PRR fellas!…let’s build an S2!! Tales From Harmon Shops

One lucky S2!

Well now, what is this thing doing at the Harmon Shops? Was it getting ready to be scrapped and one of the New York Central guys said that they could get it running like Doc Brown's futuristic steam train from Back To The Future 3?

Enough of my silly jokes, this is something to behold, that is for sure. What can be done, got me on that Pat. Some of the PRR Scholars will have to weigh in with their overall knowledge, stats, and such to get the right information to you. That is, if they wish to comment.

Perhaps @CAPPilot Ron could offer some insight, or @Bob Bob Bartizek. I'm not sure of other PRR scholars, but I do know that these two usually have very great knowledge quite a bit. If they don't, I'm sure that they could grab some information from a friend about what is supposed to be under the hood.

Dave, I like the challenge, that’s the gas for me,…..I know nothing about an S2, how’s it supposed to look?….what’s the exhaust output supposed to look like?….what never done before feature can possibly be done that sets an S2 apart?…colors? finish? details?….let’s toss it all on the table, and everyone agree on what should be, ……and I’ll build it,….😉

Pat

@Norm Charbonneau modified/upgraded one of the old Lionel TMCC turbines. Maybe he can help regarding sounds/ electronics provided it can be sourced. I"m no Pennsy expert, but to my ears it sounded better than Lionels Legacy version.

Heres  Norms video. I will respectfully delete this post if he would prefer to handle it from here:

I don't have much in the way of knowledge about appearance. I assume it made less smoke at speed though since it ran more efficiently at speed. Not sure how that would be programmed though. I know they didn't chuff.

Either way, I'll be taking notes on what you do. There will definitely be some learning opportunity for some of us watching this thread!

@RickO posted:

I believe @Norm Charbonneau modified/upgraded one of the old Lionel TMCC turbines. Maybe he can help regarding sounds/ electronics provided it can be sourced. I"m no Pennsy expert, but to my ears it sounded better than Lionels Legacy version.

ERR has a turbine sound set Rick, it don’t sound too bad, ….and that tender looks like it’s got enough room to put a subwoofer in it,.…😛

Pat

@RickO posted:

I believe @Norm Charbonneau modified/upgraded one of the old Lionel TMCC turbines. Maybe he can help regarding sounds/ electronics provided it can be sourced. I"m no Pennsy expert, but to my ears it sounded better than Lionels Legacy version.

Ah, I forgot about Norm. Yeah, he is textbook researcher as evident when he is doing his videos saying how he got a new book to help with what he is working on. I'm sure there are several others that can help Pat. Let's see who comes out of the woodwork.

Thought you said S2....🤣🤣

This was purchased with no electronics. A future project to repower and add digital controls.

I'll be watching the steamer rebuild Pat.

Bob

At least the road number is correct Pat, that's the easiest thing on the list. If the coal load needs topping of, well, probably. I doubt it is cast in, but hard to see here. The red is probably right, but what do I know. Getting ready to eat leftover roast beef. I'll be back later. Norm, Ron, Bob, and any other PRR scholar, you got the brains.

Thanks for sharing Pat!  Did you happen to take any pics with the shell off?  I'm curious myself about "what's under the hood!"

@Ted S posted:

Thanks for sharing Pat!  Did you happen to take any pics with the shell off?  I'm curious myself about "what's under the hood!"

No, I didn’t take any pics of the driveline yet, but when we dive in, I sure will,……we’ll start with the basic upgrades, dipping the wheels, etc, so we’ll see what’s in there at that point,…

Pat

You need to make sure it’s really inefficient at low speeds, but runs like a top over 80 mph, just like the real one.

@harmonyards posted:

what about the smoke?….just a nice even steady stream? Or should it billow out ?……

Thinking a little more on this, and in reference to my previous comment, I wonder if you could arrange so it billows out at low speeds and thins to a wisp at higher ones.

Maybe @gunrunnerjohn could whip up an “Inverse SuperChuffer” circuit for your project?

Being primary meant for passenger trains, did it have a train phone antenna?

@rplst8 posted:

Thinking a little more on this, and in reference to my previous comment, I wonder if you could arrange so it billows out at low speeds and thins to a wisp at higher ones.

Maybe @gunrunnerjohn could whip up an “Inverse SuperChuffer” circuit for your project?

Technically, beings it gonna be command, one could just cut the smoke intensity down via the remote once she gets moving good,……making it automatic might be a bigger challenge then we think…..neat idea though…..

Pat

@Chuck Sartor posted:

Being primary meant for passenger trains, did it have a train phone antenna?

That can be added easily Chuck!…..we need the PRR heavy hitters to say yay or nay,…..

Pat

This could be helpful, a bunch of pictures on #6200 from the net.

Railroad Pictures Archive #6200 Index of Pictures

No Trainphone on the S2.  Quite a few good photos are in the video (really a slide show) below.  You can pause to see them better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWHnTmNTwAI

Some of the photos show smoke.  There are not many videos of the S2 in action, but here is a short one, departing Chicago with smoke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hePTXxHsOMY

Voting for that "just out of the paint shop look": https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...2#170922644743520912

Anybody seen this short clip of the S2 in action?

Pretty low quality, but it clearly shows a lot of smoke at slow startup.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-L0whhrHrss

@harmonyards posted:

Technically, beings it gonna be command, one could just cut the smoke intensity down via the remote once she gets moving good,……making it automatic might be a bigger challenge then we think…..neat idea though…..

Pat

Not that difficult at all.  I have this little board that senses when you're moving by sniffing the motor voltage.  It closes a DPDT relay when you're in motion.  I've used it a number of times in the inverse sense, dropping the smoke volume when you stop moving.  You use the relay to switch in the appropriate number of dropping diodes to reduce the heat.

I believe Classic Trains magazine ran a feature on the S2 several years back.  Unfortunately I did not save that issue, but would be a good reference if you can find it.  I’m sure someone on the forum can identify the issue…

I wouldn't have much insight to add to this project. My ca. 2001 Lionel scale TMCC Turbine in the video above was sold a few years ago. I put Cruise M in it and hotted up the smoke unit. Also bumped up the 'blow rate' with an aux chuff switch on the tender wheels to make it more active sounding when underway. I have seen many of the 3rd Rails for sale but not for the price/condition that would make one worthy of an ERR upgrade. I actually have the TMCC S2 RS4 audio board in my collection. I bought a bunch of the PRR ones when they were still available. I must have thought at one time I'd get a 3rd Rail S2 but now I'd rather wait for a Legacy reissue.

