Old New York

You must have faced the courtyard.  When I first arrived, in Fall 1950, we were in the locker room.  I do remember in second year, being in a classroom in front, upper floor at end of building nearest the gym being built, from whence one could see the el.  I transferred out in June 1952

RJR posted:

Joe F, when were you a Mounty?

Hello RJR

I was a Mountie at Mt St Mikes in Sept. 1955 thru June 1959 -- when I left for a school on Park Avenue a few blocks from my Manhattan home.

When I first went to the Mount I took the Lex. Ave. Subway in Manhattan north and changed to the Bronx 3rd Ave EL at E.149th St Station...and took the Bronx portion of the 3rd Ave "EL" to its Gun Hill Road Station terminal,  where I went to the upper level to again ride the same route-line (White Plains Road EL) to Nereid Ave. Station to get to the Mount.  I did this because the 3rd Ave EL had just a few months before (on Thursday, May 12, 1955, 7PM.)  had permanently stopped all service below E. 149th Street, Bronx, south  to Chatham Square Terminal.  The 3rd AV EL was still standing abandoned in Manhattan by Sept. 1955 but was being dismantled,  including the EL station on my Block. 

 

Of Note!!:  The section of lower Bronx EL from Harlem River edge and to and from E.133rd St to E.149th St (The "Alley" double-decked EL from 133rd to 143 St Stations) was kept active but NON revenue -- as then only physical way to turn back trains south of the E.149th St "terminal" station until the track X-overs switches and signals at the north end of the then "new" Terminal -- could be installed and put in service. That was done by early 1957.

But I could still ride my old friends of 6-car trains of wooden EL cars  ( MUDC's and those Q Types) on the remaining Bronx portion from Friday May 13th, 1955 until the wood cars were replaced completely by Dec. 16, 1956,  by 6 car trains of steel ex-subway Low-V Steinway Cars.    Other times I just took the Lex Ave - White Plains Rd trains direct to the Mount - and back.

YOU were up in the Mount around 1950 to 1952 I think you stated --   therefore you know the neighborhood "look and feel and character"  that I described from my 1955-1958 period up there.  The sort of country-suburban aura of the area. Very quiet, safe, crime free and civilized way back 60 years ago !! I use to hang out at the IRT EL E. 239th St nyards by the gate at the north end of Barnes Avenue, and chat with the friendly gate man.  He even let me inside a few feet past the gate to see and take pictures of the wooden El trains stored there at their track bumpers.  Sometimes I went to the north end of the adjacent Byron Ave to see the trains stored alongside the shop building.  I had a school pal who lived at 4400 Wickham Ave whose apt. house I visited  also faced Barnes Ave. 

I was at the Mount  when the covered "bridge" being built between the Main Head-house building and the Gym-Cafeteria.  I saw the construction daily  from start to end -- I think it was started in 1957

Another pal, schoolmate, was Robert Mayer,  whose dad owned Mayers' Parkway Restaurant on E.233st down the hill west from the El station there at White Plains Rd.  Had many after-school snacks and "late lunches" there with Bob.  That famous restaurant and catering house finally closed down I think in the very late 1990's, perhaps into 2000 or so. A Multi level garage building is now on the site.

I have visited the mount countless times between the 1960's to just a few years ago !  Here are my 3 yearbooks from the Mount -- all in mint condition !

regards ! - Joe F

 

1956 Mt St Michael Yearbook1957 Mt St Michael Yearbook1958 Mt St Michael Yearbook

Joe F

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Joe, I lived in NJ and boarded.  Early on Monday morning, Mom would drive me to the bus stop on the NJ side of the GW.  I bus across, grab the SB A train (they were new then, with fluorescent lights) to 145th St, switch to the NB D to 205th ST, and then the 16 Webster Ave bus to the Mount.  Friday afternoon I had a choice: D to 59th and A to PA Bus terminal, or walk to 241st, and take the IRT down a few stations to catch the 3rd Ave El to 42nd St or go straight down to 42nd (don't remember if there was a transfer involved.)

