).  Other railroads at that time had similar services ie. SP Overnight, B&O Time Saver, etc.

The original two-tone gray streamliner colors were introduced on the 1938 Twentieth Century. Those cars were medium gray with a dark gray band through the windows, the colors separated by blue (which a few years later changed to white) stripes. The famous "Dreyfuss" streamlined Hudsons were decorated to match this scheme, as were the first E-units.

In the late 1940s, the scheme was reversed - dark gray body, medium gray through the windows. Passenger diesels were painted (or repainted) to match. This would be the classic "lightning stripe" scheme. Although the diesel paint scheme was later simplified to the "cigar band" style the passenger cars remained in the second two-tone scheme until the end.

@rattler21 posted:

Does anyone know why red and gray were selected and why gray on the bottom?  John

It's interesting that you brought up this topic.  I have also found it interesting.

Has anyone else thought about a possible connection between the Ohio State football uniform colors and Pacemaker boxcars?  Due to its location, NYC surely employed quite a few Ohio State alumni in its management.  Other railroads -- Pere Marquette, Lehigh Valley and Monon to name some -- used college athletic colors on their equipment.

Probably the New York Central historical group has information in its archives, about the choice of colors at the beginning of Pacemaker freight service, and there may be members of that group on the Forum.

Anyone out there with actual knowledge of this care to share ?

I know the Monon selected its engine colors based on Colleges in areas it served, but I have never heard that about the NYC.

I am going to start this by saying I have NO actual Knowledge.  With that being said here is my theory on the color scheme chosen.

I don't think it is much of a stretch, to think that the gray came from the high speed strealiners of the NYC.  This was a Hotshot Freight Unit Train Operated on Timed Overnight schedule.  I agree with the comments above.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...yc-pacemaker-boxcars

The bright Red background NYC Oval had first appeared on the ESE Hudson.  As the NYC dieselized the Red background Oval was used on the front of those locomotives.  So Red represented speed on the NYC.  This is probably just coincidence, but the Original ESE and Pacemaker Freight Service were both NY City to Buffalo Trains.

Anyhow the latest color scheme often has to do with what is considered Envogue at a certain point in time.  At about the same time this was launched, the Golden State Streamliner (which was to be the Golden Rocket) launched with a very similar paint scheme.  Also at about the same time the Texas Special was launch with lots of Bright Red painted on to Stainless Streamline Cars.  So in 1947, this represented the latest Hi-Speed Train Service on rails.

That is my theory.  Can someone back this up, or shoot it down?

@NYC Fan posted:

I'm thinking unlike other box cars, these cars were originally reserved for Pacemaker Service only. They were originally oxide red like other boxcars. They were then equipped for high speed travel and painted in the vermillion and gray paint scheme. Perhaps they wanted them to be immediately recognizable as not just a general service box car. They later became part of the general service pool when Flexi-Van Service started.

Here are a couple of the variations including the oxide red.

@NYC Fan posted:

I'm thinking unlike other box cars, these cars were originally reserved for Pacemaker Service only. They were originally oxide red like other boxcars. They were then equipped for high speed travel and painted in the vermillion and gray paint scheme. Perhaps they wanted them to be immediately recognizable as not just a general service box car. They later became part of the general service pool when Flexi-Van Service started.

I have attached an article from the April 1947 issue of NYC's company newsletter, The Headlight, describing the new Pacemaker boxcars.

Hope this helps,

C.J.

That's a great article C.J. - certainly nails things down to April 47 for NYC box cars, upper half vermilion red, lower portion dark gray, white lettering with black roof.  I love NYC and generally have a mixed string of Red/Gray, some Tuscan and Jade Green.

Next question I would like to ask of the pro's is what era would the dark green paint scheme represent?  Here is a photo of a MTH coach, when did they start this scheme, and when did they go to cigar band paint?  Perhaps this never was....?

@GP40 posted:

I have attached an article from the April 1947 issue of NYC's company newsletter, The Headlight, describing the new Pacemaker boxcars.

Hope this helps,

C.J.