From the video Bob posted coming out of Chicago, it looks like the smoke is constantly coming out. I read about the constant flow of steam and the "Whoosh" before, so there shouldn't be any smoke Chuffs. Almost like the old smoke units just pushing out smoke.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not that difficult at all.  I have this little board that senses when you're moving by sniffing the motor voltage.  It closes a DPDT relay when you're in motion.  I've used it a number of times in the inverse sense, dropping the smoke volume when you stop moving.  You use the relay to switch in the appropriate number of dropping diodes to reduce the heat.

Well, I didn’t know that existed, …..and I wasn’t volunteering you for anything buddy!!…..I take creed of your motto,…..but since such a device exists, we’ll add it,….😉

Pat

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

From the video Bob posted coming out of Chicago, it looks like the smoke is constantly coming out. I read about the constant flow of steam and the "Whoosh" before, so there shouldn't be any smoke Chuffs. Almost like the old smoke units just pushing out smoke.

Certainly no chuffs, but I think the smoke volume probably changes with speed.

Pat: The PRRT&HS Keystone Magazine did a pretty good article on it a few years back and I think I have it and could copy it for you if you like. Being a turbine I don't believe there would be any chuff the smoke would be a steady stream.

@RJT posted:

Pat: The PRRT&HS Keystone Magazine did a pretty good article on it a few years back and I think I have it and could copy it for you if you like. Being a turbine I don't believe there would be any chuff the smoke would be a steady stream.

Please, & thank you!….I knew there’s no chuff sound, but getting the smoke correct would be a big plus for accuracy,……also, any added details can help bring the model to life,….

Pat

Pat I will dig it out and scan it to you via the email in your profile if you like!

I wonder if the PRR S2 was a bit like "rolling coal".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

Tons of smoke from the get go!

@RJT posted:

Pat I will dig it out and scan it to you via the email in your profile if you like!

Perfect !….thanks Rick!!

Pat

@rplst8 posted:

I wonder if the PRR S2 was a bit like "rolling coal".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

Tons of smoke from the get go!

Oh I can make it billow the smoke, ….that’s not a problem,…..😁….if need be, I can make it chase you right out the room!…..I need to watch these videos, and see how the plumes pattern,…

Pat

Looks like just straight up in volcano form……and y’all are right, …..it makes a lot of smoke!…..good golly!….

Pat

Pat check your email.

@RJT posted:

Pat check your email.

Got it Rick, thanks ….I saved it to my IPad for reading after supper,….really appreciate it!!

Pat

Pat I sent a second email just a few minutes of some stuff I found.

@RJT posted:

Pat I sent a second email just a few minutes of some stuff I found.

Yep, got that too Rick, I backed up all of it …..many thanks!!..

Pat

What a great project! I can see this being a fun one to follow.

I wonder if the reason why the S2 produced so much smoke from the start was because of draft. When the locomotive starts there is not a strong enough draft to make the fire burn properly. As a result, more black smoke. When the locomotive gets going there is a big enough draft to pull enough air through the grates to feed the fire and properly burn the volatiles before they are wasted in black smoke. I could be wrong but just a hunch.

I do not know enough about the S2 to add to the detail conversation but maybe add a force drawbar. I cannot remember the exact name but the kind Lionel uses on their 21" passenger cars. This model would definitely look good with a close up tender.

Just as an aside, the PRR S2 direct-drive steam turbine was a near-success. It actually worked and did the job, though not without certain issues, and all new technologies or new applications of technologies have issues. Like the poppet valves tried on certain reciprocating steam locos, such as the PRR T1, the issues with the S2 turbine could have been mastered and reduced with further research, but the diesel-electric route ended all such efforts.

A worthy project for upgrade.

Even a NYC guy like me can't resist the PRR's trio of wild and crazy locos: the S1, S2 and T1. I have a model of each.

Pat,

"I’d like to hear input on are things like the class lights"

The best source on the forum is here: PRR marker and classifaction light practices 1922-1957 - info you can use to harmonize locomotive details with your chosen era | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

Looking forward to seeing progress on this project!

@Scott R posted:

Pat,

"I’d like to hear input on are things like the class lights"

The best source on the forum is here: PRR marker and classifaction light practices 1922-1957 - info you can use to harmonize locomotive details with your chosen era | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

Looking forward to seeing progress on this project!

Thank you Scott, and everyone else that have provided links, with info!…..it’s all valuable information, ……BUT, I want to know what YOU guys & gals want to see,….if it’s supposed to have green class lights, etc, and popular consensus says so, then that’s what we’ll do!…..maybe I should’ve made this idea a little more clear on the opening post,…….I’m pretty sure I can do some research, and come up with a fairly accurate enough model based on what I read & see in the history books, …….but the enjoyment in the thread, the dialogue, and then seeing that dialogue applied in practice, will be a whole lot more fun, ….IMO, ……an example is like what Ryan suggested, then John said is doable,……so that’s what we’re gonna do!…So far nobody’s rebutted what Ryan said about how it’s supposed to smoke, so it’s looking like popular consensus ……so far …..😁

Pat

Pat,

Well since you asked, the lights on the S2 smokebox are not class lights at all!  They are actually marker lights that would only be illuminated during reverse movements when the front of the locomotive is actually the rear of the train. 

The S2 had unusual, cubed-shaped smoke box markers unlike any on other Pennsy steam as described in the link I posted.  So, if it were up to me, the smoke box markers on your S2 would have red lenses facing forward and amber lenses facing outward.  Extra credit if they are off when the locomotive is moving forward and automatically illuminate when in reverse! 

@Scott R posted:

Extra credit if they are off when the locomotive is moving forward and automatically illuminate when in reverse!

Easy to do, just have to have the reverse lamp come from the board in the tender to the locomotive.

@Scott R posted:

Pat,

Well since you asked, the lights on the S2 smokebox are not class lights at all!  They are actually marker lights that would only be illuminated during reverse movements when the front of the locomotive is actually the rear of the train.

The S2 had unusual, cubed-shaped smoke box markers unlike any on other Pennsy steam as described in the link I posted.  So, if it were up to me, the smoke box markers on your S2 would have red lenses facing forward and amber lenses facing outward.  Extra credit if they are off when the locomotive is moving forward and automatically illuminate when in reverse!

^^^^^^^^^^ now we’re talking!!^^^^^^^^^ and yes, we can certainly tie something like that into the reverse light circuit for proper operation,……that’s certainly odd from NYC practice, but if it’s so, that’s how we’re gonna do it,…😁….just as if you guys were having an engine spec built as y’all would like to see it!….that’s good stuff Scott!!

Pat

@D500 posted:

Just as an aside, the PRR S2 direct-drive steam turbine was a near-success. It actually worked and did the job, though not without certain issues, and all new technologies or new applications of technologies have issues.

