Old New York

We spoke before about the Trolley Terminal at Delancy and Essex Street where the B&QT cars terminated after coming over the Williamsburg Bridge on trackways on the South Side of the Bridge. There was also Trackways on the North Side of the Bridge. These were used by cars on the Metropolitan railroad and later its successor nNew York Railways. Cars operated fro Washington Plaza on the Brooklyn side of the bridge and ran as follows.

 

Two north-side tracks carried Manhattan streetcars:

 

    Grand Street Line, 1904-1932

    Post Office Line, 1919-1932 (dowtown manhattan Prk Row area)

    Seventh Avenue-Brooklyn Line, 1911-1919

    8th Street Crosstown Line, 1904-1911

    14th Street-Williamsburg Bridge Line, 1904-1911

    Fourth Avenue and Williamsburg Bridge Line( To Grand Central), 1904-1911

 

This company was taken over in the 1930s by the Fifth Ave Coach Companywhich replaced its street car routes in Manhattan with Buses. You might remember the distictive double decker busses used on the 5th ave route of that company .

 

Some photos of this service on the Brooklyn side for your viewing.

 

 

 

 

 

And of course , the distinctive double decker on 5th ave in manhattan

 

 

Ben, if they want to make that terminal a supermarket why don't they just leave the tracks in place and people could use little miniature locomotives and cars instead of shopping carts to move groceries around the store! LOL!

This is a great thread, thanks guy's

 

Tin

 

Hi Folks,

FYI: Here is a neat blog that has nothing but photos of Old New York.

 

http://onceuponatown.tumblr.com/archive

 

 

 

 

Ben showed us some models of the IRT Worlds fair Steinways and the BMT Triplex cars at the NJ Hirailers in another post in this section. So here are a few photos of the real thing. The IRT cars, a fleet of 50 handled the worlds fair express service on the IRT Flushing Service in 1939. They remained in service on this line for 10 or so years beyond the fair until the arrival of new cars in the 1949-50 period. They then worked various IRT lines in Manhattan and Bronx and closed out the era on the Third Ave El in the Bronx. The Triplexes arrived on the BMT in the 1920s worked the routes on the Southern Division and were in service into 1964 or so.

 

Here is a Worlds Fair consist on the Flushing Line ay 52nd st in 1939

 

 

 

A Triplex at Queensborough Plaza in the 1940's . The North Platforms are still in use

 

 

 

We Know the D Types and the worlds Fair cars could be seen at Queensborough Plaza together in the 1939-1949 time frame but havent seen a photo. So Here is a photo from the 1964 Worlds Fair service with the Triplexes arriving at Queensborough Plaza, south platforms on the left and a r-36 Worlds Fair Blue Train on the right

 

 

Here is a pic of the last Steinway that I think is in existence  Its sitting in the 207 st yard

 

 

This is a great thread! Love the pictures and history.

Ben

 

Its amazing it even exits . There were only 50 of these built. The intent was to use these cars for the IRT express service to the Worlds Fair. In those days , the Flushing El was Jointly Operated in Queens with the BMT. The BMT Worlds Fair Service was provided by the Q types which the BMT rebuilt from open platform BU cars, known as gate cars. Both the IRT Worlds fair Steinway cars and the Qs worked this line through the 2 years of the Worlds Fair and to 1949 when the joint service was ended. Interestingly.

Both cars went to work on the Third Ave El .  The Q cars went over about 1949-50 running the Manhattan express service.   When the Third Ave El was cut back to the Bronx only north of 149th st, the IRT Worlds fair Steinways found their way to that line, as well as the Ninth Ave 155th st Shuttle and finished out their careers on the third ave El. The Q's came back to the BMT working the Myrtle Ave El until the El closed in 1969. There was a six car set that was painted in the 1939 Worlds fair Orange and Blue and ran a commemorative run on the Flushing line in 1964. It remained in those colors until 1969. Not sure if that the one in the museum.

 

Third ave El being torn down

 

Here is a pic of the Q cars at Broadway Junction  The flyover that they are on is fom the Canarsie line  Did they run there also?  Looks like the roofs were already lowered too

 

I never knew Forneys operated on the Brooklyn bridge also

 

This is a great pic  Sand street

 

 

 

I think the photo of the El removaal is in the Bronx so it could be from the time when the last piece of the 3rd ave was finally closed.

 

The Picture of the Q's is interesting. When they returned to Brooklyn from the Third Ave El, The Fulton street El service from Eastern parkway was was already removed with the El in Queens having been tied to the IND A line to the Rockaways and the Lexington Ave El was also long gone. These cars I believe only worked Myrtle Ave. Service. They still had high clerestories when they returned and the cars were painted a maroon body with alluminum roofs i believe from photos i have seen.  These Q's in this photo I am thinkink may be on some sort of a fan trip.Operating on this flyover i think was popular for fan trips in the 1960s

 

The Brooklyn Bridge service was originally a Cable railway. It soon became a part of the  Brooklyn Els . These were not electrified until about the turn of the century so therefore the Forney. The Long Island RR had a connection with the El at Flatbush ave and some trains ran from Flatbush Ave to Sands street pictured in the photo. Not sure if LIRR went over the Brooklyn Bridge to park Row. We know that the LIRR did operate over the Williamsburg Bridge into Manhattan first to Essex Street and eventually down to Chanmbers street. The Center platform long out of use was I think for LIRR service at Chambers street. This service began in 1908, two years before LIRR service to penn Station was opened.

 

The photo in the train shed is i believe Park row in Manhattan and not Sand Steet. If you look to the far end, there are two trains in the station and there appears to be a Glass Wall behind them. This terminal was expanded on manhattan so that it reached accross park row as BRT service was expanded. The photo seems to have what appears to be  a date annotation on the bottom right of 1923 or 1933. I think it was taken earlier than that judging by the dress of the person in the foreground on the platform.

