There have been a lot of comments (both good and bad) about the products in Lionel's 2018 V2 catalog. But, has anyone noticed that for the first time in a very long time, the product numbering system has changed?

The first two digits are the year of introduction. So, when you see a lot of 19's, you can guess when you'll see these products.

The next two digits are the marketing category. For example, to name a few random ones: 25 is track, 26 is O scale rolling stock, 28 is O traditional rolling stock, 29 is operating accessories, 31 is scale steam locomotives, 35 is motorized units, 38 is US made, 42 is Lionscale, etc.

The last 3 numbers are basically sequential numbers which represent different unique road numbers/names.

Think about this product number inflation in terms of a mundane die cast bumper. In the 1940's it was a No. 26. In the 1950's it became a No. 260. By the 1970's, MPC made those same bumpers a No. 6-2283. Not to be outdone, LTI threw in another digit, and made the same product a No. 6-62283.  But six digits was apparently insufficient to describe the lowly No. 26 bumper, so now we have seven digits, should they ever choose to make them again.

Original Post
NYC 428 posted:

And this is important or disturbing.........WHY??

It's very important. It enables us to tell at a glance whether or not an item is a scale item.

-Greg

Member of the Brotherhood of the Crappy Basement Layout

Associate Member of the NJ Hi-Railers

Image result for nj hirailers logo

 

The method to the numbering seems like a good plan, even if different than what we are used to.

I think the previous point where things became much too random was when they started with anything other than a "1" in the 5th digit.  i.e., when 12xxx used to always mean accessory, 11xxx used to mostly mean a set, etc.  Once we started with 22xxx, 38xxx, etc (and even some leading with a "1", like 14xxx), it became much more random.

If something is purely identical, it would seem silly to renumber it just for the year.  So I'm guessing the bumper example cited above will not result in a 19aabbb number for next years catalog, and then a 20aabbb number if/when cataloged in 2020.  (at least I hope not!)

Actually, to the point of a lot (all?  I didn't review to check) of the 2018 vol 2 items starting with a 19, that seems wrong to me, but it is what it is.  I would have stuck with catalog year vs. intended production year.  We all know the actual production schedule can evolve over time, so putting stuff in a catalog called 2018 V2 and starting the numbers with 19 doesn't make any sense at all to me.

So is it a positive or a negative that this scheme only allows Lionel to come up with 1000 unique items in each category for a given year?

-Dave

Don't tell anyone but I believe the 6 prefix is my bank account number...

As for any number which describes the car, engine, accessories,  as long as it's explained in the beginner pages of the annual  pocket reference book, it's ok. The sceme of thinking reminds me of some banks i audited.

Now to find a pocket that it fits my pocket price guide!

Lionel's uninformative - to civilians - item number system has been an irritant to many for a long time; maybe forever. To those of us who are former catalogue junkies, and Hi-railers since dirt, it has not been a real problem, but to the newbies and those who have a real but more casual "internal data base" the numbers are no help.

Of course, "unlike MTH's system" is the next phrase, and rightly so - until you bring up 30- that can mean RK or RK Scale...still a better system, though.

Lionel's new system, if it is indeed going to be informative, does seem like a very belated change, and no real good to me at this stage.

GregR posted:

 

The first two digits are the year of introduction. So, when you see a lot of 19's, you can guess when you'll see these products.

The next two digits are the marketing category. For example, to name a few random ones: 25 is track, 26 is O scale rolling stock, 28 is O traditional rolling stock, 29 is operating accessories, 31 is scale steam locomotives, 35 is motorized units, 38 is US made, 42 is Lionscale, etc.

The last 3 numbers are basically sequential numbers which represent different unique road numbers/names.

do you have a complete list?

bigdodgetrain posted:
GregR posted:

 

The first two digits are the year of introduction. So, when you see a lot of 19's, you can guess when you'll see these products.

The next two digits are the marketing category. For example, to name a few random ones: 25 is track, 26 is O scale rolling stock, 28 is O traditional rolling stock, 29 is operating accessories, 31 is scale steam locomotives, 35 is motorized units, 38 is US made, 42 is Lionscale, etc.

The last 3 numbers are basically sequential numbers which represent different unique road numbers/names.

do you have a complete list?

IMG_5103

Attachments

Photos (1)

Interesting list.

Off the top of my head, the only part that makes me pause is the 2 single digit examples at the top (so those will only be 6 digit numbers, presumably), and the lump of "US Made" as a category.  So far all US made items have been traditional (non-scale) rolling stock, right?  (maybe I missed an example of otherwise, but that seems to be the general idea).  Oh, and "Miscellany". 

I wonder which category is club issued items?  Miscellany, General Exclusives, or just lump them in with whatever category they fit?

