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Today is the start of the design and construction of version 2 of the PRR Panhandle Division.

Here is the blank canvas.

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The Prototype - Background & History

This layout is my second attempt to model the 7 miles of the PRR Panhandle that ran through the northern panhandle of West Virginia and Steubenville, OH. The Panhandle was a second mainline of the Pennsylvania Railroad that ran from Pittsburgh to St. Louis.  It existed from 1848 through 1995.  Grif Teller immortalized the double track bridge across the Ohio River in the painting “Crossroads of Commerce” which appeared in the 1953 Pennsylvania Railroad Calendar.  That bridge still stands and the track using it serves Weirton Steel (now Arcelor Mittal) and the brick refractories and businesses on the New Cumberland secondary.  Unfortunately from Weirton Junction through Burgettstown and points east, the track has been pulled up and the right of way has been converted to a hiking / bike trail.

I grew up in Weirton, WV in the 1950s & 1960s. I left in 1978, but still have family and other ties in the area. The PRR double-track bridge at MP 42.11 was always a source of fascination for me, even as a small child going to Steubenville with my parents and grandparents. However, it was not until I saw Teller’s painting (in the late 1990s) that I realized what I wanted to model.



Vital Statistics of the proposed Layout:

  • Size & Shape:  Folded dog bone – 11’ x 41’.  In addition there is a 10' x 6' staging yard behind the eastern backdrop.  Total dimensions are 11’ x 47’ (517 square feet).
  • Track:  Mostly GarGraves with some Curtis sectional curves, Curtis Hi-Rail turnouts, and Ross Custom Switch turnouts.  Mainline curves are O72.
  • Yards:  Weirton Junction, Weirton Steel, Coal Mine Spur, Staging.
  • Command System:  TMCC. Turnouts have Z-Stuff DZ-2500C switch machines and are both TMCC and pushbutton controlled.
  • Wiring & Blocking:  8 power districts will be supplied from 1 centrally located power distribution panel. Bus wiring will be used.
  • Power:  6 Lionel 180 watt PowerHouses and 2 Lionel 135 watt Powerhouses will supply power to districts 1-8. Two (2) K-Line PowerChief 120 transformers will power switch machines, lights, and some AC accessories.  All DC accessories, building lights, traffic signals and street lights get their power from various 3VDC, 5VDC, and 12VDC power supplies.
  • Signals:  Z-Stuff DZ-1060 PRR position signals (9) & MTH PRR signal bridges (2).  The layout is only signaled for travel in the counter-clockwise direction.


Differences between Version 1.0 and Version 2.0

I feel that the increase in size (primarily length) will contribute to a more accurate representation of the area.  Panhandle 1.0 was an ambitious design crippled by limited space.  Panhandle 2.0 is similar in its major design aspects, but the additional space will allow those features to be separated by scenery.  My intention is to avoid crowding layout elements and give a real sense of distance between the features.



Construction Goals:

  • Select a uniform height (50”) that facilitates working underneath comfortably.
  • Avoid grades and take steps to make track as issue-free as possible.
  • Make the fascia, table tops, and legs as attractive as possible; use high quality wood and stain exposed components. Plan for layout skirting.
  • Minimize the use of cookie cutter sub-roadbed.
  • Make aisles wide enough for comfort and provide space for seating at least a dozen people.


Operational Goals:

  • Allow the simultaneous operation of at least 3 trains on the mainline and up to 3 switchers in yards or spurs.
  • Use a signaling system that prevents collisions.
  • Have curves large enough to permit the use of the largest PRR locomotives and scale passenger cars (requires O72).
  • Permit the running of long trains (10-20 hoppers or 8 passenger cars).
  • Allow operating sessions to take place.


Electrical Goals

Panhandle 1.0 (2005-2016) was originally conceived (back in 1997) as a conventional layout (a tip of the hat to Rich Melvin for his help on conventional electrical blocking ).  In 2005, I decided to install TMCC, but was influenced by the arrival of DCS.  After trying a DCS/TMCC combination during construction, I decided TMCC was the direction to pursue.  In 2007, the change was made to solely TMCC.  Home run wiring and light bulbs (as block power indicators) were retained in the design.

For Panhandle 2, the electrical plan divides the layout into 8 blocks or power districts – 4 mainline, 1 separate loop, and 3 yards - with the ability to individually control power to the yards.  The loop and mainline (districts 1-5) and yards (districts 6-8) are all command controlled.  District 1, which is a separate loop for the kids (River Route), will be operable in either command or conventional mode.

  • Eliminate multiple power distribution panels.
  • Simplify and improve labeling for all wires.
  • Make use of 2-color zip-cord where practical.
  • Improve wiring reliability and crimping techniques.


Much more detail to follow, but those are my goals and thinking as I take the first steps down the road.

As always, your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.

George

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Last edited by G3750
Original Post

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George,

What a pristine space for your new layout!  Thank you for all the background information to refresh memory and add too what you wrote in the previous version.  Yes I think the additional length of the layout will allow you to do better justice to the original plan!  

Since you have photos of the room, have you taken position of the house yet?  Of course I know you will be busy with moving, getting settled, and a host of other tasks in the near future!

I am looking forward to seeing the new plan and how construction develops!  I hope to be able to see it firsthand since you won't be very far from me.

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

What a pristine space for your new layout!  Thank you for all the background information to refresh memory and add too what you wrote in the previous version.  Yes I think the additional length of the layout will allow you to do better justice to the original plan!  

Since you have photos of the room, have you taken position of the house yet?  Of course I know you will be busy with moving, getting settled, and a host of other tasks in the near future!

I am looking forward to seeing the new plan and how construction develops!  I hope to be able to see it firsthand since you won't be very far from me.

Mark,

I'm up to my *** in alligators, but here's a photo of the house taken on Friday (move-in day).

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And I'll invite you over when we are not totally surrounded and done going crazy.

