O Scale Cincinnati Union Terminal

Great idea!   Looking forward to seeing your project developing!   

That will be a great looking passenger station. I have been to the real deal many times, have taken the Amtrak Cardinal to Wash DC.

Carl,

I think this is a great idea and it looks very well executed.

One thing - maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me - but the arc of the center section seems to be a little more shallow than the real thing?  The real one seems more pronounced - similar width at the base but stands taller, making for a taller more regal looking appearance. Is it just my eyes?  

Also, I am actually planning out a new layout and the focal point on one side will be the train terminal. I'm a life long comic book guy and was thinking about making my own train terminal be the Justic League's Hall of Justice, which of course, is based on this exact train terminal.  Until now, I was thinking about making it out of foam board. But I'm thinking I need to PM you, as your version is amazing and state of the art!  

Peter

Unbelievable!

So if my calculations are correct your current rendition would be between Z and N scale??  It looks fabulous.  I spent most of my youth in Cincinnati, but traveled through much of my working years handling Amtrak as a customer.  So - I have seen many of the grand old stations in the NE Corridor (Lorton VA- Boston), as well as in Chicago, and St. Louis.  I have always thought the Cincinnati was among the greatest, dare say even the greatest stations still in existence. 

Kudos to the city of Cincinnati for NOT tearing down this great old station as part of the (IMO misguided) 1960's - 70's "urban renewal" projects!!

PJB posted:

Carl,

One thing - maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me - but the arc of the center section seems to be a little more shallow than the real thing?  The real one seems more pronounced - similar width at the base but stands taller, making for a taller more regal looking appearance. Is it just my eyes?  

 

I believe the way the photo was taken of the real station along with the foreground landscape could give the illusion that the station is even taller proportionally. If you added a fountain and scenery that would give a more exact look vs the real deal. Also the addition of the clock would also make the station seem more pronounced.

On the model of the Grand Central Terminal sold by Lionel, many people added a base to the station giving the illusion of more height and adding to the impressiveness of the station. In my opinion this would really add impressiveness to the station as well.

Fantastic job on the station!

Peter,

I agree that in the picture the arches seem taller.  I measured pictures and architectural drawing and the arches are all circles centered at the top of the entry overhang.  The total width might be off some and I will recheck because of the perspective of the camera and its lens.  The architectural drawing were a little harder to measure the width.  I did shorten the hemisphere on the back of CUT to fit in the depth available.   Thanks for you comments.  Carl

I remember seeing a model of this years ago at Davis Hobby in Milford, Ohio. I really wanted to buy it. I would still love to have model even though I haven't a clue where I would put it.
Scott Smith

That's some impressive 3d modeling. To-scale O scale structures can be massive, but the thought of seeing some actually built is a bit exciting. A couple I can think of are the San Bernardino Depot (model would be 11 feet long, about 2 feet deep and about 18 inches tall; the UP Santa Ana River Viaduct would be almost 20 feet long, about 8 inches deep and about 20 inches tall. Gotta love monolithic structures if you have the space.

Great project! If you get on a roll with station models, here are some ideas to keep you going:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ure-and-models-ideas

Here is a discussion on the forum about CUT.  NH Joe

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...39#38737273817738239

That is a great idea! I’m sure you would find several buyers on here if you have success upsizing to scale dimensions. 

I am in the process of scaling up the CUT model to 75% of O Scale. The design needs to be broken into segments that are small enough to fit in the 3D printer.  The 75% model still requires printing about 50 segments that each require 12-14 hours to print.  Part of the back dome is shown in one picture below and the segment with the clock is shown with the small model. For the model I will use the bottom entry will be O Scale in height but the dome will be 75% of O Scale.

Outstanding!!!

OUTSTANDING! Cant wait to see this station finished. I always loved seeing the station while I was going to the Reds game at Riverfront when I was a kid. That was probably 50 years ago.

Fantastic!  Keep us posted on the progress!

looks nice but not being savvy to 3-d printers and creating items how exactly does  the printer do this?

Great modeling.  I did my residency in Cincinnati, and would drive by it all the time.  It was so beautiful that I always had to do a head check to take it in.

Looking forward to seeing your finished model.

Alan 

SO let me get this straight....your WIFE bought you a 3-d Printer?

Is she for sale?

She sounds like a keeper but I thought I'd ask.......

Don Merz

Don Merz 070317 posted:

SO let me get this straight....your WIFE bought you a 3-d Printer?

Is she for sale?

She sounds like a keeper but I thought I'd ask.......

Don Merz

 

Maybe you could print her for the other guys.

Alan

Scratch built of wood, illustration board and hand painted in the 1940's by one of the greatest modelers of our time Mr Frank C Ellison. Its true O scale.

WHOA!! That is going to be huge. Keep the updates coming! 

ajzend posted:

Don Merz 070317 posted:

SO let me get this straight....your WIFE bought you a 3-d Printer?

Is she for sale?

She sounds like a keeper but I thought I'd ask.......

