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The 2-8-4 Berkshire type locomotive is an icon for fans of modern steam locomotives. The wheel arrangement made its debut in the mid 1920s and the last were built in 1949. A total of 611 Berkshire type locomotives were built in North America and most Berkshires were built to one of just three designs. Models of each of those three plus one unique class of Berkshire are available today in O scale.

 

The original Lima Berkshires

 

In an era in which many new locomotive designs came from the ideas of a railroad mechanical department the Berkshire type locomotive originated with the Lima Locomotive Works. The first locomotive took shape in steel as a factory owned demonstrator to show railroads what Lima's super power concepts could do for them.

 

The original Lima 2-8-4 was built in 1924 and numbered A-1. It was an effort by Lima to continue the development they had done with the 2-8-2 Mikado type. The Lima built H-10 class Mikes of the New York Central System had demonstrated superiority over earlier locomotives of the same wheel arrangement by producing more peak horsepower and doing so with greater overall fuel economy. They did this through the use of a large fire box as well as other refinements. The fire box on the H-10 was near the limits of what could be supported by a single axle trailing truck. Lima provided the A-1 with 100 square feet of grate area and a two axle trailing truck to support the huge fire box. The A-1 retained the 63 inch diameter drive wheels of a typical Mikado and it was equipped with a booster engine for starting and low speed heavy hauling. The combination of a powerful boiler, booster engine and medium sized drivers made the A-1 a versatile locomotive that could handle substantial tonnage on grades and make good time with fast freights on the flatter portions of a railroad.

 

Among Lima's first customers for locomotives based on the A-1 design were the Boston & Albany of the New York Central System and their competitor the Boston and Maine. The new engines worked on the grades of the Berkshire hills, the geographical feature that provided the popular name for the wheel arrangement. The Illinois Central also ordered 50 Berkshire locomotives from Lima and purchased the A-1 itself. All together Lima built over 150 locomotives to their original design between 1926 and 1930.

 

K-Line produced models of the A-1 type Berkshire in both two rail and 3 rail O scale. Both conventional and TMCC equipped versions were manufactured. Lionel offered three rail models produced from the K-Line tooling in the 2013 Signature edition catalog. The latest Lionel Berkshires come with Legacy electronics and were cataloged in seven road names. The road numbers and 2013 catalog numbers are listed with their respective catalog illustrations.

 

Lima A-1, 6-11390

Boston & Albany 1404, 6-11389

Boston & Maine 4018, 6-11386

 

Illinois Central 7020, 6-11391

Michigan Central 1420, 6-11392

 

By 1945 the B&M had received twelve A-B-B-A sets of General Motors FT locomotives. The new Diesel road freight units made some of the Lima Berks surplus to the B&Ms needs. With the war effort swinging to the Pacific there was a great need for motive power on western railroads. Seven B&M berks went to the Santa Fe in 1945. Lionel has represented them with AT&SF 4199 cataloged as 6-11387.


 

Ten went to the Southern Pacific as represented by SP 3505, cataloged in 2013 as the 6-11388.

 

The ERIE Berkshires

 

In the late 1920s the Erie considered its market position and decided that it needed new locomotives with a combination of power and speed to compete for fast freight in the New York-Chicago corridor. While the Lima Berkshires had many advanced features the Erie wanted a locomotive with even greater capabilities. Erie designed a locomotive that took advantage of the Erie's broad clearances with a larger diameter boiler and 70 inch drivers. Alco, Baldwin and Lima all supplied Berkshires built to the Erie design between 1927 and 1929.

 

Sunset is now offering models of the Erie S-3 and S-4 Berkshires in 2 and 3 rail.

 

Advisory Mechanical Committee Berkshires

 

At the time the Erie developed their bigger, faster Berkshires the railroad was owned by the Van Sweringen brothers. The Van Sweringens also controlled the Chesapeake & Ohio, the Pere Marquette and the Nickle Plate Road. The four railroads formed a group called the Advisory Mechanical Committee to oversee locomotive engineering. In 1930 the C&O had a need for a locomotive with a combination of tractive effort and speed and tested an Erie Berkshire. While its performance was impressive the C&O decided that a ten coupled locomotive was needed and used the Erie locomotive as the starting point for a 2-10-4 design with 69 inch drivers. When the Nickle Plate needed a new locomotive for fast freight service in 1934 the C&O 2-10-4 was used as the basis for the new 2-8-4 design. The AMC Berkshires featured 69 inch drivers The grate area was 90 square feet, ten less than the original Lima or Erie designs. The AMC Berks also have slightly shorter tube length than their predecessors but they were the first Berkshires to have a combustion chamber. The result was a wonderfully balanced design with the versatility to perform well hauling fast freight, heavy tonnage and even in some passenger services.

