P&D GP9 Drive Problems

the issue is not with the P&D drive parts,  but the original Weaver sprockets. the acetal sprocket material was not aged and would split. if you don't have confidence in the P&D sprockets (I have had no problems with them over many years), you can also order them from Sterling Instruments.

My experience has also been that the original Weaver gears and sprockets were prone to cracking.    P&D has replaced the original weaver parts in their drives.   Also replacements I got direct from weaver when they still serviced them worked out fine.

That being said, you still might get a cracked gear or sprocket at some point.    Or some other part.

But the beauty of these drives is that yes you can do all the repairs and rebuilds yourself with a few hand tools and some patience.    You do not need a metal lathe at all to work on these.

I used NWSL wheel set, and they are working perfect, beside the brass bushing included.

Regarding the Fine scale 360 IMO is a big plus, because the chain links are, in some case not enough to adjust it properly so the chain will be too tight or too lose. 

my 2 cents.

Andre.

There's a lot of good info about this here:  

https://bobsobol.smugmug.com/T...PD-Drive-Train-Work/

I have shamelessly copied everything I learned there and from several threads on here with MaxSouthOz and others and it works great with the Finescale 360 chassis and drive upgrades. I recently added a Maxon coreless motor, Loksound Select HO decoder and Tang Band speaker to the upgrades on an RC GP9. My best running and sounding loco so far!   

I have done the yards on a Weaver, Stephen - and learned a lot in the process.

No special tools required. 

This might help . . .

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...first-attempt?page=1

Good Luck  It will be fine.

According to another post here on the forum, the Atlas gp9 frame will also work for this kit.  It stands to reason, as Atlas bought the Red Caboose tooling.  The Atlas frame shows in stock now at $14.95 each, although it does not include the pilots.  I can't speak to amending or attaching original drive components to the Atlas frame.  That may be more trouble than it's worth.

Atlas gp9 sill unit

Jim

As for the metal lathe I used, if you stick to P&D replacement parts you can do everything with just hand tools. I wanted to change the sprocket ratio for slower speed running. That helped when I used non-back EMF decoders. These days the motor control in the Loksound L is so good I won't change any more drives. The original drive ratio also produces less chain noise. 

Because acetyl shrinks over time, there have been outbreaks of cracked gears in many vendor's products, even in certain runs of HO locomotives. Over many years stuff happens.

Question for Pete - Which Tang Band speaker did you fit in your GP9 and where did you install it?

I might have some parts for free if you want them.

I looked at the Atlas frame on line in the parts list.   Based on the drawing, it does not look like the P&D conversion will be a drop in.   I think you will have to drill and tap the aluminum frame to install truck bolsters.    You have to cut and drill the original IM frame for this also.     And it looks to me like the pilots and steps install totally differently on the Atlas.   On the IM unit the pilot/step assembly is part of the shell and wold have to be cut off.    On the Atlas it looks they are separate parts that screw on.

As an aside, Des Plaines hobbies in Chicago (they have a web site) sell machined frames for these  units that fit the P&D drive and provide weight.   They are pricey, but nice.   I think 60-80 dollars apiece.

The P&D sprockets are quite reliable. Every Weaver sold had the sprockets changed before they were shipped out. No returns on those.

Hello Patrick.

I certainly would be interested in what you may have.  I have three Red Caboose kits (2 full kits and 1 body kit).  I am going to convert the two powered units to DCC (dead rail I think at this point) using Loksound Decoders, Des Plains Hobbies frames and P&D drives (none of which I have purchased yet).  My first attempt at DCC and first attempt with Dead Rail.

Sincerely,

Stephen Wilson

riogrande491 posted:

As for the metal lathe I used, if you stick to P&D replacement parts you can do everything with just hand tools. I wanted to change the sprocket ratio for slower speed running. That helped when I used non-back EMF decoders. These days the motor control in the Loksound L is so good I won't change any more drives. The original drive ratio also produces less chain noise. 

Because acetyl shrinks over time, there have been outbreaks of cracked gears in many vendor's products, even in certain runs of HO locomotives. Over many years stuff happens.

Question for Pete - Which Tang Band speaker did you fit in your GP9 and where did you install it?

 

Bob, I took your recommendation and used the T1-1925S. Cut off the end tabs and fixed it on some side plate "legs" behind the motor and above the drive. I 3M taped them to the sides of the Finescale 360 weights. It just fits but I had to shave the inside edges of the plastic frame/walkway piece that sits on the metal chassis slightly to get the body on.

Excuse the spaghetti wiring, still in test phase, honest... 

I am continually amazed and inspired by what you and your colleagues are doing on the A&O. Thank you!    

Sorry about the thread drift. 

Pete—which Maxxon motor and from where did you procure it?

riogrande491 posted:

Sorry about the thread drift. 

Pete—which Maxxon motor and from where did you procure it?

Bob, it's a Maxon RE 25, model # 118751.  I get them from The Motorman at micro-loco-motion.com   Used and surplus coreless motors of variety!

Same length as a Pittman 85xx but narrower at 25mm dia. Also the shafts have to be sleeved out from 3mm to ~4mm for Weaver/P&D drive. I've bought 4 so far, all work great.  The spec sheet is borderline for HO decoders, but I've tested with 25 x 1lb cars on level track to make sure I could get away with it. Probably about 1/4 of what you'll need to pull on the A&O mind you...  My locos are weighted to get to wheel-slip before stalling and I don't have any overload issues so far. I do mount the decoders on a brass sheet heat-sink with some CPU thermal goop. Not sure if that's really necessary but I'm a bit of a worrier...   

HTH

Here's how I fix them....

Mechanisms for Red Caboose GP-9s. P&D brass trucks and Des Plaines brass frames. As usual, Faulhaber gear head motors with everything turning 1:1 in ball bearings and wipers mounted in Delrin.

Decoder is LokSound. They are new to me but from my limited knowledge they seem really good.

One down, two to go. Two are P48, one is regular O Scale.

Wheels spinning and maximum voltage (13.5 volts) draws .22 amps.  My Pittman  gear heads can't do it, plus they won't fit.  The secret is very efficient gearhead motors

Looks like I need to touch up some paint.

You may see the first one a lot in the future.

Jay

Nice work Jay!  What's your overall gear ratio (motor to the wheels), and top speed running light at 13.5 volts?  Thanks!!

Hey Ted,

I was hoping nobody would ask!  Actually, I haven't figured it out yet.

The gear head motor is 14:1

The motor tower is 1:.82

The truck towers are 1.5:1

Top speed hasn't be computed yet.  I just knew this set of ratios gave nice slow to medium speed for switching or yard work.  Ball park 30 to 35 mph.

If the customer wants to speed things up a bit we just change the upper pulleys and belts of the truck towers.

Jay

Ted,

Overall works out to 17.2:1

Jay

Jay -

Can you post a photo or two of how you did the pickup wipers?

Thanks!

Bob S