Here is a shot of the Park Row terminal from about 1905. In Bens interior photo, we can see that the platform visible in the below photo had been closed in. I think the structure was expanded to the extent of stair cases in the foreground.

 

 

Here is a new one  Anybody want to guess where

 

 

No clue, but the second boxcar in the foreground looks like a B&O wagontop. New York is my favorite place in the world; the architecture, the parks, the rail system,the people, the roads not so much!

The cobblestones look familiar.  I think its somewhere on the west side of Manhattan.  Between the meat packing district and the garment district.

 

Richie

Hi Ben

 

I am thinking that here we are at the Baltimore and Ohio  W 26th street yard  and terminal at on West 25th street looking east. The cars were deliverd by float at W 26th st, crossed under the  West side highway and fed the facility between W 26th and West 24th street. Your photo looks like war time, early 1840s, maybe a sunday morning. Here is another one of the facility and a modelers track plan.

 

 

 

Close   Its date said 1939   The shot is of 33rd street looking east from 11th ave

 

Interior of a Staten Island car

 

And another shot of the Perth Amboy ferry

 

Wow!!!!!  Spectacular pics!!!!!

 

Peter

Ok Ben you said 1939 looking east on 33rd st. The PRR had a W 37th street yard running from W 37th to West 39th and eventually west 40th. I found a yard photo looking east on 38th street and I cansee the building on the right in your photo with the word MILlS on it .From the attached photo of the PRR yard, this looks like the same spot.So I stand corrected, we are on W 38th street looking east.

 

That is a great Photo of the Tottenville ferry slip. You can see the boat heading to perth Amboy. Its a good size boat, larger that i remember as a kid.

During the early 1960s, I rode the Myrtle Avenue El to the end of the line at Jay Street in Brooklyn. I was a student at the New York Community College of Applied Arts & Sciences located at 300 Pearle Street which was a short walk from the Myrtle Avenue El.

What type of El cars would I have taken on the Myrtle Avenue Line from 1960 to 1963? I remember they were very old cars, like no other in the city at the time.

Just around the corner from the station at Jay Street was Rosey's Bar where for less than a buck you could get a pastrami sandwich on homemade rye with mustard, a whole pickle and a beer. Brooklyn Polytech was alongside the Myrtle Avenue El Station.

I was traveling from Floral Park in Queens at the time, and there were several routes to college to choose from. The most common route was the the Q43 Bus along Hillside Avenue to 179th Street in Jamaica, the IND E or F Trains to West 4th Street in Manhattan and then the D Train to Jay Street, Brooklyn.

When I rode the Myrtle Avenue El, I took the BMT from 169th Street in Jamaica. Another alternative was the Long Island Rail Road from Floral Park to Woodside where I changed to the IRT at Roosevelt Avenue.

 

When I had a long break between classes, I would often walk out onto the Brooklyn Bridge. I saw the last aircraft carrier built in the Brooklyn Navy Yard pass under the bridge on one of my walks.

 

The cars running on the Myrtle Avenue Elevated in the early 1960s were the BMT Q types. They ran on the EL until the EL was closed in 1969. The Q cars began life in the early 1900s as " Gate Cars " used on the Brooklyn Els at that time. In the late 1930's the BMT rebuilt a group of these cars with closed ends and operating doors. The rebuild was to provide for the BMT service on the Flushing and Astoria Els for the 1939 Worlds Fair. They were in use on these Els until 1948-49 when joint IRT /BMT operation of these Els ceased with the BMT getting the Astoria Line and the IRT getting the Flushing Line. The Q cars then went to work on the Third Ave El in MAnhattan until 1956 or so. In the late 1950s they were spruced up and replaced Gate Cars on the Myrtle Ave El in the late 1950s.

 

When the Myrtle El was closed in 1969, Q cars were used in work train service. Some of these cars lasted into the early 2000' s . Today there are examples on display at the Transit Museum in Brooklyn. There is a three car set of gate cars which were rebuilt into the open vestibule Gate configuration from Q cars. These cars may have had one of the longest service life's of an El car in history.

 

 

LIRR Steamer,

Thanks for the info re the Myrtle Avenue El cars.

Bobby

 

a few photos of Q's when they were on the Myrtle Ave Line

 

This one is 1958 when they began the final assignment on the Myrtle Ave El Ben will like the SIRT car on the left serving as a yard office at Fresh pond.

 

 

Heres a train of Q's at Wycoff Ave heading north to Metropolitan ave . There is a transfer point here with the BMT L line. We called it Canarsie Line in those days

 

 

 

Heres a set obviously on a fan trip as they are coming off the Canarsie/Fulton street El at Atlantic Ave coming into Eastern Parkway. This was always a great spot to pose a El Train.

 

 

The photos of the Head House are interesting to compare. You can see how the Central sort of modernized the facade with the modified awning. The lettering Ferry seems to occupy the area where NYC was in the building facade. In the later photo looks like there are some lights to illuminate the railroad names. 

 

In the early photo, a ferry looks to have arrived and pedestrians and cars are coming off the boat. Cars from the Third Ave system and the Green Lines are waiting for passengers.

Here is one from the other side of the river for the NYO&W

 

 

This is the Wallabout terminal in Brooklyn

 

 

 

This one isn't New York but gets honorable mention  Camden - phillie ferry

 

 

Well Ben's post is a little sneaky here. He is referring to the NYO&W  " from the other side of the river" which after having a post of the Weehawken ferry would make us think New Jersey. But this photo of NYO&W is in Brooklyn, Wallabout terminal. This was a Fresh produce market for the New York area operating from some time in the 1800s. Near the later psrt of the 19th century, it was thought to be the largest market of its kind in the country. Carfoating in NY harbor grew rapidly at this time and with an operation such as Wallabout, it becomes clear in regard to the need for a Bridge spanning the east river to connect Manhattan to Brooklyn and this market.Before that bridge was opened, fresh produce moved to Manhattan from here on the water. 

