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I have a Lionel  Prewar 712 observation   car with  4 wheel trucks  .. And want to convert to 6 wheel trucks. Any chance anyone knows if a 2226W prewar tender trucks that have 6 truck wheels on them .. will fit  they look like they would but I don't know  .. Or if anyone knows if Lionel prewar used them in any other cars or?

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I love 700 series coaches, they're among my favorite tinplate cars! I own several sets.

I don't own any 2226W tenders, but I do have a few 263W tenders attached to some of my MTH Lionel Corp engines. I looked at some 2226Ws online and they look extremely similar to the 263W tender trucks with the exception of black journals. I took down my command-control Crescent Limited 263e and my vintage Lionel 712 to compare the trucks for you.

MTH 263e versus vintage 712

The only difference I see here is journal color and the couplers. The box coupler mechanism on the MTH repro looks extremely similar to the ones I saw for the 2226W when I checked them out online. It hooks around the axles so you could take it off or add it by removing the wheels from the truck.

MTH 263W tender versus vintage 712 truck

Someone with an actual 2226W on hand can confirm this, but it appears that prewar 6-wheel trucks only differ in journal finish and coupler style. Hope that helps!

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  • MTH 263e versus vintage 712
  • MTH 263W tender versus vintage 712 truck

Thanks for the info!  .. What I have are Rich Art Trains 712 Observation

I did find  the 6 wheel prewar copper trucks for from our friend Jeff from the Train Tender...

I won't know until the parts come to see  if when Rich Art Trains made them he designed them to fit either 4  and the 6 wheel truck . Because I have read he made them both ways  time will tell thanks!

I hoping he made all his shell the same .. Time will tell...

I had no problem removing 4 wheel trucks from RichArt 700 series passenger cars & replacing them with original Lionel 700 series 6 wheel trucks.

This is the 4 car RichArt set with 4 wheel trucks as I received them:

I removed the 4 wheel trucks from the RichArt set & the 6 wheel trucks from the original Lionel set & restored the beat up Lionel trucks so as I could use them on the RichArt set:

This is what the RichArt set looks like with the restored Lionel 6 wheel trucks:

I put the 4 wheel RichArt trucks on the beat up original Lionel cars for a future restoration project:

I bought the beat up Lionel set through an auction from one of the large auction houses with the intent of using the trucks for the RichArt set.

Once again, I had absolutely NO problems switching the original Lionel trucks over to the RichArt cars without modification.

Hope this helps.

Ken

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Last edited by LIRR Cannonball
@Rob English posted:

6Wheel trucks (Orig or MTH) will not fit 4 wheel cars without modification of the cars... or the truck. The turning stop stamping was modified on the original 6 Wheel cars due to the larger bolster stamping of the 6 wheel truck.

This really got me to thinking as I had always thought that the 4 and 6 wheel trucks were completely interchangeable. Time for an analysis!

I started by fishing an extra 800 series truck out of my parts bin and carefully removing one of the non-power trucks from my vintage 700 series cars and putting them side by side. As I suspected, the trucks are the same height and use the same wheels and axles.

6 wheel 712 and 4 wheel 800 series comparison

The turning stop tabs for the 800 series truck and the 6-wheel truck line up, although they seem to be cut off on my cars (and there are no slots for them in the frame). The MTH repro cars that I have do have these tabs intact, inserted into guide slots in the frame, so it seems they may or may not be present on any particular set.

6 and 4 wheel mounting tabs

I also have an 8-wheeled set of 700 series cars. They have been very heavily customized by a previous owner who was much more skilled with Bondo than I am (my only addition was to finish wiring up the lights!). I am not 100% sure if these trucks are original but they seem to fit pretty well on the cars' frames.

custom 700 series in orange

These 4-wheel 700 series trucks are very tall and have enormous Standard Gauge sized wheels, although they are certainly O Gauge in width. I think these would have looked at home with the 256 which is itself a very tall and impressive locomotive. Interestingly, they have a narrower top section than the 800 series or 700 series trucks. My cars do not have tabs but if they did, they would not fit into the same slots as the 800 series since the diameter is different. The mounting post is meant for a washer and cotter pin instead of an E-clip but seems to be the same diameter and just a tad longer.

4 wheel 712 versus 4 wheel 800 series

What I would conclude is that 700 series cars can have regular height 6 wheel trucks or the taller 4 wheel trucks, with or without turning stop tabs. In any case it appears that modifying the truck (bending or removing tabs) would allow it to fit on either frame since the mounting posts are similar.

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  • 6 wheel 712 and 4 wheel 800 series comparison
  • 6 and 4 wheel mounting tabs
  • custom 700 series in orange
  • 4 wheel 712 versus 4 wheel 800 series

I had no problem removing 4 wheel trucks from RichArt 700 series passenger cars & replacing them with original Lionel 700 series 6 wheel trucks.

This is the 4 car RichArt set with 4 wheel trucks as I received them:

I removed the 4 wheel trucks from the RichArt set & the 6 wheel trucks from the original Lionel set & restored the beat up Lionel trucks so as I could use them on the RichArt set:

This is what the RichArt set looks like with the restored Lionel 6 wheel trucks:

I put the 4 wheel RichArt trucks on the beat up original Lionel cars for a future restoration project:

I bought the beat up Lionel set through an auction from one of the large auction houses with the intent of using the trucks for the RichArt set.

Once again, I had absolutely NO problems switching the original Lionel trucks over to the RichArt cars without modification.

Hope this helps.

Ken

So you have them all!!  I have been keeping an eye out for those red 700 series RichArt cars, especially the 709  and 711.  I made an impulse buy of the mth 6 axle red 710 set from Side Track hobbies a few years back ( 2 x 710 coaches and of course the 712 observation).  I found the single extra mth coach after about a year and a half of internet searching and phone calling.  It took the mth archives going to auction for me to finally snag the separate sale baggage car!  O well, I'll snag them one of these days

I have only switched the trucks as I have never needed to use other parts on RichArt trains. I like the 6 wheel trucks much more than the 4 wheel trucks.

So I cannot factually say all parts are interchangeable, although I suspect they are.

You can look on the bottom of the frame for a large letter "R" which will tell you it is a RichArt piece.

mceclip0

Ken

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wow, IM going to relook when I put my 6 wheel truck on but I did have everything apart and did not notice any stamping like that.

However I did see  a magic maker with some markings on them  you can tell everything looks newer not aged .

The wire used for pick up and the window shades and clear are perfectly newer looking..

thanks for letting me know about yours

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