Problem with Cab Light - Engine Fixed!

Added video of the cab light problem.  I have seen this issues before on exact same model but on 3 different engines.  At the end of the video, I hit the reset button multiple times but it does not sound right.  If anyone has any insight on this cab light problem, I would appreciate any information you can offer.  Ken

Here is post of someone's else same engine where the cab light is working properly...  The rule 17 lightening turns off the cab light when it begins to move and turns the cab light back on when the engine stops.  I have ES44ACe that does have cab light that does work properly like the engine in this video.  

I'd contact Lionel and see if they have any insight.

Ken, if you can get your hands on one that is working properly, match up the wires from each.  My thoughts are something is switched on the plugs.  Your engine is an early Legacy with modular boards.  I have a junk Virginian shell that may have the wiring in it to look at.  I am not home but will look when I get home.  I have 5 of those with the modular boards and will go for the wrong wire possibility.

That engine is not fun to put the shell back on with the modular boards.

If you have a similar locomotive of the same general vintage, you could apply Marty's solution to checking between a working one and the non-working one.  I think he's probably on to something with the mis-wiring, the behavior is certainly very odd.

Marty and John

Thank you for both for your replies.  Lionel customer service, Dean, has been very helpful in helping me in trying to get to the cause of the problem.   

This is where I am at.  Dean told me to trace back the cab light wires to the mother board where they are connected.  He thinks the problem is here.  He said the Driver controls the cab lighting.  The wires connected to the connection on the board say lighting.  Is possible that wires are crossed and I need to switch them?  They are the orange wires in the photo.  If I attempt that is there any possible harm that can be done with the swapping of them if that is not right?

I asked Dean these same questions, but I am waiting for his response.  I also asked him if the board could be the problem?  However, if I do swap the wires, how can I remove the wires from the Molex connector properly?  I know the pins have to be removed somehow without pulling the wires out of the pins.  This is learning experience for me and I don’t have experience with Molex connectors.

Ken

I would not willy-nilly swap the wires, you could do more harm than good.  I'd be patient and let Lionel get back to you, they have the best information on the wiring.

Taking the wires out of the JST plugs is pretty easy, so when it's time to actually do it, here's the technique.

Hold the connector on the bench with the latch side up, that's the side with the little tabs.  Using a very fine jeweler's screwdriver, gently lift the tab up about 20 degrees from horizontal and pull on the wire at the same time, the pin will slide out.  To put them back in, you just push them into the connector and they latch.  Just be careful not to get carried away lifting the tab too high, they will break if abused.

It is confusing when he says driver controls lighting,  That usually means Motor driver board.  Which typically doesn't have connection going to the mother board to drive items, but this may be an odd engine.

Still funny you got two like this.  G

G

It might be the terminology he was using.  Driver board meaning motherboard. I went back to the email where I asked him to clarify what he meant..."I believe you will find it is terminating at the driver board".  

I also saw another video on YouTube with exact same engine with this same problem.  Hopefully, as Marty said above it will turn out to be a wiring issue.  Unfortunately, I don't have another engine like it to compare it with. 

Ken

The fact that two did the exact same thing screams out wiring error at the factory.  I can't believe that Lionel hasn't gotten more traffic about this engine.

FYI, those white connectors are Leoco.  Black are Molex.    If Dean does not get back to you in a day or so, I will open one of my engines for you.  Dean is a very smart tech and knows the product very well.  FYI, Dean is now the man in charge of Customer Service.  Phil moved up to work side by side with Mike.  Do you have another R4LC you can swap in? 

Ken,  I was talking to Marty about this, and he thought the source of voltage to the Cab Light is from the R4LC via the MOther board, but the grouding (or control) of that light has to come from a logic that knows what the motors are doing.  So the terminaltion may be the Motor DRIVER board to ground the light based on what the motors are told to do.  Moving lights out, stopped, lights on.

So one wire may come from Mother Board (where R4LC is), and the other goes to the 10 pin connector on the Motor Driver board.

Don't know for sure, but that is my thoughts on it.  Not a lot of documentation on this for the public, so Dean and Lionel are going to be the best source, and of course Marty when he opens his engine.  G

In your pic above the two orange wires that are on the J3 connector are for cab lights. One is ground and the other is hot. It don't matter if they are reversed. You might have a short to power or a bad radio R4LC. If you have another R4LC radio board I would try it. Also check the ground lights, do they operate properly, how about the ditch lights.