 

The AMC Berkshire became one of the most important locomotive designs of the Super Power era. After the original NPK locomotives had proven highly successful the Pere Marquette ordered their first AMC Berkshires in 1937. The NKP, PM and C&O all ordered more AMC Berkshires during World War II. Other railroads also ordered locomotives built to the AMC design including the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac, Virginian and Wheeling & Lake Erie. The last commercially built steam locomotive in the USA was NKP 779, constructed by Lima in 1949. The power and speed capabilities of AMC Berkshires have made them a popular choice for mainline passenger excursions in the Diesel era with PM 1225 and NKP 765 remaining active today.

 

Lionel AMC Berkshires

 

Lionel makes an AMC Berkshire model with dome placement to accurately model Pere Marquette and Nickle Plate Berks. They were first cataloged in 2003-2004 and have reappeared in 2010 and 2014.

 

PM 1225, 6-38052 2003 Volume I

PM 1225, 6-11146 2008 Volume I

PM 1225, 6-11203 2010 Volume I

PM 1225, 6-11455 2014 signature

PM 1227, 6-11456 2014 Signature

 

After the PM was folded into the C&O in 1947 the first fifteen PM Berks were relettered for the C&O and renumbered 2685-2699. Lionel has offered models of the PM Berks in C&O livery. They are distinguished from the 2-8-4s purchased by the C&O by their PM style boiler tube pilots, center mounted head lights and forward steam domes.  They have been offered with two different styles of tender lettering.

 

C&O 2699, 6-38076 2004 Volume 2

C&O 2696, 6-11129 included in the 6-30066 set from the 2009 Signature catalog

C&O 2687, 6-11452 2014 Signature catalog

 

Nickle Plate

 

NKP 779, 6-38050 2003 Volume II

NKP 765, 6-11212 2010 Signature

NKP 765, 6-11454 2014 Signature

 

Virginian 508, 6-38077 appeared in the 2004 Volume II catalog and has the correct oval number plate centered on the front of the smoke box and low mounted head light but incorrect domes for a Virginian 2-8-4.

 

Lionel has offered their AMC Berk as a stand in for an Erie locomotive on two occasions.

 

Erie 3315, 6-38051 2003 Volume I

Erie 3321, 6-11453 2014 Signature

 

MTH Advisory Mechanical Committee Berkshires

 

MTH introduced the first diecast O scale Berkshire model in their 1999 Volume II catalog. The earliest were conventional control with Protosound in the 3 rail version. Since then they have been made with Protosound 2 and 3. Both 2 rail and 3 rail versions have been cataloged although the 2 rail models are rare.

 

The Nickel Plate has been the most popular subject for MTH's AMC Berkshires.

 

NKP 765 20-3032-1, -2 1999 Volume II

NKP 779 20-3071-1 Uncataloged

NKP 769 20-3291-1 2007 Volume II

NKP 740 20-3566-1/22-3566-2 2015 Volume I

NKP 755 20-3567-1/22-3567-2 2015 Volume I

NKP 765 20-3568-1/22-3568-2 2015 Volume I

NKP 766 20-3569-1 set 2015 Volume I

NKP 750 20-3570-1 set 2015 Volume I

 

20-3063-1, 2001 Volume III represents NKP 759 as she appeared in 1969 for the Golden Spike Centennial Limited.

 

Pere Marquette

 

PM 1225, 20-3066-1 2001 Volume III

 

The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac bought ten AMC based 2-8-4s from Lima in 1943. Although true to the AMC design they differed from their NKP sisters in details like domes, pilots and compressor mounting. MTH offered their Nickle Plate Berk as RF&P 580 in the 2007 Volume II catalog as 20-3292-1.

 

MTH has offered their NKP style AMC locomotive as a stand in for a Erie Berkshire as well as the L&N's “Big Emma” EM-1.