Yes, the reading I’ve done on it indicated that much of the trouble was just a lack of straight and trouble free track work to run at the speeds it needed to be efficient.

Even a NYC guy like me can't resist the PRR's trio of wild and crazy locos: the S1, S2 and T1. I have a model of each.

Don’t forget the Qs too!

Pat,

I’ve seen photographs of 6200 with the “elephant ears” and without. Here’s something a little more unique.

For a while at least, it ran with “half ears” that were smaller and curved to the profile of the boiler. That might really make your copy unique too!

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4934662

Ryan, maybe on the elephant ears,….they don’t look difficult to make, so let’s see if we get a few more yays ……one thing I see clearly in the pic you linked, are the cube type marker lights ( I was properly corrected by Scott on that terminology ) and I know I can scratch build them accurately,……so they are a must

how’s everyone with the stock colors as-is?…..and the finish?….the finish isn’t glossy like an old Williams, but it’s not dead flat like model paints, ……it’s more of a satin finish,….paint looks fairly crisp, and I’m not seeing any ugly eye sores,…

Pat

The paint looks fine. Not crazy like Tuscan red and has enough striping to make it look classy.
I looked at few photos of the engine and it looks like the placement of the marker lights changed a few times. It seems they would be moved to the front or a little further back like in @rplst8 ‘s photo. Maybe a change in marker position?

If we're throwing out suggestions, I like the idea of having changeable elephant ears, IE applied magnetically or some other way but removable. Maybe both the "half-ears" and full smoke lifters each able to be taken off if desired and run clean.

I really like the flexible elephant ear idea.  If I had to choose just one though, it would be the "half ears."  They look classy to me.  The full ears look too similar to the NYC Niagara smoke lifters for a Pennsy engine. 

@rplst8 posted:

Don’t forget the Qs too!

I have a T1 and a Q2, still looking for an S1 at a reasonable price.

@Scott R posted:

I really like the flexible elephant ear idea.  If I had to choose just one though, it would be the "half ears."  They look classy to me.  The full ears look too similar to the NYC Niagara smoke lifters for a Pennsy engine.

I like the idea too, ….I’ll look into it’s feasibility,….

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Certainly no chuffs, but I think the smoke volume probably changes with speed.

Yeah, a few of the pictures have virtually no smoke billowing out, others look like a bunch of steam engines were having a party.

@harmonyards posted:

I like the idea too, ….I’ll look into it’s feasibility,….

Pat

Yeah, one of the pictures said that the ears were added later.

mini ears?

Also, one other thing is the colors changing a bit, that is the smoke box. In a few of the pictures the tone is lighter, others darker. Did they change the colors on the smoke box over time?

Smoke box color

Smoke box color 2

Smoke box color 3

Smoke box silver?

Well, what does all this do for the color?

On the PRR, the graphite treatment of smokeboxes and firebox sides were generally consistent within a shop facility, but varied between shop facilities.  For example, Columbus might use a lighter graphite mix than Altoona.

Regarding the above linked photos:

"Smoke box silver?" is Baldwin's builder's photo.  For these photos, driver tires were usually painted white (and usually only on the side facing the camera) and smokeboxes had a gray treatment.  These photos were often retouched as well.

"Smoke box color 2" shows the S2 posed on Horseshoe Curve.  I've read that this was only done during its first trip west after being built.  Thus the smokebox in this photo had the graphite applied by Baldwin.  The S2 never ran east of Pittsburgh, and almost exclusively served the Crestline, OH to Chicago segment of the railroad, as did the S1.  The nickname for this mostly flat and straight segment was "the race track."

The lighting in "Smoke box color 3" is so bad that no conclusion should be drawn from the photo.

This leaves the "Smoke box color" photo, taken in 1950 (thus after PRR shopping) and also taken in direct sunlight.  Dark graphite wins the day!

I purchased this engine when first released and sold it many years ago and upgraded to a Lionel TMCC version.  The sprung drive wheels are my biggest complaint with the model.   When going around curves the two middle drivers drop off the rail and fall inside, looking odd.  Norm C. recently did an upgrade on an atsf 2-10-4 from 3rd rail where he mentioned replacing the springs for the first and last drivers with inserts instead to stop this.   I assume a similar approach could be used here on this.  

I always thought the key stone  on the smoke box looked small on this model.

The final fix for that driver drop issue was to also harden the stance of the rear drivers. At first I tried just plugging the center blind drivers. The springs were so soft in that engine. If I was running tubular track it would not have been a problem because those blind drivers would ride themselves right back out over the radius of the railhead. I left the front springs intact.

I like the idea of interchangeable smoke deflectors ie: elephant ears but think the build should stay as close as possible to what she was when either scraped or as built. Not the in between looks she had over her short life. I read somewhere she finished out her life in NE PA somewhere. Sad that her like the S1 were never preserved.

Another vote here for the detachable elephant ears.

According to Wikipedia‚ although the source isn't noted, the larger elephant ears were put on in December 1946 and they stayed on until its scrapping, so the S2 had them most of its life. The small, semi-circular deflectors were ineffective and short-lived, according to the Wikepedia article.

Edit to add: That same article says the elephant ears were necessary, because it blew "heavy smoke" at lower speeds, so have the smoke start heavy and thin out at higher speeds would seem to be appropriate.

@rplst8 posted:

Yes, the reading I’ve done on it indicated that much of the trouble was just a lack of straight and trouble free track work to run at the speeds it needed to be efficient.

Don’t forget the Qs too!

The S2 was being used right up to its grade crossing accident in early 1949.  With the diesels coming on line, it was not cost effective to fix it.

I have 3rd Rail's Q1, an absolutely awesome looking engine.  Unfortunately, it has issues even with my O-90 curves.  Maybe the same issue as mentioned with the driver springs, but I have not had problems with my 3rd Rail S2.

2nd pair of elephant ears it is!….last night I looked at the stock ones, and they simply pop right off, so producing a second set from sheet brass won’t be an issue ….they’ll be the shorter set, with the appropriate detail, ….I’ve made elephant ears from scratch before for a L&HR R1 project, so I’m no stranger to danger…..consider it done….😁

Pat

Not that I really plan on doing a total repaint ( I’d rather not )  but did 3rd Rail get the Brunswick green fairly decent on this model? And what about the Tuscan red?…I need to see if I can con, ….oops I mean coax my buddy Dave to make a list of the upgrades we are going to do …..kinda like we’ve done on other useful threads, so there’s one place to go to for a “master list “ of what we’re doing, then once we’re satisfied, we’ll commit …

Pat

Removable elephant ears-stock and short
Smoke box color-dark graphite
Reverse lamp-when in reverse
Smoke-billows at low, hardly there at speed, no chuffs, constant flow
Engine and tender colors-are okay

Class Lights-yes, and they are in the right spot unlike the Lionel Model which they are on the front instead of sides

Firebox color-looks right as there does seem to be a little outline around the black according to the photos(Lionel's silver)

Driver springs? Norm's reply on Drivers

Cab Curtains-yes

Deck Plate-yes if works

Crew Skeletons-Replace those with real working crew that eats for a living

Second edit 5:40PM 2/5/2023

Thank you Dave!….ask & ye shall receive!?

