old transformers

Depends on your layout plans. A 1033 is fine for a 4 by 8 layout, but beyond that you need more power. The ZW is still the transformer of choice. Flyer transformers are good but they have no whistle control. Postwar ZWs have whistle control but no bell for newer engines.

Always inspect any old transformer before purchasing or using! The insulation on old power cords tends to get brittle and crack, exposing the wire. When in doubt, replace! Do NOT use a 3 prong plug or a polarized 2 prong plug (one blade wider than the other) when doing this!

Also check the circuit breaker. Many will no longer trip as designed. Replacements are available on line or from well equipped hobby shops. Get the right one for your transformer. Also, be aware that CBs in these transformers were designed to protect the transformer, and not the trains. If you decide to run modern stuff with electronics, you need a separate fast acting CB or fast acting fuses between the transformer and the track. Otherwise damage to the electronics is highly likely.

Chris
LVHR

quote:

Originally posted by opticsguy:

What I am thinking is a row of the same transformers such as 3 KW, 6 - 1044's or?? I really like the look of those vintage V, Z, R and similar transformers.

There is a fellow who posts here who goes by "Bobby Ding" and he has created a control panel of 1044's that has to be seen. An absolutely stunning job. Myself, I think a panel like that just heightens the coolness factor.

As for old transformers, check with member Tranz4mr. He is probably one of the better sources for old transformer repair, refurbish.

Here it is:





Personally, I would love to have a panel like that accenting a vintage layout.

I would love to find a source for those meters as shown in the photos; they really add to the appearance and functionality of powering one's layout.

Steve

Here is a link to meters

http://www.allelectronics.com/...%5D=meters&x=40&y=10

Dale H

I guess I'm just seeing things, but what's with that yellow handle on the transformer on the left?

As for looks lined up together, the ZW can't be beat. That in part is why I have two New ZWs.

Personally, I think a mix of transformers of the old type is also cool.

That is not a yellow handle, its a faded orange handle. There were some made some years ago that would fade that way.

By the way, I wish some of you guys would drop the idea that a large layout needs a large transformer. A 1033 puts out the same or almost the same voltage as a Power House. The problem is voltage drop through the distribution wire. Any transformer that will run a train on a small circle of track will run the same train on a 30 by 100 foot layout if the feeder wire is large and often enough. The reason most people need larger transformers on larger layouts is that they tend to run longer trains with more accessories that need more power not more voltage. It may sound crazy but ask yourself: If I have a very large layout with no trains on it and no accessories do I still need a large transformer?? It is NOT the size of the layout but the power required.

Al

I love the photo of the 1033s all lined up and the added lights but if you intend to run post war with pullmor motors and incandescent lighted passenger cars you will want something with a bit more power. A 1033 will only supply about 5 amps. I would go for the ZWs.

Pete

I recently purchased an American Flyer 12B transformer off of Ebay even though I'm not into any trains made by AC Gilbert. No problems to report as it looks as though it was well cared for over the years, the cord is in great shape too. I'm a sucker for vintage and I love the fact that it is of all metal construction with a little heft to it.

Drop the bucks for a 275 Watt ZW or two. The Flyer transformers are weaker and not that good for running Lionel. Lionel transformers are the way to go if your running Lionel especially larger scales like Standard, and loco's with whistles and horns.

Gandy

OP here.

A 1033 puts out 90 watts.

4 - 1033'3 will put out 360 watts and can run four trains.

A ZW also runs 4 trains but has "only" 275 watts,

So, what is the difference?

The wattage rating of most postwar transformers was input power, not output power. I don't know that a 1033 will actually put out 90 watts.

quote:

Originally posted by opticsguy:
OP here.

A 1033 puts out 90 watts.

4 - 1033'3 will put out 360 watts and can run four trains.

A ZW also runs 4 trains but has "only" 275 watts,

So, what is the difference?

Not really that is input, in reality figure at most 80% of the rated output.

Dale H

Great pic of those transformers up above.

I just acquired my first older transformer, a Lionel 1033. It's been serviced, tested, and has a new power cord. Very good condition. I run a tinplate / toy train layout and really wanted the "look" of a vintage transformer.

quote:

Originally posted by opticsguy:
OP here.

A 1033 puts out 90 watts.

4 - 1033'3 will put out 360 watts and can run four trains.

A ZW also runs 4 trains but has "only" 275 watts,

So, what is the difference?

