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Scott-

 

There are quite a few articles out there on taking O gauge outdoors. As I recall, they did experiment with the different brands, and Atlas nickel-silver with UV is the only one that has held up. They used hdpe to build a 'ladder' type assembly to provide an elevated roadbed. That said, the biggest culprit seems to be the thermal expansion and contraction of the track when mounted to the hdpe.

 

Bottom line - its doable!  Here's a link with lots of info.

 

http://www.btcomm.com/trains/p.../o_gauge_outside.htm

 

Atlas on this outdoor layout going strong for 10 years. Redwood base with no roadbed. The Atlas switches are doing well too. Stills from our 1 mile long run last Sunday with 66 Lionel double stacks. Obviously no harsh East Coast blizzard winters here but temps in this area range from upper 90's in summer to well below freezing in winter.

 

 

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Bob Canfield came to our Open House last fall and we talked at length about his outdoor layout. The thermal expansion differences between HDPE and the Atlas rails is a big issue. Las Vegas has more extreme weather in terms of highs vs. lows than most parts of the country, so that may be a contributing factor. One thought that came to mind was to zip-tie the track as opposed to screwing it to the HDPE. This will allow the track to float on the roadbed during expansion/contraction. Having the track elevated allows air to circulated around it which is probably better than having it on the ground for thermal issues, plus you're less likely to get ground debris into your equipment.

 

According to John Blessing (Anoriza) having a lot of curves allows the layout to expand and contract more comfortably.

 

I go back and forth on whether to go with an indoor layout or build outdoors but it seems more and more practical to just build outdoors if there's no basement available.

 

Although I have never tried O gauge outdoors, and would not do so even if I had the space, I do have considerable experience with Large Scale garden railroads.  Of all the O gauge track systems I have used, I would only consider Atlas if I was serious about going with something permanent or semi-permanent outdoors.

 

Wood ties would definitely be ruled out, as would hollow rails.  That pretty much eliminates FasTrack, RealTrax, and GarGraves with wood ties, as well as tubular O.  You would want solid rails, preferably stainless steel, nickel silver, or brass--the same materials commonly used for Large Scale outdoors (aluminum is also used, but mostly by the folks running live steam or using battery power).  You also want/need UV-resistant ties.

 

Remember, too, that O gauge equipment is not designed for all-weather use.  Only Large Scale is purposely designed for running in all weather conditions.  You'll need to take everything back inside once you complete your operating session, and that can be a big pain in the butt.  Even Large Scale operators generally make some accommodations to protect their trains from the elements when they aren't being run, although in many cases they construct special sheds or entries into the house to move the equipment to a better environment.

 

An outdoor layout is definitely labor intensive in any scale, but it sure is a whole lot easier if your start out with equipment that has been intentionally designed for outdoor running.

 

Scott,

 

I had a MTH RealTrax oval running parallel inside an Aristo-Craft G-Gauge oval for over 5 years on an outside exposed patio enduring cold and snowy winters and hot blistering summers in direct sunlight in southern Indiana.  The color from the RealTrax road bed faded a bit and it worked as well in year 5 as it did when I first put it down.  My wife wanted to do re-work the area so I eventually took up the entire track.

 

 

 

My trains were outside only running them in dry weather.  Otherwise they were kept inside the house.  I wouldn't have left my G-Gauge engines outside regardless of the notion that they are built to take it.  I have a pair Aristo-Craft CSX Dash9s converted to MTH DCS by Raymond Manley ... really cool with enhanced speakers.

 

 

 

I would like to put a more elaborate G and O gauge layouts back in the garden area and this time I will probably follow the advice as above, i.e. non uv plastic ties with stainless steel or nickel silver rail.  The question I am struggling with is to build it at ground level or elevated.  I really Like Roman's elevated layout.  A fellow from AZ had a website of his Anozira RR which was an interesting layout too using a ladder construction technique for the roadbed but my link no longer works.  Good luck.

 

 

 

The following pictures were taken before adding the G-Gauge oval.

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I would think the issue of the equipment other than the track and switches in the weather could be solved by having a location where you could drive the trains inside a shed or other structure when they're not in use.  Instead of a doggie door, you'd have a train door.   For most, I'm sure an outside layout would be a fair weather activity anyway, right? 

 

Any scenery for the outside section could be build with weather in mind.

Good thread I am been teetering on the doing a large scale G outdoor railroad there is a club up way way in southern NH, Nickel silver track seem to be fine.  G scale is built for this stuff, that said I do not know of many that the leave their engines outside. O 3 rail--imagine the huge curves. Romans layout is very cool. Again I have been watching the 2 rail guy from England who is installing concrete under is timber road bed very interesting stuff.