Pat

Since it’s a turbine, a funny easter egg would be to have a jet engine sound kick in over 80 SMPH.

Ok, maybe thats a stretch.

P.S. best forum topic in a while for sure.

@harmonyards posted:

Thank you Dave!….ask & ye shall receive!?

Pat

No problem Pat. Bob had commented on the smoke box colors which was very helpful, I don't remember now if there was anything regarding the overall color. I believe someone did say the red was right, but since I was in a bit of a rush this morning, I didn't finish looking. After breakfast I'll pop a better look at things. I think the black looks good, could be better, but what do I know.

Anybody apposed to cab curtains and a tender drop plate?

Also, the paint looks pretty close to the real thing. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4969557

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Anybody apposed to cab curtains and a tender drop plate?

Also, the paint looks pretty close to the real thing. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4969557

Yeah, though that picture the black looks glossy, though I think that is lighting or something like that which I thought Bob said.

@harmonyards, what about the red, could you get a topside picture of the tender? I don't think there is any other red other than that, right Pat?

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Anybody apposed to cab curtains and a tender drop plate?

Also, the paint looks pretty close to the real thing. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4969557

That’s a given, curtains, detailed cab, and deck plate are standard fare on most all my upgrades ( given certain track conditions that don’t allow for a deck plate ) also we’ll populate the cab with a seasoned crew,…..not the stick figure stiffs, or the anorexics victims 3rd Rail used in some of their engines ……😁

Pat  

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Yeah, though that picture the black looks glossy, though I think that is lighting or something like that which I thought Bob said.

@harmonyards, what about the red, could you get a topside picture of the tender? I don't think there is any other red other than that, right Pat?

I’ll take clear pics of the top this evening for further discussion, …….I’d be willing to redo the Tuscan if warranted …..I’d rather not mess with all that green and having to re-letter ….that would put the price point in the stratosphere,……I’d like to keep it affordable for someone to acquire this thing,……besides, the boys in Harmon might start to complain about the stench of a PRR engine lingering around here too long,….😂😂😂

Pat

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

No problem Pat. Bob had commented on the smoke box colors which was very helpful, I don't remember now if there was anything regarding the overall color. I believe someone did say the red was right, but since I was in a bit of a rush this morning, I didn't finish looking. After breakfast I'll pop a better look at things. I think the black looks good, could be better, but what do I know.

If the consensus says the graphite is too light, I can certainly darken it out to perfection,…..but I’d wanna hear more than one say to make it so,….major upgrades, I want consensus, not one rule ……place your votes folks….

Pat

Darker firebox, the silver look doesn't do it.

@harmonyards posted:

I’ll take clear pics of the top this evening for further discussion, …….I’d be willing to redo the Tuscan if warranted …..I’d rather not mess with all that green and having to re-letter ….that would put the price point in the stratosphere,……I’d like to keep it affordable for someone to acquire this thing,……besides, the boys in Harmon might start to complain about the stench of a PRR engine lingering around here too long,….😂😂😂

Pat

I agree that it looks like it is black color, the one photo looks like it is glossy, but I don't think that is right. Bob said definitely darker graphite. The red is probably okay, but it definitely needs to be seen better, so we will wait for the picture.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Darker firebox, the silver look doesn't do it.

Even the Lionel model from 2014 was dark, so I agree that silver must have been one of the things Bob mentioned. Keep it dark, looks far better.

Updated the details on the list.

@rplst8 posted:

Since it’s a turbine, a funny easter egg would be to have a jet engine sound kick in over 80 SMPH.

Ok, maybe thats a stretch.

P.S. best forum topic in a while for sure.

Well, for these electronically clever guys in this thread, I would like to throw in the fact that a few years back Lionel offered a (totally cool) near-model of the NYC RDC/jet test bed, which, I guess, had a jet sound board in it. So....

I did not get the jet RDC; wish that I had. 

Probably best to take a shot out in the daylight while the sun is out ( for now ) ….I’ll do that here in a minute…..it’s friggin cold as all get out here in NC ……but the things I do for this hobby!!…..🥶

Pat

Ok, that was cold ,…..and technically, I’m a Yankee,…..here’s some outdoor shots of our star, ….the Tuscan on tender will definitely have to be what y’all say, …..but clearly even I can see the smoke box silver has to go,…..no worries, that’s achievable,…..take a look, lemme know what else y’all see?…….my eyes are drawn to the horrible chrome wheels everywhere,…..we ain’t at a car show, they’ve got to go!!….

Pat

There is no tuscan red on a PRR steam locomotive, zero, zilch, nada.  The tender deck and insides of the streamlined shell should be what PRR called Freight Car Color.  This is an orange/red and the photos above look good for that.  The background of the keystone number plate on the nose should be toluene red, which is a bright red.  Passenger cars were tuscan red, as were Diesel passenger locomotives after 1952.  Prior to that, passenger locomotives were dark green like the freight locomotives.

@Bob posted:

There is no tuscan red on a PRR steam locomotive, zero, zilch, nada.  The tender deck and insides of the streamlined shell should be what PRR called Freight Car Color.  This is an orange/red and the photos above look good for that.  The background of the keystone number plate on the nose should be toluene red, which is a bright red.  Passenger cars were tuscan red, as were Diesel passenger locomotives after 1952.  Prior to that, passenger locomotives were dark green like the freight locomotives.

My bad Bob ……thanks for clearing that up,…..so the tender deck looks good …..noted sir,….

Pat

Yeah, it is that orange/red which people sometimes say "Tuscan red" which it isn't. Tuscan red is what was dressed on the GG1 and the E7(or E8) most recently. Here is what Tuscan red looks like below.

I would add more plumbing to both sides of the locomotive. If you look at photos of the real thing they had quite a bit.

