I am in the process of restoration of a rough early 260 E.    The E unit or reversing unit I am told is a two position.  The wires were all messed up and when I tried to operate it came to a dead short. I am starting from the beginning.  I have two questions you will see in the photo.  One is the point contact mounted on top of unit that I do not see a function. I do know when the field is activated the bottom arm is drawn down but the contact is not open.   Also their is a switch that mounts to the inside cab. No wires hooked to anything.  I do not find a (chugger unit in this train is it possible that's its use? I have the unit switching  but have not finished wiring till I can find information on these extra pieces. HELP?   Roy O

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The metal plate is pulled down when the field is energized and opens the contacts that ground the coil to the reverse unit.  It was meant to prevent spurious activation of the reverse unit during a very brief power interruptions to the locomotive.  When the field is de-energized (no power to the locomotive), the contacts close so that the reverse unit coil energizes when power is applied.  The switch in the cab is wired in series to the hot side of the coil to disable it when operation in one direction is desired.

Jon G TCA 95-41020

Independent Lionel Service Tech

MTH Service Technician at MTH

Question is the contact tab bent too low as it makes contact all the time? The other pictures show it bent up higher just how much higher other than that the other photo with similar reverse unit shows no contact plate and wiring on top of the unit and terminals for lights. mine is on backside and no lamp terminals anybody understand?  wiring diagram shows only to ground one side of the field coil. Do I do that or attach it to tab on top? You have all been great help and I thank you. Roy O

The metal tab should contact the copper contact when de-energized, but should open when the metal tab is pulled against the field.  The copper contact can be bent to achieve this action. Gravity closes the contacts when the field is de-energized.

Jon G TCA 95-41020

Independent Lionel Service Tech

MTH Service Technician at MTH

After a complete rewire and brush etc clean. Tested and it work s should.  Originally wiring looked a mess and was. when first tested it was a dead short as I removed all wiring and completely rewire. Thanks to all your help. One thing I did notice it took a lot of power from the transformer to get moving and it did run good. Did the old trains need more voltage? This checks out to be a 1931. All my small pre war engines like 262 252 etc run a little faster. concerned as I do not have body on or tender. That will be a much longer process. Many thanks again for help and info.   Roy O

MY opinion of the flopper is if activated that opens ground to coil .  Built for intermittent operation I think not. reason once power is interrupted and then back on it will energize the coil and put you in reverse. My way of thinking? Stone age way to prevent coil overheat and damage. Sure is a good thing they did away with it.  Roy O

Roy O posted:

After a complete rewire and brush etc clean. Tested and it work s should.  Originally wiring looked a mess and was. when first tested it was a dead short as I removed all wiring and completely rewire. Thanks to all your help. One thing I did notice it took a lot of power from the transformer to get moving and it did run good. Did the old trains need more voltage? This checks out to be a 1931. All my small pre war engines like 262 252 etc run a little faster. concerned as I do not have body on or tender. That will be a much longer process. Many thanks again for help and info.   Roy O

I have found that many early prewar motors need a higher voltage.  You need a transformer that puts out at least 22v, but 24 is better.  My 10E needs the 24 volt transformer.  I use a Type A, which has 24v max.  Unfortunately the knob is turned counter-clockwise to increase speed.  That's counter-intuitive and I sometimes instinctively turn the knob the wrong way when there is a problem.  Postwar transformers that go to 24 volts are the Q and R, but not RW.  V and Z will give you 25v.

mlaughlinnyc posted:
Roy O posted:

After a complete rewire and brush etc clean. Tested and it work s should.  Originally wiring looked a mess and was. when first tested it was a dead short as I removed all wiring and completely rewire. Thanks to all your help. One thing I did notice it took a lot of power from the transformer to get moving and it did run good. Did the old trains need more voltage? This checks out to be a 1931. All my small pre war engines like 262 252 etc run a little faster. concerned as I do not have body on or tender. That will be a much longer process. Many thanks again for help and info.   Roy O

I have found that many early prewar motors need a higher voltage.  You need a transformer that puts out at least 22v, but 24 is better.  My 10E needs the 24 volt transformer.  I use a Type A, which has 24v max.  Unfortunately the knob is turned counter-clockwise to increase speed.  That's counter-intuitive and I sometimes instinctively turn the knob the wrong way when there is a problem.  Postwar transformers that go to 24 volts are the Q and R, but not RW.  V and Z will give you 25v.

No, this should not be the case. Yes, a 10e is a Standard Gauge engine and will need more voltage than an O gauge 260e. However, my 390e standard gauge engine runs fast at 16 volts and just fine with a ZW. If your motor requires high voltage, it is probably dirty. I have soaked many pre-war engines with CRC cleaner. You should see the gunk that comes out. The bearings and gears can get dirty, too. Sometimes you need to use a tooth brush or swab to get gunk out. Then the engine needs to be re-lubricated. A 260e at 15 to 16 volts should be flying around the track. 

Using more voltage than the engine was made for can fry your field coil and possibly even your armature. One guide, the motor should not be getting hot. It should only be a little warm at best.

George

George thanks for the info did like you said and it runs fine. The junk of a reversing unit works when it wants but always will go forward.  Reverses when it feels like. LOL. I talked with Jeff Kane at train tender and he says he has some rebuild parts. I asked for information how to rebuild it and he showed me one he had and said removed screws I replied, mine is rivet together. I tried to buy it but he did not want to part with it. He is a super guy to talk to and buy parts. He has a amazing inventory and great help on old wiring diagrams. His inventory of lionel, pre and post war. Also some MTH and AF. I recommend him to everybody. That's jeff@ttender.com WWW.ttender.com on the web  Phone him he always answers 585-229-2050.   Roy O

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