George

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G3750, Congratulations to you and your wife for building such a beautiful home and even better a Fantastic Train Room.  The pictures are so good and Your Plan of action sounds so promising...We wish you the best of fun, safety, and Pleasure of building your New Dream Layout....Please keep us updated as to your Progress and ideas.  This will be an Adventure we want to be part of...Thank You. IMG_7901

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Updated 5/11/2017:

Yesterday, I rechecked the dimensions of the room and discovered that the terrain differs from the map, so to speak. The left half of the room is actually 13'8" wide, not 14'.  At 20'10" from the left wall, it narrows to be only 12'8" wide all the way to the right wall.  So, I am currently tweaking the layout a bit to fit those dimensions while retaining adequate (3' wide) aisle space along the front of the layout.  Fortunately, the general shape of the layout will be preserved.  This will work!

Another change to the track plan involves the addition of a hidden run-around loop in the Weirton Steel area.  This will allow a switcher to pull a load into the mill and then escape.

Updates to the track plan are coming soon.  This unpacking and setting up the house is really getting in the way of working on the layout! 

George

Updated 5/16/2017:

I have rendered, as best I could, the train room and the layout's placement within it.  Yesterday, I took a number of detailed measurements of the room and created a Visio drawing of it.  Then I placed a JPEG of the RR-Track layout on top of it.  It's not perfect, but it should convey the main idea.  Anywhere you see solid white or gray areas are aisles.  I couldn't extend those to fit the odd shape of the areas, so I created blank spots (grayish-blue) and labeled them as aisles as well.  The spaces are actually, in fact, contiguous.  I think we end up with an aisle at the front right of the layout that is minimally 30" (maybe 34") wide.

The leftmost door leads to the workshop. The center door opens to a closet under the stairs. The rightmost door leads to the roughed in powder room / furnace room. The stairs lead up to the main floor.

Train Room4

Your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are always welcome.

George

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George,

Yes I am able to pick out the aisle areas and see that the different colored areas are really one big, long space.  Please refresh my memory from the previous plan.  Are the red spaces pop-up access holes?  As I recall, the area to the right of the large mill is staging for trains and also single engines in the corners.  Are there some areas around the mill that you won't be able to reach easily once the mill is in place, or will it be removable?  It looks to me like your adjusted, previous plan works out nicely in the new, long space.

George,

I think the Panhandle was mostly double track.     Here is a suggestion for the mainlline that would give you more the look of double track.    This is just a schematic, not to scale.    It also gives you more aisle access.    You would turn the towns and industries and put them along the tracks.    Just an idea.

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Mark Boyce posted:

George,

Yes I am able to pick out the aisle areas and see that the different colored areas are really one big, long space.  Please refresh my memory from the previous plan.  Are the red spaces pop-up access holes?  As I recall, the area to the right of the large mill is staging for trains and also single engines in the corners.  Are there some areas around the mill that you won't be able to reach easily once the mill is in place, or will it be removable?  It looks to me like your adjusted, previous plan works out nicely in the new, long space.

Mark,

Yes, the red areas are pop-up access holes, either hatches or hand-only.   The area to the right of the mills (there's a divider there that might be difficult to see) is for staging and engine storage.   I also intend to install some shelving on the walls and / or back of the divider / backdrop in that area.  Not shown in the staging area is the small window near the ceiling that may be used to help vent smoke / heat during operating sessions. 

Not all of the red areas are visible in the diagram; some of them are under the largest mill (Open Hearth, that's 2nd from the bottom of the layout).  My intent is to have all mill spurs within easy reach.  Ideally, I don't want to be lifting large mills in/out of position.  And with a layout height of 4', I can simply roll under there and retrieve / fix what goes astray.

Thank you, I also believe the adjustments are working out as well.  The longer new space does lend itself to the original design pretty well.

George

prrjim posted:

George,

I think the Panhandle was mostly double track.     Here is a suggestion for the mainlline that would give you more the look of double track.    This is just a schematic, not to scale.    It also gives you more aisle access.    You would turn the towns and industries and put them along the tracks.    Just an idea.

Jim,

Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to put this idea in front of me! 

And yes, the Panhandle was double-tracked, 3 tracked, and even 4 tracked in some spots.

With some tweaks, I think the eastern side of the layout already follows your direction.  However, I will take a crack at revising the Steubenville part and see how that plays out vis-a-vis room spacing.

Thanks again!

George

Last edited by G3750

George remember as you get older, crawling under the layout to reach an access hole, or crawling across the top gets less and less appealing..      So getting aisle acess to as much as possible is often works out down the road.     You could build it all 30-36 inches wide and put the tracks in reach almost everywhere.    Put the buildings and scenery toward the back.

Updated 6/5/2017:

We are having some dribbles of progress, little baby-steps towards getting the workshop and train room prepared for bigger things.

First photo is of the major set of shelves in the workshop. I am still finding bins, but we've gotten a lot in place.

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Second photo is of one of the spots in the workshop reserved for a pegboard.  The other pegboard will go on the wall to the right of the door.

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Here's a shot of the pegboard and furring strips awaiting the opportunity for assembly.

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Final shot is of the exhaust fan I found.  It's just above what will become the staging area.

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Like I said, slow progress, but at least it's a start. 

George

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Updated 6/9/2017:

I've made some progress on the lighting front.  I decided the obvious solution to getting identical lighting in both the workshop and the train room was to (DOH!) do the same lighting fixtures and bulbs.  Instead of going for shop lights in the workshop and track lighting in the train room, I am just doing track lighting everywhere.  I had a very helpful visit from a lighting sales person at the house yesterday.  He knew the products, lighting, and worked hard to understand what I wanted.  Track lighting with 4100K bulbs will give me the flexibility to play around with dispersing light and seeing how the color works in the room.  And it will be less expensive than LED shop lights. 

This is a big step forward and I'm pretty happy about it!   

George

Updated 6/22/2017:

Happy to report some progress:

  • After 45 days, we were able to put the car in the garage! :lol:
  • All major appliances are in and operational!
  • Garage is semi-organized!
  • First pegboard sheet has been installed.

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One 3' x 8' pegboard sheet will go below this one and another will be installed to the right of it. An access hole will be cut for the electrical panel.

Slow, but steady. I am using 2.5" drywall screws through the drywall into the 2"x4" stud beneath. The pegboard is attached with 1 3/8" drywall screws and fender washers into the furring strips. Yeah, it's overbuilt, but that's my approach after the hard-won lessons of PRR Panhandle 1.0. :lol:

So far, so good.