PAINT COLORS FOR PRR LOCOMOTIVES AND TENDERS

As of October 8, 1929

DARK GREEN LOCOMOTIVE FINISH

*All Locomotive Wheels, *Trailer Truck Frame, Pilot, Wooden Pilot Beam, Cylinder Head and Steam Chest Casings, Cylinder Jackets, Boiler Jacket (including inside Cab), Headlight, Bell Frame, Sand Box, and Dome, Air Resivoirs, Running Board Facing Strips, Cab Exterior, including Doors, Valve Motion (Painted Parts), Tender Cistern Exterior: Sides, Back, and Front End (except Coal Space), also Molding Strip between cistern and frame, Tender Frame (wood)

BLACK

*All Locomotive Wheels, *Trailer Truck Frame, Steel Pilot Beam, Pilot Beam Braces, Round Number Plate: background, Engine Truck (except wheels), Frames and Braces, Hand Rails, Running Boards and Brackets (except facing), Steps, Pipes and Fixtures, Brake Rigging, Deck Plate, Tender Frame (steel), Tender Steps, Tender Trucks and Wheels, Tender Coal Space

NOTE: *Dark Green and Black were Optional for Locomotive Wheels and Trailer Truck

FRONT END PAINT

Smokebox, Stack, Firebox (exposed portion), Ash Pan

FREIGHTCAR COLOR

Wood Cab: Roof above Rain Gutters (repainting when only one coat is applied)

Tender: Top of Cistern, including rear of Coal Space)

MIXTURE OF THREE PARTS FREIGHT CAR COLOR AND ONE PART BLACK

Wood Cab: Roof above Rain Gutters (repainting when two coats are applied)

Steel Cab: Roof above Rain Gutters (repainting when only one coat is applied)

MIXTURE OF EQUAL PARTS FREIGHT CAR COLOR AND BLACK

Wood Cab: Roof above Rain Gutter (new cabs) Steel Cabs: Roof aboe Rain Gutters (new cabs and repainting when two or three coats are applied)

SASH COLOR

Cab Window Sash (side and rear)

INTERIOR CAB GREEN Cab Interior, including doors and seat boxes

ADDITIONAL COLORS USED IN THE LETTERING AND STRIPING

BUFF LETTERING COLOR

Freight and Switching Locomotives: ALL Lettering on Locomotive and Tender.

Round Number Plate: Numerals and Border

GOLD LEAF

Passenger Locomotives: All Lettering on Locomotive and Tender, Striping on Locomotive Wheels, Cab and Tender. Round Number Plate: Numerals and Border, Keystone Number Plate: Numerals and Border

WHITE COLOR

Passenger Locomotives: Striping on Locomotive Wheels, Cab and Tender

CHOCOLATE STRIPING COLOR

Passenger Locomotives: Striping on Tender

TOLUIDINE RED

Keystone Number Plate: Background

Note- Gold Leaf was used on all Keystone Number Plates, including those on M1 and M1a Locomotives in freight service.

DESCRIPTION OF COLORS

DARK GREEN LOCOMOTIVE FINISH

Was a mixture of Green and Black which was so dark that it usually appeared Black

FRONT END PAINT

Was a heat resistant black graphite paint to which some aluminum powder was added. The shade of this "silvery-black" color varied at different shops and engine houses.

FREIGHTCAR COLOR

Was a standard PRR Freight Car Red as used on all Freight Cars.

SASH COLOR

Was a Brilliant orange-red which was called "dark orange" on Passenger Car window sash. It was a mixture of Venetian Red, Chrome Yellow and White.

INTERIOR CAB GREEN Was an ordinary medium Green

BUFF LETTERING COLOR

Was a very light yellow. It was a mixture of Chrome Yellow, White, and a small amount of Venetian Red.

GOLD LEAF

Was Genuine Gold Leaf made of real Gold Leaf.

CHOCOLATE STRIPING COLOR

Was a Light Brown. It was a mixture of Indian Red, Chrome Yellow and Black.

TOLUIDINE RED

Was a bright Scarlet Red

@harmonyards

Pat, I have updated the list again per Bob stating that the orange is correct in the tender, so I listed engine and tender colors are okay

List of upgrades/to do list for the S2

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

@harmonyards

Pat, I have updated the list again per Bob stating that the orange is correct in the tender, so I listed engine and tender colors are okay

List of upgrades/to do list for the S2

Thanks Dave!….I was gonna do some work on this baby today, but alas, the Hudsons were a callin’ ……..I did get up with John, and got the electronics we want, including that special smoke feature board that popular consensus says we do,……the day job is gonna be tight this week, but I’ll see if I can pick away at some smaller details to keep the “train a rollin” …….ugh, that was weak…..🤣🤣

Pat

It has been a busy weekend indeed. Car getting serviced, run around, get car, come home, go to bed, get up, go shopping, come home, eat breakfast, haha. I just know that it has been a busy few days, like a week's worth of stuff in three days.

Good thread!  My only objection is to the idea of putting the speaker in the tender.  Generally, in an O gauge loco, there is room in the boiler for the speaker and since that is where the sound comes from, that is where the speaker should go.  Otherwise, it sounds weird.

Ed

@Ed Kelly posted:

Good thread!  My only objection is to the idea of putting the speaker in the tender.  Generally, in an O gauge loco, there is room in the boiler for the speaker and since that is where the sound comes from, that is where the speaker should go.  Otherwise, it sounds weird.

Ed

That’s gonna be a tall order Ed, and likely ain’t gonna happen, …..in order for the sound to be robust, the speakers ( in this case, there’s gonna be 2 ) need an enclosure, that enclosure needs to send the sound out for the best sound, ……with everything else going on in the boiler ( smoke units, lighting, wiring, weights, etc,..) there ain’t gonna be a whole lotta room,….. just about every modern 3 rail locomotive has the speaker(s) in the tender,…..with the occasional stereo sound with one in the boiler…..we can’t get too carried away, or the price point will be that of a small mortgage,…..I’d like to be able to offer the model at a decent price point for all those watching out there in TV land….😉

Pat

I would imagine most of the engines that do have speakers in the engine and tender, the ones in the engine are probably dang small or there is extra room in the boiler. The likes of the Big Boy, Challenger, I think the Class A and maybe EM-1 are the only ones I think that could apply. Anyone have an idea if that is a correct assessment?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I would imagine most of the engines that do have speakers in the engine and tender, the ones in the engine are probably dang small or there is extra room in the boiler. The likes of the Big Boy, Challenger, I think the Class A and maybe EM-1 are the only ones I think that could apply. Anyone have an idea if that is a correct assessment?

Your assessment is correct. From what I have seen most small locomotives do not have a boiler speaker and only in the tender. Most of the in boiler speakers are left for the big ones. Such as the VL and Legacy Big Boys, VL Class As, and VL Challengers. The EM-1s are the only ones left out. I do not know however if MTH does something different but that is what Lionel has done.

Unless you're right on top of the locomotive, I can't see where the location of the speakers is a huge deal.  I agree it would be better to have them in the boiler, but that ain't happening for most models.

