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Hello everyone!

After many years, two Christmas layouts built when I was in high school and another in college, its finally time to build a semi-permanent layout!  My wife and I recently purchased our first home and, luckily, for me, I've secured a nice spot in our unfinished basement.

I'm still in the early planning stages, but want to use this thread as my build thread over the, realistically, years to highlight the build and layout changes. As it stands, the layout will be sized around 10x16 and take a corner of the basement.  I just started using SCARM earlier this week and have somewhat of a hang of it.  I figure with a good amount of planning, I can budget out the costs of the materials and equipment I'll need to build it.  I'm still between Fastrack and Realtrax.  I do have a small supply of Realtrax handy, but I worry about future supply when MTH finally closes its doors.  The first layout I built in SCARM (which I'll go into later in the post) is using Fastrack.

My plan is to model a Western, PA setting in the time between the Steam to Diesel transition period, although I do intend to have more modern equipment as well.  My collection is largely P&LE and Union Railroad based (my great-grand father and grand father worked for them, respectively). I also have a few PRR, B&O, Amtrak, and Western Maryland engines.  I now live next to a CSX and MARC mainline, so I do expect them to make an appearance in the future.  I want the layout to have a steel mill scene, a city/small town scene, a river as a separator, and then a small town/residential scene.  I know these are some lofty goals, but I want to work to get them to fit in.

Now! For my first take of the layout and for some suggestions and help.  The first picture is largely what the roughed over view of the 10x16 layout space.  The dotted areas on the right, were originally if it were only going to be a 4ft space, but I have the ability to go 6ft.  I want to build it in modules in the event we move, or I need to move and reconfigure the layout.

The second picture is the initial take at the layout.  I was using the free version of SCARM and ran out of pieces.  I am planning to purchase the license in the very near future.  The areas in red are my problem areas.  These are where my track isn't lining up or is close, but there are no fast track pieces to fit the gap. The long straight along the back wall will be elevated.  I'd like to run the URR loop on the left up and under it. I've also been toying with a small mountain area around the turn on the right.  Again, this isn't fully finished yet and is my first take.  I know I need to finish the URR loop, and maybe even a small yard in that area.  I'm fully open to any thoughts/ideas you all may have!

Again, I'd like any thoughts you all may have.  I know there are some amazing layout designers out there and I'm an admitted newbie, so I may be missing something and thinking too inside the box.  This has been daunting, but I'm 1) up for the challenge, 2) want to learn some new skills, 3) be able to finally build a layout that I've been dreaming about since I was a teenager, and 4) give back to the broader O-gauge community in the future from my learned experiences.

Thanks for all of your help!

-Justin

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Last edited by Tall J
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You might want to look at a thread started by G3750 who is building the PRR Panhandle Division.  His aspirations are somewhat similar to yours.  You might also give serious consideration to using track that will still be manufactured in a few years.  Many here use Gargraves track (a lot of flex-track is used, but not by everyone) and Ross switches; some use Atlas track & switches; and many just use old fashioned tubular track and switches.  These manufacturers tend to give you more flexibility in planning because they offer more switch and complex track variations.

Next, read some threads and books on track planning.  I highly recommend Track Planning for Realistic Operations by John Armstrong (now on its 3rd edition).  There are also many other fora devoted to model railroading, most of which have a section about planning a layout somewhere therein.  Don't restrict yourself to O gauge or O scale because you will find great ideas in other scales.

Honestly, in my opinion only, you are trying to cram too much into the space you have for the time being.  Better to scale down and start like John Allen did with a masterful 4x8 oval that eventually became the heart and soul of a much bigger layout.

Chuck

PS  The trouble you report with Fastrack pieces not joining in a plan is a very common issue also dealt with in other threads here.  Many have overcome that issue, but it's work that isn't necessary with other types of track.  AND, Fastrack is very, very noisy.

Last edited by PRR1950

A few observations ...

