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So I grabbed a gutted, unfinished MTH Premier S1 steamer today from the MTH auction (thank you @Cabin Fever Auctions) for what I believe to be a steal.

Anyone with the S1, would you mind sharing any photos of the interior? My plan is to install some PS1 guts (yes I know original was PS3, but I only run conventional) and finish off the ornamental stuff as I can.

My biggest question is the drive train...I assume this is a 2-motor setup. I have some experience with mounting motors in custom brackets, but would be nice to know if the motors for this guy are relatively easy to mount and exchange.

Also would be looking for tips on sourcing some of the other things that I might not be thinking of. For example, I'm guessing there is a drive shaft connecting the bogies, and there lots of stuff I can grab off of McMaster but the more I know up front the better.

I was reading about this particular loco and it appears that Pennsy was the only operator, and only one was ever built. The factory paint is obviously a jet black with gold PA graphics, but I'm not that concerned about prototypes and finishes. I'm thinking a deep gloss blue and gold maybe...Screenshot_20201024-170747_WhatsApp

Any tips or advice on this guy greatly appreciated! Even better, if anyone has anything related to this guy sitting in a parts box, I'm ready to make a deal!

Looking forward to this one...

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Last edited by Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy
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This would have been a single Pittman motor....dogbone and coupler set up....parts are as scarce as hens teeth....I hope you have the coupling driveshafts at least....I have a lot these parts in stock, however, they are at a premium as supplies are extremely limited......if you’d like to send me some pics of it with the shell off, and we can go from there, or you can contact Midge at the parts dept. of MTH as they are still selling/supplying parts.......

Pat

Thanks, Pat!  Certainly will send photos when it comes in.  I don't have an issue fabricating small parts if things aren't available...things like drive shafts, mounting brackets, etc.  But if they are available to buy, that's typically a better option unless the price is 3x what it would cost to custom make.

Problem we’re seeing is guys are getting these engineering samples and they’re gutted like fish, no worm shafts, no driveshafts, no motor mount, no motors....etc., etc.,....fabbing the driveshafts isn’t a problem, it’s the worm gear shafts that are the issue, then there’s the issue of motors....there are practically no stock OE motors left anywheres.........let’s see what you got when you get it in your hands...

Pat

the saving grace for you Jeff, will be the fact you’re willing to keep it simple conventional....if you’d tried to kit it, and make it functional, you’d surpass the street value in the blink of an eye....you might be ok...like I said, if at least the worm shafts are there, that’s 3/4’s of the battle....then you got a good shot of making it run....I’ve seen these engineering samples in a whole bunch of different states of disarray....some having not a gear in sight, others darn near ready to run......I hope you can make her run buddy....she is a beautiful beast...

Pat

I've had one of these apart. There is a 9434 Pittman mounted in the firebox. The rear set of drivers has a worm shaft with cups for a driveshaft at either end. The front worm shaft just has a cup for a driveshaft at the rear. The setup is motor/flywheel/drive shaft/worm shaft/driveshaft/worm shaft. There are no u-joints as the drivers are not articulated (and need every bit of 072). Parts are hard to find. I'd try contacting midge and MTH to at least obtain the worm shafts and motor mount if you want it to run. The motor, flywheel, and drive shafts can be sourced from other sources (Lionel, etc.). 

I used one of these engineering samples/catalog artwork samples as a project base over the summer: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...locomotive-from-junk

Ok, got the S1 in today and tore into it.

All I'm all, I'm thrilled with what we got for the price. Original packaging, including all foam and protective inserts.

The shell and chassis appear flawless, no broken bits, no scratches, really nice.

HUGE bonus, it appears that ALL of the exterior detail parts were included in a separate bag. All the pop valves, ladders, handrails, lights, panel covers, running boards, headlamp assemblies... It's all here. This is honestly the biggest surprise because the auction ad says "no parts / motor"

Upon removing the shells from the loco and tender, the gearbox covers are both present, as well as the motor mount (big plus here!). So I can work with this. The worm gears are present on the drive axles. All wheel assembly and piston rod assemblies are complete.

Now, definitely going to need the driveline including the worm shafts and drive shafts. I may have a motor that is strong enough, otherwise will be looking to source a motor.

Tender has a 4 ohm speaker installed, but I'm going to be installing a PS1 boards that I already have, so that will get swapped out. Other excellent news is that all wiring harnesses, tethers are included. Even though they're configured for PS2, it's easy enough for me to use them to run PS1 stuff back and forth.

Even had aPS2 smoke unit with all wires and connectors. Unfortunately I can't use it, so if anyone wants to trade me a PS2 smoker for a PS1, let's talk.

Will forward this info to Midge as well, fingers crossed she can help with the drive shafts.



Edit: @Lou1985 & @harmonyards: Do the gearboxes also need a bushing / bearing at each end for the worm shaft to sit in?  The gearbox cover plates are present, but I can't find any sort of bushing that has a round hole that can fit in the slots on each side.  I'll also ask Midge.

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Last edited by Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy

Yes the worm shafts have ball bearings on each end. Usually the bearing on the end of the shaft opposite of the coupler slides on and off the shaft. The bearing on the coupler end (rear) is kept on the shaft by the coupler. When you order the worm it includes that rear bearing. The front one is a separate piece. Pat, @harmonyards, should know the size of the bearing MTH uses. I had it written down but can't locate it right now. It's around 8mm, if I remember correctly, and is flanged on one end.

If you have the rest of the wiring in that bag, including the tether connector for the locomotive, you might just need a MUX board and PS32 board to make the thing fully functional.