You can pickup two of the Lionel 40mm 16 ohm speakers and one of their matching baffles, they make great sound  that way.

One example...

Ryan and Dave had talked about the dual speakers at length in the Challengers and Big Boys. That I do remember from the catalog shows. The Class A Ryan I believe was explaining it at York when they unveiled it. He did say that some other engines they had thought about the possibility of speakers in the engine, but just not enough real estate to make it work they would either sacrifice something else, or the size would be too tiny to do anything good.

The tender is cavernous, it’s definitely getting twin speakers, and an enclosure,….that’s a given on modern upgrades, …..

one more thing that bugs me, the black on all the trucks, ( tender trucks, pilot & trailing trucks ) ……it’s too glossy IMO, ….we want this to reflect a model, not a toy, so while we have all the wheel sets out, I’ll blast the trucks down to bare metal, and shoot them a nice contrasting satin black,….I think that combined with all the blackened wheel sets will make it pop, and drag this model into this century……..I did look at the marker lights on the front of the engine ( thanks for the clarification on this PRR people ) although they are the correct cube type, there’s no provision to light them as I can see, ….fortunately, I have the correct square stock brass that matches the size of the ones on the model now, so I’ll fabricate a new pair of lamps we can light up as you guys have suggested…….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

That’s gonna be a tall order Ed, and likely ain’t gonna happen, …..in order for the sound to be robust, the speakers ( in this case, there’s gonna be 2 ) need an enclosure, that enclosure needs to send the sound out for the best sound, ……with everything else going on in the boiler ( smoke units, lighting, wiring, weights, etc,..) there ain’t gonna be a whole lotta room,….. just about every modern 3 rail locomotive has the speaker(s) in the tender,…..with the occasional stereo sound with one in the boiler…..we can’t get too carried away, or the price point will be that of a small mortgage,…..I’d like to be able to offer the model at a decent price point for all those watching out there in TV land….😉

Pat

I always wondered how good the later Lionel steamers sounded when they put a speaker in the boiler and the woofers in the tender. I liked the concept anyways. I never tried it myself. A G scale steam engine might be a fun place to try.

Pat, et al,

I have a bunch of locos from 2-8-0's up to a 2-8-8-2 and everyone has the speaker in the boiler. Admittedly, the decoder goes in the tender.  Some of the speakers are cell phone speakers and they sound so loud that I have to turn down the volume.

This is for Pat: Which Pittman is in the S-2?  Is it a 9000 series, perhaps a 9233 or a 9234 or some other Pittman?

Thanks,

Ed

@Ed Kelly posted:

Pat, et al,

I have a bunch of locos from 2-8-0's up to a 2-8-8-2 and everyone has the speaker in the boiler. Admittedly, the decoder goes in the tender.  Some of the speakers are cell phone speakers and they sound so loud that I have to turn down the volume.

This is for Pat: Which Pittman is in the S-2?  Is it a 9000 series, perhaps a 9233 or a 9234 or some other Pittman?

Thanks,

Ed

It’s definitely a 9000 series Ed, ….I think it’s a 34, but I’ll be sure to make note of it when we go in for the kill,….I really didn’t pay no never mind which one it was, ….step 1 was to see if this thing ran smoothly, and was worthy of doing an upgrade without a boat load of mechanical work,…..I was pleasantly surprised how well she behaved just slapping a rectifier in there and let her run……it cruised just fine with out an electronics package …….this means any package we put on this, …..it’s just icing on the cake,…..but I’ll make sure I note which Pittman is installed in this engine …..

Pat

And while on the topic this is the S2 that I want.  Live Steam !   BTW,  Watching you close Pat. I also have a 3rd Rail S2 waiting for TMCC.           j

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oojmUmiDufA

Let’s dive into the popular consensus mods!…..first order of business, get rid of that light silver on the smoke box, …..y’all said it needs to be darker, so let’s make it so!….I’ll use my proprietary graphite blend which I know is way darker than what’s on the model as delivered,…..step 1 is to bathe the shell, soft brush, & dawn dish soap. Next, mask it up, 1/4” fine line tape, & 3/4” mask …..aluminum foil is my favorite paper mask, …the real real cheap stuff from the dollar store is the best IMO, …it’s like paper that crumbles up, but stays put,….it’s also super cheap,….note I’ve also scuffed the old smoke box color with fine gray scotchbrite, …I like a mechanical bond for paint, …no worrying about flaking off…..beings this smoke box silver is so light, best we lay down a black base coat. Before the black base coat has a chance to completely cure, I’ll shoot the proprietary graphite color ….that will give me the chemical bond between the two coats ……after this reply, I’ll carry the pieces outside so y’all can really see the difference before I shoot the smoke box front ….small details on the front are simply touched back up there’s so few of them, no need to go bananas,…..

also note, for the “markers” on the front, the cube type housing were present, and we can light them up as they should be, so before painting, we made the necessary holes, and test fitted LED’s BEFORE painting …..nothing like a perfect paint job, only to realize you need to put a power tool to it!…..no bueno!….figure that junk out first!!

Pat

Today, we’ll also tackle all those chrome wheels!…..there’s a lot of chrome on this locomotive, ……I’m sure if we went to a car show, we’d get first place for bright work,…..but we ain’t at a car show, so let’s fix that!…….first thing to do is pass the wheel sets through the glass cabinet, ….the fine media happily munched on all that chrome plating, and knocked them back down to plain steel, …..after a wash in warm soapy water, into the black oxide dip,……a 10 minute soak, and they come out nice & black…..then a soaking in penetrating oil so the oxide will suck up the oils, and rust proof them…that was a lot of wheels!!….

Pat

Holy Toledo Pat, that dark graphite looks great. That color really gives that sinister Pennsy look. I was looking at the before and after, it is a good contrast seeing it go from the silver to great dark color. I like how you got that silver off that handwheel making it the red that we usually see on some high end models. Another class act job Pat.

Along with the umpteen billion wheel sets I darkened, I also darkened the drivers, they had too much chrome going on too,…..…can anybody spot the subtle add on detail I did on the chassis that’s not present on the model as delivered?……thanks big time for those of you that have sent me research info on this locomotive!……it’s a lot of help!!……

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

can anybody spot the subtle add on detail I did that’s not present on the model as delivered?

Red knob?

@harmonyards posted:

Wow that looks REALLY nice. I feel like my wallet will be hurting when I send my fleet to you for shopping and paint someday!

@rplst8 posted:

Red knob?

I should’ve been a little more forthcoming, …..spot the detail added to the chassis

Pat

Here’s this evening’s mock up shot, still a lot of pieces to put back on, but wanted everyone to see, the chrome is now all gone, also note, all the trucks have a nice satin black finish now, …..