1)  Your layout plan has a LOT of straight runs. Consider installing slight curves along the routes - Gargraves and/or Atlas Flextrack is great for that.  Gentle curves relieve "visual monotony" of long straight runs. Since the future of MTH is now unclear, their track products may (or may not) be readily available when/if you want/need them.

2)  Find an appropriate place for a double crossover; it will enable traveling from inner to outer loops in both directions.

3)  You showed a reverse loop that can reverse the direction of a train. Get creative with track planning to "hide" a reverse loop so it isn't "obvious."  Mere loops of track with trains moving in unchanging directions soon becomes boring.

4)  An upper loop could be designed with a theme; for example, an all-Christmas area with Dept 56 lighted porcelain buildings and figures. It would be a spectacle for your family and visitors at Christmas time. Some Dept 56 buildings are animated -- they seem like an "echo" of action accessories by Lionel and MTH. Fun for kids to watch!

5)  If you want to incorporate passenger service, create a "downtown depot" and a "rural station" or two so passengers have a reason to travel to/from those places.

6)  Create sidings for industrial buildings and action accessories; give your trains "work to do" just like actual RRs.

Just thinking out loud ... carry on!

Mike Mottler     LCCA 12394

Hooray! another URR fan in the MARC area! Here are a few thoughts, and comments.

1. I re-iterate what was said above about considering Gargraves. P&LE/URR means mills which also means industrial trackage. Industrial trackage is usually nor on a roadbed and often buried in asphalt/concrete/dust.

2. You would be hard pressed to find a straight tangent of track in the Mon Valley. If you did, a large steel trestle was probably involved. Curvy track rules the day

3. different railroads were often separated more by elevation than distance.

4. It was recommended above to hide reversing loops. Very true, although as "everything has a prototype" I believe there was at one point a loop at Browns Dump. (That would be the slag dump, not the current dump at the bottom that was once the great Century III mall 😥 )

5. In the "Amtrak" era, Both the Mon Valley line (PATTrain) and the Brunswick line had RDCs as part of their passenger fleet. Later they each used refurbed coaches (Former C&O and PRR respectively)  in push/pull service using F series diesels. Prior to that, either small B&O passenger trains or go big and run the Capitol Limited.

Given those items, My mind goes to this suggestion. Put a grade on each outer loop to gain some elevation for the back half of the layout. On the right side, continue the curve, to bring the mainline closer to the front of the table by a foot or so, then put a yard behind it. Perhaps model a Steel mill along the wall. The back part of the main can continue more or less to the left wall before dropping back down. Sort of a dogbone, with the left loop bent down.  I would put a mountain on the right side, and would find a way to put a small reversing loop or staging track for the URR in mountain. I would then have it switch onto the inner main in front of the yard, then switch back off as the left side was reached, to a spur for a slag dump

Yeah.. I know I hear people saying that mills were usually at water level, but Irvin works, on the URR, was on a bluff overlooking the Mon.



Attached is a very bad hacking up of your plan with some of some of my ideas.

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Justin, I'm glad you are starting to plan a more permanent layout.  You have a nice sized space for it.  I agree with the suggestions everyone gave above.  As Greg said it is nice to see someone else interested in the URR and P&LE.  Being from Butler County and living there again after a hiatus in West Virginia Western Maryland country, I model WM with an interest in the B&O.  Here in Butler we have the rolling mill turned carbon steel (Armco/AK) so I don't know blast furnace steel mills.  I like Greg's plan, and definitely agree with Chuck in recommending you check out George (G3750) PRR Panhandle 2.0 layout build topic based on Weirton Steel.  George has the room to go all out, but I'm sure there is a lot you can pick up and use.  He lives fairly close to me, so I have been to his place once, and he is a great guy!  I'll look forward to seeing your progress.

I have some general thoughts.    First, in any given space, an around the walls layout will provide more square footage for trains than a table top layout you walk around.     And with the layout against the walls, they can be used to expand scenery with backdrops for the good old PA hills, or for building facades - generally the rears since this usually faced the tracks.    So very large buildings can be represented with very little depth onto the layout.

