Problems with the motor of a MTH/Lionel Corp. 263E (traditional)

Try unsoldering the leads of the e-unit from the motor . Then add jumpers to the motor to see if it works independently from the e- unit. If it does you need to rebuild the e-unit

I "hot wired" my test transformer directly to the motor contacts (with the e-unit connected). No change.

I just tested the commutator with a multimeter. Between 2 of the plates, I get close to 2 ohms. The other two combinations yield a value of 17 ohms. Do I have a bad armature?

Since you added weight the motor is drawing more amps.  One thing to check is the wiper contacts on the E unit drum for burnt wipers due do too much amperage.

Charlie

Clean the commutator segments of the armature with Naphtha and check the resistance readings again.  All readings should be within a few tenths of an ohm to each other. The readings you got suggest a bad armature.

Larry

Try using a soldering iron to heat up the point on the armature segement where the wire is attached. It might be that running it hot may have melted the solder and you have ended up with a dry joint. In fact run the soldering iron all of the terminations .

If your readings are correct, there is a lot of resistance on one winding of the armature. Like UKFlyer said, remelt the solder on the commutator solder lugs. The other thing I would check is the brush springs. They may have weakened from the heat of a overworked motor.

Chuck,

I will try the remelt on the lugs. As for the springs......they don't seem weak at all. In fact, the brush plate on this motor is very strange. The brush spring wells are mounted UNDER the brush plate and the springs are at the bottom. Every pullmor I've worked on has the springs at the top. The tension is much lower when on top. So, for awhile I thought the plate was upside down. Pushing on the brushes while the motor was running did not really effect it's operation. 

It's definitely those lugs. I could see carbon around the 2 gaps in the commutator plates between the plates that had high readings. The numbers started out around.....2, 84, 84.  After I did the remelts, it was.......2, OL, OL.  So, it made it worse. 

Well, no way around it then, its going to need a new armature. I checked the MTH site, and the armature is not available, but only as a whole motor unit, which they have for 115.00 + shipping. Maybe you could call Midge an ask if by chance they would have a armature by its self.

Or you might want to check out the cost to have your armature repaired - folks such as The Motor Doctor offer armature repair/rewinding services, probably cost less than a whole motor, I would think.

I would have a go at taking each wire off it’s commutator tag and removing as much solder as possible from it. Then wrap the wire back around it and get some needle nose pliers and just squeeze it tight, then run some new solder back on again. I have just done this to a similar problem on a Flyer PA diesel armature and it ran fine again.

While you are at it make sure you clean any old oil/carbon gunge from the commutator slots as this will cause problems as well.

Do you have any pictures so we can have a look at it?

You have nothing to lose if it went faulty.

UKA,

I'd try that, but I don't have a gear/wheel puller or a press to get the attached gear off/on.   I'm thinking about having it rewound. 

I’m not familiar with the armature but do you have the armature out of the motor?

You mentioned you had put a soldering iron onto the tag(s) and it didn’t work, does this mean that you don’t have much space to put the iron on the tag and just wind off the wire?

is it possible to post a picture of it?

When I say wind off the wire I mean just off the tag not unwind the complete pole 

UKA,

I had to try it with the armature in the motor. It's got a gear on the end (which if this was a cheap PW engine, I'd pop it off with a screwdriver). Not going to take this one off without the proper tool. But I just spoke with the Motor Doctor and he's capable of rewinding the armature (and increasing the winds for more torque) and possibly do a rewind of the e-unit if required). So, rather than go new armature or new motor, I'll go that route. Aside from it's looks......I'm not really liking this engine. When you give up the Proto 2 or 3 to go "modern" you give up all pulling power and traction. It is what it is.

ROGER1 posted:

I just tested the commutator with a multimeter. Between 2 of the plates, I get close to 2 ohms. The other two combinations yield a value of 17 ohms. Do I have a bad armature?

I was about to check on your traction progress.

Check to be sure it isn't 1.7 ohm. But I agree it is armature time. There should be about 2ohm on each. The more equal, the smoother it can run. There should be no contact from plates to shaft as well. (echo)

Adriatic,

Thanks for keeping tabs. It's been fun working on this. Hopefully, it will be salvaged and maybe end up being a better runner than it is.

ROGER1 posted:

I just tested the commutator with a multimeter. Between 2 of the plates, I get close to 2 ohms. The other two combinations yield a value of 17 ohms. Do I have a bad armature?

 This is a pullmor motor ? I am not familiar with the motor on the 263e however reading resistance on a big stack pullmor from a Hudson through the brushes it reads about 2.2 ohms the field reads 1.1 ohms since they run in series the static resistance of the motor would be around 3.3 ohms.  Try this,  connect one end of the field to one of the brush wires or to the brush guide. Now connect a wire from a transformer to the other end of the field. Then set the transformer to 9-10V then touch the second wire to the second brush guide. Let us know what happens.  if the field and armature are good and the brushes are clean and sliding freely in the guides the motor should run. Something I was unclear about in your description was it sounded like the spring was between the commutator and the carbon  brush.   I'm sure you know that is not correct.  I often wish this site had a sketch pad.        j