 

Erie 3325, 20-3065-1 2001 Volume III

Erie 3331, 20-3290-1 2007 Volume II

 

L&N 1974, 20-3064-1 2001 Volume III

 

MTH also used their NKP Berk as a curious stand in for C&O 2727 dressed up like a real world Reading T-1 decorated in garish 1970s colors for the Chessie Steam Special. The MTH model is as much inspired by the real excursion locomotive as the early 80s Lionel 736 style Berkshire that wore similar decoration.

 

Chessie 2727, 20-3289-1 2007 Volume II

 

MTH is the only maker of a correct diecast C&O 2-8-4 Kanawha in O scale. While identical to other AMC 2-8-4s in overall dimensions the C&O locomotives have the sand dome in front of the steam dome, a foot board pilot, shielded air compressors mounted on the pilot deck, a low mounted headlight, oval number plate centered on the smoke box door and a larger tender. MTH tooled up to capture all those details. First offered in 2005 the MTH Kanawha is a must have for fans of C&O steam.

 

C&O 2705, 20-3186-1 2005 Volume II

C&O 2736, 20-3187-1 2005 Volume II

C&O 2727, 20-3419-1 2010 Volume II

C&O 2716, 20-3420-1 set 2010 Volume II

 

 

MTH has also offered their C&O 2-8-4 lettered for the Southern. While the Southern did not have any 2-8-4s in the steam era it did lease C&O 2716 fo steam excursion service and gave modern rail fans a taste of southern fried Berk. MTH has offered Southern 2-8-4s in prototypical black and should have been green. The first fantasy green locomotive was first offered as the 2790, one above the highest numbered real C&O locomotive.

 

SOU 2716, 20-3188-1 2005 Volume II

SOU 2716, 20-3418-1 2010 Volume II


 

SOU 2790, 20-3189-1 2005 Volume II

SOU 2775, 20-3417-1 2010 Volume II

 

P&LE A-2a

 

The last new 2-8-4 locomotive design was commissioned by the New York Central System's Pittsburgh & Lake Erie and designated the A-2a class. Built by Alco in 1948, this group of seven locomotives was something of a throwback design compared to the AMC Berks and reverted to 63 inch drive wheels. They were the last steam locomotives built by the American Locomotive Company. In fact, only the locomotives were built by Alco since they had already converted their tender shop to other use. The tenders were built under subcontract by Lima and the MTH models sport prototypical diamond shaped Lime builder's plates.

 

P&LE 9401, 20-3128 appeared in the MTH 2004 Volume I catalog.

 

Hopefully this thread can grow into a complete reference for those interested in O scale Berkshires.  Your comments, corrections or additions are most welcome. Let is know about the details, features and operating characteristics of your Berkshires.

 

And let's see those O scale Berkshire photos!

 

For information on other types of locomotives see the O Scale Locomotive Guide.

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...ale-locomotive-guide

 

And for information on scale freight cars see O Scale Freight Car Guide.

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...le-freight-car-guide

 

 

Last edited by Ted Hikel
Original Post

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You have neglected to mention that Max Grey imported a nice brass NKP Berkshire in the late 50s.   This was scale 2-rail

 

US HObbies also imported an NKP Berkshire in the 60s and 70s in brass.    I think there were more than one run, maybe 2 or 3.    This was similar the MG mentioned above but with much better lost wax castings.   this is my favorite of the brass ones and a very good runner with a very well-built mechanism.    This was only done in 2 rail also.

 

Weaver also imported a brass one in both 2 and 3 rail.    These came painted.   They are nice but since they were also done in 3 rail, the front pilot deck was extend and the pilot pulled forward to compensate for the sharper 3 rail curves.   This is a very nice conventional runner worth installing your favorite electronics in in 3 rail.

 

While the newer diecast has gotten very good, I think (opinion here) that the details are sharper and finer on the handbuilt brass models.    I think all the brass stuff is hand assembled in smaller runs.

Originally Posted by Charles Neundorfer:

Although I did not get one, when MTH made the last run of Southern Kanawha

engines, they looked very interesting. I enjoyed reading about the different Berks.

I would like even more info on Kanawha models.

Thanks for the write up.