You might want to also consider what  you want to do with the layout when you get it built.     It is really disappointing to put the last building in place and then think "is this all there is?".     Think about whether you want to just sit back and drink a cold one and watch stuff run round and round, or do you want to do something else like perhaps some operating including freight switching with car cards and waybills or a switchilst.     Neither idea is wrong, but how you want to use the layout when it is assembled does very strongly affect the track plan.   

Steel is big industry.   representing it mostly on the back drop is a big help in O. 

The mention of flextrack is very important.    Seriously consider it.    You want to learn new skills and working with flex track will require some.    However, the advantages of using it will be worth it.   You can be much more flexible in track planning and curve radius.    And brands such as Gargraves look so much better.     Also the less sharp switchers look better and cause less derailments.    And you can more easily put sidings closer together.

I'm not from Butler county, I am from Beaver County to the south.     However, I did work for Armco for the first 3rd of my career and went to Butler works often.    They did make steel, but as mentioned not in a blast furnace.    They had a large "new" electric melt shop.    A lot of their "charge" (or all of it) was scrap but clean scrap so as not to contaminate the steel grades.    They made STainless steel and electrical steel.    Electrical steel is made metallurically and then treated to be much more efficient for such things as motor cores and transformer cores.    It passes the current more readily because the molecules align, and it does not create nearly as much heat which is lost energy,     So modeling that operation, the melt shop would be pretty much enclosed and there are no blast furnaces.

A final thought, I model the area south Pittsburgh also - and rather loosely.     The line down the Monongehela Valley from Pittsburgh south was built as the Pittsburgh, Virginia, and Charlestown RR.    It was taken over and completed by the PRR in 1873 and rolled into the PRR in 1905 (30 years of operations under that name).    So if you are looking for another name, PV&C is a candidate.

I would definitely say take a second look at your track choice. I originally planned to use Atlas and didn't put too much thought into it but ended up switching to Ross switches once I started doing the track design for my steel mill. Ross has really awesome switches/slip switches/curved switches/etc. You can fit a lot more track work into a much smaller space. I bought some Atlas track before this happened so I'm still teetering between Atlas and Gargraves for the tracks. We'll see. Regardless, I would recommend you go back to the design table and see how much more you can accomplish with Ross.

Other than that, this looks to be a cool layout. Can't wait to see it come to life!

@prrjim posted:

I have some general thoughts.    First, in any given space, an around the walls layout will provide more square footage for trains than a table top layout you walk around.     And with the layout against the walls, they can be used to expand scenery with backdrops for the good old PA hills, or for building facades - generally the rears since this usually faced the tracks.    So very large buildings can be represented with very little depth onto the layout.

You might want to also consider what  you want to do with the layout when you get it built.     It is really disappointing to put the last building in place and then think "is this all there is?".     Think about whether you want to just sit back and drink a cold one and watch stuff run round and round, or do you want to do something else like perhaps some operating including freight switching with car cards and waybills or a switchilst.     Neither idea is wrong, but how you want to use the layout when it is assembled does very strongly affect the track plan.  

Steel is big industry.   representing it mostly on the back drop is a big help in O.

The mention of flextrack is very important.    Seriously consider it.    You want to learn new skills and working with flex track will require some.    However, the advantages of using it will be worth it.   You can be much more flexible in track planning and curve radius.    And brands such as Gargraves look so much better.     Also the less sharp switchers look better and cause less derailments.    And you can more easily put sidings closer together.

I'm not from Butler county, I am from Beaver County to the south.     However, I did work for Armco for the first 3rd of my career and went to Butler works often.    They did make steel, but as mentioned not in a blast furnace.    They had a large "new" electric melt shop.    A lot of their "charge" (or all of it) was scrap but clean scrap so as not to contaminate the steel grades.    They made STainless steel and electrical steel.    Electrical steel is made metallurically and then treated to be much more efficient for such things as motor cores and transformer cores.    It passes the current more readily because the molecules align, and it does not create nearly as much heat which is lost energy,     So modeling that operation, the melt shop would be pretty much enclosed and there are no blast furnaces.

