Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Original Post

Dan,

Do not abandon hope, ye who enter here!

Joe at Island Modelworks might do a carbody for you, if you can get up the numbers to make such a venture worthwhile. Joe makes a number of rapid transit bodies to fit the frames of others' cars of the same length; you might even be able to find something here on his website that could be adapted to your needs: http://islandmodelworks.com/Oscale.html

If you should wind up doing some "kitbashing" to achieve your heart's desire, Quentin at Q-Car has lots and lots of parts and is a fantastic resource: http://www.qcarcompany.com/

Best of luck!

Hello Dan -----

The Market-Frankford BUDD-built  "Almond Joy" (roof style, heh) EL cars,   and the old Broad Street Subway Cars,  were made as epoxy resin bodies by Imperial Hobby Productions.  But only in HO and N Scales.  IHP (Mike Bartel) did for a short time,  plan to offer those cars in O -Scale but that plan was soon cancelled and those items he removed  from his website.  Perhaps IHP may have made the Kawasaki (1980 era) Broad 4 class Subway Cars --- in HO Scale -- .  Here is the IHP Shapeways' link:   http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobby/?s=0

Steve Olsen totally scratch-built a pre-war Broad Street (South Broad class) in O-Scale -- here BELOW are a few photos of it. 

We few remaining old timer 2-rail O-"Scaler's" have for the past 5  decades,  had  to for the most part,  self-scratch-build our own specific desired subway (and "EL") cars - and trolley cars -- and I have done quite very many NY transit rolling stock myself. 

Sadly, there is - (and has for my 46 years in Philly) - almost no known interest in modeling (and thus production-model-marketing,) "Philadelphia Rapid Transit"  -- a region where the traction fans (and modelers) are mostly quite more into the City and Suburban STREETCARS, past and present,  only.  And there are plenty of models of those various eras, classes,  of Philly region streetcars in all scales available -- both ready to run and epoxy resin kits to finish.

ISLAND MODEL WORKS did produce the Kawasaki 1980 era Broad 4 Subway Cars,  The BUDD Market-Frankford 1960 era (Almond Joy roof) EL Cars,  and the newest Market Frankford  ME-3  (presently operating) EL Cars   BUT all ONLY in HO SCALE.  Here is his webpage with photos of these items;

http://islandmodelworks.com/philly.html

For some reason,  there is very little interest (or not enough) to do any production run of these three car types in O SCALE   -- and remember, ONLY as body shells which you have to finish up - paint, power, etc. etc., to full completion.

 regards - Joe F

 

BELOW - 3 photos of O SCALE scratch built "South Broad" Subway Car built and finished by Steven Olsen .
Steve also built and maintains  our New York City Model Transit Assn. WEBSITE

IMG_2341IMG_2342IMG_2343

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Last edited by Joseph Frank

Aaah!  Where there's light rail there's hope for HEAVY RAIL!  Island Modelworks Joe had an SIRT "ME-1" available in HO (http://islandmodelworks.com/StatenIsland.html) but no version had ever been made in O.  I begged and pleaded, offered the fact that the MTH BMT Standard was of the same length and breadth, and polled like-minded friends until we had enough buyers for Joe to justify an O Scale/Gauge version:

http://islandmodelworks.com/ONYC.html

It is a wonderful model and perhaps, with the right incentive, he would do the same for you.  The number of Staten Island Rapid Transit Railway - Staten Island Rapid Transit Operating Authority - Staten Island Railway buffs out there is minute by comparison to the number of SEPTA fans in the greater Philly area.  I'd suggest that you beat the bushes for potential buyers at clubs, BLOGs, LHSs, etc, to see how much interest you can generate and then, presuming you can find a fair number of potential customers, approach Joe with your proposition.  He's a really nice guy, a Forum advertiser and makes what I consider to be an excellent product.

And while we're talking about "resources", Joe Franks is just amazing!

 

Hello Sam  (Holmes)  ---

You are very correct about the SIRT "ME-1 Cars" in O-Scale -- and the "how it got produced" with your strong input  to Joe Ogden at Island Model Works.   Also,  Joe Ogden has long been a member of my NYC Transit Modelers Group (Forum Board) and there was a movement at my group with Joe-O to also get the SIRT car produced.  I and Steve Davis worked with Joe-O on the Body details and refinements -  Steve took EXTENSIVE detailed close up exterior photos of the one car at BERA Musuem including under the car and up on and along its roof, of which I have all copies of.  Steve and I and a few of my NYCTMG members pre-ordered and purchased the SIRT car in O Scale  (I ordered and received 2 cars). 

Steve and I also worked intently with Joe-O on the production (and body details) for the O-Scale IRT 1939 Steinway Low-V Car Bodies, and the BMT 3-Unit D-Type Articulated Subway cars.  Originally on those D-Type Triplex cars,  the roof profile and end details were somewhat slightly incorrect on the pre-production "pilot" master bodies, and the roofs were changed to correct appearance by Joe-O at our insistence.  Joe Ogden works well with people in such matters !