 

The terminal was served by the PRR, West shore, NYC, NYO&W, LV, B&O, CNJ via station car floats, ie those with the covered platforms in the center of the car float. Erie had a freight station in the Basin and the BEDT had a car float operation and brought cars in and out of the area. The Lackawanna also had a float and trackage just to the north of the market. The following arial photo, shows the piers and different RRs assigned to the piers. The market was eliminated about 1940 when the Brooklyn navy yard expanded into the area for wartime ship building. BEDT continued to serve the Navy yard after wallabout market operations ceased.

 

 

I LIKE THIS ONE  161 ST  3RD AVE EL

 

 

 

Not sure of the story with these   This is St George Staten Island early 1960's

 

 

The trolley in the 2nd and 3rd photo is the original prototype PCC car BQT 1000. It was built in 1936 by Clark Car company and is unique in that it was the only PCC ever built by Clark. It ran in Brooklyn for 20 years and was removed from service with the fleet of Brooklyn PCCs in 1956. This car today is at the Trolley Museum in Kingston NY.

 

Bens photos suggest that this car traveled to Kingston via Staten Island . The automobiles in the photos date the photos to the early 1960s, suggesting that the trip from Brooklyn to the trolley museum to a number of years to make.

 

Here is 1000 on the McDonald ave Loop

 

 

Wow Larry   It took a long time for it to get to Kingston  Have a feeling it sat on that siding for awhile.  It was probably floated over from Brooklyn

 

Check out this slide presentation   It has a then and now of different parts of the city  Its a little long but it is cool

 

Fantastic video bluelinec4.  It's really well done and worth watching a couple of times.

Incredible pics......thanks, Ben

 

Peter

This is probably a good place to ask:  does anyone know what color the Bronx EL structures were painted in the 1930s - early 1940s?  I'm soon going to start the El on the layout (hopefully by end of this year) and want it to be correct.  I've seen films made today that take place back then and they depict it as a light to medium gray color.  I know from memory that in the early 70s it was a dark green - and I don't think it got painted very often!  And it's a dark green today, at least in the area I grew up in, north - up by Gun Hill Road. 

When I was a kid and lived in the Bronx  the Jerome line and the Polo Grounds shuttle structures were painted Black. This was in the late 40's. It needed a paint job then, (as they always do). in the early 50's the TA painted the all the els Pea Green. I think that the black color of the IRT elevated structures were all the original paint. 

Goog luck on your project. It is fun building an el structure and watching the trains run on it.

When I was a kid and lived in the Bronx  the Jerome line and the Polo Grounds shuttle structures were painted Black. This was in the late 40's. It needed a paint job then, (as they always do). in the early 50's the TA painted the all the els Pea Green. I think that the black color of the IRT elevated structures were all the original paint. 

Goog luck on your project. It is fun building an el structure and watching the trains run on it.

 

 

If you look to the right on the first photo of PCC car 1000 atSt. George Staten Island you can see the Queensboro Bridge Master Unit trolley. The QB car,an Atlantic City Car and Brooklyn Peter Witt 8367 were all in the yard. I and a few guys went down there from the Bronx and worked on the Peter Witt. Everett White along with some other folks saved the four cars for the Trolley Museum of NY. The 1000 an 8367 went to Coney Island yard from there and were being restored. Mike Hanna, Don Harold and others were responsible for that. On day a new boss took over the shop and stopped the work and threw the cars out. They wound up going to Kingston.

One day some years back In went to the Richmondtown restoration site to remove what was left of a single truck Midland Railway trolley. While there we found pieces of the 8367 car and was gives the parts which is now with the car.

 

Nate

As a kid in the 60's.living in Brooklyn, we used to take a day trip in the Summer that included the Staten Island Ferry, SIRT to Totenville, ferry to Perth Amboy, walk about 6 blocks to a bus to the PA bus terminal and then home. It was less than a buck and killed a day with sightseeing.

Fantastic.

 

I especially liked the 3 slides of Grand central Station and 1 of Grand Central Terminal!  Didn't know we had 2 places named so similarly <G>.

 

I also like the Coentis slip slide.  It's now 55 Water Street, where I worked for 33 years.  

Amazing video!  And soothing music from Hans.  Was wondering what he's bee up to since he left this forum. 

 

Bill I see his name on music in just about every movie released

Great Video Ben. In the opening scene,I believe that is the Cunard Line ship of the line "Aquitania", arriving on a transAtlantic Crossing. She was launched in 1913 and made her maiden voyage on May 30th, 1914. She made more than 450 voyages and went to War twice in her 36 year career at Sea. She was a very popular vessel with passengers being called "ship beautiful" , enjoyed the longest career of a passenger liner prior to the QE 2 which made 40 years. She was the last 4 stacker to cross the Atlantic in regular service, and was withdrawn in 1950. Here are some photos of "Aquitania"

 

 at Sea

 

 

 Advertising

 

 

 arrival in New York

 

 

First class dining room

Nice  I wonder if that New York Central overpass is the one Peter has in the thread about lost in time

Ben....that NYC girder bridge says Mt Vernon/Yonkers/Westchester Co, etc to me......just a gut feeling.

 

 

Peter

 

Here's one that's probably near there:

 

 

 

 

The Woodlawn Flyover........I believe that is the 241st St bridge in the distance.

 

Peter

Hi, Ben.

I believe that view is facing west along Yonkers Avenue at Mount Vernon station.

 

Bob

 

Yes, indeed.....I was right......Mt Vernon!

The bridge design says....Westchester Co.

 

Peter

Ok here is a pair at Park Row, the lower end of the T line. Thinking this shot was right after WW2 and taken from the 3rd Ave El City Hall Spur structure.