George

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George, Looks like you are moving along nicely!  You beat us, after roughly 2100 days in this house, we still can't get the car in the garage.  My wife keeps saying she will go through it all, but I'm not holding my breath.    Pegboard, no not here; my father-in-law put the old kitchen cabinets up all over the walls, and there is no room for pegboard here.  

Yes, you did come back in the nick of time for the Penguins victory!  

Updated 7/20/2017:

We've been in a logjam for awhile here regarding lighting the train room and workshop.  The components have been chosen.  A parts list is being generated.  I have procured a sample 5000K light bulb for evaluation, with a 4100K bulb on its way.  However, the first choice electrician is incredibly backed-up with work; I'm looking at a 3 month delay with no promise of an actual installation date.  Therefore, I have to go another way.  I am looking at another electrician that might be able to do the installation quickly (as within a month).

I should know more by next week.

BTW, installation of the additional pegboard was delayed by house-related items.  I hope to get to it today or tomorrow.

George

Updated 7/26/2017:

Today I tested 3700K, 4100K, and 5000K bulbs.  I am selecting the 4100K bulb for the workshop and layout.  It was bright without being harsh.

Also, I ordered (and paid for) the lighting components for the basement.  They should arrive on Friday or Saturday.

I have a quote for the labor and installation of the lighting is scheduled for next Thursday.

George

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

Sounds like you will have a well lit layout room and workshop soon!  

Mark, I hope so.  Lighting is a pet peeve with me. 

I also plan to light the underside of the layout in a consistent and useful way.  Still thinking about how I want to do it, but both rope light and LED strips are under consideration.   I will be using a rolling seat to move around under the layout.  Something like this...

prod_1833774212 - rolling stool

Still lots to think about.

George

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MNCW posted:

George,

  I found this link online which explains much about today's bulb technology. Glad things are moving along for you. 


http://blog.batteriesplus.com/...in-a-different-light 

Tom 

Thanks Tom!  This link spells out rather well what I'm using to influence my bulb decisions.  I need to have the same color range in both the workshop and the layout.  Otherwise, something I paint in the shop won't have the same appearance on the layout.  That would not be good.     And the uniformity of track heads and bulbs means I can move things around in a pinch if necessary.

George

Last edited by G3750
Mark Boyce posted:

I agree about lighting.  With cataract surgery on the horizon, I may get a reprieve from dark shadows.  However, even before I liked a lot of light on the subject.  

As to the stool, I think I would rather build high enough so I can sit on something similar instead of using something like a mechanic's creeper.

Mark,

Going through the process (one eye and then the next after a while) is somewhat annoying, but afterwards it feels like you have a new lease on life.  My distance vision is now excellent; I use glasses only for reading.  No problems seeing at night.  I'm a very happy man.

Yeah, something as low as a mechanic's creeper?  No thanks.

George

George, Martin's video is funny and creepy!

Thanj you for the comments on the cataract surgery.  Yes, I'm sure the process in between surgery is a bit annoying.  But the eye doctor says the end results will be like you said.  I have had bifocals or trifocals since I was 39.  But in the last year and a half, I have totally flipped from being far sighted to near sighted, having gone through 2 glasses prescriptions and everything is out of focus again.  The various rainbow and white halos around lights at night make driving rather tiring.  I'll be glad to go through the process with a positive end in sight.

Updated 7/29/2017:

Maybe not a ton of progress, but a lot of lessons learned. Someone back in this thread suggested that a 12" miter saw was overkill. (Thank you! You were right!) Unfortunately, I was thinking of the double bevel feature in the 12" saw (totally frivolous for my purposes).

Well, I bought the 12" saw at Home Depot and stuck it, unopened, in the garage while higher priority things took precedence. I kept looking at this huge and heavy box (which had been a struggle to get in the cart, in the car, and then into the house). Originally, I intended to put it downstairs in the workshop. However, I also planned to apply shellac or varnish to all cut pieces of wood. That would mean carrying the wood downstairs to the workshop, cutting it, carrying it back upstairs to the garage, varnishing it, and then taking it back downstairs for assembly. Seems like a lot of extra work for no good reason, doesn't it?

So, I decided that all cuts made with the miter saw would take place in the garage. That would allow me to varnish the cut wood and then take it downstairs for assembly. But how to store and maneuver this monster? I recalled that DeWalt made a rolling cart for it.

Yesterday, I went back to Home Depot and bought the cart.  As I'm pushing this massive item towards the checkout, I pass a construction worker (6'6", 280 lbs, orange vest) going the other direction.  I get the thing home, put it next to the unopened miter saw (again with much difficulty), and remembered the construction worker.  It occurred to me that a) I am no longer 25 years old; and b) you need to be the size of the construction worker to sling this miter saw and cart around. And getting the whole set up into the car (assuming it will fit  ) for transport to / from the Weirton Museum isn't going to be much fun.

Long story short, I took both the saw and the cart back to Home Depot and bought the 10" version.

What did I gain?

  • Portability: the ability to safely move the smaller saw around. And I already have a WorkMate stand that fits it.
  • Mobility: the saw (in locked position) will fit in the trunk of a Honda Civic or in the back seat.
  • Saved over $300.
  • More space in the garage.
  • Probably avoided hernia surgery.


Here's a photo of this saw. I love it!

NewMiterSaw_001_

On top of everything, I just made the first few cuts with it (got a 90 tooth finishing blade for it). The cuts are absolutely clean. The saw is quiet and it went through the wood like a hot knife through butter. I couldn't be happier.

George

 

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Updated 8/5/2017:

The new track lighting has been installed in the workshop and the train room!

Good shot of my pegboard getting utilized as well.

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That's motor inspector Samantha performing her duties - checking out the new lights.

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The final number and position of heads, as well as type of LED bulb (I currently favor 4100K) will be determined after the backdrop is installed.  That will give me something to evaluate lighting choices against.

This is a major step forward!

George

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Mark Boyce posted:

George,

The pegboard looks good as it is starting to be utilized.  So I take it Samantha has given preliminary approval,sign-off will be given when the backdrop and final lighting is in!  It looks great!!