A final thought, I model the area south Pittsburgh also - and rather loosely.     The line down the Monongehela Valley from Pittsburgh south was built as the Pittsburgh, Virginia, and Charlestown RR.    It was taken over and completed by the PRR in 1873 and rolled into the PRR in 1905 (30 years of operations under that name).    So if you are looking for another name, PV&C is a candidate.

prrjim hit all the points I would make, most especially regarding what you want to do with the layout once built.

Think about whether you want to just sit back and drink a cold one and watch stuff run round and round, or do you want to do something else like perhaps some operating including freight switching with car cards and waybills or a switchilst.     Neither idea is wrong, but how you want to use the layout when it is assembled does very strongly affect the track plan.

The Plywood Empire Route (a much smaller and less ambitious project than yours) evolved over time into a mostly switching pike because through experience I found this kind of Operating to be most interesting and satisfying for me. It is an around-the-walls layout and watching the train roll is part of the enjoyment but by now if I removed one track switch and turned it into a point-to-point Pike the PER would still retain most of it's character, charm and usefulness for me.

Phew! After a much too long hiatus, I'm finally getting back to the layout planning/building.  Thank you all for the great input.  I know this is going to be pretty ambitious, but I'm definitely up for the challenge.  To start, I've made some decisions in the planning and what I want out of the layout. 

  • Track: Gargraves.  I feel like this is going to be the better way to go.  I can use flex track, I can cut pieces to size to fit. 
  • Switches: Ross, although I don't have any of these on in the deign yet.  I'm open to suggestions on how to integrate a few between the lines.
  • Command System: DCS for now.  I still need to get a system, but I already have a Z-4000 and many Z-1000s.
  • What I want out of the layout: I want to have something with texture and layers.  I'm focused on having a nice urban area thats disconnected from a small town.  Its what I grew up with in the Mon Valley.  This means, I'm probably going to be a looper for the time being.  I also want to have a commuter rail line.  I have the MTH P&LE commuter set that I've ran nearly every year on my Christmas Layout.  I want to be able to connect the small town to the urban area with that.  In the scenery department I really want at least one area that looks like the Mon river along 837.  So I'm channeling some insights from Patrick H's layout.
  • Layout Design: Due to my space constraints, I'm not going to have room for heavy industry.  For that, I'm going to employ some backdrops, and flats.  There may be room in the future for some industry but thats TBD.  I also pulled a lot of inspiration for this from @David K. Simpson's design in his thread.  As soon as I saw the upper and lower level cross over, It made me realize this is what I want to do.  The "high-line" will be 6 inches above the table platform and use an MTH dual track bridge to cross over the "level route."  I'll start the incline about halfway through the curve on the urban side, and have it end the same spot near the town.  Also, I squeezed in 2 more feet of real-estate. Shh.  haha
  • Future Plans: Last night as I was looking over the plan, I realized I may want to work in a small yard/engine service area.  I could probably get 2 more feet of space off the side with the town.  I was thinking just a small 2-3 track area where I could tie off the commuter train and maybe have a few industrial trains that can run on weekends or between revenue runs of the commuter line.  Again, any thoughts on it would be super helpful!


I've attached the new layout plan and some pictures of the space I'm working with.  The one ground rule my wife gave me was she doesn't want it jutting out into the sightline when you look down the stairs, thats why I have the town section more blunted.

Let me know any of your thoughts!  I'm an open book!

Thanks!

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@Greg Nagy posted:

A few resources I forgot to mention yesterday:

PghTrainFanatic's Youtube channel - Western PA theme with a steel mill and a relatively small footprint.