In 1952 I switched to St. Peters Prep in JC, day-hopping.  The 44 bus crossed the Erie Station 4-track lead, and steam still hauled some commuter trains.  Down by the Prep, PRR still ran Exchange Place Station, with MU trains and one daily Jersey Coast train hauled by Baldwin Sharks.

I suspect the MSM area has changed drastically.

Speaking of that area, during WWII, Mom & I would take subway to visit Grandma who lived a few blocks from the Dyer Ave shuttle station.  2-car trains, open platform.

Hello RJR -----------

You, I and Lionel 1933 here could share some great memories of our riding those lines now gone - riding the great 3rd Ave EL-  or significantly changed  per the Dyre Ave. (ex-NYW&B RR) Line shuttle with wood IRT EL Gate cars which I rode a few times there in 1953,  and with IRT Hi-V subway cars from mid 1953 thru 1957 -- and the now very vintage -back then visual way the city looked in those times !!  The transit vehicles we rode -- all now long gone (except for a scant few cars in Museums or the NYC Transit Museum --- but riding them in daily revenue back then in the city the way it was,  are now all but distant memories.  Memories which spurred me to create the earlier HO EL layout and later O-Scale EL & Trolley layout and  vintage real estate and street scenes along the "EL" on the layout.

Wow, your mother sent you from NEW JERSEY to the Mount at the far east end of the Bronx !!! -- WHAT a long trip !!  And time consuming !  Obviously to board (live at the school,  a boarder) there for the week and come home weekends and holidays....and summers (?)   I boarded there part time in 1955-56.  Riding all that transit back then for you as very young back then must have been almost magical, enchanting  and exciting !  

If you have not seen my layout webpage, here is the Link to the Main PAGE and Albums PAGE. Some of the modeled scenes and rolling stock will be familiar to your memories of the prototypes.  Also check out the FAVORITES section photos - videos on my site

MAIN PAGE ----    https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/

ALBUMS PAGE ----   https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/albums

BELOW is an aerial MAP and aerial PHOTO of the Mount and the landmarks nearby circled in red

regards - Joe F

Mt St Michael Map and landmarks nearbyMt St Michael aerial & landmarks

 

 

Joe F

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I happened to stumble upon a link for the New York Public Library that has pictures of old piers on the Hudson/North River and the East River. Being a Pennsy fan, I knew Piers 49-50 (North/Hudson River) were used by the Pennsy and just learned so were Piers 77-78.

This post is so large now, not sure if this was ever posted before, apologies if it is a duplicate post. 

https://digitalcollections.nyp...tan#/?tab=navigation 

Tom 

There is a place in Wesley Chapel NC that is known as Brooklyn Pizza. The floor is a map of the NYC Subway system. Its a little outdated since it opened for the 2nd ave line was in service. So you get a sign for the table after placing your order. Here is a sign we had. Enjoy

015dfe78149d22e9a61b8bf8584fa9f2ae4db0fab3 

LIRR Steamer

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Nov 22, 1967 was a historic day in New York History as it was the final day of the original Trans Hudson Ferry service which began some three hundred years earlier and became an extension of railroad service connecting New York City. On that day , at 5:45 , Elmira whistled off and departed eastbound from Hoboken to Barclay Street in Manhattan. At the same time, Lackawanna left Barclay street westbound for Hoboken. Lackawanna was an original Delaware Lackawanna and Western boat , the oldest in the fleet having been built in 1895. At 6pm that day , Elmira whistled off at Barclay street for the last time and proceeded westbound for Hoboken. It was the last run of a railroad ferry on the Hudson. 

