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@0-Gauge CJ posted:

I have been thinking of doing something similar to what you are doing, geting a TMCC Mountain and re-detailing it as stand-in for a Norfolk & Western K2. The N&W used USRA Heavy Mountains for the K2 class, but I am not holding out hope that we will see Heavy Mountains in O scale, so the light Mountain would probably be the closest thing in O scale. Nice to see a similar, more-ambitious project getting done, gives me hope that I can get my humble idea done one day

I also love the creativity of using magnets for the streamlining, it's brilliant! Are you at all worried about a magnetic field impairing or damaging engine electronics?

Thank you! I've seen Lionel produce a heavy USRA 2-8-2, so maybe one day we will see a USRA 4-8-2, but a light mountain should be fine to use. The magnet idea I "borrowed" from Lionel, who used a similar method on two recent legacy sets (Valley Flyer & Asa Packer) as for the electronics I consulted a friend of mine who does electronic work and upgrades for trains, he said it shouldn't be a problem since the magnets are tiny.

The drive rods recieved some painting, the reliefs on the prototype were painted, this was easy to on the connecting rods, but the coupling rods were more tedious as they didn't have the relief, so they were masked and carefully painted, the result was pretty good, I have to do some cleanup. 20220922_09094720220922_09111820220922_141204

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@Blake posted:

Prime and lightly sand parts to be painted, mix the paint with laquer thinner , I usually do a 50/50 mix, or the thinner Scalecoat sells, and spray the parts you want to paint, and let dry. I use a siphon fed airbrush, so setup might differ slightly with a gravity fed airbrush. After everything is dried spray a clear coat to seal everything. If using decals, add decals first then clear coat.

That’s how it’s done, ….nice work!….soldier on,…😁

Pat

Been a while since I posted about this, after awaiting paint and having to find another brand, I started painting all the orange trim on the drive wheels! 405 left the shops in 1938 with all decked out wheels, orange pinstripes and all. This only lasted a year before the wheels were repainted, and the orange was never redone.  This was hand painted using Tru-color SP orange. 20221117_19115020221117_18144520221117_184254

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Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

Hi Blake, I've been following your work on the 405/Mountaineer locomotive. Although I'm not a modeler, I can admire  excellent work.

My question is, have you completed this project, and/or could we see the progress?

Although I live in western Pennsylvania, I was always interested in the O&W. Thanks for your efforts.

          Don Francis

Hi folks, it's been a while since I last posted here, anyway work on 405 was at a standstill for a while, as I worked on other projects, and the matching passenger consist for the locomotive (that is a seperate post). Currently I am awaiting for custom decals to be finished for the locomotive, I also did some work to the pilot, I removed the cast on pilot steps (405 didn't have this, they were on the sides of the pilot) and repainted the entire pilot. 20230404_09342720230404_14220820230405_092343

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7- I do agree with you.  I appreciate your knowledge and information about the O&W.  While maybe not 100% prototypical, they look great. In the 3 rail toy train hobby,  we often make compromises, enhancements, and approximations.   I bet he put a lot of effort into those gorgeous striped spokes.  John A

PS- you should consider writing for OGR or railroad books.

Thank you very much for the compliment John.  I am most flattered!

Unfortunately, the effect of pin-striped spokes do have a bit of a "Circus Wagon Look", and that was quite antithetical to the "Speedlined" (O. Kuhler's term) Flash Gordon affect of the late 1930's "Art-Deco"  approach he used.  This itself, was garish in a differing way from the aforementioned.  Large areas of solid color were used to de-emphasize the eye-slowing, (over the overly intricate, such as valve gear, boiler accessories, exhaust steam injectors, compressors etc.) and yes, even driving wheel spokes. Think "Scullin Disc" on a Dreyfus-N.Y.C. J3a and you'll see Kuhler's goal with only simple paint being available.

Here is a close-up of NYO&W No. 405 's drivers, taken when immediately moved from the "AV" paint shop in June 1938, it didn't even have a fire in it at this point in time.  A late friend of mine, then age 11 was in the cab that day and was disappointed when he pulled the whistle chord, and nothing happened as there wasn't any boiler pressure.

The image is a contact print and was shot by O&W Engineman DeForest Diver on large format orthographic B&W film. This film renders the grays differently from how we perceive them.  The deep and intense "Ontario  Maroon" actually appears darker than the adjacent black painted areas of the trailing and tender trucks as well as the air tank etc.  In this photo, it is very plain the tires had that one inch orange stripe around their perimeter as well as the small orange ring around each axle hub. But clearly, no spoke pinstripes.

The paint was there to give the illusion of a "solid disc".  Even the coaches and twin observation cars had a black panel painted through their horizontal window areas with three one inch orange stripes over the maroon sides below the window areas.

As for 3 rail, I am aware.  Just look at MTH's O&W "Mountaineer" cars as they do indeed match the above paint description reasonably well.  I only wished they'd done an adequate job on an engine, hence my contacting Weaver.  Decades ago, I personally handed Mike Wolf several sets of my own  "Mountaineer" decals, which MTH based their artwork upon for their cars.   And just as  with Otto Kuhler's work on the Southern's 1941 "Speedlined" Ps-4 for the "Tennessean," I too didn't get paid!  ---As for me writing books, well, there is that color one on the NYO&W.  Thanks again.