Originally Posted by mikek:

 


 

 

 

I would like to put a more elaborate G and O gauge layouts back in the garden area and this time I will probably follow the advice as above, i.e. non uv plastic ties with stainless steel or nickel silver rail.  The question I am struggling with is to build it at ground level or elevated.  I really Like Roman's elevated layout.  

 

For me, the deciding factor of ground level or elevated was a couple 4-legged friends of mine. Yes, I measured the tallest dog's "aim" and continued designing from there. They can water the posts all they want - but stay off my track!

Originally Posted by Seacoast:

...I do not know of many that the leave their engines outside. 

No, the Large Scale/garden railroad crowd almost always keeps the motive power and rolling stock sheltered in some way when not actually in use.  Security is one reason in many cases, but there's also no reason to expose costly trains to the elements 24/7.

 

However, many Large Scale garden railroaders do routinely operate in the rain and snow.  That's part of the fun--actually plowing snow with your train.

I had to chuckle at Mark440 comment equating the height of the track to the elevation range of his dogs' aim.  Fortunately for me, both of my labs are female so I won't have to elevate the track ... much!  

 

I thought about plowing snow one winter, as Allan commented, but I chickened out not knowing if I would short out the engine since I was running power to the rails and DCS.  Although that would be really cool ...

 

Otherwise, here is the link to Raymond Manley's website on Garden Railroading.  http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/   Lots of pictures and videos.  He did two Aristocraft MTH DCS conversions for me and upgraded the sound package.  When I would run both engines and blow the horns, the neighbors would come out to see what was going on.

 

His train shed is actually through a "doggie door" to a basement room.  Cool setup.

Scott Smith,

I just came across your post about installing an O outdoors.  You wrote that almost 2 years ago.  I wrote an update of sorts on O outdoors a couple of weeks ago on this forum.  Check that out.

 

If you have the funds to do so . . . G outdoors is the best way to go because G is designed and built for outdoor use.  O is not.  However G is larger so needs more space for minimum curves.  That is the only constraint that G has along with price.  G track is expensive.

 

O outdoors is inviting WHEN one already has an investment in O, but O outdoors is a fair weather enjoyment only.  Different climate zones across the US pose different challenges to O outdoors operations, design, and construction.  Anozira RR is in Tucson.  One major problem with Tucson's full sun exposure to track is HEAT and UV.  In the temperate climate areas one has frost and the associated heaving that accompanies the ground freezing.  The really weak link in the layout is the track.  And in Tucson-like summer temps. the weak link is the track ties.  Ties are hit hard by UV which makes the plastic brittle.  Heat deforms the plastic ties.  There are ways to defeat these two problems;

-- paint the ties to stop the UV and reflective paint keeps the ties cooler,

-- use UV resistant plastic ties,

-- elevate the track to keep it cool,

-- cover the track with an insulating cover during nonuse (We use wood boards),

-- and do not use track having WOOD ties.  The wood used by track manufacturers is cheap, really soft wood.  It simply comes apart, fiber by fiber regardless of what preservative one uses.  Wood ties are a disaster.

 

The track rails MUST be corrosion free and immune from corrosion such as stainless steel and nickel silver.  Any other (excluding aluminum rails) will rust and otherwise drive you nuts with maintenance concerns.  To my knowledge, no O gauge is made of aluminum.  Between track section to track section connections is subject to power reducing (resistance) corrosion due to the material from which the track connectors are made.  We bath the track pins or blades (Gargraves item) in conductive, electrical corrosion protecting grease.  Even then time and the elements take their toll and inevitably, all those connections will have to be serviced and renewed.

 

Anozira RR is totally Gargraves, all three rails, stainless steel.  That track is as bright and clean as the day it was installed 7 years ago.  It only gets a cleaning car run every other running session.  (The air we city folks breath is loaded with stuff that falls and covers the rails.  If not brushed off very often that gunk becomes a problem.)

 

The reference given above

http://www.btcomm.com/trains/p.../o_gauge_outside.htm

is full of really essential advice to going O outdoors.

 

I read above the advice to go with Atlas track.  Atlas track has its problems.  We stay away from it.  Paul Race, of the publication given above, has done study on Atlas track for outdoor O.  Read it and come to your own conclusions.

 

Cheers

Last edited by Anozira RR
Originally Posted by Roman:

Atlas on this outdoor layout going strong for 10 years. Redwood base with no roadbed. The Atlas switches are doing well too. Stills from our 1 mile long run last Sunday with 66 Lionel double stacks. Obviously no harsh East Coast blizzard winters here but temps in this area range from upper 90's in summer to well below freezing in winter.

 

 

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Roman, it never rains in Southern California!!

Originally Posted by Gilly@N&W:

Two choices immediately come to mind. Atlas (Nickel) and Gargraves w/ Stainless steel rails.

Another vote for GarGraves stainless steel.......Really the only O scale track made for outdoors. I bought a case back when I lived in Charlotte....but between cold and high winds in WV....changed plans.

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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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