Pat

Looking good! The blackened wheels and smoke box definitely looks good on this model. Definitely an improvement.

@harmonyards posted:

I should’ve been a little more forthcoming, …..spot the detail added to the chassis

Did the linkage to the oiler move?

@rplst8 posted:

Did the linkage to the oiler move?

Nope, still right where they’re supposed to be,…..

Pat

Ryan look closely at the pics on page 1. Those pics are right out of the box……compare them to the pic with the question, ……it’s such a subtle mod, but when you realize it, it’ll be an ahhhhhh, it needs that moment!…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Ryan look closely at the pics on page 1. Those pics are right out of the box……compare them to the pic with the question, ……it’s such a subtle mod, but when you realize it, it’ll be an ahhhhhh, it needs that moment!…

Hex heads on the rod bearings?

@rplst8 posted:

Hex heads on the rod bearings?

Maybe a little closer will help, …..this is all the hints I’m giving, …..😉

Pat

Pat is it the silver within the brake calibers?

@Rich Wiemann posted:

Pat is it the silver within the brake calibers?

No, but you’re sooooo close!!….you even got the image of what I’ve added in your pic!…..you’re in the neighborhood….😁😁😁

Pat

I have been flipping back through the old photos and the new ones and I cannot figure out what is added. The only thing I can figure is rear brake shoes but I think they were there already. What did you add!?

I looked last night too, but got me as I cannot see what is to be seen, let alone know what the parts are other than brakes.

Y’all give up too easily!…..😁……so here’s another hint, what’s in this image that’s plainly not in the first images, ….you can see them plain as day, because they’re chrome as all get out, ……..you guys will get it this time,…….it’s an important feature that should be on every scale steam locomotive,……another hint, MTH didn’t start doing it till late PS2 …..like late, late PS2 ….

Pat

I know but I ain’t tellin’. Inside information and all that.

Pete

@Norton posted:

I know but I ain’t tellin’. Inside information and all that.

Pete

But is it a good detail to add?….

Pat

Not familiar with MTH bits, and no I didn't give up to easy. I looked for a long time last night. 😛

Darkened axle caps?

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Darkened axle caps?

Well, there’s no caps, but it’s right on the tip of your tongue now,…….for a shot, you’ve certainly skinned the target!……look at this pic from when I took it out of the box,…..

Pat

Center drilled axles!

Ah, he beat me to the punch! If that is what was added it defiantly is a nice little bit of detail not everyone models.

@rplst8 posted:

Center drilled axles!

DING!! 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

and a fine scale modeler is born!!…..good show!..

Pat

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Ah, he beat me to the punch! If that is what was added it defiantly is a nice little bit of detail not everyone models.

2nd place ……wha, wha, wha………but yes, if we’re going to build the BEST S2, that’s an important feature that is obviously Front Street, …..so we wanna look our best!….no??..

Pat

I cheated and knew that because Pat did that to my Yellow Belly pilot truck.  I was waiting to see if anyone else got it.   On the good side, I had a visitor looking at my locomotive and commented on the pilot truck looking realistic, so at least one other person appreciated the detailing.

And here I was looking at the ends not the drivers. I kept looking at either end trying to see if there was something there, that's why I was focused on the brakes. Dang it Pat, nice almost hidden detail added.

@harmonyards posted:

DING!! 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

and a fine scale modeler is born!!…..good show!..

The thing that reminded me was that you wished you had done it to John’s yellow belly Hudson.

Would those have been from where they turned the axles on a lathe?

@rplst8 posted:

The thing that reminded me was that you wished you had done it to John’s yellow belly Hudson.

Would those have been from where they turned the axles on a lathe?

Yep, not only when they actually make the wheel set, but whenever they added new tires, back in the lathe to true them up too, …..it’s hub centric machining ….

Pat

So what is next to work on Pat? Putting all the bits on except the elephant ears as that is still a project to make the mini-ears?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

So what is next to work on Pat? Putting all the bits on except the elephant ears as that is still a project to make the mini-ears?

Yes, I’ll make the mini ears, but probably more towards the end of the project, we certainly don’t need them at the moment. We’ll get a well dressed, functional model first ……

Pat

Sounds like a plan Pat. This is another one of those masterpieces in action. What's that old saying, "wait till you see it coming down the rails."

You may have to shoot a video of it in action when it is done, unless that would be left up to the owner of this model at a later date on their home turf? Needless to say, this is going to be one Cadillac of the Rails.

This thing continues to blow my mind!!……dress rehearsal, not in full costumes yet, but did the deed for cruise install via Cruise M & a mother board, ….I’ve got this engine so dialed in, it creeps the slowest I’ve ever seen and not stall!….you could knock me over with a feather beings this is a brass engine,,……this thing creeps so slowly, but so methodically, you can hear the individual boom, boom, boom, of the coupler slack coming out!!…..I tried to record it, but this antique iPad ain’t doing it,….nutz!!…..after this, I do have a cruising video, probably 20-25 SMPH??……ish??…

Pat

Granted, no lights, no smoke, this is just straight motor tug on a 35 car test train, ….this thing sips energy!….and remains sustained at these numbers,…..what does that mean?…..she’s efficient, and smooth,….

Pat

Pat, that dang thing is so quiet, you can only hear I guess the wheels slightly click on the rails? Is that what that is? I don't think I ever heard so little from any engine running over the rails.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Pat, that dang thing is so quiet, you can only hear I guess the wheels slightly click on the rails? Is that what that is? I don't think I ever heard so little from any engine running over the rails.

The louder clicks are my hand trying to hold this antique iPad,…….you can hear my fingers slipping, ….that locomotive is eerily silent, ……the sounds coming from the train set are sounds I’ve never heard before, …….individual coupler slack, flanges scrubbing the rail sides, crazy sounds I’ve never paid attention to,….until now,…….

Pat

Pat,

I think you are going to have a lot of work on your hands soon upgrading others' S2s! That dark smokebox color really makes the DGLE "pop".

Part of me wonders if that's what the importers have been getting wrong all these years. The Pennsy "dark green" is often all over the map, but that dark graphite just looks so nice. You are a talent beyond measure!

I dare say this outdoes the Super Hudsons you've done. I know that's probably blasphemy in Harmon but, the to this PRR foamer's eyes, it's a must have.

Yeah, that dark graphite is the bomb as they say. When Pat first posted the few pictures, it looked black on the first picture, but on point at closer glance.

@rplst8 posted:

Pat,

I think you are going to have a lot of work on your hands soon upgrading others' S2s! That dark smokebox color really makes the DGLE "pop".

