O Gauge versus S Gauge

Tip of iceberg:

S - 2 rail (looks better than 3RO); 2 rail - can be a bit harder to wire in certain situations. Less stuff available (not always bad...). 

3RO - easy to deal with, LOTS available (not always good...), most but not all tight-curve-tolerant equipment is compressed/down-sized from true 1:48 (some looks fine; some does not). When it comes to steam locos, there are indeed full-scale 1:48 3RO models available that will work and look pretty good on small curves: 0-6-0, 0-8-0, 4-4-0, 4-4-2 - but if you want 2-8-2's etc, not so much.

"If I were starting today", as we say, and had real space constraints plus could live with the much smaller selection of equipment (it's not hopeless, just much less) I'd go with S. But, I have very specific steam loco "needs" that S generally does not satisfy. Otherwise, I like S a lot.

Having been in O Scale and HO scale, O scale demands more then a 50 x 18 foot area for a decent layout.  O scale especially steam requires a minimum of 42 inch and in most cases 54 or wider.

HO is great for getting a lot of stuff in a small area, but it is more difficult to work on as the eyes fade.

S is a compromise between the two scale, you get more trains in less space, but as noted above, not as much selection in engines.  You can do scale S steam on 27 inch (they measure in radius, not diameter). I do believe S is the GOLDILOCKS scale.

Nearly everything in S Scale is scale proportioned. Save for a couple Gilbert Cheapies. And American Models actually has a good selection with most things in stock.

Francine posted:

Having been in O Scale and HO scale, O scale demands more then a 50 x 18 foot area for a decent layout.  O scale especially steam requires a minimum of 42 inch and in most cases 54 or wider.

HO is great for getting a lot of stuff in a small area, but it is more difficult to work on as the eyes fade.

S is a compromise between the two scale, you get more trains in less space, but as noted above, not as much selection in engines.  You can do scale S steam on 27 inch (they measure in radius, not diameter). I do believe S is the GOLDILOCKS scale.

"O scale demands more then a 50 x 18 foot area for a decent layout."

I guess that depends on one's definition of a "decent layout".

"O scale especially steam requires a minimum of 42 inch and in most cases 54 or wider."

Another great misconception.  Again this depends on what size steam you would like to operate.  Cab Forwards or Moguls.  It also depends on the manufacturer of the locomotive.  Steam locomotives without a one piece side rod, like most Lionel or MTH products, tend to handle smaller radius curves better.

Opinion (based on background, training (!), and experience)

YMMV.

Leaving brass importers out of the picture, there is only one dedicated 100% S scale manufacturer: American Models.  AM offers dependable, solid performing, conventional AC or DC locomotives and rolling stock with either American Flyer/Hirail compatible or scale wheels and couplers.

Lionel has been offering a rather eclectic selection of S in their American Flyer line and MTH has very, very slowly been releasing the former S Helper service line.  (We've been waiting 3+ years for the return of the F3's.)  Both companies offer their proprietary electronics with DCC compatibility.

All three of the above companies offer track, with a varying selection available at present.

Most other manufacturers are what used to be called "cottage industries" of dedicated S folks putting out various products.

However, availability of S is the issue.  Very few dealers carry S.  The internet and S events (Spring S Spree, Fall S Fest, NASG conventions) is where most S can be purchased.

Being in S can be very challenging, but also very rewarding.  Some resources are the S Scale Resource magazine and the National Association of S Gaugers.

Rusty

I put a bunch of $$ in to post war S scale and found it very frustrating trying to get the stuff reliable. Finally traded it all for more O gauge. I think 50x18 ft for a decent layout is a gross exaggeration. If I wanted a  tighter radius, more in less space I would go with On3.

In another life I would have opted for S. It's a bit like On30-sized equipment running on standard gauge track

Why not go with both? S scale (3/16" to the foot) on O gauge track? And O-27 to boot so you can get into smaller spaces! That was prewar American Flyer O gauge and just about anything Marx made for "scale." Some postwar Lionel was 3/16" scale too.

Here's some Marx 3/16" scale tin trains...

More than likely, I'll be stuck to 036 track. I run mostly B-B diesels and Lionel's USRA 0-8-0 (all scale). (I have a Heavy Mikado that will negotiate the curves, but for the most part it is relegated to a straight siding.)

All my freight that sees 036 curves are PS-2 two bay covered hoppers (a boxcar sits at the end of a spur).

The most disturbing appearances on the curves: any C-C diesel that I have tried, long freight cars and any passenger cars, the relationship of a steam loco's cab to the tender.

It's all about compromise. All my equipment is scale. All my locos are Legacy. No, it doesn't look like an actual railroad; not even close. But it's sort of like black and white TV. After about 10 minutes I no longer notice.

It depends on your desires. If you are interested in really modelling some real railroad, or running (as opposed to merely having) models of particular real trains, then you are probably going to be frustrated with curves of that size in 'O', unless what you are modelling is something with sharp curves and small motive power.

Possibly, you could design a layout where you can't see any of the curves, since many mid-sized scale engines designed for the 3-rail market will navigate o-36 or o-42, but look terrible doing it. But if you can hide the curves, who will ever know how bad they look?

But if you want models of larger prototypes and you are sensitive to how they look on your curves, then you might consider 'S' instead. And if you want to model a really large swath of railroad, you might go even smaller.

On the other hand, if you are not in love with accuracy, per se, but rather with the light and color and sound and action of miniature trains, then you will be well served in O, because there is so much more product. You will tend to forgive the fact that much of it is not scale, because it lights up, moves, whistles, dings, honks, smokes, talks, and just plain looks cool. If it is scale-sized and accurate, that's just a bonus.

So ask yourself, why do you like miniature trains? Figure out the answer, and your decision about scale will be easy to make.

