Optimizing a ZW-C and a ZW-L Transformers

Don(Cerritos) posted:

 

 

1. Should the transformers be reprogrammed other than the default values?

2. IF transformer 1 is programmed 1 thru 4, then transformer 2 needs programming 5 thru 8 ?

3. I believe handles A and D become ineffective when the ZW-C detects the signal from Legacy, and is only varied by the Red Knob on the remote.  IF so, then handle D is a poor choice for Layout Lights. 

4.  When conventional operation is desired it seems the Legacy system would need to be turned off?  Unless you can vary the track power with the Red Knob, hence programming.

5.  Since the command system signal is fed through the "outside" rail, and that is common to the U channel in both transformers.  Operating Legacy on say Track 1, and conventional on track 3 is not really feasible.

Now I'm getting confused, I need a good source of information and instructions on setting up the transformers, any suggestions?

Im trying not to be vague but with all the variables it gets real confusing quickly.  Thank you for any thoughts or suggestions.

 

 

For question #1, yes.  For #2, yes, unless you set up the ZWs in manual mode.

I believe all four terminals on each ZW come programmed #1 through #4. If you program them with #0, they will be in manual mode and will not respond to the Legacy remote.  You could program either, both, or neither to be controlled by the red nob.  You can change which terminal you are controlling by hitting track on the remote and its ID #.  The handles set the maximum voltage in this mode.  I don't think you can have half a ZW in remote mode and the other half in command mode.  

If you are not planning to use the remote to control track voltage, then set both ZWs to ID #0.  You can still use the Legacy remote to operate command engines on fixed voltage tracks. I would not use handle A or D for accessories or lights, since they are best used to vary track voltage, but it will work if you decide to go that route.

Questions # 4 and 5 are not correct.

Do you need the ZW manuals? They should be downloadable on the Lionel website.  Also, programming is really easy following the directions. You don't need to take the ZWs in.

George

My only suggestion for redistribution of power would be to make the Zw-c's A handle a "High power" accessory post.

Then you have 3 diff power options for accessories as 2 don't really give enough option for some of the finicky ones.

I would just connect lights to the most approp of those three as diff lights require diff amounts of power. 

I never find a need to shut off all of the layout lights when I'm running trains.

IN command mode, the  zw-c's a & d handles, regardless of their physical setting, require the user to dial them up from zero using the red knob.

Keep in mind that both xformers have built in power masters on all handles so conventional locos can be run isolated on any of the three loops using the remote to varry voltage, direction and whistle.

If you want to run command locos as conventional (handles) then easiest to unplug the command base to remove the signal.

mike

On the ZW-C with four bricks, all four outputs can be set at 18volts or less if desired.  I would not use a big handle for accessories, only because they are easier to manipulate to control trains.  He has output C open and can set that to 18volts. I think the Z4000 has the lower voltage limit on the B and C outputs, but not the ZW.

I have three questions:

1. How often has the operator run conventional trains in the past year?
2. Would the operator be opposed to controlling conventionally at the transformer?
3. Does the owner have the optional Volt/Amp meters on the ZW-C?

The easiest setup is to put both transformers in manual mode- the term is Conventional (using the switch on the transformer) for the ZW-L and Manually for the ZW-C (programming it to TR #0).

Then use the handles and set the desired voltage for it's assignment.

This enables the layout power to be controlled by one switch.

If a need arises to operate a conventional train, one just powers down the handle for the track, places the engine on the track or enables a siding and operates with the handle.

If the operator wishes to control a conventional train with the remote, turning on the layout becomes a chore each time. When power is applied to the transformers, the A & D channels of the ZW-C and the A,B,C,D channels of the ZW-L must be dialed to the desired voltage each time. This requires having both transformers in command mode. (yes to ZW-L TR 1-4 and ZW-C  TR 5-8)

This would become annoying for the option of infrequently controlling a conventional engine with a remote.

The answers to the 3 questions will tell you what the operator thinks he wants. You could present to need to set the voltage on 6 outputs each time an operating session begins to confirm that they really want to operate conventionally with the remote. It would also require that the ZW-C be equipped with the optional Volt/Amp meters to make the process more convenient. They are built in with the ZW-L.

Output Assignment consideration:

It would be convenient to have the loop adjacent to yard for conventional running if the yard is a storage yard with complete trains and the operator desires to bring one out. Then, the rest of the layout could continue to operate in command mode.