DJ's Trains Youtube channel - CSX engineer that models and provides many resources for modelling the Mon Valley. Works in N scale but lots of useful stuff

Both of the links point to PGHTrainFanatic.  Is this what you intended to include for DJ's trains:  https://www.youtube.com/user/djstrains ?

Justin, Your room looks good.  On the last photograph it looks like paint is flaking off.  Is any of that area moist?  The narrower separation area between the city and suburban town is a good idea.  I think the track plan image is blurry, but my eyes make it blurrier still.  It looks like the rectangle at the right of center leads tracks over top of others.  To the left of that, there are some crossovers, but I can't tell if that is crossings at grade or a bridge.  Growing up and living in Butler County and going to college in Pittsburgh, I will look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I daydreamed a lot of years away without building much past benchwork before we would move somewhere.  Go for it and enjoy it and tear it up and do it again in 3 or 5 years!  My thought is 'Don't let DCS bog you down' - you have 3 independent loops so you can control each just fine with very little technology.  That said, you'll learn so much by doing!  Have a 'bias for action' vs a bias for planning, is what I have learned.  I end up modifying my plans almost immediately when I get into the physical world anyway!

You’re planning on the same bridge as I have in about the same position so I will tell you ahead of time it looks easier on paper than reality. The issue is the supports on either end. To do what you want (which is the same as what I wanted and did) you will end up with all kinds of clearance problems for the trains passing underneath. I had to get creative and adjust the angle of the bridge quite a bit. You have the top level drawn much better than I did but I think you’ll have to shallow out the S curve below. I spent many hours with the upper deck loosely in place while running cars and locos both ways on both lower tracks watching for both mid car and end of loco clearances. I had it where I thought it was perfect and then found out I couldn’t get certain locos to go over the bridge without hitting the sides! I guess my point is, I quickly found out the software will allow you to do many things that just won’t work in the real world. If there’s anything at all I can do to help or pics I can provide please don’t hesitate to reach out as I’d be happy to share my experiences and results. I’m far from the experienced experts here, but quickly realized how steep the bridge clearance learning curve is.

Thanks everyone!  I'm taking Dan's advice and going to bias towards action.  That is literally the kick in the pants I needed! 

@Mark Boyce, @Hannibal-St Joseph RR, and @Tranquil Hollow RR The paint isn't peeling, but we do have a humidity issue in our basement.  The previous owners didn't invest in good basement paint on the walls, so there are some sections that are turning brown.  In prepping the space, I'm going to get some Kilz or Drylock paint and recover the walls in that corner.  I have one dehumidifier on one side of the basement.  I'm thinking of getting at least one more for that side.  I'm also starting to get quotes for a full on water-proofing for our basement, but thats more of a long term thing now. 

@David K. Simpson Thank you for letting me know. I've been looking at the plan for a bit, I think I will straighten out that curve under the bridge.  I also want to build that area into a river crossing scene and I think some of the bridges on the bottom would look better straightened out.  I'm sure

@Greg Nagy Thanks for providing those links! And @Mallard4468, thanks for the DJ trains links.  I've followed PGH Train Fanatic for awhile, and was planning on using his Steel Mill flats (and still may).  I've been watching DJ's videos now all week.  haha.  Also, Greg, it's great to meet another URR fan down here!  My pap worked for the URR for 30 + years.  I spent many years going with him and my grandma to the URR picnics at Kennywood as a kid, hearing a lot of stories from the old timers.  I also have the Bulova Acutron watch he received as gift for his years of service. 

Thanks again everyone!  I'm excited to start the prep on the space and get building in the next week or so

Oh! And Let's go Pens!

Hey everyone!  I wanted to give a short little update.  My bias towards action didn't pan out as I wanted back in April because of some competing priorities with our house and life in general. 