After world war two, Railroad ferries on the Hudson were operated by the Central Railroad of New Jersey, The Pennsylvania railroad, the Erie Railroad, the New York Central Railroad and the Lackawanna railroad. The PRR was the first to end operations to exchange place from Cortland st about 1950. New York Central operated the longest Hudson Route from Cortland st to Weehawken  being more than 20 minutes at sea so to speak. New York Central also operated a 42nd st run to Weehawken perhaps better known than the Cortland st run. They ended in the late 1950s. The Erie service was consolidated with the Lackawanna in the late 1950s and eventually merged  as the Erie-Lackawanna in 1960. The Jersey Central service went on into the mid 1960s . Thus the Erie Lackawanna operation was the last making the last run 50 years ago . Ferry service has been revitalized on the Hudson and East Rivers in recent years but is a different sort of operation than in the era of the railroad ferries. 

NYC Niagara on the cortlandt st run

Here is the New York Centrals Niagara making the Cortlandt street run. 

 

Barclay St terminal

a modern photo of the Lackawanna's New York City Barclay street terminal. This photo was made before the Erie Lackawana merger but consolidation of ferry services already in place with Erie boats using Lackawanna terminals. 

christopher st 

Lackawann also had terminal a little further up the river at Christopher street. It lasted into the postwar period . This is a turn of the century photo. Lackawanna boats also once served a terminal at 23rd street. I believe those services were gone before World war 2. 

hoboken

and across river was the Lackawanna Hoboken terminal. You can see the ERIE sigh added above Lackawanna and the stacks have the EL herald on them on the boats. The terminal still exists and is used for NJDOT;s trains and PATH trains terminating in Hoboken. .Believe the modern service on the river may operate from here as well. 

Pocono

The Lackawanna's POCONO on the crossing between Hoboken and Barclay Street

Binghamton

The BINGHAMTON on the crossing. Doesn't look too crowded in this photo. BINGHAMTON became a restaurant on the Hudson after its ferry days for some time. It had been closed in recent years looking for a pan to save her. Hurricane Sandy did her in in 2012. 

lackawanna leaving Barclay st

Lackawanna getting ready to depart on an evening rush hour trip. Who remembers the New York Telegram newspaper? This is what it looked like when she made her last run from Barclay street in 1967.

on board he lackawanna

on board the LACKAWANNA . It had a grand feeling to be on board in the cabin. 

ELMIRA made the last crossing in 1967. She was tied up in Edison NJ for some time . She was visible from the Northbound New Jersey Turnpike. She also fell on hard times and became derelict itself.  

 

LIRR Steamer

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I have fond memories of my father and I riding the Delay, Linger and Wait (D.L& W)  to Hoboken and going to the train show that was held in the upper room(s) of the terminal. We would take a trip across on the ferry to NYC and eat lunch and walk about downtown. We would then buy a bunch of flowers from a street vendor to take home to my Mom. We would then take the ferry back to Hoboken and board the D.L& W for the ride home. That was over 60 years ago ... I miss my Dad and the good times we had together because we liked our trains, real and toy!

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Great Story . My dad was the same. I think he was somewhat of a railfan , wanting to ride the different trains and related services. As a youngster, I seem to remember that we did ride different lines and routes just before they were abandoned or closed. We rode all those Hudson river ferries before they were gone as well as the 3rd ave el in Manhattan, the North sore and South beach SIRT in Staten Island and Lexington ave el in Brooklyn before they were gone. 

LIRR Steamer

LIRR Steamer posted:

Great Story . My dad was the same. I think he was somewhat of a railfan , wanting to ride the different trains and related services. As a youngster, I seem to remember that we did ride different lines and routes just before they were abandoned or closed. We rode all those Hudson river ferries before they were gone as well as the 3rd ave el in Manhattan, the North sore and South beach SIRT in Staten Island and Lexington ave el in Brooklyn before they were gone. 

How thankful we can all be for the love and care that our Fathers imparted to us when we were young. 