1033 ---> 6-16 volts output
ZW ---> 8-20 volts output
Z ---> 6-24 volts output

quote:

Originally posted by opticsguy:
OP here.

A 1033 puts out 90 watts.

4 - 1033'3 will put out 360 watts and can run four trains.

A ZW also runs 4 trains but has "only" 275 watts,

So, what is the difference?

The ZW can output full power to one train. The 1033 will do the same. Paralleling 1033s may be possible but not practical to give you 360 watts. 90 watts will be all you can expect and that may not be enough for some trains. Derate the transformers if you wish but each will drop by approximately the same percentage.

Pete

Advantage z/zw: can run mutiple trains.

Advantage 1033: If a 1033 goes out, only one train is affected.

Also, L/MPC made the 1044/6-4090. do these equal the 1033?

I would consider the best transformer for the buck, the Lionel LW at 125 watts. They have gotten to $50 to $60 on ebay but may be cheaper at train shows with no shipping. They have enough power to operate two trains each. Two of these are 250 watts or equal to an old ZW at a much cheaper price. I use three for my layout for trains only (I can operate 5 trains at a time) and other transformers for lights, switches (27 Marx), acc. etc.

I use 6 amp circuit breakers with 18 volt bulbs wired across the breaker contacts to indicate when thrown replicating the old Marx circuit breaker.

Charlie

The LW has the Enterprise arrows on the dials?

That would be the SW.

The LW is a single handle transformer with an illuminated dial:

On one of my previous layouts I had a row of three Z's, and those dude's crank out 6-24 volts as has been stated and let me tell ya, they will make a 2343 F-3 with 20 + postwar cars really motor! I still have the Z's but am using a single ZW on my layout and a KW on my son's right now. I might mess around and see if you can update the 167 whistle controllers with the zener diod's like you can the internal rectifier's on the later transformers and start using the Z's again.

The Z can be a good buy if you can properly install a cord and a new set of carbon rollers. Maybe the only pain is that the V and Z are more difficult to take apart for the first timer. I've paid as little as $20 for a good Z, paid $12 for a Flyer 12B. I like the ZW's too, got two of em, but they have such a following they just cost more unless you get lucky and stumble across a good deal.

I bought a VW on ebay and really like it.150 watts 115 volts 60 cycles.Looks Like a zw.What are the likes and dislikes of this transformer?I also have a ZW, LW, 1O44.I like em all just because they are old.

The V and Z can place 20 V on the track. I think that was for Standard trains.

I am an LW fan all the way. Have at least 6 of them and buy any under $80 that I can get my hands on. To me they are the pinnacle of postwar style with the lighted dial. Yes the cords are often brittle but easily replaceable with repro style cordage.

Wasn't it Richard Kughn who had a large layout powered almost exclusively by LW's?

Sorry, Dom...the V & Z are rated 6-24 volts. The ZW can only put 20 volts out.

The V & Z were new in 1939 and were made until 1947-48 or basically phased out when the ZW came out. Those transformers do not care what train they run.

1939 was the last year for std gauge in the catalog as well.

I have a V I used until I got PowerHouses. Use it as a backup. Yes, it was a Pre-War carry-over. Runs my conv stuff direct or via PowerMast4er ok.

opticsguy,
FWIW Save your three KW's for accessories. If you want postwar power, invest in one or two ZW's. If you want power with less investment, try the prewar Z's. You can buy the Z's for what you would spend on a bunch of itty-bitty 1033's and have money left over.IMHO
God Bless,

I like the idea of mixing old and new for that is exactly what I have on my layout. The main powerhouse is an MRC Dualpower 027 from 1999. There is a Lionel RS-1 from 1992 powering some accessories. My favorite is a postwar TW transformer that powers my trolley and some additional lights. The TW has an output rating of 175 watts.

http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=TW

The TW has an input rating of 175 watts. The most available output for running a train with a TW is about 65 watts. It is an oddball piece of equipment that really is what amounts to two 1033 cores in one case, & only one has a variable output.

The postwarlionel website is rife with blatant errors, another one on the TW, other than the false "175 watts output for one train", is that there are actually two distinct variations of the TW when they claim there are none.

I recently acquired the TW from a friend of my grandmother. I spent about $30 to get it refurbished and I like the postwar look about it. What are the two variations?

There is the 1953 version with a "B" post, and the 1954-1960 version w/o a "B" post. The change had to do mostly with an internal circuitry issue with circuit breaker protection(the TW has two circuit breakers).

There is also a minor change in the green bulb cap mounting method.