With some categories possibly overlapping, this could become meaningless after a while, but I guess we will see.

-Dave

Dave45681 posted:

Interesting list.

Off the top of my head, the only part that makes me pause is the 2 single digit examples at the top (so those will only be 6 digit numbers, presumably), and the lump of "US Made" as a category.  So far all US made items have been traditional (non-scale) rolling stock, right?  (maybe I missed an example of otherwise, but that seems to be the general idea).  Oh, and "Miscellany". 

I wonder which category is club issued items?  Miscellany, General Exclusives, or just lump them in with whatever category they fit?

With some categories possibly overlapping, this could become meaningless after a while, but I guess we will see.

-Dave

The first 2 categories on the list will not be 6 digit numbers.  There's a leading zero, as in 01 and 07.  Look at the SKU's on these items:

http://metca.org/Flyers/METCA%...der%20Form%20WEB.pdf

Club issues are in category 01, Exclusives.

Stu

bigdodgetrain posted:

Lionel announced this at the April 2018 York as they have ran out or are close to running out of 6 dash numbers.

Change is hard for some but keeps happening anyway.

They've hardly run out of 6-xxxxx numbers, as the number of them used is well under 20,000, probably closer to 15,000.

NOT LionelLLC posted:

The first 2 categories on the list will not be 6 digit numbers.  There's a leading zero, as in 01 and 07.  Look at the SKU's on these items:

http://metca.org/Flyers/METCA%...der%20Form%20WEB.pdf

Club issues are in category 01, Exclusives.

Stu

Thanks, that does make more sense with the leading 0's

Are the 2 METCA cars sort of a new/old hybrid in terms of the numbering scheme though? 

Starting out with a 48 as seen on the order form and then following with the seven digits following the above seems a bit odd (at least with the format as described within this thread).

-Dave

Lionel's uninformative - to civilians - item number system has been an irritant to many for a long time; maybe forever. To those of us who are former catalogue junkies, and Hi-railers since dirt, it has not been a real problem, but to the newbies and those who have a real but more casual "internal data base" the numbers are no help.

I agree it is helpful to understand Lionel's numbering system. But there is good reason for Lionel to keep it to themselves, at least officially. Were Lionel to publish it's numbering system, then their ability to modify as needed would be severely impacted. They'd be bound to announce changes, and then listen to the cries of people who think it shouldn't be changed.

Plus, how many of the posts here are critiquing / criticizing the scheme?
I am certain the folks at Lionel put plenty of thought into it.

C.W. Burfle

How about this theory....There are 12 numbers in the UPC bar code on a Lionel box. The 6 means the first 6 digits which is the manufacturer which is always the same. The next 5 are the 5 digits of the product number and the 12th digit could represent some unknown item like production run or if the item has a different number car numbers???

What makes the new system more complex is that the car or engine number is not printed on the side of the car like in pre and postwar so moving to a UPC based system makes sense,

Edmund Schwartzel 060518 posted:

How about this theory....There are 12 numbers in the UPC bar code on a Lionel box. The 6 means the first 6 digits which is the manufacturer which is always the same. The next 5 are the 5 digits of the product number and the 12th digit could represent some unknown item like production run or if the item has a different number car numbers???

What makes the new system more complex is that the car or engine number is not printed on the side of the car like in pre and postwar so moving to a UPC based system makes sense,

The 12th digit in the bar code is just whats called a check digit, based on formula of the first 11 digits.  Whats strange with the barcodes is Lionel in the beginning simply used the 5 digits in the SKU as part of the barcode. For example, item 16200 would have a barcode like 02392216200x where X  is the check digit. This system was in place for quite a long time, then a few years back the 5 digits in the code became no longer related to the SKU number.  Makes it more difficult for scanning barcodes, as you need a master list to correlate the bar code to the SKU.

To further confuse matters, some of the new 7 digit PN barcodes simply show the last 5 digits of the SKU.  Which means for a new item for example 1919200 the bar code label would look like 02392219200X , which was a barcode label number already used for item 6-19200.  Possibility exist for the same barcode label tied to 2 different SKUs. Seems very confusing to say the least.

I use MiTrains database to keep track of my inventory. So long as the number fits in the data field, I don't care one whit how many numbers are used.  Frankly, I'm glad they are removing the "-" from the catalog number. It's a nuisance to type. 

Ed

 

"One TODAY is worth two TOMORROWS"

                             - Ben Franklin

Trainlover160 posted:

For me, this is not an issue. With the old 6- series some dealers utilized the 6- on their website and others did not. I am almost sure we will all get used to the new numbers.😉

Joe Gozzo

I'm not going to have to get used to it because I ain't buyin' any of it.

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×