prewar af o confusion

IMGP2692IMGP2693IMGP2694hi,i have these two great little guys one is the 425 the other I would guess is a 426 ?,per the book the trailing truck on the 426 ? (on the right) looks correct,but seems to ride to high,,are they correct ? should both loco's have the same leading /trailing truck ? need some valve gear for the one on the right,thanks as always ,terry

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Same loco, one is from 36-37 and the later one is 38/39 ish.  The 425 is later, it should have an E unit in the cab.  Gregg, aka Northwoods Flyer will probably be along with  more info, but that is generally it.  The change in numbers would seem to match the move from Chicago to New Haven when AC Gilbert bought AF.  Check out the catalogs loaded on the Eli Whitney AC Gilbert site, will be helpful as well.

Dennis Holler If its old and broke, I like it

Well here I am, thanks to the third major snow storm in the last 2 weeks.  This one is predicted to dump 8" - 11" inches of snow by the time it winds down tonight, and then the winds will be blowing.  It seems like most of Central Wisconsin is shut down. My agency is closed today, so this makes it a perfect day to talk and play trains.  

I am not sure that I will be of much help but I wanted to provide some additional information. 

I use Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge by Alan Schuweiler as a basis for most of my research.  So let me quote a few passages.   The guide categorizes Flyer's Steam Engines by boiler type.

The engines that Terry and Dennis are discussing are Type XVI.  Let me quote from page 91:

Type XVI (1938 - 1940)

Catalog Nos. 423, 425, 4615-4, 4615-6

All 4 of these engines share the same boiler.

A third new type of die-cast locomotive was introduced in 1938, in both 2-4-4 and 2-6-4  wheel arrangements.  They were cataloged as "Heavy Duty" engine in combinations No. 4615-4 and  a Northern Pacific engine in combination NO. 4615-6 respectively.  Both came with the older No, 3301 die-cast semi-Vanderbilt tender (Type VI), and both had "AMERICAN FLYER"  decals below the cab window.  The 4615-4 engine has large drive wheels, similar to the ones used on the contemporary Union Pacific, Atlantic and Hudson engines.

Image result for American Flyer 4615-4

4615-4 borrowed from Google Images

 

Image result for American Flyer 4615-6

4615-6 borrowed from Google Images (only vestiges of the white paint on the running board remain)

snip...

These engines returned in 1939 with American Flyer's new numbering scheme ( edit: because of the transition to the Gilbert era), 423 and 425, in combinations No. 424 and 427. (They do not follow the typical system of two digits above the engine-only numbers, since American Flyer used both 423 and 425 as engine only numbers.) The 423 used the old Type IV coal tender,

American Flyer Steam Loco

423 and tender borrowed from Google Images    Binns Road site

while the 425 continued to use the die-cast semi-Vanderbilt oil tender, which was rubber stamped "AMERICAN FLYER"

photo of my engine

Combination No. 427 returned in two sets for 1940, the final year that American Flyer would catalog any of the older non-3/16-inch-scale locomotives.

So Terry,

IMGP2692

Your engine on the right should be a 2-6-4.  The trailing truck should be like the one on the left. The one that is on it is an American Flyer trailing truck but not used on this engine. It looks like it has been going through a restoration, so perhaps the truck was swapped out.

Dennis' catalog page is from 1938 with engines from the 4615-6 numbering era and I think that the white stripe on the running boards was only used that year.

I hope this helps with the confusion and doesn't add to it.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

                                                             

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Well here I am, thanks to the third major snow storm in the last 2 weeks.  This one is predicted to dump 8" - 11" inches of snow by the time it winds down tonight, and then the winds will be blowing.  It seems like most of Central Wisconsin is shut down. My agency is closed today, so this makes it a perfect day to talk and play trains.  

I am not sure that I will be of much help but I wanted to provide some additional information. 

I use Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge by Alan Schuweiler as a basis for most of my research.  So let me quote a few passages.   The guide categorizes Flyer's Steam Engines by boiler type.

The engines that Terry and Dennis are discussing are Type XVI.  Let me quote from page 91:

Type XVI (1938 - 1940)

Catalog Nos. 423, 425, 4615-4, 4615-6

All 4 of these engines share the same boiler.

A third new type of die-cast locomotive was introduced in 1938, in both 2-4-4 and 2-6-4  wheel arrangements.  They were cataloged as "Heavy Duty" engine in combinations No. 4615-4 and  a Northern Pacific engine in combination NO. 4615-6 respectively.  Both came with the older No, 3301 die-cast semi-Vanderbilt tender (Type VI), and both had "AMERICAN FLYER"  decals below the cab window.  The 4615-4 engine has large drive wheels, similar to the ones used on the contemporary Union Pacific, Atlantic and Hudson engines.

Image result for American Flyer 4615-4

4615-4 borrowed from Google Images

 

Image result for American Flyer 4615-6

4615-6 borrowed from Google Images (only vestiges of the white paint on the running board remain)

snip...

These engines returned in 1939 with American Flyer's new numbering scheme ( edit: because of the transition to the Gilbert era), 423 and 425, in combinations No. 424 and 427. (They do not follow the typical system of two digits above the engine-only numbers, since American Flyer used both 423 and 425 as engine only numbers.) The 423 used the old Type IV coal tender,

American Flyer Steam Loco

423 and tender borrowed from Google Images    Binns Road site

while the 425 continued to use the die-cast semi-Vanderbilt oil tender, which was rubber stamped "AMERICAN FLYER"

photo of my engine

Combination No. 427 returned in two sets for 1940, the final year that American Flyer would catalog any of the older non-3/16-inch-scale locomotives.

So Terry,

IMGP2692

Your engine on the right should be a 2-6-4.  The trailing truck should be like the one on the right. The one that is on it is an American Flyer trailing truck but not used on this engine. It looks like it has been going through a restoration, so perhaps the truck was swapped out.

Dennis' catalog page is from 1938 with engines from the 4615-6 numbering era and I think that the white stripe on the running boards was only used that year.

I hope this helps with the confusion and doesn't add to it.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

greg ,thanks I have that book ,was just out of sight of the pix,,,i thought the trailing truck was wong,,will look for  the proper replacement,,,terry

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