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Since I no longer seem to be able to stick to just a few roads, I recently picked up enough Erie heavyweight cars to justify seeking a locomotive to pull them.  My knowledge of this road is not great other than it ran in the state I grew up in, adopted 6' wide gauge prior to going to standard gauge around the Civil War, and was a bit of an ugly stepchild in the NYC to Chicago routes compared to the PRR, NYC, and Lackawanna.

From my basic research it appears that any late steam era passenger trains were pulled by Pacifics prior to dieselization in 1954.  Did other classes of Erie steam pull passenger trains in the post WWII era?  For the amount of cars I have a single E8 or PA would be more than enough power, but for some reason, I am wanting to find a steam locomotive for this train.

What is out there in O scale?  Please educate me!

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Will 2nd that suggestion Pete - I picked up one of these recently from here on the Forum and am very pleased with it. Smokes well and sounds great. Had never seen one before so didn't know anything about it. Do you know if it is 'too long' like the PRR k4 from 2002 as it measures 13" from the rear of the headlight to the lip of the cab. The same length as my K-Line Hudson.

The feedwater heater is very nicely detailed for 2001 Lionel.

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Last edited by c.sam

The only model of an Erie pacific I am aware of, is the one done by Max Grey.   The was a brass import probably built by KTM as many MG and most USH.    I think it is a "heavy" USRA but heavily modified on the details.    The most promienat is a feedwater heater in front of the stack.     These show up at O Scale shows periodically.    As far as I know that was the only run of this prototype made.

It is a 2 rail loco, but since you do both, it might be of interest.

Interesting about the MTH model K5 posted by Tom above. I had a Gilbert Flyer K5 as a boy and never knew the difference between a K4 and K5.  I want to get a new 'scale' pilot set for my Erie Pacific as Lionel rarely provides a decent set so they can run on 036/048 Fastrack. With selling these nice scale steamers it aggravates me they they don't come standard with or at least provide an optional  scale pilot with purchase. How many of us run them on 036? The MTH model looks so much better with just the little difference in size. My Lionel Mikado suffers the same deficiency. SO much 'air' around the undersized Lionel pilot in the photo above..

Also noticed that the new Legacy Dreyfuss still comes with less-than scale pilots...   Good job Lionel!    :-(

Last edited by c.sam

the Gilbert American Flyer K5s I have seen were based on the PRR K5 not the Erie engine.    PRR had 2 K5s and they looked like K4s bulked up on Steroids.    It was an experiment to see if they could additional power they wanted from a larger pacific.     the American Flyer Atlantic was based on a Reading loco I think.

I have heard the reason that Gilbert chose larger locos was to be able to fit the motors available at the time into the fireboxes.  

@prrjim posted:

The only model of an Erie pacific I am aware of, is the one done by Max Grey.   The was a brass import probably built by KTM as many MG and most USH.    I think it is a "heavy" USRA but heavily modified on the details.   

Williams (Samhongsa) offered a brass 3RO USRA Pacific back in the 80's, and it is an excellent representation (with a basic detail level) of the USRA Heavy Pacific. I do not recall Wms referring to it as Light or Heavy. The proportions are dead on, I'd say. The model came with the later-applied Delta trailing truck you see here; the original USRA-spec trailing truck was  a Cole built-up type.

A million years ago I decaled this one for the M&O (they had USRA Lights, not Heavies, but when I got this the 3RO loco selection was far thinner), and it actually has a TAS TMCC/sound upgrade. No cruise, not then. Fills the entire tender. Runs well, it's Korean. I added the headlight visor. I have a photo (can't post it) of one of the real Erie USRA Heavies, as delivered (before the Elescos and such), and, except for the truck, it looks pretty much like the Williams. Correct dome shapes and boiler proportions.

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@prrjim posted:

the Gilbert American Flyer K5s I have seen were based on the PRR K5 not the Erie engine.    PRR had 2 K5s and they looked like K4s bulked up on Steroids.    It was an experiment to see if they could additional power they wanted from a larger pacific.     the American Flyer Atlantic was based on a Reading loco I think.

I have heard the reason that Gilbert chose larger locos was to be able to fit the motors available at the time into the fireboxes. 

My father collects Flyer S gauge and restored a K5 to like new condition.  Definitely a PRR prototype of a rare PRR locomotive, but such a well-executed model for the era with the design of the smoke unit. 

Likewise, the Atlantic is indeed based on the Reading prototype with the Wooten fire box.  If I were in S gauge, I would enjoy having both of those in my collection. 

Thank you everyone for the great info.  It sounds like one way or the other, a Pacific is the steam locomotive to pursue for an Erie passenger train.  I have a Williams Southern PS-4 that I had to replace the Delta and the lead truck on.  I'm hesitant to repaint it, but it does have the Elesco feedwater heater even it if is not recessed into the smokebox like the Erie prototype.  These do show up fairly well priced from time to time so that might be a nice budget option.  I've been looking for a project locomotive to learn how to solder brass anyway for the collection of details I've been secretly amassing.

My cars are 3-rail, but that doesn't mean much.  I swap wheel sets all the time so the Max Gray may be the one to track down one day when I finally get a two-rail layout in place.  I have seen Lionel ones online, but I am a little surprised at the cost.  They seem to be going for the $700 plus range for something I'd probably end up modifying anyway.  Still eBay is a funny place, so I'll keep my eyes open for a reasonably priced one.  I have an MTH CNJ 2-rail Pacific project that's floundered the last few years and an upgraded PS2 CNJ Blue Comet P47.  Won't be making those donors, but MTH does make a nice Heavy USRA model.