Actually the Southern Railway never had any 2-8-4 type steam locomotives back in the days of regular steam. The model MTH offered was of the "Excursion era" locomotive the Southern used for awhile, which was a former C&O Kanawha #2716, and the Southern's Steam Shop in Birmingham, AL changed the front end to look more like a Southern Railway locomotive. The MTH version of that SR excursion locomotive looks quite nice, in my opinion.

Sunset/3rd Rail offered B&M Berks, Berks Santa Fe bought from B&M, and SP Berks bought from B&M a few years back.  A well done great running engine.  No die cast compromises.

 

I talked to the K-Line rep years ago about a version they could have made for the Santa Fe that had a top mounted Elesco Feedwater heater.  He said they modified the mold and it could no longer be done.  I wish I had talked to them sooner. 

 

ATSFBERK

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Last edited by marker

I, who prefer 4-8-2's and Northerns, even found this an educational and informative read. Apparently, except for the war time used loco sales of the coffin feedwater heater

SP and ATSF versions, no western roads bought these, at least,  new?  The DT&I had

Lima build their 700 series, six 2-8-4's, to the AMC design.  I guess none of them

have been done, even in brass, but certainly not in three rail?

May I humbly point out that the first Legacy offering of PM 1225 from 2008 is missing from the list? Catalog number is 6-11146.

 

Greg

 

Good catch!  It has been added to the OP.

 

Dave

 

Gee, I've never received a 21 gun salute before.  Thanks! 

 

PRRJIM and Marker

 

Thanks for sharing the information on earlier brass Berkshires.  There is very little info on the web regarding what brass models have been manufactured over the years.  With info on brass model this can really become the reference source for O scale Berks.

 

Bob2 also shared some information on another early O scale Berkshire model and he has graciously allowed me to re-post his photos here.  One prototype not yet mentioned are the 12 Berkshires built by Alco in 1927 for the Chicago & Northwestern.  These were the first Berks built with cast steed trailing trucks and they also served as the pattern for the five IGN/MP and the two TH&B Berks.  Lobaugh made a model of the C&NW berks circa 1940.  With the lack of a mention of a more recent brass model they may still be the best bet for a fan of the C&NW Berkshires or their derivatives.

 

This locomotive is stock Lobaugh.

Bob2 modified this Lobaugh model to depict an MP Berk.  His dome configuration very accurately models the Mo Pac locomotives.

Last edited by Ted Hikel

Lobaugh: Rollin ran a screw machine company in south San Francisco.  When things slowed down, rather than laying off his employees, he put them to work making O Scale kits.  His springboard was the 17/64 "Pratt" Harriman 0-6-0, and all subsequent steamers had generally the same construction.

 

Frames were cast "red art bronze", machined, drilled, and tapped if you paid extra.  Drivers were cast iron, quartered with Woodruff keys, not unlike the real thing.  Boilers were spun brass, and quite heavy compared to today's imports.  The quality built in to these models was, in my opinion, easily comparable to the contemporary Lionel 700 series.

Last edited by bob2

Sunset promised to deliver all kinds of Berkshires, including the C&O Kanawha. I cannot wait for that one and I hope there will be enough interest so that the project does not get cancelled.

 

MTH truly captured the beauty of the Kanawha in 2 and 3 rails with this incredible model:

This picture belongs to a current or former member of this forum. I have been looking for one of these MTH in 2 rails with no luck so far. If you have one and are willing to part with it, I will be happy to buy it from you.

 

The MTH is not brass but die-cast in white metal with brass parts glued on. Nevertheless, it is a glorious model.

 

Yves

That photo was taken by Rich Battista.  He is very much an active member of this site.

 

Rich's Black Diamond Railway and videos do a beautiful job of showing off the latest and greatest in O scale model trains.

 

To see more of Rich's MTH Kanawha look here.

 

http://www.toytrainsontracks.c...hotoPageKanawha.html

 

And to see Rich's photos of an NKP Berk by MTH look here.

 

http://www.toytrainsontracks.c...shire/PhotoPage.html

 

The Black Diamond Railway home page is here.

 

http://www.toytrainsontracks.com/

 

And if anyone needs custom machine work Rollin J. Lobaugh Inc is still very much in business, just not the model train business.  A nice article appeared in the San Francisco Business Journal a few years ago.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/san...focus4.html?page=all

If I remember correctly, dealers actually had a hard time getting rid of the Virginian Berks back in 2003.
 