Thanks Mark.  Yes, the pegboard is starting to fill up.  Just this morning I was wondering if I put up too much. 

Yeah, what was I thinking?

And as for Samantha, she's been very annoying and underfoot.

I'm still opening boxes of stuff and wondering why I brought them.  This is going to take much longer than I anticipated.

George

When 2 conductors in the same circuit are close, there is a capacitance effect.  This has no effect on a wire to a lamp, for example.  But when sends higher frequency signals, it could have an effect.  On my layout, I use 14-gauge stranded  THHM wire, available at Lowes, Home Depot, probably Menards, and many good hardware stores.   I keep hot and ground separated.

If you have 2 conductors from different circuits, say 2 hots feeding separate blocks, close together, you MAY experience inductance between them, that a signal on one induces a signal current on the other.

These issues aren't present if one only runs conventional.  But they MAY be if one uses a system that sends signals over the wires to issue commands to locos.

RJR posted:

When 2 conductors in the same circuit are close, there is a capacitance effect.  This has no effect on a wire to a lamp, for example.  But when sends higher frequency signals, it could have an effect.  On my layout, I use 14-gauge stranded  THHM wire, available at Lowes, Home Depot, probably Menards, and many good hardware stores.   I keep hot and ground separated.

If you have 2 conductors from different circuits, say 2 hots feeding separate blocks, close together, you MAY experience inductance between them, that a signal on one induces a signal current on the other.

These issues aren't present if one only runs conventional.  But they MAY be if one uses a system that sends signals over the wires to issue commands to locos.

Thank you for the insight.

George

Updated 8/9/2017:

Just a few random thoughts, ramblings, and updates.

  • While the train room is in pretty good shape, the workshop is lagging the play a bit. I've still got tools to hang on the pegboard, equipment to move downstairs from the garage, modeling supplies to get onto shelves, and books / software to get onto the bookshelves.
  • I've decided that I am moving the house-related supplies and materials (wall anchors, hooks, repair items, wall plates, old TV coax cables, etc.) into labeled bins and storing them in the closet or attic. This stuff will be rarely used, and it really shouldn't take up space in the workshop.
  • I have re-worked the RR-Track plan to plan (in detail) the Staging Area benchwork. This will be the first area constructed. Once it is in place, the backdrop will go in place. It's due to be photographed in early October.
  • I've located a source for the good plywood I want to use on the layout. Will probably place a small order in the next 1-2 weeks just for the Staging Area.
  • Will also start thinking about what track and switches are needed for Staging. That will get ordered in time for pickup at York.
  • I'm looking forward to next week's Steel Mill Modelers Meet in Bethlehem. Should be enlightening and directly applicable to the Weirton museum layout.


That's the current thinking.

George

Hi George, You have a very nice space for your layout and a great plan as well. Although I have not yet started to build my planned layout as yet I did purchase a rolling stool as you have shown in this thread, and afterward I determined that while sitting on the stool I would still have to raise the height of the layout for it to be comfortable working. It seems that my options are raising the layout height or lowering the height at which I sit while under the layout. I am considering a swivel boat seat mounted on a dolly. You may want to sit on that stool and have someone take a measurement before setting the height of your layout. Good luck with your build, it looks like a great plan. Rich

Chooch posted:

Hi George, You have a very nice space for your layout and a great plan as well. Although I have not yet started to build my planned layout as yet I did purchase a rolling stool as you have shown in this thread, and afterward I determined that while sitting on the stool I would still have to raise the height of the layout for it to be comfortable working. It seems that my options are raising the layout height or lowering the height at which I sit while under the layout. I am considering a swivel boat seat mounted on a dolly. You may want to sit on that stool and have someone take a measurement before setting the height of your layout. Good luck with your build, it looks like a great plan. Rich

Thank you, Rich.  I will check that out.

George

G3750 posted:

Updated 8/9/2017:

Just a few random thoughts, ramblings, and updates.

  • While the train room is in pretty good shape, the workshop is lagging the play a bit. I've still got tools to hang on the pegboard, equipment to move downstairs from the garage, modeling supplies to get onto shelves, and books / software to get onto the bookshelves.
  • I've decided that I am moving the house-related supplies and materials (wall anchors, hooks, repair items, wall plates, old TV coax cables, etc.) into labeled bins and storing them in the closet or attic. This stuff will be rarely used, and it really shouldn't take up space in the workshop.
  • I have re-worked the RR-Track plan to plan (in detail) the Staging Area benchwork. This will be the first area constructed. Once it is in place, the backdrop will go in place. It's due to be photographed in early October.
  • I've located a source for the good plywood I want to use on the layout. Will probably place a small order in the next 1-2 weeks just for the Staging Area.
  • Will also start thinking about what track and switches are needed for Staging. That will get ordered in time for pickup at York.
  • I'm looking forward to next week's Steel Mill Modelers Meet in Bethlehem. Should be enlightening and directly applicable to the Weirton museum layout.


That's the current thinking.

George

George,

That is a lot of great planning.

It is good to take the time to get organized, and put little used items out of the workshop.  My workshop will still use a section of the fat garage wall and a kind of temporary workshop area in the train room until all the benchwork is complete.

 I will look forward to seeing the photograph backdrop.  I take it you are looking for early autumn again along the Ohio Valley.

Do you mind me asking what kind of plywood you will be using and where you will be getting it?  I may want to do the same since we now live not far apart.

Good idea ordering track for pickup at York!!

Have a great time at the meet in Bethlehem!!  I'm sure you will come back with a lot of ideas and improvements!!

Mark Boyce posted:
G3750 posted:

Updated 8/9/2017:

Just a few random thoughts, ramblings, and updates.

  • While the train room is in pretty good shape, the workshop is lagging the play a bit. I've still got tools to hang on the pegboard, equipment to move downstairs from the garage, modeling supplies to get onto shelves, and books / software to get onto the bookshelves.
  • I've decided that I am moving the house-related supplies and materials (wall anchors, hooks, repair items, wall plates, old TV coax cables, etc.) into labeled bins and storing them in the closet or attic. This stuff will be rarely used, and it really shouldn't take up space in the workshop.
  • I have re-worked the RR-Track plan to plan (in detail) the Staging Area benchwork. This will be the first area constructed. Once it is in place, the backdrop will go in place. It's due to be photographed in early October.
  • I've located a source for the good plywood I want to use on the layout. Will probably place a small order in the next 1-2 weeks just for the Staging Area.
  • Will also start thinking about what track and switches are needed for Staging. That will get ordered in time for pickup at York.
  • I'm looking forward to next week's Steel Mill Modelers Meet in Bethlehem. Should be enlightening and directly applicable to the Weirton museum layout.


