Product number inflation - Lionel's new 7-digit numbering system

And this is important or disturbing.........WHY??

Lionel announced this at the April 2018 York as they have ran out or are close to running out of 6 dash numbers.

Change is hard for some but keeps happening anyway.

NYC 428 posted:

And this is important or disturbing.........WHY??

It's very important. It enables us to tell at a glance whether or not an item is a scale item.

-Greg

The method to the numbering seems like a good plan, even if different than what we are used to.

I think the previous point where things became much too random was when they started with anything other than a "1" in the 5th digit.  i.e., when 12xxx used to always mean accessory, 11xxx used to mostly mean a set, etc.  Once we started with 22xxx, 38xxx, etc (and even some leading with a "1", like 14xxx), it became much more random.

If something is purely identical, it would seem silly to renumber it just for the year.  So I'm guessing the bumper example cited above will not result in a 19aabbb number for next years catalog, and then a 20aabbb number if/when cataloged in 2020.  (at least I hope not!)

Actually, to the point of a lot (all?  I didn't review to check) of the 2018 vol 2 items starting with a 19, that seems wrong to me, but it is what it is.  I would have stuck with catalog year vs. intended production year.  We all know the actual production schedule can evolve over time, so putting stuff in a catalog called 2018 V2 and starting the numbers with 19 doesn't make any sense at all to me.

So is it a positive or a negative that this scheme only allows Lionel to come up with 1000 unique items in each category for a given year?

-Dave

Greg Houser posted:

NYC 428 posted:

And this is important or disturbing.........WHY??

It's very important. It enables us to tell at a glance whether or not an item is a scale item.

-Greg

Agreed. I’m glad GregR posted the information.

Since we are on this topic, does anyone know how or why did lionel uses the prefix number 6? The "6- ######" 

I'm sure this is likely mostly due to how you put things in their tracking data base.  personally i'd rather have it longer and somewhat human readable:

19-FAST-072-FULL-CURVE

...or something

Don't tell anyone but I believe the 6 prefix is my bank account number...

As for any number which describes the car, engine, accessories,  as long as it's explained in the beginner pages of the annual  pocket reference book, it's ok. The sceme of thinking reminds me of some banks i audited.

Now to find a pocket that it fits my pocket price guide!

Lionel's uninformative - to civilians - item number system has been an irritant to many for a long time; maybe forever. To those of us who are former catalogue junkies, and Hi-railers since dirt, it has not been a real problem, but to the newbies and those who have a real but more casual "internal data base" the numbers are no help.

Of course, "unlike MTH's system" is the next phrase, and rightly so - until you bring up 30- that can mean RK or RK Scale...still a better system, though.

Lionel's new system, if it is indeed going to be informative, does seem like a very belated change, and no real good to me at this stage.

I believe the 19 refers to the 19 in 2019.  Just a guess...

GregR posted:

 

The first two digits are the year of introduction. So, when you see a lot of 19's, you can guess when you'll see these products.

The next two digits are the marketing category. For example, to name a few random ones: 25 is track, 26 is O scale rolling stock, 28 is O traditional rolling stock, 29 is operating accessories, 31 is scale steam locomotives, 35 is motorized units, 38 is US made, 42 is Lionscale, etc.

The last 3 numbers are basically sequential numbers which represent different unique road numbers/names.

do you have a complete list?

Charly posted:

I believe the 19 refers to the 19 in 2019.  Just a guess...

ding, ding, ding winner, winner!

For me, this is not an issue. With the old 6- series some dealers utilized the 6- on their website and others did not. I am almost sure we will all get used to the new numbers.😉

Joe Gozzo

bigdodgetrain posted:

GregR posted:

 

The first two digits are the year of introduction. So, when you see a lot of 19's, you can guess when you'll see these products.

The next two digits are the marketing category. For example, to name a few random ones: 25 is track, 26 is O scale rolling stock, 28 is O traditional rolling stock, 29 is operating accessories, 31 is scale steam locomotives, 35 is motorized units, 38 is US made, 42 is Lionscale, etc.

The last 3 numbers are basically sequential numbers which represent different unique road numbers/names.

do you have a complete list?

Interesting list.

Off the top of my head, the only part that makes me pause is the 2 single digit examples at the top (so those will only be 6 digit numbers, presumably), and the lump of "US Made" as a category.  So far all US made items have been traditional (non-scale) rolling stock, right?  (maybe I missed an example of otherwise, but that seems to be the general idea).  Oh, and "Miscellany". 

I wonder which category is club issued items?  Miscellany, General Exclusives, or just lump them in with whatever category they fit?

With some categories possibly overlapping, this could become meaningless after a while, but I guess we will see.

-Dave

Dave45681 posted:

Interesting list.

Off the top of my head, the only part that makes me pause is the 2 single digit examples at the top (so those will only be 6 digit numbers, presumably), and the lump of "US Made" as a category.  So far all US made items have been traditional (non-scale) rolling stock, right?  (maybe I missed an example of otherwise, but that seems to be the general idea).  Oh, and "Miscellany". 

I wonder which category is club issued items?  Miscellany, General Exclusives, or just lump them in with whatever category they fit?

With some categories possibly overlapping, this could become meaningless after a while, but I guess we will see.

-Dave

The first 2 categories on the list will not be 6 digit numbers.  There's a leading zero, as in 01 and 07.  Look at the SKU's on these items:

http://metca.org/Flyers/METCA%...der%20Form%20WEB.pdf

Club issues are in category 01, Exclusives.

Stu

bigdodgetrain posted:

Lionel announced this at the April 2018 York as they have ran out or are close to running out of 6 dash numbers.

Change is hard for some but keeps happening anyway.

They've hardly run out of 6-xxxxx numbers, as the number of them used is well under 20,000, probably closer to 15,000.

NOT LionelLLC posted:

The first 2 categories on the list will not be 6 digit numbers.  There's a leading zero, as in 01 and 07.  Look at the SKU's on these items:

http://metca.org/Flyers/METCA%...der%20Form%20WEB.pdf

Club issues are in category 01, Exclusives.

Stu

Thanks, that does make more sense with the leading 0's

Are the 2 METCA cars sort of a new/old hybrid in terms of the numbering scheme though? 

Starting out with a 48 as seen on the order form and then following with the seven digits following the above seems a bit odd (at least with the format as described within this thread).

-Dave

Lionel's uninformative - to civilians - item number system has been an irritant to many for a long time; maybe forever. To those of us who are former catalogue junkies, and Hi-railers since dirt, it has not been a real problem, but to the newbies and those who have a real but more casual "internal data base" the numbers are no help.

I agree it is helpful to understand Lionel's numbering system. But there is good reason for Lionel to keep it to themselves, at least officially. Were Lionel to publish it's numbering system, then their ability to modify as needed would be severely impacted. They'd be bound to announce changes, and then listen to the cries of people who think it shouldn't be changed.

Plus, how many of the posts here are critiquing / criticizing the scheme?
I am certain the folks at Lionel put plenty of thought into it.