IIRC, the NKPs sold out first, then the Eries....then the Virginian seemed to lag around for a while, even at "blow out" prices.
 
On a side note, have I really had my Lionel 779 (38050) for 11 years?  Where on earth has the time gone?
 
Originally Posted by M J Breen:

A wonderful,interesting and well written comparison.

 

What you left out is how hard it is to find the Lionel 6-38077 Virginian 2-8-4!! Incorrect steam domes or not its an elusive sonofagun.

 

I've never seen this model in person but wow....that's really sharp.
 
That's got to look great running alongside their 614.
 
Originally Posted by Yves:

Sunset promised to deliver all kinds of Berkshires, including the C&O Kanawha. I cannot wait for that one and I hope there will be enough interest so that the project does not get cancelled.

 

MTH truly captured the beauty of the Kanawha in 2 and 3 rails with this incredible model:

This picture belongs to a current or former member of this forum. I have been looking for one of these MTH in 2 rails with no luck so far. If you have one and are willing to part with it, I will be happy to buy it from you.

 

The MTH is not brass but die-cast in white metal with brass parts glued on. Nevertheless, it is a glorious model.

 

Yves

 

Patrick, MJ and BP

 

I'm glad that you have enjoyed reading this thread.  We are fortunate to have such a variety of models available.

 

I have a few questions for Berkshire owners and operators.

 

The K-line Berkshires have an unusual motor arrangement with a small motor placed forward in the boiler rather than aft in the fire box area.  Lionel has used the old K-Line tooling for the Legacy Lima Berks.  How are they as pullers?

 

MTH and Lionel have both made AMC Berkshires and each has designed the tooling to allow them to change details to correctly model several of the specific versions of the AMC Berks.  I believe the MTH models use separately applied brass detail parts for the sand lines.  Do the Lionel models use separate parts for the sand lines or are they part of the boiler casting?

Last edited by Ted Hikel
Originally Posted by c.sam:

Ted,  am not certain if I'm remembering this correctly but I think someone wrote awhile back that Lionel redesigned the chassis in the Legacy (K-Line) Berks with a conventional rear placement of the (larger) motor.

 

Can someone clarify here?

Yes, the Lionel version has a large Canon motor in the rear/ firebox. It barely fits under the shell casting.

 

Its comparable in size to the Pittman motors that were common years ago.

 

It should pull whatever you put behind it until you exceed the limits of the locomotive weight and traction tires.

 

The motor will not be an issue.

Last edited by RickO

I admire Lionel's engineers.  I put the motor in the firebox on mine, and it was not an easy task.  I suppose it would have been easier if I had just sawed the back end of the frame off and started over with fresh metal.

 

K-Line, in my opinion, committed sacrilege with their U-shaped boilers and motors over the cylinders.  Sawing off those skirts and replacing them with round was likewise not an easy task.  The rest of their Berk/Hudson models were very well done.

Originally Posted by Ted Hikel: 

I have a few questions for Berkshire owners and operators.

 

The K-line Berkshires have an unusual motor arrangement with a small motor placed forward in the boiler rather than aft in the fire box area.  Lionel has used the old K-Line tooling for the Legacy Lima Berks.  How are they as pullers?

I'm a bit late to this discussion but, I have one of those great looking K-Line B&A Berks, and it doesn't pull with a crap! I know I guy who purchased one when they came out, and immediately had it pulling VERY long trains on a "club layout". The motor quit in rather short order, so after contacting K-Line, he shipped it back for "warranty repair". 

 

After he got the "repaired" model back, he went right back to pulling long trains again, and sure enough the replacement motor quit. To make a long sordid story short, after quite a number of trips back and fourth to K-Line, after the 4th or 5th trip, the K-Line service people put an additional new motor, packed separately in the box with the model and a note stating that if the motors fails AGAIN, "You fix it!", as K-Line would not longer be responsible.

 

I have NEVER had any pulling issues with ANY of my Sunset/3rd Rail, Lionel, MTH, nor Atlas steam & diesel models, and I tend to operating longer trains, even on our home layout. As great looking as the K-Line B&A Berk is, it is a VERY poor performer, with that small motor mounted up in the forward portion of the boiler instead of the widest portion, which is the firebox. On the other hand, my NYC 4-6-4T "commuter tank engine" by K-Line is an excellent performer. 