 

Gorgeous pics!

Peter

Cool videos

 

This is the elevated yard at 38 st and 5th ave

 

 

Interesting Shot Ben. Was this yard adjacent to the El line . I recall seeing photos in this area where there was a structure but no yard, The building in the backround is interesting. It looks like a structure that maybe was used to coal and water the forneys in the steam days.

Hi LArry

This is a shot of the same area after the tracks were roved   It is looking from the other direction

Hi Ben

 

Thats the location I was thinking of. In the yard , that is a very clever use of double slip switches to increase maneuvarability in the yard.

 

This photo appears to show the Brooklyn station before the great  trainshed at sands street were built. The original line across the Brooklyn Bridge was a Cable railway . It was converted to steam and the steam trains met the El trains and the LIRR at this location. When the trainshed was built and the El station expanded, El service from many of the Brooklyn Lines began operating over the Bridge directly eliminating the physical transfer that we see in the photo.

I agree the tracks end in the photo foreground You can also see that the platform has a gate across it which seems to prevent passengers from accessing the platform area in the foreground, probably part of the physical transfer process. The steam forneys were eliminated when the Brooklyn Els were electrified in the early 1900s.

Time to add a little Brooklyn flavor.

 

Here's a YouTube link that shows pics of the 5th Avenue El.

 

 

Ok since we are in Brooklyn, we can visit the Broadway El near the Williamsburg Bridge; Before the Bridge was built, this elevated route went to the Broadway Ferry at the East River where boats connected to Manhattan at Grand Street, James slip, Houston street and East 23rd street. West of Marcy Ave, there were two stops, the Broadway Ferry terminal and a mid stop at Driggs avenue. This spur was used to connect Brooklyn El Trains and the LIRR Rockaway service to Manhattan via the ferries. In 1908, the El was connected to Manhattan by a new line over the Williamsburg  Bridge and an on grade junction installed with the Broadway El complete with a tower.

 

Here are a couple of views when the connection was first built.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting that the Woodsided Gate cars were operating into Manhattan to the below grade Essex Street Station and shortly later extended to Bowery, Canal Street and Chambers street. The first Steel BMT standards were not on the system until 1916, some 8 years after the Williamsburg Bridge extension opened.

 

There was also a lot of Trolley action at Ground Level at Bridge Plaza as seen in this view

 

 

 

And This one as well

 

 

 

 

The cars in the Foreground are Brooklyn cars operated by what became the B&QT division of the BMT. The cars on the right are New York City trolleys known as the Green Line which eventually became the Fifth Avenue Coach Line . These cars made their last runs over the Bridge in the 1930s while the B&QT service lasted until 1948-49.

 

The Original Broadway El to Broadway Ferry was closed about the time of World war 1. There was a paper transfer at Marcy Avenue from the EL to the trolleys to continue to Broadway Ferry when the El section was closed. It lasted into the Bus era. The B&QT trolleys added a stop on the Bridge at Driggs ave. This service had a 2cent fare as opposed to the 5cent fare to ride the cars beyond the Driggs ave stop. Here is a PCC making a stop at Driggs ave. This was a fan trip as PCCs did not run on any of the routes that crossed the Williamsburg Bridge.

 

l

 

After the trolleys were eliminated, buses replaced the Bridge service and the Driggs ave stop was eliminated. In the late 1950s, there were still trackless trolleys using the trolley wire at Bridge plaza. Check out the work train with the BMT standards providing the power. I wonder what the conversation was about with the folks in the foreground.?

 

 

 

Fan trips provided for unusual equipment to show up at Marcy avenue. Here are the D types coming off the Bridge. D types were at home on the southern Division and were not assigned to the Broadway El service. The Broadway Ferry spur is gone for many years in this photo but the tower is still there.

 

 

 

Finally we close with a photo from just a few days ago with R-32s coming off the Bridge in the same spot. and yes the tower is still there , now more than 100 years old but it does look like it has seen  better days and is in need of some repairs.

 

 

That tower is still there as well as a number of others along the J and M lines   They haven't been used in years since they went to Master Towers  East New York master handles most of the line.

 

You can still see the remnants of the ferry line next to the tower just after Marcy ave

So still on the Broadway line we see in this photo the on grade junction of the Broadway line and the long gone Lexington Ave El. Yes there was a Lexington Ave El in Brooklyn . It was Brooklyn's first Elevated line and dated to 1885. Its route took it from the Fulton Ferry in Brooklyn, way out to Cypress Hills. Parts of today's Broadway Jamaica El were originally part of the Lexington Ave line when constructed. The Broadway line had several on grade junctions ie at Marcy Ave, Myrtle Ave, Gates ave, Manhattan Junction and Chestnut street . Myrtle ave connection still exists today. At Gates Ave, there was a tower that controlled the junction . It spanned the express track on the Broadway line. Only the east and west local tracks connected with the Lexington ave el. Gate cars were the normal vehicles on the Lexington Ave line. None of the lightweight BMT experimentals ventured on this line. The Lexington Ave El line was discontinued in 1950. A section in downtown Brooklyn continued to operate on the Myrtle Ave El until 1969 and the piece of the line that ran from Gates Avenue east to Cypress hills has been upgraded and still is used today on the Broadway Jamaica service.

 

 

So taking a little trip on the Lexington Ave line back around 1950, here is what we might experience. In Downtown Brooklyn, trains terminated at the Bridge and jay Street station along with the Myrtle ave Line trains. There was a paper transfer available for detraining passengers to enter the IND A and D lines at Jay Street .