I also have completely scrapped my track plan.  I think, for my first permanent layout, I was getting a bit too ambitious and my sizing requirements kept stretching to the point the CFO of the house said, "you're taking up too much of the basement" haha.   I bought the new OGR book on track plans and found one that literally offers me what I was looking for and is expandable to use my space better.  Huge shout out to @Ken-Oscale for putting all of these together! I've been looking at his plans for awhile now, but never stumbled across this one. I'm going to follow the plans for "The Southern & Pacific RR."  It fits the 16ft wall I originally had been planning on, and will give me room to move around it.  I'll modify some of it since I'll have a city on the left hand side, but I'm going to keep the small sidings and what not on the right to be an industrial area.  To keep with the Pittsburgh/Mon Valley theme, on the hill of the right, I'm going to put in some Steel Mill flats like its on the hill and make it look more industrial there.

I'm also thinking of doing a yard off of that side, down the rest of that wall, and curve it into an area that, right now, is just dead space.  I'm using RBPTrains layout as inspiration on that section.  In that area (which I'll still need to mock out), I plan on putting a little suburb area.  More plans on that in the future!



But things should be going vertical soon.  I'm going to build it in a modular fashion, so if I need to move it, or if we move, I can easily take it down too.



Thanks and happy Friday!



The rights to the picture I attach belong to OGR.  I hope I'm not violating any rules by posting a quick screenshot of the layout plan.

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Haven't been back to this thread for awhile, but please be sure to take care of any issues in the basement - paint (walls and floor), moisture (as Mark observed), electrical, and any other projects - before you start building.  As you design, be sure to allow for access to any pipes, wiring, ductwork, etc. that will be above the layout.  Depending on where you are relative to the stairs and mechanical items, be sure there's room to maneuver a new washer, water heater, or furnace into place.  These are all easy to overlook in the push to build a layout.

I like your idea regarding modular benchwork.  First layout in your first house - you'll almost certainly need to make adjustments down the road.

In addition to the many good layout threads that are mentioned above, a couple of YouTube channels by forum members who are working in similar spaces are:  https://www.youtube.com/user/JDStucks  and https://www.youtube.com/c/RBPTrains.

Keep up the good work.

@mowingman posted:

Nice layout, but I don't think you can put it next to a wall. The 4.5' depth is way too far to reach should the need arise. How will you get the those left and right back corners to do scenery, or rerail a train? I like the plan, but can not see building it against any walls.

Jeff

Thats actually a thought that hasn't crossed my mind.  My plan is to build it against a flat side wall and into a corner.  Luckily, can pull it out from the corner and leave a gap back there to get to that side of the layout.  Also, because of the modular nature I want to build this in, I've been kicking around the can on putting lockable/adjustable castors on the legs.  If I go this route, worst case would be I could possibly roll it out of the corner, fix the area, then roll it back. 

@Mallard4468 posted:

Haven't been back to this thread for awhile, but please be sure to take care of any issues in the basement - paint (walls and floor), moisture (as Mark observed), electrical, and any other projects - before you start building.  As you design, be sure to allow for access to any pipes, wiring, ductwork, etc. that will be above the layout.  Depending on where you are relative to the stairs and mechanical items, be sure there's room to maneuver a new washer, water heater, or furnace into place.  These are all easy to overlook in the push to build a layout.

I like your idea regarding modular benchwork.  First layout in your first house - you'll almost certainly need to make adjustments down the road.

In addition to the many good layout threads that are mentioned above, a couple of YouTube channels by forum members who are working in similar spaces are:  https://www.youtube.com/user/JDStucks  and https://www.youtube.com/c/RBPTrains.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks @Mallard4468!  I've been faithfully following JD Stucks and RBP on Youtube for the last few months to get some ideas.  We're also good going down the route of getting some waterproofing done on the front side of the house (where we have a few issues).  I'll be getting a bigger dehumidifier and putting our smaller one in my wife's office. We've been working on sloping the dirt away from the house, planting water loving plants, and draining out our downspouts away from the house.  So far, so good!