Part of me wonders if that's what the importers have been getting wrong all these years. The Pennsy "dark green" is often all over the map, but that dark graphite just looks so nice. You are a talent beyond measure!

I dare say this outdoes the Super Hudsons you've done. I know that's probably blasphemy in Harmon but, the to this PRR foamer's eyes, it's a must have.

What matters is we’re doing it right, and paying the due homage to the prototype,……I am simply the tool in the tool box, ….it’s you guys that dictated the build,….just like the graphite coloring, if you guys said it was good, I would’ve left it be ……hats off to you guys, supplying the research info, providing the tips and features that need to be on this model,……it’s been a fun exercise, and best of all, it proves how well this group can come together, put ideas on paper, and then execute those ideas,……this one is far from over yet, but, we’ll certainly do this again!!……

Pat

Fellas, what do we want to do with the marker lights on the tender? ……I’d assume they’d only be illuminated when running light, ie; no train in tow, but there’s no feature I’m aware of to make that work, so best I can say is to make them illuminate when the headlight is on??……so when in reverse, the front markers would be illuminated, headlight off, and the rear markers off, and vice versa moving forward, …..what say ye?..

Pat

I’m game, if no one opposes.

In regular service, 99% of the time, the front and rear markers would all be off.  But, don't let that spoil your fun.

The R&D dept. at Harmon is hard at it!…..we’ve been reviewing the research info sent in by all of you!….and one thing that seems very consistent in the actual videos, is the steam exhaust from the generator, …..seems like it’s really prominent, with that said, and beings this engine pretty much smokes all the time, we’re developing a special smoke manifold that will carry smoke back to the generator via a scavenger system. So we’re using the main stack, and just scavenging a sampling and piping it out back, …..this is only in the mock up stage, I’ll be able to control the amount exiting the generator. I think this will work fine with John’s special smoke feature board, again, the smoke ( steam from the generator) will wain when in motion……also, the boys at West Albany have thrown their technical know how on a real special feature we think you’re really gonna like…..but I’m not tipping my hand on that one just yet!!…..let’s just say West Albany’s R&D team is tough to beat!!……so here’s  a short video on how this smoke system works…..

Pat

That is a shoooooot-ton of smoke if you know what I mean. Is that because of the pipe in the back that it makes some darn much or something else entirely? Great work for sure. Glad the R&D department is doing that great work that is needed.

Pat,  You're upping the ante and setting the bar pretty high for future smoke mods now.  Is the scavenge syphon tapped off the base of the stack or directly into the wick chamber?

I am imagining future locomotives on my layout stopping at the smoke fluid station quite often. Now I can see a purpose in making the smoke fluid station a working and viable accessory. Of course I need to start stockpiling JT fluid to keep the beasts puffing.

Ok, I full screened the video, nice connection. Did you solder similar to sweating a copper fitting or just braze it?

That's very cool pat, I'm impressed with the quantity of smoke out the dynamo port.

Thank you fellas, ….in its present form, it actually works too good, I’ll need to choke it for a good effect,…..

Ron, the scavenger pipe makes a 90 degree turn in the main stack, and aims at the exhaust opening, so it gets the pressure. The scavenger pipe also has to be a hair lower than the main stack so the smoke has no choice but to enter it. It’s a simple set up, the parts are soldered together,……

Pat

Ah, gotcha.

Pat,

Did you angle drill the hole so it would slip the copper in easier on a bias?  I take it the pipe looked similar to a upside down screen door hook and is held tighter to one side of the stack?

@Ron_S posted:

Pat,

Did you angle drill the hole so it would slip the copper in easier on a bias?  I take it the pipe looked similar to a upside down screen door hook and is held tighter to one side of the stack?

Ron, the brass stack is thin wall tubing, the copper scavenger pipe is a wee bit thicker, I just drilled the hole in the side of the brass stack tubing, then just force fed the copper down it’s throat . Once I got it where I wanted it in perpendicular to the stack, I soldered it in place, then trimmed everything……it’s easier to work with the long sticks, then cut off just the portion I needed …….before I actually assemble it in the locomotive, I’ll take a picture of the inside of the pipe …..

Pat

Thanks Pat,  I have done a lot of sweat solder copper joints, we owned a softener company when I was a kid and was put to work anywhere needed. Seeing how you did the syphon was inspirational. I am all for adding realistic accessories where possible.

WOW! This loco upgrade is one of the best I've seen! Next time i come across one of these S2s I'm grabbing it and sending directly to you!!!

@greg773 posted:

WOW! This loco upgrade is one of the best I've seen! Next time i come across one of these S2s I'm grabbing it and sending directly to you!!!

Just buy this one when Pat's done!

@coach joe posted:

Just buy this one when Pat's done!

Yep, ….when this locomotive is done, …..to market it goes,……keep a sharp eye out for it…..my good buddy Tom Market gave me such a good deal on it, even with the mountain of upgrades, the price will be attractive to even us poor souls!……this is going to be a new chapter on this forum. When I can pick up a project that’s desirable for many, we’ll spec build it with the ideas from this group,…..and the best part, no railroad will be immune, ……it’ll all just depend what comes across the pike!!…..anything from 1900 to now is on the table……we’re just beginning!!…if it’s titled “let’s build” on “Tales From Harmon Shops “ it’s a group community project!!…..good times!!

Pat

Wait what Pat?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Wait what Pat?

This is going to be a spin off from the “Tales From Harmon Shops “ ……this has been a lot of fun doing this project with everyone’s suggestions & input……to be honest, every chance I get a break, I look to see if someone has added a new idea, or feature that needs to be on this engine, ….and YOU have been the ambassador keeping lists a rollin’ to keep the project on path with all the add ons,…..I just simply look at your list Dave, & check off when it’s done, or a reminder to get certain parts ……also, behind the scenes, I get a lot of help from Pete, Lou, John, and a whole host of characters sending valuable research info,…..so hats off to you Dave!…..this is a whole new concept, ….beyond “built to order” ….it’s built by OUR order,……what an exciting time!!…..

Pat

Thanks Pat. I just do what everyone else does, maybe late to the party sometimes, but the last one to leave sometimes often. 👍🐻

@harmonyards posted:

Yep, ….when this locomotive is done, …..to market it goes,……keep a sharp eye out for it…..my good buddy Tom Market gave me such a good deal on it, even with the mountain of upgrades, the price will be attractive to even us poor souls!……this is going to be a new chapter on this forum. When I can pick up a project that’s desirable for many, we’ll spec build it with the ideas from this group,

Pat

What about a nice "custom built by Harmonyards" badge of some sort under the tender?

Ya know, with your signature on it. Like what Ford did during the SVT years.

That would increase the value substantially😉