Here are two of my favorite things  The Erie Lackawanna railroad and an R46 delivery  These were usually floated to Brooklyn's Bush Terminal railway and delivered to SBK

28070649_1756511981047747_6544434429099855531_o

Third ave el

2nd-ave-3

This is the West side of Manhattan  Freight platforms  Believe its 30 st.

30th St circa 1920s

Different view of Queens Plaza  The building to the right looks ezactly the same today  The building with the columns facade is still there but its connected to a much larger and modern Courtyard MArriott building

qplaza

Third ave el construction   Not sure where

SidKaplan1

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bluelinec4 posted:

Here are two of my favorite things  The Erie Lackawanna railroad and an R46 delivery  These were usually floated to Brooklyn's Bush Terminal railway and delivered to SBK

28070649_1756511981047747_6544434429099855531_o

I like looking at all the pics posted here. This one caught my eye. I did not notice the brake wheel cut out so close to the nose of an SD45 before this?

<form action="showPicture.aspx?id=1933268" id="ctl00" method="post" name="ctl00">
EL 3665 and 3671 Eastbound
</form>

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

bluelinec4 posted:
Third ave el

2nd-ave-3

Third ave el construction   Not sure where

SidKaplan1

Hello Ben ---

I just HAVE to (heh !)  correct your captions on these photos ABOVE found on / from your posting -- with copies BELOW of my own same photos.  By the way, the photographer of the 5th (last)  photo on your posting (its the 2nd one seen here ABOVE) is a personal friend of mine, Sid Kaplan, and Sid gave me copies of all of his 3rd Ave EL 8-1955 to 2-1956 ALL DEMOLITION PHOTOS photos for my collection..including the 5th (last one) one on your posting.

The upper top-most (also the 2nd seen on your message) - photo ABOVE here - being a duplicate of the original copy in my collection  - is NOT the THIRD AVENUE EL -!!!

Here BELOW is my similar full (non cropped) copy from my large 2nd Ave EL Photos Collection -

It IS looking north in 1939 from the north end of the Northbound E.34th Street Local station platform ON the SECOND AVENUE EL -- with a Southbound  (of ex-1904 subway cars) Composite 3-car local train passing an uptown local of IRT EL MUDC Cars.  In the distance is seen the twin island platforms of the E.42nd Street Express Station.  The NY Daily News building is the tall one behind the first Composite Car, with the taller Chrysler Building at the far left

N from NB 34St ST, 2 AV L-1939

======================================================================================================

The 5th, last photo on your posting,  IS NOT the "Third Avenue EL  ' Construction ' "  !!

Here BELOW is my original copy of that image, from Sid to me.  Taken in early October  1955,  it IS the DEMOLITION and REMOVAL of the Third Avenue EL !!.   The photo location IS looking south east towards the east side of 3rd Avenue from a rooftop on the west side of the Avenue from the S/W corner of E. 78th Street and 3rd Avenue,  ,with East 77th Street seen at center,  and the Northbound E.76th Street Local Station of the EL partially demolished.  You can also see the solid plate girders of the 1915 added center express track as contrasting to the original as built 1877 Lattice girders of the both local tracks.

SE at E. 78 St to 3AV EL Demol to E.76St STA--10-1955

BELOW is an  additional photo from Sid to me at this same location and early October 1955 date... but closer angled to East 78th Street which is where the lamp post is seen at the SW corner of 3rd & E.78th Street.  And to think I walked those streets back then and saw it all...a lifetime ago !

NW to Demol. 3AV EL at E. 78St-10-1955

BELOW is a street level view from 2011 of the same view as the photo just above this one

SE from E. 78 to E. 77St on 3rd Ave-2011

As of this writing the entire east side of 3rd Avenue from E. 77th Street south to E. 74th Street, remains intact as it was in the above older 1955 photos, is some a bit "modernized" a bit.

Well, that should correct things Ben,  I presume you are enjoying your subway motorman career -- I fear you may be inhaling a bit too much subway ozone fumes, uremic fumes and brake dust, heh -- but otherwise I hope and expect you are OK and doing well !@!