Overall, I have always been a fan of the Pacific over the Hudson so it will be a fun adventure to track down a locomotive.  I know that is heresy to the NYC people on here, but considering I grew up in what was PRR/CN J territory, the Pacific ruled while the Hudson "drooled"?    More likely the motive departments of the two above said roads drooled over the prospect of new power when the budget didn't allow it!

This has been great and I appreciate the info!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Thank you everyone for the great info.  It sounds like one way or the other, a Pacific is the steam locomotive to pursue for an Erie passenger train.  I have a Williams Southern PS-4 that I had to replace the Delta and the lead truck on.  I'm hesitant to repaint it, but it does have the Elesco feedwater heater even it if is not recessed into the smokebox like the Erie prototype.  These do show up fairly well priced from time to time so that might be a nice budget option.  I've been looking for a project locomotive to learn how to solder brass anyway for the collection of details I've been secretly amassing.

My cars are 3-rail, but that doesn't mean much.  I swap wheel sets all the time so the Max Gray may be the one to track down one day when I finally get a two-rail layout in place.  I have seen Lionel ones online, but I am a little surprised at the cost.  They seem to be going for the $700 plus range for something I'd probably end up modifying anyway.  Still eBay is a funny place, so I'll keep my eyes open for a reasonably priced one.  I have an MTH CNJ 2-rail Pacific project that's floundered the last few years and an upgraded PS2 CNJ Blue Comet P47.  Won't be making those donors, but MTH does make a nice Heavy USRA model.

Overall, I have always been a fan of the Pacific over the Hudson so it will be a fun adventure to track down a locomotive.  I know that is heresy to the NYC people on here, but considering I grew up in what was PRR/CN J territory, the Pacific ruled while the Hudson "drooled"?    More likely the motive departments of the two above said roads drooled over the prospect of new power when the budget didn't allow it!

This has been great and I appreciate the info!

What did you ever do with that CNJ non Blue Vomit stuff?…that’d make a nice start for a kit bash!!….I think I have a tender shell close to the one in Johnnyspeeds’s reply….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

What did you ever do with that CNJ non Blue Vomit stuff?…that’d make a nice start for a kit bash!!….I think I have a tender shell close to the one in Johnnyspeeds’s reply….

Pat

Pat,

Like most of my projects and likely the way this one will go for a while, that project is sitting on a shelf awaiting my attention.  I found a 2-rail tender for it at the Chicago O scale show two years ago.  Now I need to get a pilot, motor, valve gear, and Lord knows what else to finish it.  Oh yeah, some screws to hold it all together..... 

Not to mix work and fun, but I've got P42s on the brain this month and not P47s.  Exciting on another level as what I'm seeing out of design on that project will turn some heads for anyone who is thinking the other brand's are an accurate rendition of that much more modern passenger locomotive.  However, I won't say more because I don't want to get this thread deleted!

@Norton posted:

Prices are all over the map. I paid 350 for mine just last year. Train shows are better source these days.

Pete

That is in line with what I'd be happy to pay for one and then work on it from there starting with the pilot truck.  Train shows are not as common in AZ and east coast road equipment is even less common, but every now and then these kind of locomotives show up at my TCA Division Auctions.  Maybe I'll get lucky!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Pat,

Like most of my projects and likely the way this one will go for a while, that project is sitting on a shelf awaiting my attention.  I found a 2-rail tender for it at the Chicago O scale show two years ago.  Now I need to get a pilot, motor, valve gear, and Lord knows what else to finish it.  Oh yeah, some screws to hold it all together.....

Not to mix work and fun, but I've got P42s on the brain this month and not P47s.  Exciting on another level as what I'm seeing out of design on that project will turn some heads for anyone who is thinking the other brand's are an accurate rendition of that much more modern passenger locomotive.  However, I won't say more because I don't want to get this thread deleted!

Truth be told, …it was a loaded question!….I need the stock MTH tender shell that would’ve come behind that CNJ heavy, or from the blue vomit, or some of the other heavy Pacifics …..hence my inquiry …..🥸

Pat

Last edited by harmonyards

Was very fortunate to have found mine for just $300. Where would I pick up a larger scale sized pilot wheel set for it that would be a 'drop in' fit?

IMG_8282

Looking at the photo in Tom's post above with the MTH & Lionel models, the trailing truck seems rather small visually for the space around it. Would it be 'heresy' to put a small 4 wheel truck in there instead?  :-)

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Last edited by c.sam
@c.sam posted:

Was very fortunate to have found mine for just $300. Where would I pick up a larger scale sized pilot wheel set for it that would be a 'drop in' fit?

IMG_8282

Looking at the photo in Tom's post above with the MTH & Lionel models, the trailing truck seems rather small visually for the space around it. Would it be 'heresy' to put a small 4 wheel truck in there instead?  :-)

I make very nice ones, but sometimes they require mods to the pilot truck pivot hoop to navigate, also, your curves play a role in what’s allowable, and what’s not, …below is pic of a Kline Hudson pilot truck fitted with scale sized pilot wheels….contact via profile for details….( another shameless plug Johnathan! )

Pat IMG_8163

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@c.sam posted:

Was very fortunate to have found mine for just $300. Where would I pick up a larger scale sized pilot wheel set for it that would be a 'drop in' fit?

IMG_8282

Looking at the photo in Tom's post above with the MTH & Lionel models, the trailing truck seems rather small visually for the space around it. Would it be 'heresy' to put a small 4 wheel truck in there instead?  :-)

I purchased a Lionel Hodges trailing truck to replace the broken one on my Williams Southern PS4 and it does appear to be too small.  It was either that or a 2 rail brass one and I know the Lionel one would be an easy fix.  I figure it is better than replacing it with a Delta truck. 

I see how a more scale like pilot and lead truck would benefit this locomotive greatly.  Otherwise, it's got great lines.

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