 

The Northbound Lexington would leave Bridge and Jay street station on the Myrtle ave line and head up a few stops to Grand Ave station on the Myrtle ave line. Trains turned off the Myrtle Ave line, just south of the station and headed east towards the Broadway El along Grand Ave and then onto Lexington ave. The junction at Grand Ave was on grade with a tower. There was an interesting station arrangement on the Lexington Ave El at Grand Ave. Trains heading out to  East new York did not stop at Grand ave as inbound trains did. There was no outbound platform but only a platform for inbound trains which connected to platforms of the Grand Ave station on the Myrtle ave El. I think the theory was that an inbound passenger might want to be able to change here to go North on the Myrtle Ave El. Outbound passengers would take the appropriate train from Bridge and Jay street so therefore no need to stop at Grand Ave on the Lexingon ave line. Heres a photo of the Grand Ave station on the Lexington line. We have a three car gate car train. Note the third rail did not not have covers . Watch your step!!

 

 

 

Continuing toward east New York, the El veered off Grand Avenue onto Lexington ave via an "S" Curve on the El, not quite as dramatic as the curve on the 3rd ave Manhattan line at Coenties slip. Here is view from Street Level and also an aerial view which shows the line. The Lexington Ave El was a 2 track  line over this stretch.

 

 

 

 

 

The line had signals as well, pretty modern for the time i suppose.

great shots larry   is that the Rheingold brewery in the background

Hi Ben

 

Rheingold was in Bushwick. This shot is about where Bedford Stuyvesant meets Clinton Hill and is South of Bushwick. So sorry to say not Rheingold Brewery. There was a lot of manufacturing in this area . Also Pratt Institute is down in that area.

So continuing our journey, the next stop on the Lexington Ave El was Greene ave. The station had platforms for both directions ad we have two views.

 

In the first image, we have a Lexington Ave Train heading outbound toward Broadway in Brooklyn. It is bound for Eastern Parkway which was the terminus in the east in the later days of the Els existence.

 

 

 

The second image shows an inbound train heading for Bridge and Jay street in Downtown Brooklyn. The destination sign on the trailing gate car is interesting as it shows Grant Ave which was a stop on the Fulton street El . I am wondering if there was some sort of service that operated over the Fulton street El into Broadway Junction, on the Broadway El and down the Lexington Ave El to downtown Brooklyn in those days.

 

 

 

I'll see you at the next stop.

Great thread...really enjoying all the info and old photos... thanks to all the contributors, and of course the host: OGR.

Ok so lets continue our trip. The next station up the line was Franklin ave. In this view, we have an outbound train coming into Franklin Ave. Its summertime and there are two convertible cars in the consist. Also the end door is open to move air in the car.This train is heading to Eastern Parkway on the Jamaica El. In the distance you can see the Williamsburg Bank building which is at Flatbush ave and Atlantic Ave in downtown Brooklyn.

 

 

 

Again we are at Franklin ave and we have an outbound train heading towards the Jamaica El . This time the photo is the away shot as the train is leaving Franklin ave. Its also a cooler time of the year. No open doors and convertible sides all buttoned up.

 

 

 

We have a route map that shows the unique section of this elevated line which follows. It paralleled the Myrtle ave El but a few blocks east. This is a pre War map as the Fulton Street Elevated, The Fifth Ave Elevated and the Broadway Ferry spur are all shown on this map

 

 

 

I also came across a BMT service listing which explains the Grant ave signage on a train in and earlier photo. When the BMT eliminated the Fulton Street El in 1940, it did substitute a rush hour service beginning at Grant ave on the Fulton Street line which remained, continuing through Broadway Junction, Eastern Parkway and down  the Lexington ave El to Park Row initially, later Bridge and Jay. There was also Rush hour Lexington ave trains which ran to 111th street in Richmond Hill on the jamaica el. At normal hours, Lexington ave Trains ran only as far as Eastern Parkway. 

Wonderful pics and informative posts. This is one of my all-time favorite threads!

I think its great that lots of folks have chimed in on this thread . There is a lot of history being shared. It makes me happy knowing so many are enjoying it. Thanks to all the contributors and thanks to all those who are enjoying the thread.

LIRR STEAMER, and Ben. I also enjoy your old NY posts. I like the subways, not familiar much with Brooklyn, grew up in Corona Queens. Sunday I took the museum ride to Rockaway, then left the group to ride the J line. Was always interested in the Broadway Junction stop and the maze of tracks and curves. Rode that to Jamaica Center and back to Manhattan. Enjoyed that more than the museum trip! Keep up the good work, Vic.

Great video Bob  Amazing how many things change but how many things stay the same.  Fraunces Tavern looks better now   The list of department stores amazes me how many are gone

Broadway junction is the center of the universe when it comes to the NY city subway.  The el is a maze of lattice and routes present and past     There is still a small piece of the Fulton El that is still used for making moves into East NY Yard there.

 

 

Eastern parkway Broadway junction was indeed the center of the universe for the BMT. Almost the entire BMT Eastern Division operations went through there with the exception of Myrtle ave service. In the 1940s and 50s, you had Broadway trains operationg to Jamaica 168th street, Broadway locals between canal st and Atlantic Ave., the Canarsie line to eighth ave in Manhattan, the Lexington ave els to eastern parkway, grant ave on the Fulton street line and 111th street on the Jamaica line, Fulton st El trains to eastern parkway from Lefferts Blvd on Saturday and Sunday and during the week they ran to Rockaway ave. There was also Fulton Street El Rush Hour service through the junction to Eighth ave Manhattan via the Canarsie line, using the Multis.  Ben's Photos shows some of the interesting equipment of the BMT which operated here including the C types (first BMT articulateds) and the Multis, the production car that evolved from BMT experimentals in the 1930s. It was something to see in those days with all those different trains coming through the complex and also going into and out of the East New York yard and shops. If that were not enough there also were hordes of BMT trolleys below on the streets under this complex. It was a transit paradise.