The K-Line motor was an incredibly small cheapo motor.  It had to be small; putting it behind the cylinders was quite confining, even though the boiler was unwrapped at that point.  It should have lasted about as long as it did.

 

We had one eat the axle gear.  At the time one of the museum members had a gear cutting setup, and he made a new gear.  K-Line had some very good ideas, but they should have hired an O Scale locomotive builder to help out with some of these engineering fiascos.  Opinion.

Originally Posted by bob2:

 K-Line had some very good ideas, but they should have hired an O Scale locomotive builder to help out with some of these engineering fiascos.  Opinion.

100% agree! I got into a "discussion" with one of the K-Line "Engineers" at the Chicago International Hobby Show, quite some years ago, concerning the desirability of 4-chuffs per revolution on their high end "scale" steam models. His retort was, "4-chuffs wouldn't be right, because at 90 miles an hour the locomotive would sound like a Wearing Blender!". My only answer was, "What the he%% do you think a REAL steam locomotive sounds like at 90 MPH?".  He glared at me and said, "I would have no idea but, do YOU???". I responded with, "As a matter of fact, I REALLY DO!", and walked away. One of my buddies was explaining to the guy who I was and how I REALLY did know about 4-chuffs per revolution.

 

Some years later, I encountered the SAME GUY from K-Line, at another big show, and inquired about why they would design a steam locomotive with the motor way forward in the boiler ( the B&A Berk.), when the firebox was actually the widest part of the locomotive? Again, the idiot didn't believe me.

'Tis unwise to step on Super Man's cape.....or tear the mask off the Lone Ranger. 
 
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by bob2:

 K-Line had some very good ideas, but they should have hired an O Scale locomotive builder to help out with some of these engineering fiascos.  Opinion.

100% agree! I got into a "discussion" with one of the K-Line "Engineers" at the Chicago International Hobby Show, quite some years ago, concerning the desirability of 4-chuffs per revolution on their high end "scale" steam models. His retort was, "4-chuffs wouldn't be right, because at 90 miles an hour the locomotive would sound like a Wearing Blender!". My only answer was, "What the he%% do you think a REAL steam locomotive sounds like at 90 MPH?".  He glared at me and said, "I would have no idea but, do YOU???". I responded with, "As a matter of fact, I REALLY DO!", and walked away. One of my buddies was explaining to the guy who I was and how I REALLY did know about 4-chuffs per revolution.

 

Some years later, I encountered the SAME GUY from K-Line, at another big show, and inquired about why they would design a steam locomotive with the motor way forward in the boiler ( the B&A Berk.), when the firebox was actually the widest part of the locomotive? Again, the idiot didn't believe me.

 

"4-chuffs wouldn't be right, because at 90 miles an hour the locomotive would sound like a Wearing Blender!". My only answer was, "What the he%% do you think a REAL steam locomotive sounds like at 90 MPH?".  He glared at me and said, "I would have no idea but, do YOU???". I responded with, "As a matter of fact, I REALLY DO!", and walked away. One of my buddies was explaining to the guy who I was and how I REALLY did know about 4-chuffs per revolution.

 

Hot Water

 

Oh Boy!  Looking at some of these product descriptions it is amazing that it took until well into the 21st century for some of our major manufacturers to get 4 chuffs per revolution on simple two cylinder locomotives.  Thanks for doing some uphill sledding to help get us there!  It is good to know that all the Proto 2 and 3 locomotives can be set for the proper chuff rate. 

 

I understand that Lionel is now using K-Line's old tooling for their Legacy K4s.  Have these also been upgraded with a larger motor in the conventional firebox location?

 

 

Last edited by Ted Hikel
Originally Posted by Ted Hikel:

 

I understand that Lionel is now using K-Line's old tooling for their Legacy K4s.  Have these also been upgraded with a larger motor in the conventional firebox location?

Boy, I would have no idea. I was surprised that Lionel redesigned the B&A Berk model, but I don't know about any other "former K-Line" models. Maybe someone else here can clear that up, especially since I always heard that the K-Line PRR K4s model was quite well done (but then I'm sure not a "PRR guy").

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