Power Supply - Need Advice

There are not many two train transformers made except for a post war model; the Lionel KW 190 watts with two speed control handles and whistle control, also accessory output voltages separate from the speed control handles.

Also I almost forgot there is the American Flyer post war two train transformer, lower voltage output to track then the Lionel ZW.

There are several four train transformers made; the post war ZW, the ZW-C, the ZW-L by Lionel.

MTH makes a two train transformer with two accessory outputs; the Z-4000.

I have the post war transformers by Lionel with up dated circuit breakers added after the terminal outputs. Also I have two MTH Z-1000 transformers that work with almost any brand of engine.

Lee Fritz

An inexpensive option is a KW. Get one refurbished or in good working order. Then you can add a breaker and TVS,shown here

LINK

For bell whistle you can add an external one,shown here

LINK2

The KW would run from I imagine between $50 and $100.

Making the bell whistle controller and adding 2 breakers and 2 TVS units maybe another $20.

Another solution is to just get a second CW-80. Wire the 2 commons together. I think "A" is the common on those. Make sure they are in phase. Wired that way they  basically function the same way as one transformer would electrically speaking.

Modern 2 train transformers, such as the MTH z4000 are nice but you are looking at $400. The new ZWL is in the stratosphere price wise. Really overkill for what you are doing.

BTW, some MTH engines do not like the CW sine wave. Not a problem if you just run Lionel.

Dale H

Al,

I simply use multiple CW-80s and achieve the same effect. I have two mailines with cab control and all of the power blocks can be run of either CW-80. I ave a third powering my elevated line and a fourth under the layout powering all my switches and accessories.

This solution doesn't put everything in one package but is better for multiple operators (read my son and his friends) and is still much cheaper than a ZW-L or Z-4000.

hope this helps,

Jay in Ottawa

I have to agree with Dale about the price of the new transformers. What do the companies thing we are made of, gold?

I do not know anything other then the price on most of the new transformers however I get sticker shock just to look at the price.

That's why I am using the older Lionel transformers with added on breakers and TVS units.

Lee Fritz

As Dale and others have mentioned the MTH Z4000, I bought two used ones a few years back.  Not more then $250.00 each and the first one included the wireless conventional controller.  I purchased a second remote system, "used" new in package for around $75 two years ago.  The remote set is cool, if I remember correctly, it'll control 3 separate Z4000s.  If you're not in a hurry, you might find a decently priced used 4000 with or without the remote that can always be added later.

I agree, the prices are enough to choke a sane person.  Glad I got them before I went out on disability, as I would not be able to afford them now.  Best of luck to you Al.

MTH has the instruction manual for the remote (under support).

Z-4000 Remote Commander System
Product Item Number:  40-4001
http://mthtrains.com/40-4001

The Remote systems can still be found.

I run with multiple CW-80s for two independent loops that have an insulator between the loops so trains can go from one loop to the other and both be controlled independently by one or two operators.

This may be the cheapest option since you already have 50% of what you need rather than buying a more expensive dual control transformer.

As always, with multiple transformers you want to double check the phase which is easy to do.  If your CW80 is from 2006 or newer and you by another one similar, they should be phased correctly with each other.

The chopped sine wave of the CW80s makes post war and conventional locomotives smoke better than traditional sine wave transformers.  However, its been reported that it sometimes has issues with earlier MTH locomotives.

If what you are running now works with the CW80, then you are good to go.

Honestly, I would say, start with two Lionel 180W bricks.

Then either go the MTH route and get either DCS or whatever the other product is, or, go the Lionel route, and get the latest PowerMaster that works well with TMCC and Legacy, and then the new Legacy CAB-1 and new Legacy Command Base.

That way, you can change your mind if you want to go command control, or stay with conventional engines.

Those 180W bricks are modern UL listed items with fast acting circuit breakers. You will never be wanting of more power. If you want cut costs, split one 180W to two devices. I had some spares a while ago, but I gave them away from free.

I am not really familiar with the "other" MTH way.

Not at all. The PW type transformers are fine,assuming they are in good working order. One of the Lionel external add on bell controller is similar to the diode circuit I linked. I think they use 7 diodes in theirs and reverse polarity with a switch. 

The CW is modern,I don't have one but assume it has a fast acting breaker. A TVS is need if modern equipment is run regardless of transformer..

Dale H

The CW-80 can only supply 5 amps maximum and cuts power extremely fast if there is a short.   Its faster than any normal circuit breaker or fuse I put inline with it (and since don't bother anymore). It will also remain "off" until the short has been cleared.  There is also fold back circuit when exceeding the maximum output it can produce.  Overall, its a really good modern starter transformer if you get 2006 or newer.

Its too bad that the early CW-80s got a bad wrap with being wired backwards (out of phase with standard wiring conventions), not working properly on 50 Hz, and not compatible with many MTH engines.  Most of these issues have long since been resolved, it has proven itself quite capable if you can live with the 5 amp limitation.

Since the original author already has one that works with his fleet, getting another one would be the one of least expensive options to give you dual control for conventional control. 

He can always still use them at full throttle with Legacy or DCS should he in the future want command control or use Lionchief.

VegasTrains,

  Al as usual I look at this in a completely different manner.  What many people fail to understand is that the DCS unit will run all your conventional trains from the DCS hand held remote control, which you seem to be pointed toward with the comment in your initial post.  IMO the old KW or ZW transformers set up properly, especially with the DCS, is the way to  go.  Being able to run your conventional engines via the DCS hand held remote control is seriously cool.  With the ZW you get 4 different Channels, with the KW you get 2.  I have several of both these old transformers, and they work seriously well, especially for the money expended.  Jim has a real nice 275 ZW for sale in the For Sale Section of the OGR, and his upgrade with the diodes makes it a real winner of a transformer, he does real good upgrade work, I have one of his upgraded ZW's myself. 

Never under power your layout, always leave room for expansion.  The older transformers are definitely the cost effective way to go.

PCRR/Dave

One more option is the MRC Dual Power

MRC gets no love here, but go with the 270 watt version:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRC-DU...;hash=item234f9b371c

It allows you to toggle back and forth between two separate loops with same handheld controller or you can plug in a 2nd controller.

Interesting. I like mine....