That's the current thinking.

George

George,

That is a lot of great planning.

It is good to take the time to get organized, and put little used items out of the workshop.  My workshop will still use a section of the fat garage wall and a kind of temporary workshop area in the train room until all the benchwork is complete.

 I will look forward to seeing the photograph backdrop.  I take it you are looking for early autumn again along the Ohio Valley.

Do you mind me asking what kind of plywood you will be using and where you will be getting it?  I may want to do the same since we now live not far apart.

Good idea ordering track for pickup at York!!

Have a great time at the meet in Bethlehem!!  I'm sure you will come back with a lot of ideas and improvements!!

Mark, I'm looking at Arauco plywood.  The closest distributor is XXXXXXXX.  Specs:

http://www.araucoply.com/infor...;fin=0&idioma=44

I'm also thinking about a higher grade of 2"x2" for the legs, but haven't settled on a source.  Shoot me an e-mail for the details.

 

WRONG.  There's a supplier in Tarentum - Allegheny Lumber.  The distributor is located in New Stanton, but they don't sell to the end-user.

Sorry about the confusion

George

Last edited by G3750

I just got back from the 2017 Steel Mill Modelers Meet and boy is my head spinning with new ideas! :roll:

Yeah, this could be bad.  Real bad. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:  

First of all, I picked up a set of plans for an Open Hearth. It's huge. That got me thinking about reducing the size of the Staging Area and giving the steel mill about 22 square feet of additional space. Right now, I'm toying with the idea of eliminating the Blast Furnace altogether and replacing it with a more scale sized Open Hearth. I would model the inside as well; it wouldn't just be a 3-D backdrop building.

Nothing's been decided yet. Lots of ideas rattling around in my head. :?

(In the back of my mind, I hear my father saying "George, your eyes are bigger than your stomach")

George

G3750 posted:

 

Today is the start of the design and construction of version 2 of the PRR Panhandle Division.

Good grief!! I can't believe I missed the start of your new layout build...and I have been watching for it too. At least I found it now. I'll be following along with interest.

Looks like a beautiful new home you have too and I certainly hope you enjoy it.

Good luck with everything and time permitting, please post lots of detailed updates. 

Also, moving is rough, we moved 4 years ago this month and are still fiddling around trying to get things where we want/like them. It takes a while! I have a small layout up and running, but it needs an addition in the worst way. Also have my workshop set up, but nothing is in the right place, still some re-arranging to do to get things in more efficient locations. Hope I live long enough to get all this completed!  

The stool you have posted for below layout work is great. I have one of those and also a mechanic's stool (slightly lower and a little different) and I would never have made it without those two items. Might be the best tools I have. Harbor Freight has them pretty reasonably priced and they are of decent quality as well. I think they were like $20 each when I got mine. 

Last edited by rtr12
Mark Boyce posted:

I agree about lighting.  With cataract surgery on the horizon, I may get a reprieve from dark shadows.  However, even before I liked a lot of light on the subject.  

As to the stool, I think I would rather build high enough so I can sit on something similar instead of using something like a mechanic's creeper.

You won't believe the difference the cataract surgery makes! I had both eyes done in 2015 and the improvement was just incredible! I only need glasses for small close up work and reading really fine print. I had 'coke bottle' thickness lenses before that and still couldn't see anything. It's just amazing what they can do these days! Good luck and I hope all goes well, I think you will be really pleased.

Last edited by rtr12
rtr12 posted:
Mark Boyce posted:

I agree about lighting.  With cataract surgery on the horizon, I may get a reprieve from dark shadows.  However, even before I liked a lot of light on the subject.  

As to the stool, I think I would rather build high enough so I can sit on something similar instead of using something like a mechanic's creeper.

You won't believe the difference the cataract surgery makes! I had both eyes done in 2015 and the improvement was just incredible! I only need glasses for small close up work and reading really fine print. I had 'coke bottle' thickness lenses before that and still couldn't see anything. It's just amazing what they can do these days! Good luck and I hope all goes well, I think you will be really pleased.

You are the second guy about my age who told me he had it done.  I'm not feeling as bad since I usually thought of folks over 70 having trouble.  I was far sighted, and it reversed to near sighted in about a year.  I didn't realize how dim things were getting too.  Thank you for the good report!!!

Updated 8/19/2017:

I've been doing a lot of thinking (always dangerous   ) about the Weirton Steel and the Staging areas of the layout.  Here's the new look.

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v027-Right Side

The major changes are: 

  • Shrunk the Staging Area.  In the process I lost 1 holding track, but gained 22 square feet in the Weirton Steel Area.
  • Enlarged the size of the Open Hearth and modified its shape to better reflect the prototype.
    Open HearthScan10002
  • Modified the track arrangement in the Weirton Steel area to add a wye.  This helps in moving hot metal cars between the Open Hearth and the Blast Furnace, and also prevents fouling of the main line (in order to access the switching lead).
  • Added spurs in the yard that serve the building.  For example, the Blast Furnace now has a Highline, a spur for slag cars, and a spur for hot metal cars.  The Blooming Mill has a spur for ingot cars and for slab cars; an old photo tells me where the doors should be in the building.  The Blooming Mill is in the top right of the postcard below.
    card00173_fr

1950_snowstormtrainstation

I haven't fully fleshed out the dimensions of the blast furnace, but if I specify it as No. 1 (the smallest), I have some flexibility there (modeler's license).

Your thoughts?

George

PS.  Thanks to the Weirton Area Museum and Cultural Center for their use of the photograph.