Don Merz

 

Maybe you could print her for the other guys.

Alan

My wife also let me build what she calls "The Train Mansion" in our backyard.

2 floors 30'x40'.  Great Grandkids too.

Wow, very nice.

These are pictures of the test Cincinnati Union Terminal I built.  It is 75% of O gauge.  It still is 4 ft wide and 2 ft high.  The first picture has a scale F3 and you can see the original model I made.  For the final version I will make the ridges slightly smaller, make the lower entrance O scale height with O scale doors.  I also need to do a better job on the reliefs.

Wow', that is a lot of plastic printing'.. Outstanding work'.. VERY impressive.  The CUT must be a beautiful structure to see in person'..

I like that train museum and pool too'...

Carl, this is incredible!  Even the thoughtful changes you plan to make in terms of O scale ground level so that O scale little people, cars, etc. can be used for all the elements on this part of your layout to blend realistically. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product - good luck. 

Peter  

Outstanding !!!  So... after picking up a B&O 49'er from MTH and pairing it with some streamlined pass cars, got me thinking about getting / doing the terminal when I came across this thread.  Our family had visited the natural history museum back in the early 2000's, never realizing the building was a famous train terminal till afterwards.  Anyways, looking at the 2 wonderful models you sir have created, it seems to me that there would be more interest in a major manufacturer creating a "classic train terminal line". Has anyone fostered a concept to Walters etc. about such a topic?  Looking forward to someday being able to find one for my layout. 

Your versions are outstanding, keep up the good work !!

Another thought, would it be possible to do a 2 or 3 inch deep facade of the station?  I saw this recently at the Monroeville show. Someone had 1 inch blocks of wood cut and painted to buildings, barns etc. I really should have picked a couple up, now thinking about it, as I could have put them beyond the tracks, up against the wall. This could spark more interest and give some immediate options for the project. Food for thought....

I had to partition the design into sections for 3D printing.  It would be very straight forward to just print the sections for the front and make the design 2-3' deep.

carl552 posted:

I had to partition the design into sections for 3D printing.  It would be very straight forward to just print the sections for the front and make the design 2-3' deep.

Sorry, mean't inches not feet, LOL

Hint hint ....

Fabulous work!

Peter

If I were to model this ( and I'm not because I could not do this as well as it was done) I would have used a 2D laser cutter/engraver for a lot of the Flat sections that would have been cut faster such as the arch form structure and the windows.  The rest of the details that could not be made as flat cuts with the 3D printer making parts with back-pegs to fit slots cut into the 2D pieces.

The 3D printer makes parts so precise that fitting pieces together can be made extremely tight as Carl has made them.

Great piece of work. 

Carl....I smell a good article for the magazine!  You interested?

I am about to start work on a upgrade of the CUT model.  It would be great to do an article.  I will take photos every step of the way keep a journal.  When completed you can decide if it rates and article.

Carl

Carl - I really love the 3D print of Union Terminal you had created and the amount of detail you have put in the model. I currently work there, and was planning to 3D print the building myself as a gift for the other people who work in the building, but I could not get the detail of the relief carvings like you did. Are you comfortable selling a copy of your 3D file of the model? I will purchase it at any price you feel is appropriate, I am willing to accommodate for how ever much time it took for you to model the building. 

I was so impressed with this I shared it with my brother in law who is an architect for the City of Cincinnati. He was blown away. I wish I could get the old Atlanta Terminal Station done. If you have never seen it 

This is a truly amazing piece of work! Dad brought me to the terminal during "dark days" after the main rotunda shut down and was left to rot. I remember dad describing how grand it was and how sad he was to see it decaying like that.  Turns out we weren't supposed to be in there and we got run off by a guard. Good times,  doing criminal trespass stuff with the pops!

Then,  I guess in the early 80s maybe,  they tried to make it a retail mall or something. Vague memories only. I think its current incarnation as a collection of museums is the perfect use for this really spectacular piece of Cincinnati history. 

I'm really impressed with your work! 

The design is being done in about n-scale because that is what will fit in Tinkercad.com.  I use Meshmixer to scale the design up and to cut it into printable pieces.  There are several improvements I want to make before printing the one I want on my layout.  One of the improvements is better versions of the reliefs.  If you send me an email request I will send the n-scale sections of the design.  

The late Chester Holley (who was owner of Chester Holley Model Railroad, located in the Palma Ceia area of Tampa, Florida) scratch built an O scale model of CUT out of wood when he was a young man.  After he had had a large metal building built (that literally engulfed the original concrete block store) the model went on display on top of the roof of the old store.  It could be seen when one entered the South Himes Avenue entrance.  After Chester passed away, his daughter Diane, continued to run the business until she closed it, I believe in the early 2000s.

Sadly, Diane passed away a couple of years ago, however had started to dispose of her dad's huge collection of tinplate trains.  Since I didn't purchase anything out of Chester's collection, I don't know the disposition of the wood model of CUT, however, I'll ask some friends of mine, who like me, were not only customers but very good friends of the family.  Perhaps one of them will know what happened to Chester's beautiful hand built model of CUT.