 

One more point, We cant see it here in these photos but it is worth mentioning that below ground nearly under this complex passed the LIRR's bay Ridge Branch . At the South end of the complex under Atlantic ave was the LIRR Flatbush Ave line which passed over the Bay Ridge Branch crossing at 90 degree angles , but crossing under the BMT elevated complex at the South End. 

So we can cover the rest of the Lexington Ave Line tonight. Nostrand ave is the next stop. Its summer time and the morning rush hour. The train in the photo was making a run in from Grant Ave on the Fulton Street El. It has three convertible sides cars with the sash removed for summer operation

 

 

 

Next is Tompkins Ave . Again Warm weather operations. In this photo, we have a train heading out toward the jamaica El while a second train heading downtown to Brooklyn is arriving at the station. I think the advertising is an interesting sign of the times as well in these photos. Also notice the gent on the inbound platform. He has a hat on. Full dress even in the warm months.

 

 

 

Next stops were Summner Ave and then Reid Ave. Reid ave was the first stop after the Lexington ave El divereged from the Broadway El . In the photo, you see an inbound train and in the background you can see the tower on the Broadway line that straddled the center track and controlled the junction.

 

 

 

 

 

These photos are very representative of what it was like to grow up in Brooklyn in the 1940s and 50s . It was a great place and a lot of fun. I hope you liked the trip on the Lexington Ave El (1885-1950)

This thread is absolutely amazing!

 

Richie

Here's a pic of the "New York - New Jersey Tunnel." One of two pairs of Hudson & Manhattan Railroad tunnels under the Hudson River sometime around their opening in 1908.

 

 

 

--Greg

The lower Manhattan terminal for the line was Hudson Terminal at Cortlandt street. Heres an H&M Train in the station. This train I think is a PRR train that operated into Hudson Terminal with direct transfer at Newark station from PRR commuter trains.

 

 

 

Passengers on the Mezzanine at Hudson Terminal

 

 

 

We have an H&M Train at Journal Square in Jersey City. The headquarters of the Jersey Journal , a large New Jersey Newspaper was located here

 

 

The Hudson and Manhattan Tubes has a long history  They were actually operating before the IRT.  After construction of the Holland and Lincoln tunnels they went into bankruptcy.  They had a huge building in Manhattan called Hudson terminal.  Part of the deal to get them out of bankruptcy was for the Port Authourity to by HM so they can knock down Hudson terminal to make way for the World Trade Center in the 1960's.  The Pennsylvania RR also operated them for awhile before they went bankrupt too.

 

Hudson Terminal

 

 

Construction of the World Trade Center

 

 

Pensylvania Railroad Tubes  They shared the right of way by Journal square  Notice third rail and catenary.  The Pennsy Keystone and it covered up shortly after the PA took over

 

 

I love this one   These guys are playing Baci using the rails of the SBK as boundaries  That's the Culver shuttle above

 

 

The only known photograph of Beach's Pneumatic Transit circa 1873 when it operated as an experiment and novelty ride under Broadway. 

 

And later in 1912 when the tube was unearthed by subway transit construction.  Shown is the end of the cylindrical car and above can be seen what appears to be the vent located at city hall park.

 

Bruce

@blueline-

Interesting when you said the H and M tubes were operating before the IRT. I know that the H and M tubes were operating in 1908 before the IRT tunnel under the east river opened up, but as far as I know the IRT itself was running by 1904, albeit on Manhattan only. Did you mean under the river? 

 

The picture of the Beach is neat, I have never seen a picture of it, the only things I ever saw were drawings from magazines of the era like Harper's. 

As a young boy growing up during the 50's and 60's in Brooklyn Heights and in Bensonhurst Brooklyn, I remember much of the great Railroading history of NYC. Bush Terminal, The Waterfront RR barge piers, The Culver Shuttle, The High Line, the railroad in the street that ran on McDonald Ave below the D train and the large number of factories and freight operations that surrounded the waterfronts of the five Boroughs. I also vaguely recall that there were also some electric bus routes (Church Ave rings a bell) and a two car train that connected the Staten Island Ferry to South Beach. I must have been 6 or 7 at that time so my recollections are dim.  NYC had thriving railroad freight operations back then but sadly, all of it has disappeared. The only railroads left are some subways and bus routes . This was even before our industrial base was moved to Communist China.

Dennis

It was the F train above McDonald Ave  Staten Island has seen the re-emergence of freight operations over the Arthur Kill Lift bridge.  New York and Atlantic is operating the old Bay Ridge yard and has started using the car floats there.  They run a train a day and float cars to Greenville and connect with NYNJ rail.

 

Here is a pic of the High line in the background

 

If I'm not mistaken, there was a rider on horseback preceding the steam dummy. The riders were called "West Side Cowboys."

  

Yep, or 10th avenue cowboys..what is amazing is the practice lived on until the 1940's (I think by the end of WWII it had ended). Ironic in that the high line was built to replace the street level trains, and that in the end it never really was used that heavily, in that trucks starting in the 1930's took away its need for existence. 

In 1874 New York City Park Avenue Harlem when it was a Swamp, before the Stone Viaduct was built:




1880 Old Grand Central NYC before it was torn down to make the new one:





NYC 1880, Cows graze next to Grand Central:



Today:

 

New York City 1923

Street cars are of the Third Avenue Railway System. Location is unknown, but I suspect it may be Delancy Street at the foot of the bridge?

Central Park 1930

Coney Island 1940

Pyramid of Captured German Helmets @ Grand Central Station

Bobby

 

The first photo is indeed at the foot of the Williamsburg Bridge. It was probably taken from the foot of the Pedestrian walkway. The cars coming off the Bridge were from the New York Railway or better known as The Green Line. These cars traveled over the Williamsburg Bridge on the North Side roadways to Washington Plaza in Brooklyn. The BQE ramp to the Bridge occupies much of the area that was used for turning these cars in Brooklyn. There were several routes going both uptown and downtown in Manhattan . Service lasted until the early 1930s when operations ceased. The Green Line was the forerunner of  The Fifth Ave Coach Co.

