Out of control engines

either a short to the motor, a broken tach wire, or something similar causes the runaway. (because you mention it speeds up)

If it's just maintaining speed that's something else.

The app has a way to enable the E-stop button so you will see it. I believe it's in the app settings screen under "more". I don't have it in front of me right now.

Is it always the same engine?

It has occurred with several different engines. Paul

With the issue occurring with several locomotives and with both the DCS remote and App I would check for signal issues (possibly wiring) as the cause.

It sounds to me like the locomotive is somehow dropping into "conventional" mode at 18 Volts, thus a run away.

Unfortunately, the man with the answers is no longer with us. RIP Barry.

This happened to me when I accidentally touched the speed dial on the screen without realizing it.  The engine took off and in a panic I grabbed it off the track as you describe doing.  I use the Max speed setting now to avoid this.

john in western pa posted:

It sounds to me like the locomotive is somehow dropping into "conventional" mode at 18 Volts, thus a run away.

Unfortunately, the man with the answers is no longer with us. RIP Barry.

Anti-Jackrabbit mode can be toggled off for DCS, which might explain why it continues running at a very high speed. 

I run DCC, and if I hit a section of track where the voltage drops, the engine will lunge as if if is kicking into high speed for about an inch, and then throttle way down. That tells me that the track voltage isnt high enough, likely due to the  track being excessively dirty while running an operational voltage too close to the lower threshhold. But the anti-jackrabbit mode kicks in and prevents the loco from ever getting close to hurling itself into a true high speed.  I dont believe I can toggle it off for DCC, but you can for DCS. 

OK, is the app's speed control going way up when this happens? We need more details to figure out what's happening here. I fear he's just giving general descriptions of something from memory that might be unrelated.

When I've had an engine go into conventional mode, it has actually stopped first, and then accelerated to track voltage speeds. So it was easy to tell what happened.

Is this happening at certain area(s) of the layout? like over switches?

You need to furnish us with exact details. Can you duplicate this happening whenever you choose?

This has happened to me when I use the standard hand held remote and use the selector wheel.  I steer clear of that as a throttle mainly because this has happened.  I start dialing in faster speeds and all of a sudden, no warning, I look down and it is set to 110 and away we go.  I frantically try to dial down the speed, but whatever slammed it into overdrive won't let go so E stop here we come.

My condolences to Barry's family.  I had the honor of having a few of my questions answered by him.  God speed Barry. 

I have all engines set at 40 smph in DCS; never had one "drop" into conventional. I had one PS3 engine go rogue at startup quite often, but rerouting wires over supercaps fixed that. Never heard of anti-jackrabbit mode. Where exactly is that setting?

I have had this happen to me several times using my iPad and the DCS Wi-Fi app. I know of others that have experienced this problem. In my case it occurred when adjusting the speed dial upward. The needle just kept moving up and I could not stop it by touching the needle or the E stop button. 

I do not believe this problem is related to wiring or locomotive issues. It appears to be a DCS signal/system issue.

I'm glad you said that.  I know DCS is a fantastic remote control system, and I'm sure Legacy is too giving a shout out to Lionel.  But in both cases, they are electronic devices with a whole bucket load of things to have to do and remember and like our cell phones suddenly losing signal right next a tower, or my microwave telling me to close the door when the door is already closed, they have their moments.  My hope is that someone from MTH who has control over DCS and its capabilities will see these threads and instead of defending the system, and getting upset because someone is finding a possible problem with it, go back and test some of our findings and see if there might be a chip or a circuit or a software line of code that is getting its signals crossed.  We aren't movie critics, we are users who want our trains to do what we command.  Not go off half cocked like a bat out of hell crashing into things.

John H

I think I read in Barry's book, "rest his soul", a page where he talked about the "wildcat" command?  The book is downstairs and i'm too lazy to get up and go get it.  But it was a paragraph about how engines have the option of starting in command or conventional mode, and sometimes the wildcat command will take over.  If it does, the engine starts but won't respond to the remote.  When I first started adding engines to my remote, one problem I had, until I wired the track correctly with booster drops, I would set the engine on the track at the most powerful point leading from the TIU and as soon as I powered up the system, the engine started.  Wasn't even in the remote yet, much less an active engine in the remote.  My DDA40X did it, my Norfolk Southern Veterans engine did it, CSX ES44AC, my two Lionel engines not only fired up spontaneously but even after I shut them down, something that did work remotely, they would begin coming alive.  My engines make some sort of telephone ring sound when they shut down.  I'd be messing with something else and all of a sudden i'd hear a faint telephone ring.  I look over and my Lionel engine's cab light is on and a faint ringing is coming from it.  Left alone long enough, it would fire up.

Once I wired in the booster drops and powered the track stronger, the DCS signal got stronger and the system worked much better with my track.  As everyone said it would, thank you to all who helped me last year.  But whatever is causing this sudden burst of unsolicited power usually happens to me when the selector wheel is used to increase speed.  I've actually spun the wheel so fast, the numbers won't respond.  Maybe while doing that I filled a buffer or something and then accidentally pushed the button down, thus causing some sort of quickset speed that confused it.  It set the speed to 110 and then panicked.