If Joe-O were to produce O-Scale Broad Street (pre-war and post-war) cars -- and Market EL (pre-war and post-war) cars,  I would order a few of each !  So, it is up to others  who are interested, to see if the needed minimum numbers (about 30 cars of each type) can be conjured up, with guarantees of $$ deposit pre-orders --  (money talks and B--S-- walks, heh) !!

regards ! - Joe F

 

 

Last edited by Joseph Frank

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

Frankford%202%2011.6Frankford%2011.6Market%202%2011.6Market%2011.6Philly%203%2011.6Philly%204%2011.6  

 

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O-Scale Boston Elevated Car 0923Scott Ruffen O Scale Boston EL Cars-2Scott Ruffen O Scale Boston EL Cars-4Scott Ruffen O Scale Boston EL Cars-3Scott Ruffen O Scale Boston EL Cars-1         

Hello again Guys ----

A Boston EL Fan modeler friend of mine, named Scott Ruffin,  has scratch built some O-Scale BOSTON EL - Subway Cars --- here are some photos of his work -- again, of models never produced commercially.  Mainly due to little to no interest -- remember - BOSTON - Like Philly,  long was and still is a heavy TROLLEY FAN and MODELER based area !

regards - Joe F

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Last edited by Joseph Frank

Hello,

    As Joe as stated, we have made several O scale models in the past and would be happy to produce more in the future. We can easily produce the Broad Street cars, M3's, or M4's, in O scale as we already produce those models in HO scale. The Staten Island cars were very successful as well, we plan on running those again as complete kits in the future. As Joe also stated, it costs a lot of money to produce the models, if interest were there for at least 25 kits or bodies, we would produce ANY model, provided that we had the resources to produce a highly accurate model. Garner up support for a project and shoot me an email.  We've been very busy producing SEPTA models lately as we have a close relationship with them and they are the driving force behind bringing out our rash of SEPTA models.

Thank you,

Joe

Island Modelworks LLC

 

 

 

Thank you, both Joes and all of your co-conspirators, for producing a beautiful model of the SIRT Rwy. MUEs!

I've been working on my layout design and have just begun construction so that the three BMT Standard units that I've stripped in preparation for converson will have a place to roam - Free Range in Grass Range!  One of the three units is a BMT Standard "locomotive", one is a BMT Standard "trailer" converted using all the necessary parts from a MTH Lo-V, and the third is a straight trailer - all will be numbered accordingly.  I'm hoping to find some trucks with which to motorize more of my BMT trailers and will rely on you experts to guide me.  Q-Car Quentin advises me that there are no appropriate O Scale Maximum Traction trucks out there but perhaps there's something that's close enough.  It's funny that NWSL is just down the road about six hours from me.

 

Dan-

There is one other possibility you may wish to consider.  As you may know, SEPTA operated used CTA 6000-series PCC el cars on the Norristown line in the 1980s/90s.  MTH CTA sets for these cars still show up on ebay from time to time.  Make sure you get the red-white-blue CTA Bicentennial livery.  From there,  you can operate the cars almost as-is after you change out the car numbers, destination signs, and logos.  They ran this way initially until subsequently repainted into SEPTA's  Bicentennial livery.  I have some of these cars already and intend to repaint full SEPTA at some future date.

If Joe Ogden finally does come out with O-scale Almond Joys, however, I'm ready to play.

Good luck and best wishes.

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

Frankford%202%2011.6Frankford%2011.6Market%202%2011.6Market%2011.6Philly%203%2011.6Philly%204%2011.6  

 

Hi-

If anyone knows CTSRapid, or if he happens to see this post, I would like to ask him some ? about the Broad St Line Cars he built.  Amazing.   My email is jcovertpa@gmail.com

Thanks

As a kid, I rode those older Frankfort El cars many times, going in town with my mother to shop at Wanamakers, Gimbals, Snellenburgs, Lits.  To me, they were like riding on a monorail they swayed so much.  

In 1983, I was working in town and would take the Broad Street Subway to center city.  That summer, the new orange cars showed up.  I remember coming home one day, riding in one of them for the first time.  The air-conditioning must have been on full tilt or malfunctioning.  While it was a thrill to be riding the new cars for the first time, I couldn't wait to get to Fern Rock !

I grew up right next to the Boulevard.  The Almond Joy cars were being delivered to Frankfort when I was about 12 years old, 1960.  My buddies and I would sit on the curb of the Boulevard and besides counting cars, would wait to see the new El cars being carried on flat bed trailers.  Ah, the things that make you happy as a kid.  Wait, those same things still make me happy ! 

