Sound in the tender. Currently using two 50 mm drivers, not Fatboys. This is still a work in progress.
Pete
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Lookin' good Pete, looks like you're pretty close to the finish line. 
I have hit a road block John. A few months ago I asked here if a Legacy R4LC could talk to a Railsounds 6 audio board. No one replied. Further reading some of the posts and also doing a lot of work looking at serial data on my scope shows serial data is different between early Legacy and current Legacy.
My R4LC can talk to RS4, RS5, and RS5.5 tenders but not RS6. The tender sees there is serial data present as sounds don't fire up on power up but it doesn't respond to any input. It responds as expected when coupled to a late Legacy engine.
I hope to have a definitive answer by York.
Pete
I see that the two that I have that use the RS6 board both use the RCDR TMCC board, so maybe there's something to your contention. I did get an RS6 board to work with the Legacy R4LC running it as a TMCC locomotive in my test stand.
gunrunnerjohn posted:I see that the two that I have that use the RS6 board both use the RCDR TMCC board, so maybe there's something to your contention. I did get an RS6 board to work with the Legacy R4LC running it as a TMCC locomotive in my test stand.
John, when running in TMCC mode was the R4LC connected by direct wire or through the optical devices used in the wireless tether. All my testing was done with a photodiode monitoring the IR LED. Thats is where I saw a difference in serial data. Interesting the RS 6 made sounds when dumbing down the R4LC instead of the other way around. The possible downside of that approach is giving up 200 speed steps to the motor driver.
The CV now crawls in Legacy mode.
Pete
It was a direct wire, it was on a diesel motherboard. I wonder if you need to invert the serial data?
I built an an inverter on advice from JonZ but it made no difference. Also tried both C02 and C03 R4LCs to no avail. I have a C05 on order. I hope to have my hands on an RCDR in a few weeks as well.
Pete
Well, the RCDR is used in both of the locomotives I have with RS6, so that would appear to be the ticket if the C05 version doesn't work.
Yesterday I tried posting a few more pics of custom parts that went into building this engine. Then my browser crashed 
. I like experimenting and trying different solutions where applicable.
Using optical devices as chuff triggers has been discussed in the past but installing them in most steam engines is rarely easy or reliable. Usually little of the backside of the driver is visible due to the frame design or other components in the way.
This engine lent itself to that approach. The wheels are held on with screws so can come off and be modified and there was plenty of space on the frame to mount a detector.
Here are the drivers before and after. The back was blanked off using .005" styrene and Avery Label material was used as the reflector. The data sheet for the Optek OPB607A sensor actually specified Avery Labels in its examples. Works well and has not skipped a chuff yet. I may even use smaller dots to give better smoke puff definition.
Then I had to make a bracket to hold the optical sensor.
Here is a pic of the bracket installed with sensor (center left) along with the fan smoke bracket made last year. Circuitry to power the detector and drive the fan motor is below smoke unit.
Also I had to make a bracket for the program/run switch and smoke on/off switch. This is mounted to the back of the frame in the pic above.
Pete
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Norton posted:D, it might be possible to use a DC motor with more torque than a Mabuchi RS385 but it would have to be quite short to fit on the existing motor mount. The motor I used is 61mm long. I have another Pittman that is 56mm long. I was hoping that would fit on the existing mount but even that is too long. Maybe someone makes a pancake motor that would fit?
Lionel is selling the frames with wheels for the Vision Hudson that might work. The mounting holes in the rear of the frame are located near the edge of the frame like my mod. You would still have remove the mounting posts in the body and glue in new mounts similar to what I did. It could be done with saws and files. Just take a bit longer.
Vision Hudson Frame.
Pancake motor similar to this.
http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/m...ilterCategory=ecflat
Maxon 200189:
Pete
I have a Lionel 6-18000 Pennsy Scale 0-6-0 Swicher with slope back tender......It too has a Pullmor Motor, and I was wanting to install a can motor. I saw one that was done with the Mabuchi RS 385, and I didn't like the cab being full of motor......
This pan cake motor might be the best deal, where I can still get done what I'm needing done, as well as, having the boiler back head, as I was wanting to do this motor change and back lighting the back head, not un like what 3rd rail does on some of their Steam Locomotives....
I want to thank you for posting your pan cake motor find, and info of where to purchase it from/supplier.........!
Maxon 200189 is the pancake motor part number, I need to replace the Pull Mor.........?.........Thanks Brandy!
Brandy, I just googled pancake motor for the picture. I can't help with a definitive source. One problem you might have is, pancake motors are much larger in diameter than typical cylindrical motors. Even if you find one the same diameter as the Pullmor consider that the Pullmor shaft is off center. The Pancake motor will sit lower.
This site is a great source for motors of all shapes and sizes. See if they have something that will work for you.