Regards - Joe F

Joe F

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Ben,

The photo of the west side on Manhattan location is incorrect. The Composites never ran in service  on the West Side as they were too heavy. They ran a few light trains around the horn to 155th St. Station on the last day of service on the 9th Ave el to run on the new Polo Grounds Shuttle. Those few cars were transfered at night  The posted photo shown would have to be the 2nd or 3rd Ave. els.

regards , Nate

 

 

Engineer-Joe posted:
bluelinec4 posted:

Here are two of my favorite things  The Erie Lackawanna railroad and an R46 delivery  These were usually floated to Brooklyn's Bush Terminal railway and delivered to SBK

28070649_1756511981047747_6544434429099855531_o

I like looking at all the pics posted here. This one caught my eye. I did not notice the brake wheel cut out so close to the nose of an SD45 before this?

<form action="showPicture.aspx?id=1933268" id="ctl00" method="post" name="ctl00">
EL 3665 and 3671 Eastbound
</form>

Thats not an Sd45   Its an SDP45   Longer than standard SD45.  Bigger fuel tank.  EL never had intention of using them in passenger service so they were delivered without steam generators.  They wanted the bigger fuel tanks so they didnt have to refuel their fast piggyback service to and from Chicago

Hello Nate !

You mis-read in error, Ben's posting and photos with captions.  Ben's Captions are are TOP of each photo they describe.

The reference you mention about Ben's caption.... "This is the West Side of Manhattan....."  in that caption Ben refers ONLY to the NY Central Freight station tracks and platforms in the PHOTO DIRECTLY UNDER THAT CAPTION

That caption DOES NOT refer to the photo ABOVE it with the EL and the Composite Cars in it -  that caption which I already corrected to Ben as NOT being the THIRD Avenue EL --in my just previous posting made a short time before your own  posting to Ben  !

Go BACK to Ben's original posting with its 5 photos (and the Lackawanna Loco pulling the R-46 cars) and carefully scroll down and view the photos AND captions -- you will see your "West Side"  error !  ALSO note my posting to Ben giving CORRECTIONS info on that and another photo

Regards - Joe F

Joe F

eddie g posted:

In 1950 it was changed to NY Telegram & Sun. The Telegram bought out the Sun. I know because my father was advertising director of the Sun. "Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus." I doubt anyone on here remembers that.

I sure do remember that remark. Do you mean your father coined the expression?

Hello ALL

As long as there are Manhattan ferry terminals and ferry boats featured in other locations in this thread,  here is an very excellent professionally filmed set of two film movies edited to one video --- Manhattan Trolleys filmed in 1929 and a 2nd film done in 1924,  using likely 16mm  B&W movie film cameras.  There are description captions at the beginning  of each film segment --- LINK BELOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKPx58N7xZQ

Regards - Joe F

 

 

 

Joe F

bluelinec4 posted:

I stand corrected

 

Hello Ben  !!

And I would hope you would do the same favor to me if I accidentally posted something with incorrect information - thus providing the correct info for the benefit of all the visiting reader-viewers !!

Regards - Joe F

Joe F

Joe F, thanks for the link to the ferry terminal videos.  Many a time I came across the North (Hudson) River on those ferries.  I remember that streetcars, with their open sides in the summer.  On a warm day, with a southerly breeze, there was an overpowering stench of hot blood from the New York Butchers Dressed Meat Company slaughterhouse a few blocks down.  Those ferries had reciprocating steam engines, great to watch down the gangway hatches from the car deck.

"Thats not an Sd45   Its an SDP45   Longer than standard SD45.  Bigger fuel tank.  EL never had intention of using them in passenger service so they were delivered without steam generators.  They wanted the bigger fuel tanks so they didnt have to refuel their fast piggyback service to and from Chicago"

Thanks Ben!!

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

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