Attachments

Images (5)
  • PRR Panhandle 2.0 v027-Right Side
  • Open Hearth
  • Scan10002
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  • 1950_snowstormtrainstation

George,

I only know what you share about steel mills and the railroad tracks that serve them.  That said, I think losing the one staging/holding track is small sacrifice to pay to expand the models of the mill.  You will have to selectively compress everything as it is.  The wye makes sense, and the extra yard trackage seems beneficial to me.

I'll keep watching for others' feedback and updates.

Updated 8/29/2017:

After much thought and measurement, I have constructed a detailed room plan and, within in it, a detailed track plan. Walls (except the top) are shown in black. You can now see the aisle space available.

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032

Let's take a close-up look at the Eastern end of the layout first.

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032-R

Moving right to left (east to west), here's a partial list of the changes:

  • Resizing of the Staging Area.  It is now 6'x11'.  White spaces within are open areas for the operator to stand.  The basement window is shown.  The back of the divider will be used to hold train storage shelving.
  • The Weirton Steel area picked up about 11 sq feet (not 22 sq feet).  I think it is enough to accommodate at least part of a blast furnace (cast house, kettle, and 1 stove) jutting out from the backdrop (divider).  The lime green areas are pop-up access hatches.  The back of the Open Hearth building will be open to give access to derailed cars.  The Strip Steel and Blooming Mills will be reachable from underneath.
  • The specific track geometries were tweaked.  We have a loop of track within the mill complex for turning a train.  And a wye was added.
  • I am looking at using the divider to hold a backdrop composed of Weirton Steel buildings (from a photograph).
  • The blackish/dark gray area is Standard Slag; track directly below it is for dumping slag.
  • Weirton Junction was lengthened.  The bottom most track is reserved for cabin cars.  The two tracks above it are for freight / steel related cars.
  • A doubled-sided backdrop divides Weirton Junction from Weirton itself.  On the Weirton Junction side, this will be a photograph of trees with some actual trees in the foreground.  On the Weirton side, the backdrop will climb as it heads up County Road.  It should just be high enough to split the scenes.
  • Aisles are approximately 2.5' to 3' wide.  There is one narrow 2' section near the bridge.  I had to make some real fine adjustments to keep the O72 curves.


Looking at the Western end of the layout:

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032-L

  • The bridge module has been redrawn to accurately reflect the size and position of the approach spans and the arch. Track east of the bridge will be positioned on fill.  I'm trying a new technique here.
  • Tracks west of the bridge have wide sweeping curves (O138 in one case).
  • The mountain is significantly larger (7'x8') than the one planned for Panhandle 1.0.
  • I am still debating the fate of the coal mine.  At this point, I have a lot more space to portray downtown Steubenville and I am inclined to use it for that purpose.
  • Below the level of the layout (shown in a yellowish color) is the River Route.  This will be a completely separate loop.  It will use the TPC-400 to permit conventional running and will give any smaller kids a chance to run a train.

 

I would very much like to hear your thoughts, comments, and questions.

George

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Images (3)
  • PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032
  • PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032-R
  • PRR Panhandle 2.0 v032-L
Last edited by G3750
Mark Boyce posted:

George,

Your plan almost overwhelms me!  I'm just looking forward to seeing it all come together!!

ROFLMAO.  Mark, sometimes it almost overwhelms me, too! 

There's a lot of work to do.

This time around, I am determined not to be driven by the need to get trains up and running quickly.  I don't have work and kids cutting into my "think" time and pushing me towards quick but temporary band-aids.  The plan is comprehensive because it needs to be.  There are just a lot of moving parts in this layout.  I need to get them right in order to make the layout perform well and look good.

George

Last edited by G3750

Updated 9/2/2017:

  • Sorted, labeled, boxed, and stored all the house-hold related items (screws, nails, electrical components, power strips, cable TV parts & pieces).
  • Sorted, labeled, boxed, and stored all the excess office supplies (diskettes, CDs, DVDs, computer components, cables, etc.).
  • Found three more boxes of odds-n-ends and tools over the past 2 days.  That's all in place or tossed.
  • Tossed 4 boxes of work related stuff.
  • Tossed a large number of orphan screws and unrecognized 40+ year old junk.
  • Moved the last 2 tables (work spaces) into place.
  • Started assembling my spray booth.
  • Took delivery of the first batch of lumber for the Staging Area.

 

It's Labor Day, so I'm laboring. 

George

From one who moved just over 4 years ago, that sounds pretty good to me! That's half the battle of getting settled in. The next half is remembering where everything is in it's new home. Even with the labels I still have to search for things every now and then. Sounds like layout building is getting close too! I think it was a couple months short of a year after the move before I got to layout building. Good luck and keep the updates coming!

rtr12 posted:

From one who moved just over 4 years ago, that sounds pretty good to me! That's half the battle of getting settled in. The next half is remembering where everything is in it's new home. Even with the labels I still have to search for things every now and then. Sounds like layout building is getting close too! I think it was a couple months short of a year after the move before I got to layout building. Good luck and keep the updates coming!

Thanks.  I find that if I don't write things down, I just won't remember. 

While the lumber has arrived, I would say that layout building (at least the Staging Area) is probably 1-2 weeks away.  I do want to get shellac on the lumber before too long to prevent warping.

George

Updated 9/9/2017:

  • Went through some storage boxes and retrieved a lot of research material.  That's now organized and filed so I can access it.
  • Hung all the artwork in the workshop and train room.
  • Finished assembling the spray booth.
  • Ordered a fence for the drill press.
  • Bought screws and carriage bolts, washers, nuts for the Staging Area bench work (and beyond).
  • Ordered switches for the Staging Area from Ross Custom Switches.
  • Estimated the amount of shelving that will be needed in the Staging Area.  Requested a quote from one of the vendors.
  • Started applying shellac to the Staging Area bench work lumber.  That's currently in the garage.


I still have a few more things to do in the workshop before I can declare victory - set up the table saw, get the work spaces cleared, and run the sweeper.  But it's very close.

George

Updated 9/21/2017:

And so the real work on PRR Panhandle 2.0 begins.

First, the clean slate. This is the far right end of the plan that will become the Staging Area.