 

The cars in the foreground were third ave company TARS, and were for a north south line in front of the Bridge. If you look into the distance in the photo, you can make out the Second Avenue Elevated. on Allen Street. Below the area in the photo was the Terminal for the B&QT trolleys that ran to Brooklyn on the South Side of the Bridge. At this time, there was only one roadway 2 lanes on either side of the Bridge for vehicles including both motorized and horse drawn. The trolloeys and the BMT Broadway line ran on dedicated right of ways over the bridge. Looks like they had quite a traffic problem when the photo was taken.

 

I like the Coney Island Photo as well . In 1940. most of the folks in the photo came to Coney Island via the Culver Line, The SeaBeach Line, The west End Line and the Brighton Line, all on the BMT operating in and out of the Stillwell Avenue Depot.

This has been one of the best threads we have ever had on the forum....so many great pictures and information.  Thanks Ben for getting this started and thanks to ALL of you that have contributed here!

 

Alan

I like this one  Very hard to tell where it is

 

 

 

This is Chambers street in better days   This was one of the busiest stations in the BMT when the Nassau Loop was used

 

HI Ben

 

The picture where the Standard is bending left under another EL is at the West 8th Street Station. Culver line coming under the Brighton local. 

 

Steve M

Yes it is Steve   The tracks going to the right are long gone there  The Brighton was able to go to either level of W8   How have you been buddy?

Ben

 

Chambers treet on the BMT was a busy place before the Nassau loop as well. When the Broadway line was extended over the Williamsburg Bridge to Chamber street toward the turn of the century, the BMT and LIRR operated joint service to the Rockaways over the line. The Center platform at Chambers Treet was used for LIRR trains I believe. This service lasted until about 1917. LIRR MP-41s or Gibbs cars were used, They were similar to the loV's . When the loop opebed in the 1930s, in addition to the Broadway Brooklyn BMT service and the Myrtle Chambers service, there were the Culver local, the West End Short Line and a Franklin avenue express that came into this station as well. It was a popular route to Coney Island from the Williamsburh area although changing to the Seabeach or Brighton or West End regular services at Canal street was quicker.

 

The West eighth street photo shows the tracks coming from the Brighton line Ocean parkway. I dont remember any Brighton trains coming on the lower level in the early 1950s when the Culver was a BMT line. I think they all used the upper level tracks. West Eight street was also near the location of the Coney Island Trolley terminal PCCs ran in there from the Mcdonald Ave line and the Coney Island Ave line. WE could get to Coney Island from Williamsburg via the 61 Crosstown car, usually the 6000 series single enders , change at Vanderbilt ave for the Vanderbilt avenue car, usually a PCC to Park Circle and then to one of the Coney Isalnd routes to the West Eight Street terminal, both routes worked by PCC's.  

Here are a couple of photos of MP-41s, LIRR's first electric cars. They were around until the early 1950s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The LIRR BRT connection was referred to as the Chestnut st connection. It was in East New York and you can still see  a few girders in the trackway on the BMT Jamaica line near Norwood Ave where this connection once came in. Here is the connection at the BRT

 

 

 

 

and here is the other end at the LIRR

 

 

As a kid growing up in Brooklyn during the 1950's I didn't get to ride the trains very much and missed most of what was posted on this thread. The only vestige of NY transit that I remember was the old Franklin Avenue (Culver) shuttle that branched off of the D train. I did ride that once and went for a walk through the old Pennsylvania station once, but that's about it.

Getting back to the fantastic info posted here; it just goes to show how radically NYC changed from a time when the railroads and the Ferries ran just about everywhere in the city. New York City was a mighty manufacturing center back then. 

I’ve been following this  picture perfect thread since its onslaught.  Thanks for all the incredible pictures and videos….Everyone!

Here are a few I found in my closet. I wish I knew something about them…but I don’t.
Hope they follow the theme of this thread?








K.C.

Try using the old new york page on facebook, you can see all the pictures all at once. Amazing what New York look like before.

 

rat

KC 

 

thanks for posting those great Photos. These images are of the Brooklyn Bath and West End Railroad. They date from about 1885 or so. 

 

At the time of the Civil war, the city of Brooklyn's developed area  did not go much further south than the area around Greenwood Cemetery which is just north of todays 36th street yard on the former BMT. The area we call Coney Island  was starting to become a resort area . The West End's riginal predecessor road was the Brooklyn, Bath and Coney Island railroad which was chartered in 1862 . It was the first Steam railroad in Brooklyn at the time. These railroads were associated business wise with hotels which were being built in Coney Island. This one also had commutation service. Its original Northern Terminal was at 26th street and Fifth ave. On the 1880s the line reached Coney Island and and was also extended to the 39th street ferry where a boat connection to downtown Manhattan was available. 

 

THe terminal we see in KC's first photo, I Think may be the original West End Terminal which was located at 36th street just west of the present 36th street yard. The rail car in Photo 2 was new in the 1880s and they had convertible sides so they were open air in the summer time. Tank Engines were the motive power of the day at that time as we see in the photo 3.

 

In searching a bit this morning, the following info was found which is interesting to the history of this company.

 

This photo is an image depicting the Resort Hotels. It refers to the Brooklyn Bath and Coney Island Railroad terminal and dates to 1879. The Sea Beach Hotel and railroad terminal is also shown.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a photo of the terminal in Coney Island. It was to become the forerunner of the great Stillwell Ave terminal of the BMT that many of us remember from the 1950s.