Yardmaster96 posted:

…. I start dialing in faster speeds and all of a sudden, no warning, I look down and it is set to 110 and away we go. 

First, set the max speed on each engine to prevent this full speed runaways. If you have it set to say 70MPH, that's as fast as it will run. My RR has a speed limit of 70 MPH on everything I run. Some of my older steam and switchers are set lower.

 For you it maybe the thumbwheel is starting to fail? I don't know exactly as I'm not there to see it. It is odd. So use the thumbwheel depress (quick set) to set the desired speed , type it in and when you see the desired speed in the screen, depress the thumbwheel again to set it. Make sure that you see the speed change is taken or it may still be active waiting for a change. If it jumps around greatly just depressing the thumbwheel, then maybe somethings wrong. Some operators have trouble depressing the thumbwheel without turning it. Some depress it too hard. When it wears out it wonders around wildly on it's own when spinning it.

 Remember that two pushes on the brake sets the speed to zero. You can also toggle the direction button for fast setting to zero. Finally the red kill button is there for fast killing of the power.

 I believe there could be something else wrong, but it works fine here. Are you upgraded to the latest software DCS 6.1 in both the tiu and remote?

fcavolo posted:

I have had this happen to me several times using my iPad and the DCS Wi-Fi app. I know of others that have experienced this problem. In my case it occurred when adjusting the speed dial upward. The needle just kept moving up and I could not stop it by touching the needle or the E stop button. 

I do not believe this problem is related to wiring or locomotive issues. It appears to be a DCS signal/system issue.

 

 

 

 

If you tap the app's screen, you can accidently set it to full speed. You touch the screen's outside area around the circle to set the speed or use the up down arrows. It was that if you tapped the up button more than twice fast, it would go to full. I forget if they fixed that yet. I just touch the dial where I want to set the speed at.

 Are you using the latest version of the app?

Again, you can press the direction button to go to zero pretty fast in a panic.

Joe

I have the max speed set to 60.  Even so, one day I was spinning the wheel rapidly upward and suddenly the locomotive was off to the races.  I look down at the screen, 120.  So in this case, it over rode my max speed setting.  As for stopping it, DIR frantically pressed several times did not work and it was feet away from giving the last car on a siding tracked train a ditch light whoopin' because the switch was open.  E stop is the only thing that prevented that.

I once had a stopped, silent engine, suddenly start and come flying out of its parking area, train and all, at break neck speed because I pushed something on the remote.  I admit these poltergeists are few and far between, but they have happened.  As for my upgrade to 6.1, I haven't done that yet.  I understand it is more for users who wish to jump to WIFI?  I do have a question since you brought that up.  What are the speaker wires for?  I can't wrap my head around why you hook one side to a hole in the TIU and the other to another hole in the other side of the same TIU.  Can you explain that.  I understand all the other hook ups.

Thanks for the information.  John

I had the runaway engine problem using the app and my ipad.  After it happened a few times, I realized that I hit the ‘speedometer’ at the point of it’s maximum setting which is 120 mph.  It’s position on the dial is so near the ‘plus’ button that my fat finger must have hit it.  Setting a lower max speed moves that button on the dial out of the way.  My runaway’s with the app ceased to occur once I did that.  But it must be done for each and every engine.  

Yardmaster96 posted:

Joe

...What are the speaker wires for?  I can't wrap my head around why you hook one side to a hole in the TIU and the other to another hole in the other side of the same TIU.  Can you explain that.  I understand all the other hook ups.

Thanks for the information.  John

I can only guess that someone connected speaker wires to your TIU and that's what you're asking about? The TIU doesn't come with anything connected to it. It is connected in the chain of power to work properly.

There's an input side and an output side on the TIU. The TIU adds the DCS signal to wires connected to each channel. The variable channels can control the track voltage or be set to fixed like the 2 fixed channels. It also can cut the power flow when the Emergency stop button is pressed. So that's what "active wiring" does.

 Some users connect only the output side of the TIU and that's called passive wiring. Only the signal is added and there's no TIU in the chain to control the power. The main benefit of that is it removes the maximum 10 amp per channel limit.

Some people feel that DCS is just a strange occurrence and don't understand exactly how it works. It is like a 2 way communication platform. If the signal is squashed it doesn't perform correctly. Most of the time it's actually from the power not being distributed to the layout correctly and it shows up in low signal performance. Bad or low signal can be from other things too like certain equipment killing it.

 I hope I understood your question correctly? The "hole" part left me guessing.

It is important to update each item to get proper fixes to bugs that came in certain DCS releases. It also allows for upgrades to new features by MTH. Not upgrading, can lead to issues that are harder to trace if older DCS (or app) releases are being mixed in.

The presence of the red button on the app screen is a settable option.