DSCN2924DSCN2925DSCN2926DSCN2930DSCN2932DSCN2933


I believe, thanks to my wonderful wife Judy, that the issue with applying shellac has been solved.  She found some old t-shirts (cotton) and helped me apply the stuff evenly to the spruce 2"x2"s.  I have been pretty frustrated looking on-line for rags and only finding expensive bundles of painters cloths. The answer is pretty simple - go to Goodwill or a dollar store and buy some cotton t-shirts. :idea:

For spreading stain or shellac, old t-shirts cost less and work better than the commercial rags at Walmart, HD, or Lowes. And these stores don't even carry them. They have to be ordered. :x

We applied the shellac in the garage. The 2 bundles to the right are the poplar legs that will be used for the most visible parts of the layout. We are going to try out some stain on them tomorrow.
DSCN2934

In this photo, the topmost 2"x4"x10' had shellac brushed on (I will hide them deep under the layout). The 2"x2"s in the foreground had shellac applied with cotton t-shirts.  Wow, what a difference!

DSCN2935

We are officially rolling on Panhandle 2.0 construction!!   

George

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MNCW posted:

George, Glad to see things are progressing. I didn't notice if you said you only bought the legs so far? 

Tom 

Tom,

I bought all the lumber for the Staging Area, including spruce legs (2"x2").  But I didn't care for the legs.  And I didn't have a good way to apply shellac to them;  I wasn't happy with the way they turned out.  So, I am going use those spruce 2"x2" legs in the interior of the layout.  I bought some poplar 2"x2"s to use for legs that will be visible (to visitors) on the outer perimeter of the layout.

My short-term construction schedule is as follows:

  1. Complete the application of shellac to all the lumber to be used in the Staging Area.
  2. Install train storage shelves on the wall.
  3. Assemble the 3 train tables of Staging Area.
  4. Install the 6 tall 2"x2"s that will support the sheets of masonite (from table top to ceiling).
  5. Install the masonite (this will support a backdrop).
  6. Install the other train storage shelves on the tall 2"x2"s.
  7. Complete the photo-shoot for the backdrop.
  8. Install the backdrop across the left, back, and right (masonite) walls of the layout.

It's a guess, but the above should take me until January (I hope).

After that, I will work on the remainder of the layout (too many steps to identify individually).

George

George,

I have a bag of old tee-shirts of mine that are awaiting jobs like staining etc.  They do work good.  Yes, the thrift store is a great source if you don't have any on hand.  Doing that ahead of time is a good idea; better than waiting until benchwork is built.  The room looks very inviting and the track lights look like they will give ample lighting.  That is a good list of tasks in the correct order.  How many of us build then try to fit a backdrop in later.  I did, but I had rear access on my last N-scale layout.  This time the backdrops will go up early.  You already know what they look like.  I'll look forward to seeing your photo backdrops!

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

I have a bag of old tee-shirts of mine that are awaiting jobs like staining etc.  They do work good.  Yes, the thrift store is a great source if you don't have any on hand.  Doing that ahead of time is a good idea; better than waiting until benchwork is built.  The room looks very inviting and the track lights look like they will give ample lighting.  That is a good list of tasks in the correct order.  How many of us build then try to fit a backdrop in later.  I did, but I had rear access on my last N-scale layout.  This time the backdrops will go up early.  You already know what they look like.  I'll look forward to seeing your photo backdrops!

Yeah, I really learned my lesson regarding installing the backdrop first.  I never want to repeat that massive headache I suffered with Panhandle 1.0.

I'm looking forward to seeing your layout and backdrops.

George

Yes George, I'm looking forward to seeing it too!  

I may get a little extra time this fall, as I am only going to be working 3 days a week for a while.  First I need to get over this sinus infection so I can get my cataract surgeries, then I should be good to go!  I was clearing some stuff out of the area I want to start benchwork first, and stopped felling wiped out.  

Updated 9/27/2017:

I was having second thoughts about my initial choice of 48" layout height.  Panhandle 1.0 was at 46" at Steubenville and 42" at Weirton initially, but I elevated Weirton to around 44" in the re-build.  I was contemplating installing the new layout at an overall height of 44" (there are no grades).

I took the suggestion of a friend and mocked up various heights using a wardrobe box left over from the move.  I put a car on the box and tested the amount of bending needed to view it.  I believe I have enough access holes so that reaching for or picking up a locomotive is not a concern.  To my own surprise, I have settled on a height of 50". From the bottom up, that's:

  • 1.5" glide length (adjustable)
  • 46.5" leg length
  • 1.5" rib thickness
  • 19/32" plywood table thickness


Subtract approximately 1/16" by adjusting the glide and you've got 50" height floor to table top.

George

RaritanRiverRailroadFan4 posted:

Just wanted to ask. Will you be using only cabeese labeled from the Central Region? I thought that was where the Panhandle was. I know that MTH makes N8's lettered for the Central Region but other than that.. I assume you will customize your own?

Joe,

I honestly haven't given it much thought.  I have a couple of MTH N8's, but don't recall their regional markings. 

I tend to favor the N6b, the cabin car designed for tunnel clearances on the Panhandle.   Current roster is:

  • 3 N5b's
  • 6 N5c's
  • 8 N6b's
  • 2 N8's

Honestly, I don't need any more cabin cars. 

Will I re-letter them?  Seems unlikely as there are a ton of more pressing items demanding my attention. 

George

Updated 9/28/2017:

Installation of train shelving has begun.

I have decided on the power districts for the layout.  There will be 8 and power will be supplied by 6 Lionel Power House 180 watt bricks.  Current thinking is:

  • Steubenville (part of the mainline) supplied by PH180 #1
  • Coal Mine spur (may end up being renamed and / or re-purposed) supplied by PH180 #2
  • River Route supplied by PH180 #2
  • PRR Bridge (part of the mainline) supplied by PH180 #3
  • Weirton Junction Yard supplied by PH180 #3
  • Weirton (part of the mainline) supplied by PH180 #4
  • Weirton Steel Yard supplied by PH180 #5
  • Staging Area supplied by PH180 #6

The yards sharing a PowerHouse 180 lack enough activity to justify their own power supply.

George

Updated 10/6/2017:

With my wife's help, I managed to get all the train shelving (Glenn Snyder Display System) on the far wall installed.