Note: OGR featured a three part artical about Chester and his collection which can be found in Run 119, 120, and 121.  Chester also ran regular ads in the dealer directory of OGR which read: Chester Holley, The Most, which included the address and phone number.  He was known internationally and sold and shipped trains around the world.  Today there isn't a train shop anywhere in the Tampa Bay area that can come close to Chester's magic world of toy trains which, in my opinion it was, when you entered the store.

@carl552 posted:

The design is being done in about n-scale because that is what will fit in Tinkercad.com.  I use Meshmixer to scale the design up and to cut it into printable pieces.  There are several improvements I want to make before printing the one I want on my layout.  One of the improvements is better versions of the reliefs.  If you send me an email request I will send the n-scale sections of the design.  

Thank you for the prompt response and your generosity to share the model! Is the best email to reach you by the AOL one in your profile? Thanks again, this is much appreciated. 

My aol email is the best one to contact me.

I asked a good friend who was close to the Holley Clan and he said Chester's daughter Diane started to sell off the not-so-rare trains that was in her dad's collection after he passed away.   A big sell off of the regular inventory that remained when she closed the store was held, however, the rare tinplate which was on display in the family's residence went to an auction house in Mass.  Not sure if the wood model of CUT went to New England or not.  I imagine it did.

Carl

I see your STL files in the 3D repository and I was wondering if you have any plans to post the sectioned files? I have been struggling with Meshmixer and getting manifold errors while trying to partition them myself. Asking Meshmixer to fix them results in mangled files (I am just competent enough to run and fine tune a printer, but not very experienced at CAD or other tools).

Thank you

Meshmixer is a challenge to slice a design.  I had similar problems to yours. If I remember correctly I would do a slice and then save and try to do as few slices as possible to get a printable section.  I sliced on very set lines so I could always start with the complete design and just slice out one section at a time.  I was disappointed in Meshmixer but didn't want to go up the learning curve on another tool.

Carl

Just thought you guys would like to see this photo from this week...not my picture, my wife found it on the interwebs but it's beautiful!

There is a fantastic model of the terminal at the Biltmore Estate in Asheville NC this season. The Biltmore Garden RR is located in Antler Village and will be open through February this year. The exhibit is of famous American RR Stations and has some beauties all constructed of native organic materials.

Sam we need to see more. How about another thread so this one doesn't get hijacked.

Carl,

Have you made any progress on the CUT project?

@carl552 posted:

I have always admired the beautiful Cincinnati Union Terminal, CUT.  It is the train terminal that I have wanted for the layout I am designing.

There are no commercially available CUT O scale models that I could find.  My wife gave me a Prussa  3D printer for Christmas and I decided to build my own model and print it.  My 3D model was scaled down so only 4 sections needed to be printed to build a small CUT model.  The small model is 9" wide, 4 3/4" tall and 6" deep.  I am using the small model to evaluate my design.  An O scale model without the side wings is about 50" wide and 27" tall.  Before I cut the O scale model into sections that can be printed (It will probably take about 10 days to print the parts and $50-100 worth of plastic) I wanted to get suggestions or comments.  I hope to use a real clock, the side reliefs still need some work and I will use inserts for the entrance doors and windows.  The small printed model is shown in the following pictures.

Carl

Great photos very well done! Just shows why the world of parts is changing for the better. The need for “molds” to build parts is over.

@ThatGuy posted:

Great photos very well done! Just shows why the world of parts is changing for the better. The need for “molds” to build parts is over.

Except for mass production.  3D printing is much too slow for larger volumes, as it has been for the entire time since it was first introduced in the early 1980's (called stereolithography at the time).

Excellent for prototyping, and small volumes then; even better now due to cost efficiencies inherent in the newer machines.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Except for mass production.  3D printing is much too slow for larger volumes, as it has been for the entire time since it was first introduced in the early 1980's (called stereolithography at the time).

Excellent for prototyping, and small volumes then; even better now due to cost efficiencies inherent in the newer machines.

Mike

Very true, they have come a long way.

3D printing high volume large models is very hard to do.  You need a printer farm.

it's unfortunate that we can't link up all printers that OGRR forumites have to create a "remote" printer farm.

The my original design was slightly bigger than S scale even then the height of the model was slightly more than 2 feet and that was as big as I wanted for my layout.  However, I did not like the scale of the entrance level.  The entrance level was redesigned to be O scale height and the doors were made O Scale width.  I have printed those parts but have not assembled them yet.  As Alan commented it takes about 2-3 weeks to print all the parts.  For cutting the design into printable size parts the Prusa cutting option in the its slicer was used instead of Meshmixer.  I am still trying to design reliefs that I am satisfied with.  The .STL designs of the original model are in the 3D print repository.  https://readycloud.netgear.com...dings%20by%20Carl%20(carl552)/Cincinnati%20Union%20Terminal.

Carl