Jeff-

Broad Street subway is an Atlas Comet commuter car in disguise.  Any of several roads they modeled will do.  Sides are covered with Evergreen clear plastic sheets for windows and recovered with Evergreen corrugated strips below the window line to simulate fluted stainless steel streamlined panels.  Add downloaded pictures from prototypical photos (including those peculiar destination signs) and M.V. colored lenses and you have something resembling those colorful orange cars.  Have used same technique for long modern cars from Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto.  Takes a bit of time and patience, however.

Dan Padova posted:

Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Hi, if you go to the nicholas smith website you what you want.

phil

 

CTSRapid posted:

Jeff-

Broad Street subway is an Atlas Comet commuter car in disguise.  Any of several roads they modeled will do.  Sides are covered with Evergreen clear plastic sheets for windows and recovered with Evergreen corrugated strips below the window line to simulate fluted stainless steel streamlined panels.  Add downloaded pictures from prototypical photos (including those peculiar destination signs) and M.V. colored lenses and you have something resembling those colorful orange cars.  Have used same technique for long modern cars from Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto.  Takes a bit of time and patience, however.

Hi CTS-

Thanks - that helps.  If you have any other photos of the Broad St cars could you please post or shoot me an email with the photos?

I looked up the Atlas Comet Commuter cars online.  Are they the same as Comet II commuter cars, or is there a Comet 1 commuter car?

Thanks again - never thought I would see a Broad St subway car made by someone.

Jeff

Hello Tom --

Thanks for the support --  I would expect same from an ex Bronx "Mountie" (Mt St Mike)  guy - just like me !!  

I am very glad to see so much response and interest posted here for the PRT / PTC / SEPTA  era Broad Street Subway Cars and Market Frankford EL Cars - pre war and post war car types.    When I was the main Tech Support person since 2000 for all the MTH produced O-Gauge NYC Subway Sets cars,  I brought up,  back in the mid 2000's,  with the MTH VP Mark H.,  whom I had been continually working closely with,   the topic about possibly doing a production run of Philly Subway-EL cars  - as MTH was producing the O-Gauge CHICAGO EL CARS.   After some survey research done, there was far not enough interest volume nor support expressed to consider any such Philly Subway-EL production models -- as MTH would have had to produce at least a thousand model units (based on 3 or 4 car sets) and sell them - for each carbody type produced - to cover tool & die, and manufacturing, shipping, etc.,  costs and make any profits. 

Re: the MTH Chicago EL Cars,  there was a tremendous volume amount of survey research interest, support,  (just as with the NY Subway sets) and pre-order-promises, to take a chance producing them.  And they all sold well.

NYC Subway-EL  car models,  and  Chicago Subway-EL  (and Chicago Interurban  Lines) car models,   were already quite well long  sales-established since the 1960's thru the then-mid-2000's,  in HO Scale, some in N Scale, and a few in O-Scale,  as brass,  white metal,  or epoxy resin models, by various Jobber-Importer-Manufacturers of those decades.  There was NOTHING at all like that ever realized for Philly Subway Cars as far as ANY production in any scales of Philly Subway-EL Car models.  There was a reason why !!  Just NOT enough volume of interest level !!

However, there was quite enough interest in the MTH produced "PCC" Trolley Car line, and as you see, MTH did produce an O-Gauge PCC Car done up in many Transit Name schemes, as well as in a few SEPTA color schemes,  including the Green-Cream PTC version of the Pre-SEPTA era.  These all are long ago sold out !  This was also the case for many decades  of the production and sales of HO, N and some O Scale brass,  white metal, and plastic production manufactured models of PCC  (and standard body)  model streetcars, and those limited runs done in epoxy resin --- many done in various Philly paint schemes (PTC, SEPTA)

As I stated earlier,  Philly was and still is mainly a TROLLEY CAR fan and TROLLEY CAR modelers "city and region".  And that is what you see at the Philly region railroad and traction shows !  Also Philly has a large railfan base for commuter rail (ex-READING RR,  ex-PENNSYLVANIA RR,  ex-B&O RR and SEPTA Regional Rail.) 

Perhaps NOW enough interest can be generated thru people here (and other forums) to have these Philly Subway-EL Car O-Scale Models produced in smooth resin in the limited run (25, 30 items) numbers minimum required to start to produce them.  Perhaps by IMW.

BELOW  top photo is an O SCALE fully scratch built Chicago wood EL Car built by friend ED HALSTEAD some years ago, 

and the BOTTOM photo is my old friend BOB OLSON's  (no relation to Steve Olsen)  fully scratch built O-SCALE wooden BMT "C" type EL train (ran on Fulton Street EL) on his scratch built BMT EL and layout - and his O-Scale Brooklyn streetcars on the streets below.  We are in the scratch-builders "dinosaur era"  modeling club,  heh !

Ed halsetad CRT EL Car #3143 in 2011BobOlsonLayout1

regards - Joe F

 

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