Electrical we're doing as a larger package in the basement (only have 2 outlets down there) now. The area I'm using is, thankfully, pretty free of mechanical items.  Its under the kitchen, but the only things over it are pipes going to the radiators, and water lines to the sink. It should be pretty accessible if any problems arise. Our plumber has told us every time he comes to our house, to never finish our ceilings.  haha

I am going to put in new lighting before I start building.  I'm feeling track lighting that is expandable and I can point the lights to reduce any shadows.  I can also use it to cover the other wall if/when I expand in that direction.



Hopefully, in the next two weeks, I'll be getting the lighting and lumber in (need to get some for a gate project as well)!

Thanks!

Putting the layout on casters is a good idea. I have a small layout in the garage for my grandson. I put casters on it and can roll it back into a corner of the garage, should I need to park a vehicle in there during a hail storm. When we want to use it, I unlock the casters and roll it out into the middle of the space. That way, we can access any side needed, in case of a derailment problem.

Jeff

Hey all! 

I wanted to give a quick update.  This week, the layout is about to go vertical!  I'm switching jobs and decided to take some time off between them to recharge, refocus, and shake off the burnout.  I figured this is the perfect time to get the area prepped, and start putting the benchwork together. 

The benchwork should be pretty straight forward.  I've been going back and forth between L-girder and a 2x4 grid base.  I decided to just go by 2x4s since I've done that type of construction before and I'm planning on building this in a modular fashion in case I need to move it or take it apart. The layout foundation will be 3/4in plywood.

My next decision is going to be using homosote or pink foam insulation as the base.  I've used Homosote before, but I want to add in some rivers, culverts, hills, etc., which makes me think foam is a better way to go.  I'm open to if anyone has suggestions on this.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm using the Southern and Pacific RR layout in Ken Hoganson @Ken-Oscale's layout planning book.  I'm planning on modifying it a bit, so I've been working on building it out in Railmodeller Pro.  I'm removing the sidings on the left hand side and in the middle, so I can work on putting together an urban scene on that side and some station/transition buildings to more industrial on the right had side.  I'm hitting a small issue though.  When I built the plan to the specs in the book, Its not fully connecting at some spots.  It also looks like the curves are a little off.  I don't know if this is the difference between Ken using SCARM and I'm using Railmodeller.  I attached a screenshot of my attempt from this morning.  I want to get everything ironed out before I go off and buy the first round of track for the outer loop this week.

Also, I've finally started to inventory all of the trains I have at my parent's house.  My grandfather used to buy me a set or engine or an engine every year for Christmas from about 97 through 2005.  After that, my parents kept doing that even when I went through college.  The rest of my family knew that if they needed to get me a gift, they'd just get me a train car or a gift certificate for a hobby shop.  So, this is what I'm currently going through.  I'm going to cull the herd a bit as I build the layout and bring things down to my house. Best way to get some new items is to part with some old items I won't use, right? 

Thanks everyone!

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Tall J, I hope the time between jobs does the trick for you.  Keep in mind 2x4s and 3/4 inch plywood will get heave if you make the modules very large.  Lots of folks have used foam like you are saying.  I have always used Homasote as a track base , cutting out it and even plywood for below track scenery.  The foam will help reduce weight though, for sure.

That is great you have so much from gifts through so many years.  Yes, now that you have matured, your interests have developed to a point, some of those items will probably stay in the box and not be used.  You have some work to do going through it all.  I have found this Forum to be the best place to find buyers who will work with you on price and are honest in their dealings.  Who wants to be black balled from the Forum? 

Hi Tall J, your plan is off a bit, which makes a difference.  The two end-curves should be symmetrical, but yours are at different positions.  One mistake I noticed, is that the left side of the inner-route straight-across (bottom-middle), bridging the middle:  You have only two 1-3/8" sections, while the plan calls for three (two extra in yellow, and one with the turnout in green).

And it looks like at the other end of that same bridging straight section, there are two 1-3/8" sections and a 1-3/4" section.