Bill

Marty & Bill

Unfortunately, I don't have another R4CL board.  Bill, the ground lights, ditch lights, reverse light work correctly.  It is only with the cab light.  Neal did say that this engine does not have rule 17 lighting feature...my mistake from my initial post.  However, the cab light should turn off when the engine moves.  I would assume that the I should be able to turn off the cab light with the legacy remote too.  Right now I can't.  Again, Thanks for your help.  I will let you know what I find out from Neal.

Ken

Well, If it comes from Mother board and R4LC then the R4LC must be coded to output on at rest and off in motion.  Since no control sounds like it may be a bad R4LC.

I have one in stock with S03 code which yours calls for.  G

Marty, FYI the JST exact replacement for the Leoco connectors are commonly available.

Update:  I did not hear anything back from Neal today to determine if I need to look at the wiring to see if there is problem with it or replace R4LC board.  I appreciate everyone's input here.  I hope to be able to resolve this problem soon. 

Ken

Ken, have you considered using an ohmmeter to trace out where the light goes and what pin (if any) on the R2LC it goes to?  If the R2LC controls it, I'd guess it would go to pins 5-6 as those are the smoke output.  Since the smoke for Legacy is controlled by the voltage regulator, those pins are unused for the original purpose, and could be retasked for the cab light.

John

I was hoping to get little bit more information from Neal about weather I should consider replacing the board or if there is any possibility this could just be wiring problem.  This actually is the 4^th same model engine I have seen with this problem.  Knowing about this problem, I gambled when I purchased it but I was hoping it would not have this issue, but I lost my gamble! 

In terms of getting this fixed, this might be getting above my capabilities with my limited experience and understanding.  If I need buy a board and swap it out I can do that if it will solve the problem..  If it gets more complicated, I probably need to ship this engine off to one of you guys to help solve problem if any of you are willing to look at it.    I was trying to avoid having to ship it to someone, but at same time I understand my limitations and surely don’t want to do damage to the engine by taking risks with the wiring.  

I am open to suggestions to what to do next.  Thanks

Ken

Ken

Did you do a factory reset using #2 for diesel.(1 is for steam)?

Truthfully, the fact that multiple engines have exhibited the same issue, I'm leaning more to a wiring issue than a bad board.  Both are obviously still possible, but more than one fairly new locomotive doing something odd like that seems to indicate it's something else.

According to the User's Manual for the 6-28344, the reset is just reprogramming the locomotive ID, although it couldn't hurt to try the ALT code that Bob suggests, #2 is the code for many similar vintage Legacy diesel locomotives.

Update:  Engine is Fixed!!!   Cab light works as it is supposed to.  Bob was correct!  Thank you, Bob!!   Page 23 of the owner’s manual that came with the engine outlines how to do Factory Reset.  The online owner’s manual is different than one I got with the engine.  I thought I did this the other night, but I think I may not have done the last 3 steps properly.  

-You have to put the Engine in PGM position. 

-Press ENG and enter locomotive ID.  

-Press Set

-Press ENG and enter the locomotive ID again

-Press Aux1

-Enter 2 for the diesel locomotive.  

Using the Reset Button on the Legacy Remote obviously does not set everything back to factory defaults.

I apologize to everyone for dragging you through this problem when it was a simple fix.  Again I appreciate everyone’s help.  Thank you for your patience in helping me work through this.  I have taken this engine apart numerous times in the past few days, but this has been a good learning experience for me! 

Ken

Ken, Glad you got it fixed. When you told me you had reset the engine, I assumed you were using the reset procedure.  G

George, the manual on the Lionel site just says to reset using the ID, nothing about the ALT1-2 step.  If you followed that one, you wouldn't have gotten it running.

John, That may be true, but we did discuss this is Modular not the latest RCMC Legacy and he does have the actual manual.   Always a good thing to read.

R2 and R4LC do require a # for the reset.

Also goes to lack of revision control for Lionel.  I always look at dates and his engine was 2010 modular, but the instruction was listed as 2012 and actually came up as a 1/13.  Even parts display wrong sometimes when a model has been reissued.  So you do have to be careful.  But hey, everything on the Web is true right?  G

Excellent point George, there does seen to be a lack of version control.   I also wondered about the fact that there was no secondary config step.  Silly me, I believed the manual.

GGG,

   George you mean we really should be reading the instruction manuals, as Doc Holiday said, How Lewd!

PCRR/Dave