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Hello everyone.  I'm new to the forums and really just getting started with train matters.  I just inherited my dad's old prewar Marx train set, Engine 391.  I am refurbishing it and just got it to work after sitting 40+ years.  The set doesn't have a lot of track with it so I am looking to see if Lionel 0-27 track is compatible with the prewar Marx 3 rail track.  I have the uncouplers and other switches I need for the original Marx track, so I am looking for info on the curve and straight track.  Can I mix the Lionel track with the Marx and will it work.

Also, one more question.  The copper plate on the Engine that touches the center track to make it go is really worn and half broken.  Is there an easy way to replace this copper tag and does anyone know where to purchase or have it repaired or replaced?  I'd like to purchase and do myself but it may be over my head.  The picture is prior to refurbishing the engine and getting it to run on the track.

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  • 20151206_074842: Under carriage Marx Engine 391
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The Marx and Lionel pins are slightly different, but I think that you can make the Lionel 027 pins work. Look up Marx333 on the forum member search and shoot him an email. He uses Marx and Lionel 027 together. Look at the photos of his old layout on his thread.

He has the 802 curves and metal and plastic base switches in Marx. The rest is Lionel 027.

Welcome to the forum. Your engine should work fine on Lionel 027 tubular track - in fact, this track was so inexpensive that I ended up using it for my entire layout.  The only thing I would check with your engine is the 027 switches (or turnouts) you would think about using, to make sure your engine can clear them.  Enjoy your refurbishing. BTW, i just saw a spool of thin copper that would work for your project at my local Ace hardware store/

Duksnfish posted:

Thanks for the information, but, here in Idaho Falls, even at Hobby Lobby, I cant find the thin copper that I need to do the work.  Does anyone have a source that I might find some?

Thanks

Duksnfish,

if you can give me a better pic of the bottom of that loco, I think I have that entire unit

in my parts box. If it is the same as the one I think I have, you can have it.

It came in a box of parts from my father-in-law. when he died, my mother-in-law gave me all

his unused parts.

Thanks

Popi

Duksnfish posted:

...  Also, one more question.  The copper plate on the Engine that touches the center track to make it go is really worn and half broken.  Is there an easy way to replace this copper tag and does anyone know where to purchase or have it repaired or replaced?  I'd like to purchase and do myself but it may be over my head.  The picture is prior to refurbishing the engine and getting it to run on the track.

not easy to tell by the picture, but it looks like you only have a single pickup with the rear pickup completely missing.  the Robert Grossman link you got is the best source for replacement Marx parts.  with the rear pickup, again from the picture, it's hard to tell if you have enough of the fixed copper "spring" that keeps the shoe in contact with the track, so that may be a problem.  if you get the part, it's a very simple repair.

photo tip, especially with P&S cameras... avoid white backgrounds!
the camera is going to balance the shot making the dark areas very dark.

good luck...gary

i was dumping photos off my camera this morning, so i took a quick shot of a prewar pickup...

prewar pickup

i popped off the front shoe which took about 5 seconds.  with the pickup off, you can see the fixed copper strip which bends up to form a spring keeping the floating shoe on track.  this piece sometimes breaks off which is what i was referring to.  as you can see with the rear pickup, these shoes do wear over time.

again, good luck...gary

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  • prewar pickup
Last edited by overlandflyer

ok... didn't see your new pictures before i posted the last response.  you can probably see now that you are missing the entire rear pickup shoe.  this is the situation where the bent down spring piece can get snapped off so i wouldn't run it until you get a replacement, though while you're at it, i would replace both and keep the worn spare around in case you run into another repair situation.

cheers...gary

Question about Marx 0-27 and Lionel 0-27:  when I was a kid you could only find Marx in stores around this time of year, so I bought Lionel 0-27, found year around in hobby shops,  to expand my layout, with no notice of any dfference.  As for wider radius, Marx did make and include in some sets 0-34, which made possible parallel curves/double track loops.  All of these are interchangeable, except, of course for the curve radius you want.

Duknfish

You can easily make the pickup from a piece of tin can.  Or if you want to get fancy and go to the trouble find a piece of brass shim stock at a auto shop or machine shop.  It should be about the thickness of the other pickup.

From your picture I can see you have an older Marx engine driver wheel, one that has the gear teeth to the outside edge of the wheel flange.  If you want get a switch you will have get older Marx switches that will pass that flange.  Most Lionel and most ever yother switch will not pass that old Marx gear flange.