 

 

 

 

I have added a map of the BRT system in Brooklyn dating to 1913 and it shows the routes of the consolidated Brooklyn steam railroads and elevateds . By now steam is gone from the BRT and Brooklyn itself with the exception of Steam locomotives used by the Long Island Railroad on the Bay Ridge Branch and its Manhattan Beach Line. This is the extent of the system at the time of the Dual Contracts which was the first great expansion of rapid transit in the city of New York in Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan and the Bronx. 

 

 

In the BRT route map shown in the post just above, perhaps you may have noticed a bit of a BRT route to Canarsie shown in the upper right corner . So lets talk about the Canarsie line or todays "L" route

 

Its origins trace to the Brooklyn and Rockaway Beach Railroad, chartered December 24, 1863 and opened October 21, 1865, from the Long Island Rail Road in East New York to a pier at Canarsie Landing, very close to the current junction of Rockaway Parkway and the Belt Parkway, where ferries continued on to Rockaway.  The Canarsie Railroad was chartered on May 8, 1906 as a BRT subsidiary. The line was partly elevated, and electrified with third rail on the elevated part and trolley wire on the rest, south of New Lots Avenue. The Long Island Rail Road, which had used the line north of New Lots to access their Bay Ridge Branch. The East New York terminus was extended several blocks along a section of line formerly used for "East New York Loop" service to the Fulton Street Elevated and the Broadway Elevated, at a point known as Manhattan Junction or later,Broadway Junction.

 

Service, first run on July 28, 1906, ran from Canarsie Landing to the Broadway Ferry at the foot of Broadway in Williamsburg, at the East River. Most of this route is in use today as the Jamaica Line. The route was later extended over the bridge and along the BMT Nassau Street Line to Canal Street and then Chambers Street.

 

The Dual Contracts subway expansion scheme around World War I saw the rebuilding of the complex train junction at Manhattan Junction into an even more complex flyover junction now known as Broadway Junction. The expansion extended south to the point at which the Canarsie and Fulton Street Elevateds diverged, including a six-track, three-platform station at Atlantic Avenue. The complex was rebuilt under traffic and opened in stages, reaching completion in 1919.

 

At the same time, the BRT moved to eliminate remaining operations that required elevated trains to operate under overhead wire. In most cases this meant using third rail on fully grade-separated lines. When third rail was extended on the Canarsie Line it was decided to extend this power mode only as far as the important station at Rockaway Parkway and Glenwood Road. Beyond that point, frequent grade crossings made third rail impractical. This portion of the line was converted to the Canarsie Shuttle using elevated cars in 1917 and converted to trolley cars in 1920.

 

One grade crossing was retained at East 105th Street despite the third rail, and was the last public rapid transit grade crossing in New York City. The crossing was removed in 1973.

 

There are many great photos of trains on the complex trackage at East New York where the Jamaica Broadway,Fulton Street and Canarsie lines mixed it up to allow service from the outlying branches to reach downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan by several routes . Adding to the complexity was trackage to access the East New York Shops and yards . The present subway extension from 8th avenue and 14th street through Brooklyns Williamsburg and Bushwick sections reaching the Elevated portion of the line in East New York was completed during the 1920's. Todays scene at these locations is much simpler as only the L service and Jamaica el service remain.

 

Here are a few photos that show the outer reaches of the Cabarsie line in the glory days. We have atrain set of Multi's , a 5 car articulated train set built in the 1930s and intended for use by the BMT on its older El lines in Brooklyn . New York City had other ideas about Elevated rail lines and the Multis saw service on the Canarsie line as an alternate. This set is arriving on Grade from Manhattan at the Canarsie Rockaway Parkway depot. You can see the Bluebirds in the Canarsie Yard.  

 

 

 

  A set of Multis at the Wiiden Platform and in the yard we have the R-11s second Ave Prototype cars along with the Bluebirds. The oddballs were at home on the Canarsie line. 

 

 

 BMT standards worked this line as well and were original equipment when the subway extension to Manhattan was completed in the 1920s. They were on this line into the 1960s as I recall. This set is getting to make the run to Broadway Junction and on to Manhattan

 

 

 

 Here we have a set of Multis getting set to depart for Manhattan . Its the mid 30's and the Multis are almost new here. We have some travelers in their Sunday finest.

 

 

 

 

The last Photo is interesting. At the 42nd street station Concourse in Manhattan which connects the BMT 4th ave Broadway subway with the IRT 7thavenue line and the IRT Flushung line, there was a sign " to Canarsie" stuck up on one of the steel girders exposed in the concourse that directed travelers to Canarsie. The Canarsie line did not serve this station so the intent of the sign is curious. I wonder if its still there?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LIRR Steamer,

Thanks for the information on the pictures.. Very enjoyable Read, and some great pictures..too!

K.C.

This was on facebook: 110th St 1896

Don

Rails photo shows the Ninth ave el along 110th street in Manhattan where the line turned from Ninth ave to go east to Eighth ave in Manhattan. The Ninth ave El was the original elevated line in Manhattan first operating in 1868. Over the years, the line was extended from South Ferry north through Manhattan to 155th street at the Polo Grounds. It continued accross the Harlem river at this point serving the New York Centrals Sedgewick ave station on the Putnam Division. Traveling eastward, the Ninth ave el joined the Woodlawn Jerome line and trains eventually ran all the way to Woodlawn Rd in the Bronx. The Nonth ave el was closed in June of 1940 . All of it was removed at that time save for the Section that ran from 155th st accross the Harlem River to The Woodlawn Jerome line. This piece was known as the Polo Grounds Shuttle and remained in service until 1958. The location in the photo was colloquially referred to as "Suicide curve."  The station and trackways were at a height of 100 feet and it was reputed to be a favorite spot for jumpers, therefore the Suicide Curve moniker.

 

One more "under construction" shot of the HG.

 

Piers for the approach through what would one day become my old Astoria neighborhood:

 

 

Jim

How about some Grand Central construction pics