Get this solid, then examine the existing wiring and discuss the connections separately. The answer to one of your questions is all U's are tied together and the command base can stay on. Connect the base to the ZW-L built in connector or the U for the A post on the ZW-C.

Only one Common bus wire is needed for the entire layout.

That's my 2¢.

Don,  You can really do anything you want, don't over think this.  I would say:  just phase transformers, use the L for heavy lifting and C for the minor stuff.  Remember constant use of ZW-C handles can cause issues if early model.   AS mentioned A & D start at zero regardless of throttle position, while B &C come on at throttle setting.  Hence I use the B&C for accessories.  A and D for track.  Let the remote do everything else.   G

No offense to your friend, but I'd first work on convincing him that he doesn't need 1500 watts of power to run that layout!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

No offense to your friend, but I'd first work on convincing him that he doesn't need 1500 watts of power to run that layout!

Yes but it looks good with ZW!

Also I wonder if the emergency stop will still shut down the transformer when the ZW is running conventional. I do know it stops all the engines though.

cjack posted:

Also I wonder if the emergency stop will still shut down the transformer when the ZW is running conventional. I do know it stops all the engines though.

The manual says that it will.

It says after a HALT command, you need to turn the power supplies (ZW-C) or transformer (ZW-L) off and on again.

Thank you so much for your replys!  You guys have really helped me. 

In summary as a result, I think this is what I will do. 

1. Reprogram both transformers with A ID # at 0.  Preventing have to dial up each of the primary legs on start-up.

2.  Move the "Layout Lites" off of Xfmr 2 throttle D to to throttle C.  Still give ability to raiser and lower layout lights, without excessive use of throttle D.

With those two changes I think it will provide best control of the layout, AND the easiest for him to understand and control.

Reply to specific comments:

George S - You and the other posts helped me get my head straight regarding the Programming options.  Thanks!  I do have a copy of the manuals but was having difficulty applying in my mind which mode would be best.  Thanks!

Graz (Mike) - Think I will go back to Xfmr 1 and have B & C set at 12 and 16v, then the lights (xfmr 2, c) at 10v.  My thinking is he could adjust all the lights to either a bright or low setting.  And for Conventional with the xfmrs in manual mode he can adjust the voltage from the throttle, and control the engines through the remote on other tracks.

George S - I was thinking that of the various uses I had allocated to B & C channels that the lights would make the most sense with the D handle.  But I dont want to promote excessive wear either.

Moonman - Regarding your 3 questions, 1.) He has been collecting and buying for 30 years, not run anything!  And decided he now wanted to set it all up.  2.) I dont think he would have an issue with operating conventionally at the transformer.  If he subsequently would prefer using the button, I can reprogram the transformers at that time, explaining he will need to always dial them up.  3.) No he does not have the optional meter for the ZW-C, (I dont think they are available anymore,)  CARL, really appreciate the expanded explanation you provided.  What you described is exactly what I wanted to do ! 

GGG - George, I share your initial statement about over thinking it with my wife.  She commented, "How did he get to know you so well ?"  Thanks for the heads up regarding the usage of the handles on ZWC. 

GunRunner  - Oh yeah, tried that, but he remains firm on his requirement.  (I actually think he wants his wife to see that everything was being used.)  He was somewhat disappointed that I would only be able to use 4 of the Power House bricks, and not all 6 that he has. 

Cjack (Chuck) - You bring up a good point, I will check that out that both xfmrs shut off.  Thanks

Thanks again all, this forum is great !  Hope I can help someone else as much as you guys have helped me.

In setting the transformers to manual / conventional mode, Carl points out that there is a switch on the ZW-L.  I have the older ZW-C, so I just checked the manual.  I think you just need to flip the switch on the ZW-L, where the ZW-C requires programming it to ID #0.

So cool to break out the collection. I hope you get a chance to run some. George S. pointed out the one detail I was going to note about the ZW-L. The newer one has the switch.

Have fun!

He can use the two extra 180W bricks to power his seat warmer.

Is your friend Tim "The Toolman" Taylor? More power, argh,argh,argh!

I am "Lionel only" also.  Three generations of ZW's.  I also have a 150 watt VW and use it on my 'test' track.