Last edited by Lou1985

It’s a 4mmX9mm flanged bearing...slip fit...be sure to get whatever sleeve goes on the front end of any open ended shaft.....I believe this loco uses two shafts, with a secondary dog bone between the two shafts. So the very front forward shaft will be open ended....you’ll need that sleeve to set the shaft end play. With out it, the forward shaft will rock too much between the bearing ends, and you’ll destroy the worm wheel in short order....The sacrificial lamb unfortunately, is the worm wheel, not the worm shaft.....the worm shaft is as hard as darn it, the worm wheel is a much softer alloy....

Pat

@Lou1985: Thanks for the info.  I'm actually going to move a good PS2 3V board from a Railking E9 into the tender of this loco.  I'll need to learn how to install the sound file, unfortunately I have no TIU so I might need to see if I can meet up with someone in the Cincy area has one that I could either borrow or have them do it for me.  My original plan was to use a PS1 board, but since it actually came with all the PS2 fixins that I wasn't expecting (including the smoke unit), then I figured I might as well put the PS1 in the E9 Railking loco and use all the lights and smoke with a PS2 board.

The tether and tether board are in the parts bag.  I'm assuming the Mux is the board that receives the tether that mounts in the rear of the engine?  So yes, I have that as well.

@harmonyards: I'll see if Midge can track anything down, although she didn't seem real optimistic for the worm shaft assemblies.  If you have any on hand, I'm ready to make a deal.  I can probably find a motor on the Bay or somewhere too, unless you have one good to go.

Thanks for your help, guys.  Going to get this thing going lickety split.

@Lou1985, @harmonyards:  I'm moving the discussion about the motor and parts back to here (versus hijacking the other thread about the Pittman motor replacement).

I haven't heard back from Midge regarding availability of the worms and shafts, but I did get a message from one of their techs about needing a couple of MUX boards for full PS2 capability.  I *think* those boards are in my parts bag that came with the engine, but even if they're not am I correct in thinking that they physical harness (which I do have) carries the stuff that is needed for the engine to function, the MUX boards are controlling some less important light features?  I wouldn't have a problem hard wiring the lights if I can't find Mux boards, especially if I have no control over them anyway running in conventional.

I plan on ordering a motor from Lionel during the 50% sale tomorrow, but if I can also pick up any other parts that I can cobble together that can still work, then I'd like to do so.  I can get a 30mm flywheel, but it appears that the original flywheel had the dogbone coupler integral to the flywheel.  Does Lionel offer something similar?

I can also see if there are any dogbones of the right length, but I'm doubting that.  Finally, of course, the worm assemblies with bearings. I'm thinking maybe there's a way to make these work from the Lionel part 6100:





What are the odds the dogbone is the same length and the worms are the same Pitch and pressure?

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Last edited by Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy

You’re gonna wind up having a fight on your hands trying to cobble together stuff from Lionel with stuff from MTH if you’ve never done this sort of thing before.....flywheel thickness, bore diameter, and how the coupler is installed on the flywheel will come into play ......finding an exact length dog bone that’ll work isn’t going to be easy.......you kinda have to be able to gauge what’s going to line up or not, before you just blindly buy parts that might not work......that makes the project 10 times more expensive.....

Midge is probably overwhelmed at the moment with everybody trying to do  the same thing you’re doing, plus she’s always busy with “normal parts orders” .....she’s always gotten back to me, so you may have to just be a little patient......

as I mentioned before, after Midge tells you what she doesn’t have, you may contact me, and we can go from there....don’t get the cart ahead of the horse, or you’ll learn the term X-pensive really quick buying a bunch of parts that won’t work....just attempting to save you some grief......

Pat

Last edited by harmonyards

Looking at the parts breakdown for the Lionel version: https://www.lionelsupport.com/...c6-94c2-2ca8b3baee31

It looks like the worms have the correct pitch. The bearings are wrong but can be changed. One word of caution: you'll want someone who knows how to set up the worms to verify they are correct/make any changes if necessary, otherwise you run the risk of stripping out the worm wheels on the axles. You can probably order the flywheel, motor, and dog bones from that Lionel S1 and be ok. You'll just need to add tach tape to the Lionel flywheel which is no big deal.

Jeff, I just read your questions from the other thread about Pittman motors, I’ll answer your question on here, so like you mentioned, we don’t hijack that man’s thread.....

if you plan on using the PS electronics, I’d think ( and somebody else can verify) you’d best stick with a 12 volt motor ....I’m not sure how the PS electronics will react to a 15.1 or even a 19.1V Pittman....you may or may not run into issues,....I can’t answer that question, as I’ve always used the appropriate voltage motor given the electronics package I’m using on hand....

the question of 12 volt or 15.1 is best left answered by somebody that’s attempted that swap, or knows it won’t affect the way the locomotive behaves....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Midge is probably overwhelmed at the moment with everybody trying to do  the same thing you’re doing, plus she’s always busy with “normal parts orders” .....she’s always gotten back to me, so you may have to just be a little patient......



Don't get me wrong, Pat.  I'm not complaining.  I'm actually surprised she's been able to communicate with me at all.  I only mentioned the Lionel route because if there any any useful parts I can pick up for 50% off, I'd like to do it.   And that sale only lasts until Saturday I think.  So there's a timing element involved.

I won't be buying from Pittman, I'll be buying a Lionel motor to use.

@Lou1985:  I'll be OK with swapping the bearings on the worm shaft and tinkering with the worm engagement.  But if the Lionel one is not a slam-dunk (like the motor will be) then I'm ok waiting to see what Midge can dig up.

Thanks for all the guidance, guys.

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