The best one I have found is the Marx 1590 switch.  It does not have plastic frogs like some other Marx switches, is cheap and easy to find and very reliable.

Here is write up touting it.

http://dfarq.homeip.net/2013/0...iling-marx-switches/

and

http://dfarq.homeip.net/2004/0...nel-trains-together/

I have 27 of these switches on my layout, many in use for over 25 years.  I never pay more than $5 a pair at train shows (TCA) and even had a guy at at show give me 10 of them.  I have had to replaced only one or two in all those years.

 

Charlie

 

 

 

Last edited by Choo Choo Charlie
Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Duknfish

You can easily make the pickup from a piece of tin can.  Or if you want to get fancy and go to the trouble find a piece of brass shim stock at a auto shop or machine shop.  It should be about the thickness of the other pickup. ...

prewar pickup shoe

the prewar pickup shoe (copper) is quite a complex little piece that needs the shape to function properly.  the flexibility of the material needs to be great enough to allow the part to mount yet strong enough to hold shape in operation.  imo, not a very easy task for homebrew construction.

Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Duknfish

....  Lionel and most ever other switch will not pass that old Marx gear flange. ...

L1024sw

the Lionel 1024 manual switch (O27) will work with Marx single reduction drives.
in Flyer, their #665 (manual) and #688 (remote) switches (O40) also featured the same pivoting frog construction.

cheers...gary

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  • prewar pickup shoe
  • L1024sw
Duksnfish posted:

The engine, Marx 391, has two points of contact, a front and back shoe.  The back one is the one that is in need of repair/replacement as it wont move over the track joints going backward, it catches and has one side broken.  A couple of new pics are attached here.

I have that part. email me your address

mjones@gblions.org

and Ill mail you the part, no charge!!

overlandflyer posted:
Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Duknfish

You can easily make the pickup from a piece of tin can.  Or if you want to get fancy and go to the trouble find a piece of brass shim stock at a auto shop or machine shop.  It should be about the thickness of the other pickup. ...

prewar pickup shoe

the prewar pickup shoe (copper) is quite a complex little piece that needs the shape to function properly.  the flexibility of the material needs to be great enough to allow the part to mount yet strong enough to hold shape in operation.  imo, not a very easy task for homebrew construction.

Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Duknfish

....  Lionel and most ever other switch will not pass that old Marx gear flange. ...

L1024sw

the Lionel 1024 manual switch (O27) will work with Marx single reduction drives.
in Flyer, their #665 (manual) and #688 (remote) switches (O40) also featured the same pivoting frog construction.

cheers...gary

There is a flat spring under the pickup piece that provides the flexing.  See the spring in your picture of your post of 12/17/2015.  The pick up piece has a slot in one end and a key in the other end that allows it to move. 

The pickup piece can be cut from some tin can stock with small tin snips.  It may have to be made in two pieces.  The slot can be made by drilling several small holes.  A Dremel Moto grinder with various bits and cut off wheel can be helpful.

 

Charlie

Choo Choo Charlie posted:
overlandflyer posted:
Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Duknfish

You can easily make the pickup from a piece of tin can.  Or if you want to get fancy and go to the trouble find a piece of brass shim stock at a auto shop or machine shop.  It should be about the thickness of the other pickup. ...

prewar pickup shoe

the prewar pickup shoe (copper) is quite a complex little piece that needs the shape to function properly.  the flexibility of the material needs to be great enough to allow the part to mount yet strong enough to hold shape in operation.  imo, not a very easy task for homebrew construction.

Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Duknfish

....  Lionel and most ever other switch will not pass that old Marx gear flange. ...

 

There is a flat spring under the pickup piece that provides the flexing.  See the spring in your picture of your post of 12/17/2015.  The pick up piece has a slot in one end and a key in the other end that allows it to move. 

The pickup piece can be cut from some tin can stock with small tin snips.  It may have to be made in two pieces.  The slot can be made by drilling several small holes.  A Dremel Moto grinder with various bits and cut off wheel can be helpful.

 

Charlie

the flexibility i was talking about is how the shoe needs to be pliable enough to mount having to stretch over the end of the fixed part of the pickup and then snap back into shape.  if the material is too thin or too flexible it will probably fall off in short time, especially if it is rear pickup.

to be fair, i didn't say it was impossible.  i once replaced the alternator bracket in my TR6 with part of a screen door hinge but that was because a replacement part (a simple L-shape piece of metal) would have set me back ~$30.  the door hinge was free and only required drilling one hole.

cheers...gary

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