Proto 1 Big Boy

Might be because it's a 17 year-old engine with old electronics, no warranty and a price equal to the original street price?

Hi actually proto sound 1 were very good engines and are highly reliable plus boards are still able to purchase to keep them running! And they have Excellent sound effects!

Alan

Some MTH Premier PS1 engines have slightly less detail than the newer PS2 and PS3 versions but, to me, the difference is not significant. PS1 is fine if you run conventionally and don't insist on command control. The PS1 electricals are very reliable as long as you don't try to run with a discharged battery. To prevent that, I remove the batteries in my PS1 engines and install a BCR to eliminate having to change batteries - just as with PS3. PS1s don't have automatic speed control but, when broken-in, the internal friction decreases and they run smoothly at low speeds. PS2/PS3 engines with speed control are better for switching but that's not how I run my trains. I'm satisfied running PS1 engines that I bought years ago but, if I were buying now, I would buy PS3.

MELGAR

@Bob posted:

Might be because it's a 17 year-old engine with old electronics, no warranty and a price equal to the original street price?

Original Street price was $1395.00.  $1150.00 is certainly no deal if you're looking to upgrade to PS3.

As far as warranty goes, terms on today's warrantees, and restrictions on where you can get warranty service, are not as good as they used to be.  Plus to get the warranty you need to buy the latest, and the most recent MTB Big Boys goes for $1999.00 or more.

Four or five years ago you get most any PS1 for a nice price, even considering what it would cost to upgrade.  I bought several at that time.

Now it's not the case.

Mike

@CALNNC posted:

I've been watching a MTH 20-3021-1 Proto 1 Big Boy #4012 for a while with a $1150 asking price and no one has jumped on it.  Is it the price, or is it being and outdated Proto 1?

Keep your money in your pocket, that's WAY too much for an old PS/1 locomotive!

With a switching layout like mine, which has Postwar tubular track, 031 curves and 022 switches, running MTH PS2 and PS3 locomotives at a snail's pace on DCS was a game changer, compared to running PS1 locomotives conventionally.

That said, my MTH PS1 engines have run just fine for 20+ years, but not as prototypically slowly and smoothly as the PS2s and PS3s.

In my experience, PS1s can be purchased at a bargain price at train shows.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

In my experience, PS1s can be purchased at a bargain price at train shows.

Certainly a lot less than $1150 for virtually any PS/1 Premier steamer that I've seen.  Certainly way more than I'd ever pay for a PS/1 locomotive!  I used to buy PS/1 Premier steam for $300-400 all the time for upgrades, the prices have gotten a little silly, but not that silly!  If you exhibit a little patience, much better deals will come along.

I paid a lot less than that for a fairly rare locomotive, the Lionel scale PRR T1 Duplex, and it already had full command control!

Thanks for all the great input and information on this particular model.  I will continue to watch for a more affordable sale.

There is a cab forward, locally for sale: a So Pac cab #4126 (PS3 appears to be the #4136) for sale for $450. MTH prod # Mth 20-3125-1 is listed but a search of that pulls up a 4-6-2 K4 w/ PS2 that originally sold for $900. The pict in the ad is the cab forward. Looks nice. I have no use for it....it takes 72" curves.

Well, the Premier Cab Forward for $450 with PS/3 would be a really good deal!  Buy it for me, I'll take it.

John, with the conflicting numbers, I am not sure what version this is. I will write the guy and find out, and find out if he still has it. But, you and I are a bit apart distance wise.....I am on the eastern shore of MD by Ocean City and have no desire to ship something like this. If it is what you want, I will put you and him in contact with each other. I do not need to be involved in this. I was mainly trying to help the OP judge prices out there.

This MTH model, cab forward, locally for sale: it appears that the cab forward, locally for sale: a So Pac cab #4126 could be MTH 20-3125-1.....that cab number shows for that product number some place....which is NOT premier. #4126 comes from the picture I posted.

Some of the confusion comes from this: MTH website shows a different engine for the 20-3125-1 product number: https://mthtrains.com/20-3125-1 Shown there is the O Scale Premier 4-6-2 K-4s Steam Engine w/Proto-Sound 2.0 NOT the cab forward.

When I know more, you will hear from me.

Seems like all PS1 locomotives become expensive paperweights with the very tempermental boards in them.  The chip gets scrambled easily and locomotive will no longer operate.   A BCR can help prevent the occurrence, but it isn't a guarantee.  I personally won't buy anything with PS1 again, as it was a hard learned lesson.