Postwar ZWs:
I don't have much experience with postwar transformers other than the pw 275 ZWs. My three pw ZWs are now refurbished and retired or given to children/grandchildren except the first one from the late 1950s which I keep as a retired "faithful servant" .

I was still powering a 1992 built, 5 track, 14x32 operation at our mountain cottage with pw ZWs until the late 1990s-2000. The layout was basically designed to just run and display long trains on wide curves[0108-0156 curve arcs].

My panel amp meters, as well as when tested with a Fluke "loop" amp meter,indicated that all three of the ZWs breakers tripped upon continous running when reaching a load range from about 9 to 10 amps or about 180-190 watts output when pretty hot and producing at lowest efficiency[my meters were rated at about 1-1/2%-2% error variation].

I did these test runs with the ZWs in 1996 after Jim Barrett noted the difference in a pw ZWs input/output efficiency. MY pw 275 ZW's voltage was set at 20 VAC and the several long, lighted passenger trains on both tracks for the test run were moving on. Each track was on a different throttle of a single ZW[A/U and D/U posts]and all three ZWs were tested on this setup.

This experience indicated that my pw ZWs were functioning in an efficiency range of 65-70 percent,input to output, when in pretty hot condition after continous running, often times over an hour run [when showing off my then new MTH Clinchfield Challenger and Southern Ps-4 4-6-2s from MTH and Williams as well as the 4 motored Weaver Southern E8s].

I dismantled this layout in February 2008 which by then was operating with Cab 1 on TMCC with five 180 Power Houses linked to TPCs for Conventional running as well as TMCC.

Nothing scientific regarding my test runs but it did show that the pw ZWs rating of 275 watts gives a misleading indication of the transformer's railpower capacity. Nevertheless, I am a great believer that the pw ZW when refurbished and periodically maintained properly is a near bulletproof and safe unit.

No question, when operating modern equipment the pw ZW should be equipped with external breakers or fuses for overcurrent protection of the transformer and a Transient Voltage Supressor[TVS]for fragile wire and electronic engine component protection from voltage spikes[a breaker/fast fuse will not trip/blow upon a voltage spike, only upon a current surge].

quote:

...Nothing scientific regarding my test runs but it did show that the pw ZWs rating of 275 watts gives a misleading indication of the transformer's railpower capacity....

It should be clear, though, from the beginning, Lionel(and everyone else) rated their appliances based on the AC mains current and power draw.

Lionel's published materials made it very clear what their transformers were capable of(ZW included):

I am still waiting for the "new" ZW. Meanwhile, a KW on my retro layout. The modern layout has powerhouses.

opticsguy

If you are interested in a ZW transformer. I have 2 available. you can contact me at wheeler359@gmail.com. They are both in excellent shape.

Gene

Quite a variety of responses.

Which is more important, voltage or watts? or both?

When I see a bank of 1033's all set up with meters I think that should work fine, then all the guys with the big ZW's say nothing else compares??

In the long run, it is about running trains, and just wanting to get the right look, simple operation and a lot of fun.

I will do more reading and thinking.

Thanks everyone.

PS. I do NOT have 3 KW's

Postwar transformers were introduced back in the day when household line voltage was in a range of 108-112 depending on several factors in the provider's system. Today,line voltage is normally at 120 volts except during brownouts and such. The pw units get a little more input kick at 120VAC.

However, as regards Rob's informative post above,the average o-gauger buying and playing with a train had no easy access to all the service info posted. Data included with my Lionel trains from the 1950 to 1990s had no such data included.

quote:

Originally posted by opticsguy:
Quite a variety of responses.

Which is more important, voltage or watts? or both?

When I see a bank of 1033's all set up with meters I think that should work fine, then all the guys with the big ZW's say nothing else compares??

In the long run, it is about running trains, and just wanting to get the right look, simple operation and a lot of fun.

I will do more reading and thinking.

Thanks everyone.

PS. I do NOT have 3 KW's

16 volts and 70 watts (about what a 1033 puts out) will run most trains if only one is run per loop and LED lighting is installed in passenger cars. If you double headed a very long train it may not be enough. What PW transformer you use depends on personal preference. As with any old PW transformer make sure the power cord is in good shape and the breaker works. Whistle selenium rectifiers often need replacement in PW transformers. They decay from age,not use. If modern locos are run with PC boards you can also install a separate in line fuse or breaker and a TVS, the TVS needed regardless of transformer used modern or PW. Described here

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/Bl...d=486&categoryId=426

Dale H