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48 replies

Prewar Dealer Displays?

027Ted027TedOGR Forum Member

Hey fellers,

 

I just discovered prewar tin and purchased a pretty cool old set with a 252, 2x 529 and a 530. Nothing will be restored short of one wheel on the loco and a bent coupler. Yes, all four loco wheels will be replaced lol... 

 

Anyhow, I am kinda a caboose freak and want to add an 807 as the tail end Charlie. Would it be sacrilegious to restore an 807 to match ie olive and red paint and nickel journals?

 

This is the cat I think would work...

 s-l400

 

 

Next, I can't seem to find any prewar dealer layouts that this set could have conceivably ran on. Does anyone have any pics showing a possible prewar layout say 1922 to 1936 or so?

 

Thanks

 

Ted

 

s-l1600 [1)

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M MoonmanOGR Forum Member

I have scratched the surface of studying Dealer Display Layouts. My answer is there were no factory layouts for pre-war.

 

The Dealer Display Layout were a "new" marketing idea and approach to increase sales in the retail stores in the '50's.

 

email forum member jagrick and you could contact Bob Osterhoff at trainpaper.com.

 

A guess would be that some stores may have set up their own loop in a window.

First paragraph    and this  a few store window photos

 

You get the idea-the display to sell trains was developing.

 

 

CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member

"A Collector's Guide and History: Advertising and Art, Volume VI" has some information.  It's been a while since I looked at mine. I think there is quite a bit on Prewar, but it is mostly advertising. There are some store displays, and perhaps a few layouts. I think the layouts were offered for consumer sales, not specifically as store displays.

Here is a link

Last edited by C W Burfle
RM ron mOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by 027Ted:

Hey fellers,

 

I just discovered prewar tin and purchased a pretty cool old set with a 252, 2x 529 and a 530. Nothing will be restored short of one wheel on the loco and a bent coupler. Yes, all four loco wheels will be replaced lol... 

 

Anyhow, I am kinda a caboose freak and want to add an 807 as the tail end Charlie. Would it be sacrilegious to restore an 807 to match ie olive and red paint and nickel journals?

 

This is the cat I think would work...

 s-l400

 

 

Next, I can't seem to find any prewar dealer layouts that this set could have conceivably ran on. Does anyone have any pics showing a possible prewar layout say 1922 to 1936 or so?

 

Thanks

 

Ted

 

s-l1600 [1)

 

027Ted027TedOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by ron m:

You might check with your local hobby shop to see if they have anything on early train displays.

 

Ron M

LOL Ron, there first has to 'be' a hobby shop... This here is South Dakota. Corn, beans, bovines and hogs we got millions of, hobby shops, 2. Neither could be called train havens. We had three but that useless Hobbytown USA thankfully vacated.

 

The upside is that I found very vague reference to a possible dealer display as early as 1936 but no details... the search continues.

 

Ted

RM ron mOGR Forum Member
If all else fails — Google - best layouts and store displays.
 
Ron M
 
Originally Posted by 027Ted:
Originally Posted by ron m:

You might check with your local hobby shop to see if they have anything on early train displays.

 

Ron M

LOL Ron, there first has to 'be' a hobby shop... This here is South Dakota. Corn, beans, bovines and hogs we got millions of, hobby shops, 2. Neither could be called train havens. We had three but that useless Hobbytown USA thankfully vacated.

 

The upside is that I found very vague reference to a possible dealer display as early as 1936 but no details... the search continues.

 

Ted

 

Last edited by ron m
RM ron mOGR Forum Member
Lionel was offering operating displays in 1923.
 
Ron M
 
Originally Posted by Moonman:

I have scratched the surface of studying Dealer Display Layouts. My answer is there were no factory layouts for pre-war.

 

The Dealer Display Layout were a "new" marketing idea and approach to increase sales in the retail stores in the '50's.

 

email forum member jagrick and you could contact Bob Osterhoff at trainpaper.com.

 

A guess would be that some stores may have set up their own loop in a window.

First paragraph    and this  a few store window photos

 

You get the idea-the display to sell trains was developing.

 

 

 

027Ted027TedOGR Forum Member

Hey guys, I changed the title of this thread to reflect that I am looking for Dealer Display information. We have a cat here on the forum that recreates Lionel Dealer Displays but I can't remember who it is. 

 

Maybe the title change will attract him lol and I can learn even more...

 

Ron, do you have a reference to anything going back to '23? I can't find anything at all that old..

 

Ted

johnstrainsjohnstrainsOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by 027Ted:

Hey guys, I changed the title of this thread to reflect that I am looking for Dealer Display information. We have a cat here on the forum that recreates Lionel Dealer Displays but I can't remember who it is. 

 

Maybe the title change will attract him lol and I can learn even more...

 

Ron, do you have a reference to anything going back to '23? I can't find anything at all that old..

 

Ted

You are probably talking about "Jagrick."  He posts here frequently on Dealer Displays.

 

Here's a recent thread, but there are several others.

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...ealer-display?page=1

 

 

CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member

I leafed through my copy of the TM book on advertising and art. There is a  reprint of a one page Lionel dealer display layout brochure. It shows two layouts, along with an option to buy just the decorated board (no track) from one of them.
It is in the section titled "1930's". There is no date, but judging by the text and what is shown, it certainly is prewar.