Pete
I see another problem to using one of the Maxon Coreless motors. (and possibly brushless). How to drive the things. I don't have any experience with the Brushless versions but I tried to drive a coreless Maxon with an LCRU and a DCRU and they did not play well together. The coreless motors when used with PWM need a much higher pulse frequency than any of the TMCC boards I have tried provide. I have not tried any Legacy driver boards. Has anyone tried driving a coreless motor with Legacy boards ? I have a dozen Maxon motors that are 44mm X 27mm and deliver about 50% more power than a Mabuchi 385 that is the same size. I would love to find a solution to using these with TMCC, Legacy or DCS. I know that the DCC manufacturers have addressed this problem so it can be done.
There is another possibility that I have been thinking about. Use two 385s stacked one on top of the other, or side by side, driving a spur gear on the worm gear shaft. You could play with the ratio between the motors and the spur gear to end up with virtually any final drive ratio you may want. The way Carl Tuveson modifies Flyer locos using a Spur and pinion gear with a Can motor gave me the idea. J
Interesting about Maxon motors. I have used a number of them to repower my HO engines running on straight DC. Haven't tried using them in O gauge stuff. You are right they do make much more power for a given size.
Pete
Pete, looking at a Pancake motor and how the shaft position would cause the lower edge of the motor to sit too close to any trailing truck has a solution. Back to the pinion and spur gear I was talking about you could use such an arrangement to raise the pancake motor up to provide clearance for a trailing truck. Now to get a brushless driver to talk to a R2LC or R4LC. J
JohnActon posted:Pete, looking at a Pancake motor and how the shaft position would cause the lower edge of the motor to sit too close to any trailing truck has a solution. Back to the pinion and spur gear I was talking about you could use such an arrangement to raise the pancake motor up to provide clearance for a trailing truck. Now to get a brushless driver to talk to a R2LC or R4LC. J
For a brushless motor don't you just need DC even if its PWM DC? If so a non Cruise DCDR would work or a DCDS Odyssey board with speed sensor should work. Its the motor driver than matters not the radio board. A Back EMF board would not work.
Pete
Pete -
Impressive upgrade; out of my league. I had forgotten this thread. I'm still wrestling (almost finished...?) with my former "ATSF" Warhorse, Mercury-version Lionel 5344. I'm down to scraping together the decals! Maybe final assembly will occur this week. Going to live with the Pullmor (the more you run it...).
Then maybe a J3a chuff project - right after I look into my suddenly bizarre-running Lionel USRA 2-6-6-2 - it has an early "Odyssey Lurch" gone wild.
Owning a lot means fixing a lot. Another reason to sell a lot.
Thanks D. I was going to followup with some of detail upgrades. I picked up a junk Williams Masterpiece Dreyfuss (Smithsonian sister) and retrieved some detail parts from it. They went into the cab. Being brass I wanted to solder the brake stand to the floor so I extended the apron into the cab. This had to be able to be removed to work on the backhead. This is what I ended up with.
The cab floor had two screw holes in the center section for something (??) so I soldered two screws into the floor for use as studs. Being soldered in I didn't need the screwdriver holes so they were machined off.
Also the backhead is very nicely detailed, especially considering its a mid '90s engine. It got a paint job. Flickering LEDs were added for firebox glow and white LED added for cab light although I may go back to incandescent. I don't care for the light pattern.
Here is a shot of the cab now with curtains thanks to MTH. Window "glass" are plastic microscope cover slips. Figures are Bowser.
The engine now runs smooth and slowly. Smoke output matches MTH's. I hope to pull at least ten 18" heavyweights, preferably 12.
Now to get sound to the tender.
Pete
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So far, so good Pete.
At first glance, I thought this was the silver Commodore, but seeing it's the dark metallic gray one makes this even more interesting. The mods you've done so far - especially the cab - look exquisite, and really make a huge difference on an almost 20 year old locomotive. The scullin disk wheels also look far better than the closed spoked ones.
Thomas, at least you have a choice on the wheels. You could replace these with actual spoke wheels from the 1990 700E. This is actually built on the Silver frame. I swapped bodies with the intention of selling an upgraded Silver one which came with magnetic couplers, wired tether and RS2. I knew I would be gutting the engine and the silver frame was a better choice. This may be sporting roller bearing rods someday. Mario is working with Shapeways to print metal ones. The CV was built with plain bearings and spoke wheels and later upgraded with Disks and roller bearing rods. i don't think the combination of Disks and plain bearing rods ever existed.
Pete
@Brandy re: pancake motor, see this thread:
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...98#75481396439244298
IMO a pancake motor is better suited to the transverse spur-geared locos like the 2036 and 2046. The work shown in the link above is the first time I've actually seen it done (and the motor used is of unknown quality.) Lionel LTI did basically the same thing when they introduced the 18606 in 1986, and I wasn't impressed by the performance of those late 1980s 2-6-4's.
For longitudinally-motored locos like the Hudson and B6 switcher, a "gear head" in front of the motor, or some variation as proposed by John Acton above would be a better way of lowering the shaft, and getting it closer to its original position. If additional gear reduction isn't desired, Pete's use of a double universal joint works great, and he had the skills to make a custom motor mount to hold a Pittman motor at the required angle.