@John A posted:

Really enjoying this build. And, your painting is awesome! Re: wheels - if you think they look better with painted spokes, do that .  We don’t know everything about every engine.  It’s your model. JohnA

Thank you!! The painted spokes are nice (and honestly took a long time to paint by hand) but the goal was always to be as accurate as possible with this project, so I will remove the pinstripes on the spokes since the prototype doesn't have them.

@Super7 posted:

Thank you very much for the compliment John.  I am most flattered!

Unfortunately, the effect of pin-striped spokes do have a bit of a "Circus Wagon Look", and that was quite antithetical to the "Speedlined" (O. Kuhler's term) Flash Gordon affect of the late 1930's "Art-Deco"  approach he used.  This itself, was garish in a differing way from the aforementioned.  Large areas of solid color were used to de-emphasize the eye-slowing, (over the overly intricate, such as valve gear, boiler accessories, exhaust steam injectors, compressors etc.) and yes, even driving wheel spokes. Think "Scullin Disc" on a Dreyfus-N.Y.C. J3a and you'll see Kuhler's goal with only simple paint being available.

Here is a close-up of NYO&W No. 405 's drivers, taken when immediately moved from the "AV" paint shop in June 1938, it didn't even have a fire in it at this point in time.  A late friend of mine, then age 11 was in the cab that day and was disappointed when he pulled the whistle chord, and nothing happened as there wasn't any boiler pressure.

The image is a contact print and was shot by O&W Engineman DeForest Diver on large format orthographic B&W film. This film renders the grays differently from how we perceive them.  The deep and intense "Ontario  Maroon" actually appears darker than the adjacent black painted areas of the trailing and tender trucks as well as the air tank etc.  In this photo, it is very plain the tires had that one inch orange stripe around their perimeter as well as the small orange ring around each axle hub. But clearly, no spoke pinstripes.

The paint was there to give the illusion of a "solid disc".  Even the coaches and twin observation cars had a black panel painted through their horizontal window areas with three one inch orange stripes over the maroon sides below the window areas.

As for 3 rail, I am aware.  Just look at MTH's O&W "Mountaineer" cars as they do indeed match the above paint description reasonably well.  I only wished they'd done an adequate job on an engine, hence my contacting Weaver.  Decades ago, I personally handed Mike Wolf several sets of my own  "Mountaineer" decals, which MTH based their artwork upon for their cars.   And just as  with Otto Kuhler's work on the Southern's 1941 "Speedlined" Ps-4 for the "Tennessean," I too didn't get paid!  ---As for me writing books, well, there is that color one on the NYO&W.  Thanks again.

You have a very good point regaurding kuhler's use of paint, this makes sense. The goal was to make this train as accurate as possible using existing 3 rail equipment.  I wish I could remember where I read it had painted spokes, but that's what I went with , I definitely agree the painted spokes give that look to them. I remember seeing the MTH Railking set years ago and passing on it, as I wasn't a fan of the locomotive nor the cars, as the middle sections of the cars were painted a dark green instead of black. I'm glad to see that black and white photo, somtime during the week I will update with repainted spokes.

Last edited by Blake

I do understand your passing up on the MTH "Mountaineer" cars and (sorta) locomotive.  I did too as I thought the paint in the window area was grey instead of the correct black (I've only seen online images of them, never seen them in person.)

Since you are making such an outstanding effort on your 405, would you accept as a gift from me a made to scale (1:48) 22-1/2" diameter (.469" o.d.) Mountaineer style, O&W herald engraved into .010" thick sheet nickel silver, for mounting on the front "bib" between the orange wings?

@Super7 posted:

I do understand your passing up on the MTH "Mountaineer" cars and (sorta) locomotive.  I did too as I thought the paint in the window area was grey instead of the correct black (I've only seen online images of them, never seen them in person.)

Since you are making such an outstanding effort on your 405, would you accept as a gift from me a made to scale (1:48) 22-1/2" diameter (.469" o.d.) Mountaineer style, O&W herald engraved into .010" thick sheet nickel silver, for mounting on the front "bib" between the orange wings?

I'd glady accept that! That's very kind of you, that would be fantastic for my model!

Last edited by Blake

Lots of copyright infringement going on in this thread and so those pictures were deleted and accounts disabled.  Our copyright policy is stated clearly in the TOS.  Don't post pictures that are not yours...period UNLESS you have permission by the owner to do so!  The next poster in this thread that posts a copyrighted image and/or does not follow our copyright guidelines will be banned from this forum.  AND...don't change an edit that a moderator has done to your post otherwise we will delete the post completely.  Finally, don't complain about our policy...contact us if you have a comment but be prepared to deal with an appropriate response based on your inquiry.

On Friday the decals from Ricky Rupp arrived for 405! Saturday I spent the morning putting all the decals on the locomotive shell and tender shell! Now my lighting makes it more yellow then orange, so do not worry. I helped Ricky make these decals over the course of a few months, and soon they will be publicly available. To keep the look consistent, I will also do the drive wheels and pilot wheels.  20230527_19512820230527_19513120230527_19520920230527_19514820230526_154438

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Last edited by Blake

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