There are a number of other dealer display items, but not with running trains.

 

There may be more in the book, I only took a quick look.

 

The CTT magazine looks interesting. I wonder whether it is still available.

RM ron mOGR Forum Member

Lionel first pictured their Lionel Scenic Railways in the 1922 catalog (page 2). Listed were the 177 and 178 "0" gauge pieces and the 183 (5' x 12') Standard gauge unit.

 

The 1923 catalog continues with and again promotes the Lionel Scenic Railways to dealers plus has this verbiage "Many Lionel enthusiasts who saw our Scenic Railways in windows and stores last year purchased them after they served the dealer's purpose as display pieces."         

 

In the 1924 catalog they introduced the 198 "0" gauge and the 199 "Standard" gauge dealer's "Scenic Railways."

 

Ron M

JagrickJagrickOGR Forum Member

Prewar displays at first were simple loops of track even in Lionel showrooms. Others were quite grand and Lionel's emphasis was still Standard gauge at this time. Later prerwar started emphasizing O gauge more and then more displays were forthcoming. This is one from the mid 30's and was showing off the )27- When I get home I will see if I can pull up some other examples from my paper files. 20140717_151340_resized [1)

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027Ted027TedOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Jagrick:

Prewar displays at first were simple loops of track even in Lionel showrooms. Others were quite grand and Lionel's emphasis was still Standard gauge at this time. Later prerwar started emphasizing O gauge more and then more displays were forthcoming. This is one from the mid 30's and was showing off the )27- When I get home I will see if I can pull up some other examples from my paper files. 20140717_151340_resized [1)

Thank you and please do post more if you have them!

 

Ted

RM ron mOGR Forum Member
Here's what Lionel was offering in 1922:
 
 
Ron M
 
Originally Posted by 027Ted:

Since it seems that usable pictures of prewar 'Dealer Displays" or 'Scenic Displays' are so hard to come by I relented and looked at the D-264 postwar display.

 

Here is my rendition in pure vintage O-27. 

 

Opinions?

 

Ted

D-264 I

D-264 II

 

1922 dealer display

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JagrickJagrickOGR Forum Member

This is a photo of a recent auction item of a Lionel prewar dealer layout. I can't find the rest of the pics I down loaded and I was wondering if anyone on here had saved any of these. I am going to reproduce this layout this summer as shown. I know it has been don but nat with original construction techniques, I will be doing with same metal work mountains and such as well as the pons made to hold water--any pics would be appreciatedyiuuyiuu

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FM Former Member
027Ted posted:

Since it seems that usable pictures of prewar 'Dealer Displays" or 'Scenic Displays' are so hard to come by I relented and looked at the D-264 postwar display.

 

Here is my rendition in pure vintage O-27. 

 

Opinions?

 

Ted

D-264 I

D-264 II

I've always thought this track configuration to be one of Lionel's best for a small space.  The over and under route offers alot of running while also some switching.  I like that you included an outer loop.  A passenger train can run continuously here while a freight can do all it is supposed to in the center area.

JagrickJagrickOGR Forum Member
Dan Padova posted:
027Ted posted:

Since it seems that usable pictures of prewar 'Dealer Displays" or 'Scenic Displays' are so hard to come by I relented and looked at the D-264 postwar display.

 

Here is my rendition in pure vintage O-27. 

 

Opinions?

 

Ted

D-264 I

D-264 II

I've always thought this track configuration to be one of Lionel's best for a small space.  The over and under route offers alot of running while also some switching.  I like that you included an outer loop.  A passenger train can run continuously here while a freight can do all it is supposed to in the center area.

Definitely the right idea on your track plan. Lionel did a good job of making simple layouts look complicated. And although often had multiple switches in the track plan they were not needed or used to run the trains except in the D63 cityscape where the switches were controlled by relays and track trips.

WillWillOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Jagrick posted:

This is a photo of a recent auction item of a Lionel prewar dealer layout. I can't find the rest of the pics I down loaded and I was wondering if anyone on here had saved any of these. I am going to reproduce this layout this summer as shown. I know it has been don but nat with original construction techniques, I will be doing with same metal work mountains and such as well as the pons made to hold water--any pics would be appreciatedyiuuyiuu

I know this post is a couple of years old, but did you ever make this?

WillWillOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Wow, Jagrick, love these! Some are pristine. Are some of them reproductions? I dabbled in reproducing dealer displays in the 90s, including a D-133 (like the one you have). Also fancy train cabinets.

Right now I am making an o gauge pre-war table layout, very loosely based on the one in Tim Holland's book. Lionel catalogued a lot of "layouts" and "scenic railways" but I don't know how many were actually produced.

WillWillOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Jagrick posted:

Yes my reproductions as I have only seen the transformer display and none of the rest. I am working to reproduce the display table of prewar O and Std gauge60C47DA5-EED4-4F68-AA96-283F5B40124A

It's going to be a beauty. What are the tunnel portals? Homemade tin? My layout has paired bridges as well- the low ones. I'll dig out a photo.

IMG_8099

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JagrickJagrickOGR Forum Member

They are original lionel tunnel portals offof a pair of original tunnels (original display used these. Project got sidetracked as was out of space!! But moved all if my postwar into a separate building and now have a prewar floor in my garage (upper level).
Looking into getting a cnc router to reproduce some more dealer display items

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