O3R Dimensional Coupler Height Standard?...Is there such a thing?

Perhaps you should check the NMRA standards. It lists O scale coupler height as 0.688"/17.47mm (top of rail to knuckle center), with tolerances of 0.031 / 0.79.

https://www.nmra.org/sites/def.../pdf/s-2_2010.09.pdf

NMRA or Kadee has a height gauge to couple to.

@Magicland posted:

Perhaps you should check the NMRA standards. It lists O scale coupler height as 0.813" / 20.64mm (top of rail to knuckle center), with tolerances of 0.047 / 1.19.

https://www.nmra.org/sites/def.../pdf/s-2_2010.09.pdf

Dont get  O scale and O3R confused, they are very deferent

They are mostly the same across manufacturers, except Williams tends to be a bit high. On some series of Williams freight cars, the factory bent the coupler arm down. That made it the correct height, but now it was at an angle. Couplers should be the correct height and also level.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Dont get  O scale and O3R confused, they are very deferent

Wait, what?

There is only one standard listed, not two.....

@Darrell posted:

Wait, what?

There is only one standard listed, not two.....

But thats O scale!  Lionel Mth ,Williams, and a majority of 03R  , are not scale and dont really follow  NMRA standards .

@Magicland posted:

Perhaps you should check the NMRA standards. It lists O scale coupler height as 0.813" / 20.64mm (top of rail to knuckle center), with tolerances of 0.047 / 1.19.

https://www.nmra.org/sites/def.../pdf/s-2_2010.09.pdf

Well, I did check the standards.  My computer screen sez that "O" scale is 0.688" ± 0.031".

But, as others have reported, and as I have experienced for years and years, the O3R coupler alignments across car styles, generations, materials, manufacturers, etc., etc.,blah, blah, are all over the map within, perhaps, ± 1/8"....or more?

So, if Kadee's O scale coupler gauge is relevant to O3R and O2R, you'd think someone...even, or especially Kadee...would've offered a "Lobster Claw" version of that gauge.  Yes?  No?  I mean, the O3R market is a tad larger than the O2R market...IMHO, of course.

Or is it that we (O3R's) don't care?  After all, they're "just toys"...per the majority of NMRA-ophiles I've dealt with through 60+ years.  I mean, most of the reviews of O3R product I've read don't even mention, at least, gross or problematic deviation from this seemingly important standard.  It reminds me of the dialogue in a production problem meeting  at the company I worked 31+ years.  The plant manager argued to the engineers that "An engineering drawing is but a suggestion of how a part is to be made!"  (It happened...and he became the poster-employee for the Peter Principle  months thereafter.)

OK, I'll give it a rest...the horse is dead.  It is what it is.

0.688" ± 0.031"  (wink, wink)

Amen.

...and thanks to all who responded.

KD

@Dave Koehler posted:

But thats O scale!  Lionel Mth ,Williams, and a majority of 03R  , are not scale and dont really follow  NMRA standards .

Just because it's ignored doesn't mean it's not the standard........

Funny you mention this as we just had a problem at our Sunday train show   A member was running Lionel SD-40s that had a considerably higher coupler than the Lionel hopper cars that he was pulling   The couplers were riding up and splitting the train every 50 feet  These were all from the same manufacturer not a mismatch across.  In the past I had Golden gate depot cars tat were considerably lower than some Atlas engines I had.  All of them were brand new and out of the box .   The williams 55 ton hoppers are considerably higher than their MTH and Atlas counterparts    So I really dont think there is a standard for 3 rail coupler heights   They are all over the place 

Is there a comprehensive guide anywhere that explains in detail how to correct coupler height on O Scale?  I have seen it for other gauges.

John

@bluelinec4 posted:

Funny you mention this as we just had a problem at our Sunday train show   A member was running Lionel SD-40s that had a considerably higher coupler than the Lionel hopper cars that he was pulling   The couplers were riding up and splitting the train every 50 feet  These were all from the same manufacturer not a mismatch across.  In the past I had Golden gate depot cars tat were considerably lower than some Atlas engines I had.  All of them were brand new and out of the box .   The williams 55 ton hoppers are considerably higher than their MTH and Atlas counterparts    So I really dont think there is a standard for 3 rail coupler heights   They are all over the place

There IS a standard, it obviously isn't followed. Blame those who can't be bothered producing products that match the standard, it isn't new.

@dkdkrd posted:

Well, I did check the standards.  My computer screen sez that "O" scale is 0.688" ± 0.031".

But, as others have reported, and as I have experienced for years and years, the O3R coupler alignments across car styles, generations, materials, manufacturers, etc., etc.,blah, blah, are all over the map within, perhaps, ± 1/8"....or more?

So, if Kadee's O scale coupler gauge is relevant to O3R and O2R, you'd think someone...even, or especially Kadee...would've offered a "Lobster Claw" version of that gauge.  Yes?  No?  I mean, the O3R market is a tad larger than the O2R market...IMHO, of course.

Why would Kadee, who, in theory, want you to purchase THEIR products, produce a height gauge for someone else's products? Note that the standard is from the top of rail to CENTER of the knuckle, so it "should" be applicable no matter what type of coupler is used, Kadee or lobster claw.

@dkdkrd posted:

I'm befuddled to find no such dimensional definition in the O3R realm. 

Should not be befuddled; should quickly realize that the various designers either made it up as they went and/or copied each other.

As noted, standards for scale 2 rail exist; 3 rail isn't.

I mean, we all have experienced the variations; some are rather sturdy in their vertical attitude.  Others?...rather floppy, limp, droopy, etc., etc..

Little blue pill....

There once was a movement to have mechanical standards for 3 rail equipment but it kind of fizzled out. This was maybe around 15-18 years ago (I think). There was no interest in it I guess because most toy train enthusiasts, who make up the bulk of O gauge, don’t care. Which explains why the manufacturers are all over the place. They know most enthusiasts aren’t going to complain. I started out in 3 rail and not only did I have one coupler that wasn’t the same height I had another coupler (from K Line) that wouldn’t even close against another manufacturer’s coupler. That was very frustrating.

Other than bending the coupler like someone said how would you adjust the height of a coupler that is permanently fixed to a truck? I have never seen any of the 3 rail Lionel type couplers that have some sort of a height adjustment.

@Magicland posted:

There IS a standard, it obviously isn't followed. Blame those who can't be bothered producing products that match the standard, it isn't new.

So where can I find that standard listed   

I mean, we all have experienced the variations; some are rather sturdy in their vertical attitude.  Others?...rather floppy, limp, droopy, etc., etc..

"Little blue pill...."  ...mwb

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Martin!!! Shame on you!!!...

Here’s a William’s boxcar, coupled to a Lionel TOFC, and a RK Geep. Quite the mismatch!

@dkdkrd posted:

????? What is this?