@Brian DeFazio posted:

Seems like all PS1 locomotives become expensive paperweights with the very tempermental boards in them.  The chip gets scrambled easily and locomotive will no longer operate.   A BCR can help prevent the occurrence, but it isn't a guarantee.  I personally won't buy anything with PS1 again, as it was a hard learned lesson.

Brian,

Sorry you had difficulty.  How many PS1's have you had experience with?

You seem to be stating that "the chip gets scrambled easily" as though it applies to all of them, and it happens often.

It does neither.  It's primarily seen with the very oldest; the first year or two of production basically.

There are many of us on the forum who have PS1's and have never encountered this problem.  I have six.  None have had the chip problem.  Even if you do have it there's an easy fix to return the software to an operable state.  The problem does not reduce the engine to scrap.  There's no hardware to be changed.  No soldering.  No big money. And no need for it to become a shelf queen.

I agree with your word 'temperamental' but not as applied to the chip.   We generally have a bigger issue getting them to roll, i.e. getting them out of the reset state that they go into upon power up, but even that is simply learning a technique.  No scrap, no change to hardware, no soldering, no big money, no shelf queen here either.

Just patience in both cases.

Mike

Two things to remember when running a PS1 engine with a BCR:

1) Apply less than 10 volts before coming out of neutral.

2) Let the BCR charge at that setting for at least one minute before coming out of neutral.

I've been running PS1 engines for almost 25 years. Never had to replace any electronics except to install a BCR - and never had a failure of a BCR. These days, I buy only PS3 but still run my PS1 engines.

Sorry to deviate from topic - "Proto 1 Big Boy."

MELGAR

To the OP...."do not like PS1 and..... antique." And to Brian....not hardly, at least in my case.

The first PS1 I bought was in one of the MTH sets....the Chessie F3 from the Chessie freight set, probably somewhere about 1990-2001. No smoke, but those sounds/announcemnts, remote operating couplers, Somewhere along the way, the first year or so, it locked up. Clang, clang.  

The dealer sent it to MTH for a new chip (or whatever it needed to prevent it from ever happening again, and actually, he and I drove it up to MTH and they gave us a tour - I was impressed) and it was repaired and returned to me, for free. Anytime I have wanted to run it since then, it has run flawlessly. I ran it last week, after it had sat for about 5 years. A good rechargeable battery, and it was good to go.

I even put it on a DCS track, and run it conventionally over the years. I have 2 other PS1 engines (also 1 from a set, the best deal MTH ever offered were sets, and another stand along NYC steam)  from that time frame, neither has suffered a problem, other than burned out bulbs or traction tires. They just "Keep on ticking." That sounds like a pretty decent "track" record to me.

Now, ask me if I like PS2 better, especially with DCS, and it is a resounding yes. And.. I ran conventional, the upgraded sound quality would push me to PS2, but operating is about the same, and would have little to do with one being better than the other!

If you run conventional, you will most likely, appreciate the quality of the PS1 if it had one of "those chips" has been updated, and cared for. Why spend hundreds of dollars more than you need to, to get a PS2 or PS3 if you are never going to use all the ....pardon me, "bells and whistles?"

Antiquated? That is most of the post war stuff....and MANY people enjoy running those engines - including me! Compared to some pre war, they are very "modern technology." It is all about perspective.

Just 2 cents worth from someone who does not know better. Mike and John can give you more low down on the PS1 than I ever could.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, the Premier Cab Forward for $450 with PS/3 would be a really good deal!  Buy it for me, I'll take it.

John, check your email for updated info. Greg

(look for cngw@______.com in spam if you don't get it soon.)

Cal

The $1150 for the PS1 loco is an asking, probably a hoping for price.  If you want it, make an offer for what it is worth to you.  Have no shame or pride, just ask.  A NO will not hurt you or the seller.

Charlie

@CALNNC posted:

Do folks not like MTH Proto 1 engines now because they are not Proto 3, so are considered an antique?  Do folks try and get #4014, and don't really want another number?  Did Proto one locos have a common problem that make them undesirable now?  I've been watching a MTH 20-3021-1 Proto 1 Big Boy #4012 for a while with a $1150 asking price and no one has jumped on it.  Is it the price, or is it being and outdated Proto 1?  I run standard ZW power and I am not driven to have the  sounds they all come with now so the Proto number is not a selling point with me.

Send me an email. It is in my profile, yours is not. I may have some information for you. Greg