I used AnyRail, with the tolerance set tight.  So this should work better than you are showing.  I spoke with the AnyRail designer, and he actually measured FasTrack pieces and used those values in his software, rather than Lionel's published.  Manufacturing variances can cause a difference over a large number of sections.  So AnyRail can be very close to actual.  See if you can see what section I am referring to, and revise.

Because I was curious, I took apart the design, and re-assembled it with 1/16" tolerance, zero degree difference tolerance, and it assembled perfectly.

I tried the same diss-assemble and re-assemble, with 1/32" tolerance, and a perfect fit, with AnyRail.

Be advised, that your experience "on the ground" might vary a little bit.  For instance, I noticed that sometimes two 1-3/8" + one 1-3/4" does not match perfectly with a 4.5" section:  Lionel's variation.  Or China variation, if you would rather.

Last edited by Ken-Oscale

@Mark Boyce Thanks!  I'm officially on week 2 of it and have been able to put our classic car in storage, help my mom out around her house, and started whittling down the house project list.  Its like summer vacation all over again! haha. I was worried about the heft as well.  The sections should be manageable.  Ken's plans are great in showing the dimensions for what the tables are.  Right now, there will be two 4x4'6" sections and two 4x3'6" sections.  I also think I'm going to go with Homasote since I've used it before and its actually in stock at our local HD.  I'm also taking your advice.  Once I get everything sorted and what not, I'm going to use the forum to sale a lot of it first.  Then move on to that auction site or a train show.  I've also given some items to a friend of the family's 7 year old grandson who is more a train nut than even me! haha



@Ken-Oscale Thank you so much!  I knew it was probably a PICNIC (problem in chair, not in computer) situation.  I really appreciate how much time and detail you put into these plans and your book has been an absolute blast to go through and learn from.  I went through the plan with your notes and fixed all of the problems I was hitting.  I do see one or two tolerance issues.  After I went through it, I did find one area down around the cross-over on the right hand side on the inner loop.  I think its another tolerance issue, but when I put it together, I had to use two 1 3/4 sections instead of the three 1 3/8 sections.  Again, may just be a me issue.

Thanks again!

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Alright!  Time for an update.  Saws to wood, screws to pocket holes, we're on our way! I'm shocked that I was able to bring home the majority of the wood in my Grand Cherokee.  I missed having our station wagon, but the Jeep was up for the task!

As I mentioned before, I'm building this in 4 modules.  Two are 4'x4'6" and the other two are 4'x3'6".  I've got all of the base frames done, and all 20 legs cut.  The basement area is also all cleaned out.  After I blow/rake the leaves and chase the baby snakes out of our back yard, I'm going to bring the platforms in to the basement and start mounting the legs and plywood top, then Homasote.  I've actually hit my plan nearly dead on and have very little left over wood and wood waste!  Big win there.  Last things I need to figure out is the leveler/castor situation for the floor.PXL_20211129_175042406PXL_20211129_203121489PXL_20211130_185919904PXL_20211129_220412440

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I've also started purchasing track for the build.  I recently bought some off of a forum member.  So if you're selling some used Fastrack, hit me up!  I'll also be at the Greenburg Show in Timonium, MD on Sunday.  If anyone is going, let me know!  I'd love to meet some forum members.

One quick question.  I followed the template I used on my previous Christmas layouts, but I'm worried about the structural rigidity of the bigger modules.  I'm thinking of adding some additional supports in those sections.  I have some mock ups on one of the sections.  What do you all think? Is building it a little more like studs the way to go, or is there a better way to go about it?

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Thanks!  I'm hoping to get some more updates in soon.

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Looking good! You are off! I see you haven't painted the walls yet, but I assume you are planning to. A lot of guys paint the floor joists above black which makes the ceiling disappear. This is a bit of work though, and if you are planning on eventually selling the house, maybe not advisable. A drop ceiling is ideal, but I completely understand the desire to get something running.

Last edited by Will

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