I need some help from the Ives, Marx and AF steam experts.  Here are some photos from a collection I'm thinking of buying.

First the Ives 4-4-2.  I know nothing about Ives steam engines.  Waht can anyone tell me about this one.  What is it, when was it made, does it have much value ?  Note the Lionel tender.  The owner of this collection seemed to like Lionel whistle tenders with other loco brands.  The Marx engine also has one.

_Ives 1_Ives 2

The next engine has no markings but has that Marx look.  I think I see holes for the swivel mounted pilot truck under the cylinders.  I suspect this one is a very common engine probably best to sell the motor separately.  Which Marx loco is this ?  Prewar or postwar ?

_M 2_M 1

Finally a most interesting American Flyer 0-6-4 "Hudson".  0-6-4 is what the wheel arrangement looks like, as I see no room for a pilot truck.  Looks like  a sheet metal pilot that doesn't resemble anything I can spot in Greenberg.  What's the chance that I could get the parts for a restoration ?  I feel like I should look for a junk quality Hudson that does have the front end parts.

_AF 1_AF 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Not near my info, but the Ives is a Ives 1122, 1929-30. Ones with good castings and motors are quite desirable. One of the nicest looking prewar steamers in my opinion. The Marx is a 999. They had a long production run, late 30’s into the 60’s. Without more pictures, I’d say that one is prewar based on the spoked drivers. A picture of the front would help determine value, but it only came as a 2-4-2.

Steve "Papa" Eastman

Yorba Linda, CA

Left Coast, Home of the lunatics

It looks like your Flyer Hudson has a home-made cow catcher/steam chest on it.  The pilot truck bracket would attach to the same screws that hold the cow catcher / steam chest on.

I don't know of anyone that makes that part, but it is a separate part from the main engine casting.  Your guess of searching for a junker Hudson for the parts is probably the only way you will get the part.  

The Flyer 1680 was called a Hudson but came with a 2 wheeled pilot truck; the cowcatcher is definitely one rigged up to replace the slotted one that was upfront (I don't know if the cowcatcher was part of the shell casting or not), and it looks like the piece that was used as a headlight casing isn't there, either (looks better without it if you ask me).

The IVES #1122 engine appears to have a crudely repaired cab and cowcatcher, missing piston rod/valve gear on one side, incorrect replacement siderods, missing smoke stack brass ferrule, and a modified headlight. 

Eric

TCA, LCCA, Ives Train Society

Thanks Eric, that's very interesting - and good news for me as I'm trying to buy this collection cheaply - some good restoration projects in it.

I just noticed something else.  The pilot on the Ives engind looks similar to that on the AF engine.  Looks like the former owner liked to rebuild engines but wasn't very good at it.

Thanks  Eric, I was referring to the pilot, not the pilot truck.  That flat sheet metal pilot looks like a replacement, as does the sheet metal rear of the cab.  That Ives might have acually made such a pilot strikes me as unlikely.

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I note from your earlier note that there is an Ives train society and I'm pausing my writing to take a look - just found the web site ...  now thinking about joining ...sent an "Information on My Train" request 

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What I suspect at this point is that the engine was dropped breaking off the pilot and part of the cab.  I see that the actual Ives side rods look like  a casting also.

I'm beginning to think that the best value that could be realized for this engine would be to dismantle it and sell the parts, hoping that I can get the motor running.

Is there an active market for Ives pasts such as there is for Lionel ?

Malcolm Laughlin

 

 

 

 

Malcolm,

The Ives Train Society is a great group of collectors and currently has about 250 members. For those attending York, there is a meeting in the Orange hall conference room at noon on Friday. There is always a fascinating display of Ives trains and related discussions. The club website is a handy reference as are the yearly publications.

Regarding parting out the #1122 for parts. No fortune to be realized, but the parts are always desirable and can help someone complete their engine. Ironically, I just purchased a small group of parts for that one missing part I needed for my #1122, the brass ferrule for the smokestack.   

Eric

TCA, LCCA, Ives Train Society

mlaughlinnyc posted:

Thanks  Eric, I was referring to the pilot, not the pilot truck.  That flat sheet metal pilot looks like a replacement, as does the sheet metal rear of the cab.  That Ives might have acually made such a pilot strikes me as unlikely.

------------

I note from your earlier note that there is an Ives train society and I'm pausing my writing to take a look - just found the web site ...  now thinking about joining ...sent an "Information on My Train" request 

----------------

What I suspect at this point is that the engine was dropped breaking off the pilot and part of the cab.  I see that the actual Ives side rods look like  a casting also.

I'm beginning to think that the best value that could be realized for this engine would be to dismantle it and sell the parts, hoping that I can get the motor running.

Is there an active market for Ives pasts such as there is for Lionel ?

Malcolm Laughlin

 

Malcolm,

Unfortunately as others have mentioned, that locomotive is probably best dismantled and sold for parts.

I wouldn't expect to get much, as the most desirable parts are either missing or broken already.

That is a 1929 model.  It may not have been dropped.  The early run of boiler castings on those often crack or fracture in large pieces, on their own, as they age.  Also the early cowcatcher was not reinforced, and over time they become weak and either fracture on their own, or if the wind blows on them the wrong way.  Or it was dropped.  

The piston rods and hangers were steel, the other rods were all die cast metal and often warp or break.

The green 129 & 130 cars you asked about did not come with the 1122.  They are earlier 1920's pieces.

http://ivestrains.org/CD/O_Gau...mlfiles/No1122_1.htm

http://ivestrains.org/CD/O_Gauge/sets/html/576.htm

http://ivestrains.org/CD/O_Gauge/sets/html/575.html

http://ivestrains.org/CD/O_Gau...l/30BlackDiamond.htm

"Built like a Battleship" -Baldwin

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