I just gotta say, if O-gauge is too big, I wouldn't give S-gauge a second thought. I would look at HO, where the choices are nearly unlimited.

I have been in all the scales at one time or another.  Currently in O and G scales but have been involved in S scale also.  I had track from American Models and I thought it looked the best of all the scales.  I ran American Models and S Helper Service engines and cars.  S Helper Service can still be had on eBay as can American Models, American flyer, and MTH.  HO has the most available equipment than all other scales but is too small for me as may be with you.  The older I get the smaller HO becomes.  Now that MTH is making S scale, more stuff may be coming available.

If I were you, I would attend some train shows and check out a modular layout if possible.  In my region, the Greenberg train show has a modular S scale layout which could give you some idea of what it would look like.  You can combine the new MTH with the other S manufacturers with barely any difference in appearance.

Rick

Francine posted:

Having been in O Scale and HO scale, O scale demands more then a 50 x 18 foot area for a decent layout.  O scale especially steam requires a minimum of 42 inch and in most cases 54 or wider.

HO is great for getting a lot of stuff in a small area, but it is more difficult to work on as the eyes fade.

S is a compromise between the two scale, you get more trains in less space, but as noted above, not as much selection in engines.  You can do scale S steam on 27 inch (they measure in radius, not diameter). I do believe S is the GOLDILOCKS scale.

50 X 18 sounds like a professional set up.  Or you own a large estate.  I only have the front room to work in. 

Rusty Traque posted:

Leaving brass importers out of the picture, there is only one dedicated 100% S scale manufacturer: American Models.  AM offers dependable, solid performing, conventional AC or DC locomotives and rolling stock with either American Flyer/Hirail compatible or scale wheels and couplers.

Lionel has been offering a rather eclectic selection of S in their American Flyer line and MTH has very, very slowly been releasing the former S Helper service line.  (We've been waiting 3+ years for the return of the F3's.)  Both companies offer their proprietary electronics with DCC compatibility.

All three of the above companies offer track, with a varying selection available at present.

Most other manufacturers are what used to be called "cottage industries" of dedicated S folks putting out various products.

However, availability of S is the issue.  Very few dealers carry S.  The internet and S events (Spring S Spree, Fall S Fest, NASG conventions) is where most S can be purchased.

Being in S can be very challenging, but also very rewarding.  Some resources are the S Scale Resource magazine and the National Association of S Gaugers.

Rusty

Thanks.

handyandy posted:

Why not go with both? S scale (3/16" to the foot) on O gauge track? And O-27 to boot so you can get into smaller spaces! That was prewar American Flyer O gauge and just about anything Marx made for "scale." Some postwar Lionel was 3/16" scale too.

Here's some Marx 3/16" scale tin trains...

I might like to know how to do this.

TM Terry posted:

More than likely, I'll be stuck to 036 track. I run mostly B-B diesels and Lionel's USRA 0-8-0 (all scale). (I have a Heavy Mikado that will negotiate the curves, but for the most part it is relegated to a straight siding.)

All my freight that sees 036 curves are PS-2 two bay covered hoppers (a boxcar sits at the end of a spur).

The most disturbing appearances on the curves: any C-C diesel that I have tried, long freight cars and any passenger cars, the relationship of a steam loco's cab to the tender.

It's all about compromise. All my equipment is scale. All my locos are Legacy. No, it doesn't look like an actual railroad; not even close. But it's sort of like black and white TV. After about 10 minutes I no longer notice.

I'm really interested, I think at this point, in passenger trains of the pre-war, war time and post-war periods.  Love the GG-1 and Santa Fe Super Chief which I rode once or twice.   

TM Terry posted:

I just gotta say, if O-gauge is too big, I wouldn't give S-gauge a second thought. I would look at HO, where the choices are nearly unlimited.

I hear ya.

nickaix posted:

It depends on your desires. If you are interested in really modelling some real railroad, or running (as opposed to merely having) models of particular real trains, then you are probably going to be frustrated with curves of that size in 'O', unless what you are modelling is something with sharp curves and small motive power.

Possibly, you could design a layout where you can't see any of the curves, since many mid-sized scale engines designed for the 3-rail market will navigate o-36 or o-42, but look terrible doing it. But if you can hide the curves, who will ever know how bad they look?

But if you want models of larger prototypes and you are sensitive to how they look on your curves, then you might consider 'S' instead. And if you want to model a really large swath of railroad, you might go even smaller.

On the other hand, if you are not in love with accuracy, per se, but rather with the light and color and sound and action of miniature trains, then you will be well served in O, because there is so much more product. You will tend to forgive the fact that much of it is not scale, because it lights up, moves, whistles, dings, honks, smokes, talks, and just plain looks cool. If it is scale-sized and accurate, that's just a bonus.

So ask yourself, why do you like miniature trains? Figure out the answer, and your decision about scale will be easy to make.

My goal is to try to set something nice up at Christmas every year.  I don't have time and space for a full-up operation.

RICKC posted:

I have been in all the scales at one time or another.  Currently in O and G scales but have been involved in S scale also.  I had track from American Models and I thought it looked the best of all the scales.  I ran American Models and S Helper Service engines and cars.  S Helper Service can still be had on eBay as can American Models, American flyer, and MTH.  HO has the most available equipment than all other scales but is too small for me as may be with you.  The older I get the smaller HO becomes.  Now that MTH is making S scale, more stuff may be coming available.

If I were you, I would attend some train shows and check out a modular layout if possible.  In my region, the Greenberg train show has a modular S scale layout which could give you some idea of what it would look like.  You can combine the new MTH with the other S manufacturers with barely any difference in appearance.

Rick

Right.  I am thinking modular as this will be an annual thing to set up.  If I can keep it somewhat compact I will.