Great article. I have read that Pacemaker Freight Service actually began in 1936 but was discontinued during WWII.  It was resumed in 1946. Where these 425 cars and the subsequent 575 fall in this time line is unclear.  New cars ordered after the war were built with the high speed trucks and in the vermillion and white paint scheme.  Some say that 200 of the 160000 series cars were temporarily loaned to Pacemaker Service in the 1940's. They originally had no Pacemaker markings, which were added at the time of the loan and they were not renumbered. These were probably in addition to the 1000. I'm thinking these cars may have been used in the original prewar Pacemaker Service.

Our late friend Bob Thatcher of AM Hobbies did extensive research when he had Atlas O make 4 variations. Bob had the Oxide cars numbered in the 160000 which I would assume to have been before the 170000-179999 lot.

Why there are at least 4 variations of the paint scheme is also unclear. The Ed Nowak photos of the inauguration of Pacemaker Service in 1946 show the White Oval and White Lettering. Subsequently, cars have been photographed with the White Oval and Black Lettering and with a White Oval filled in with Black in the middle and Black Lettering. Then there is the Oxide Red paint scheme with White Lettering and Oval.

@GP40 posted:

I have attached an article from the April 1947 issue of NYC's company newsletter, The Headlight, describing the new Pacemaker boxcars.

Hope this helps,

C.J.

My error. This article is from April 1946, not 1947 as I mistakenly posted earlier. I attempt to ensure that when I do post information, it is accurate.  I need to have my glasses checked. Sheesh. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

C.J.

@Chuck242 posted:

That's a great article C.J. - certainly nails things down to April 47 for NYC box cars, upper half vermilion red, lower portion dark gray, white lettering with black roof.  I love NYC and generally have a mixed string of Red/Gray, some Tuscan and Jade Green.

Next question I would like to ask of the pro's is what era would the dark green paint scheme represent?  Here is a photo of a MTH coach, when did they start this scheme, and when did they go to cigar band paint?  Perhaps this never was....?

The question you asked is more aimed at the Pullman car co. history, more so than the Central proper. Although the Central maintained & painted the fleet of cars they owned out right, the cars were delivered painted by the various car makers,….

Pat

The variation in the color scheme of the Grey and Red is they started with the white lettering and oval.  Once they got dirty it was hard to read the white lettering so it was changed to black (approximately 2 years later) call it 1947 - 1951.  The oval with black background came last as it was changed mid 50's as the NYC changed the standard logo on all their freight equipment to this.

Sorry, typo should have been 1949-1951.  BTW all cars weren't ever removed from service and repainted at one time, changes were "phased-in".

Found this webpage, it illustrates what I commented on above.

https://www.pacific-western-ra...nts/view.php?ID=4652

@Chuck242 posted:

Next question I would like to ask of the pro's is what era would the dark green paint scheme represent?  Here is a photo of a MTH coach, when did they start this scheme, and when did they go to cigar band paint?  Perhaps this never was....?

It's not clear to me. Was this livery, style (heavyweight Madison) and dark green color common for NY Central passenger cars?

I hope the answer is yes, since I acquired 2 sets of them last year, and the predominant railroad on my layout is the NY Central.

I know this color was typical of Pullman passenger cars, and I believe they ran on the long runs of the NY Central, such as NY City to Chicago.

To me, this livery, style and color looks very realistic, especially if they are weathered a little, the same way that Tuscan red looks very realistic to me for Pennsy passenger and freight cars. Arnold

One thing I know about the dark green NY Central Heavyweight Madison cars, they ran in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s on the Putnam Division of the NY Central Railroad (The Put). I have seen pictures of them in books about The Put.

This is straying off topic, but want to clear this up since it was asked!

The majority of heavyweight passenger and head-end cars on the NYC were Pullman Green until the early 1950's.  There were some special schemes earlier, such as the Light Gray with Dark Gray window band used for a couple of years on the Pacemaker.  However the HEAVYWEIGHT Dark Gray with Light Grey window band was widely applied around 1953.

The Streamlined cars are a whole different matter.

There are previous discussions on this Forum about NYC Passenger car colors.

Yes, this is getting way off course for the thread topic ….which is FREIGHT …..but again, as I pointed out above, this is NOT a NYC practice, it was practice in maintenance of the cars, but the cars were delivered green mainly from the no.1 vendor of passenger cars, the Pullman car co. The Pullman car co. adopted their “signature color “ Pullman Green around the turn of the century.  The Central proper, a customer of Pullman Car Co. simply purchased cars already green from them…

Pat