The shelves are 9' across (6' + 3') and anchored to studs. The lowest shelf starts at 59" above the floor, giving me the option to raise the layout height to 53" if I so desire (I don't). It will stay at 50". At least that's what I think right now.

DSCN2940DSCN2942DSCN2943DSCN2944

I like them! 

George

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  • DSCN2943
  • DSCN2944

Updated 10/8/2017:

The photographer will be here tomorrow to inspect the train room and get an understanding of size and position for the backdrop. To prepare, I took a laser level and established the 50" layout height all around the train room. I also placed the bridge in its approximate location and orientation. From west to east (left to right):

DSCN2955

The red laser line is visible in this photo. I have used yellow post-it notes to indicate the height on the walls.

DSCN2954

The brown paper wrapped object is the bridge. I'm keeping it in its protective cocoon.

DSCN2953

The bins at the far end of the room denote the position of the backdrop.

DSCN2956

George

 

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Images (4)
  • DSCN2955
  • DSCN2954
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Updated 10/24/2017:

After a lot of thought, I have come up with the power distribution plan for the new layout. The board uses a Block Power Controller (BPC) and 2 Track Power Controllers (a TPC300 and a TPC400). The blocks are reworked as follows:

1 Steubenville (mainline) powered by a Power House 180
2 PRR Bridge (mainline) powered by a Power House 180
3 Weirton (mainline) powered by a Power House 180
4 Weirton Steel (yard) powered by a Power House 180
5 Coal Mine (yard) powered by a Power House 135 attached to a TPC300 and a Block Power Controller
6 Weirton Junction (yard) powered by the same PH135, TPC300, and BPC controls above.
7 River Route (branch line) powered by the same PH135, TPC300, and BPC controls above.
8 Staging Area (yard) powered by a Power House 180

The components should give me the ability to:

  • Shut power on/off selectively to each of the yards using the BPC.
  • Run trains on the River Route in either Conventional or Command mode using the TPC300. Since that is just a loop, it's perfect for Christmas trains or train running by grandchildren w/o affecting the trains of bigger kids (like myself  ).


The power distribution panel itself will measure 30" H x 8' W. It will feature light bulbs (to indicate power), fuses, and labels for each of the 8 power districts. Transformers and Power Houses will sit on a TV cart that can be rolled away from the layout for maintenance work on the board. AC accessories and switch buses will be supplied by K-Line PowerChief 120F transformers. DC accessories and lights will be supplied by a 3VDC wall wart (traffic lights, telephone pole lights), 5VDC power supply (TBD), and a 12VDC power supply (animations and lights).

20171022 Panel

 

I like this design.  It's less cluttered and (I think) a big improvement over the Panhandle 1.0 board.

Your comments are welcome.

George

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 20171022 Panel

My only thought would be a toggle switch for each yard track that an engine could possibly be parked on so you could shut off power to it and still use the remaining track in the yard. Just to keep the electronics off while not in use. I have both DCS and Legacy, but am much more familiar with the workings of DCS. The chrono and run time keep adding up when an MTH engine sits on a powered track. 

Having said that, I am a real novice as to railroad operations so this may not make sense in the applications you have in mind here. Your layout is going to be much more elaborate then mine as well. It was just a thought and something I added after the fact on my layout that is far from being finished. Still in the development/re-development stages and needs to be expanded, but it allows train running while the thought process continues! Probably won't look anything like it does now if it ever gets finished...

Updated 11/1/2017:

While I haven't posted here in awhile, I have been busy. I don't have a lot of tangible output to share, but I have been:

  • Putting together a track / switch order to beat Ross Custom Switches' price increase.
  • Examining the plans and making some size and construction decisions about the Open Hearth. The mill itself will be 36"wide x 68" long.
  • Re-working the track plan to include the Open Hearth's:
    • Charging track (holds the small flat cars containing materials for charging the furnaces)
    • Charging machine track (I decided to use a GarGraves gantry crane track to construct this wide track); this is the machine that pushes materials into the open hearth furnaces.
    • Hot metal transfer track (bottle cars will use this to pour their loads into the transfer ladles)
    • Run-around track (per Chuck's suggestion). This will pass under the hot metal transfer track and through the Open Hearth.
    • Pouring track - where ingot cars with their loads will exit the Open Hearth


All of this was necessary to generate the Ross order and make sure that the remaining track orders are correct.

George

Here's a visual.

Open Hearth Track Layout

From the front of the mill (left to right):

  • Pouring track
  • Charging box track (at rear of mill)
  • Charging machine (wide) track (also at rear of mill)
  • Run-around track (front at ground level)
  • Hot metal transfer track (directly above it and charging floor). This is not visible or labeled per se.  I don't have enough real estate to take this track up to this level and keep the run-around track below it.


The three spurs to the right are for the blast furnace.

George

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  • Open Hearth Track Layout

Updated 11/17/2017:

I've made some progress, although it's not particularly visible.

  • Earlier in the week, I traveled to Central PA and picked up the bridge approach sections and the two (final) bridge abutments.
  • I also retrieved the switches for the Staging Area track.
  • I have also been wrestling with the design of the Open Hearth building. Design aspects in play:
    • Number and placement of large columns.
    • Number and placement of small columns.
    • Kind and number of Plastruct components required for the above as well as sources and prices (this building could get very pricey!)

George

Updated 11/30/2017:

  • Had my trigger finger surgery this morning - recovery in progress.
  • Over the past 6 days, in between Thanksgiving and kid visits, I determined the correct dimensions of ladles and bridge cranes for the Open Hearth. That led to yet another recalculation of building height and proportion values. The Charging side of the Open Hearth is elevated; fitting the crane's height and the ladle size into the smaller bay didn't work as planned. As a result, the height of building needed to be increased. Even with more height, it turned out that the plan to put the Run-Around Track through the Open Hearth was unworkable. I have re-routed the Run-Around Track to outside the building (part of the Blast Furnace complex).
  • Here's the original plan.
  • Open Hearth Track Layout
  • Here's the new plan, which eliminates 1 switch.

PRR Panhandle 2.0 v036-Right

George

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  • Open Hearth Track Layout
  • PRR Panhandle 2.0 v036-Right
Mark Boyce posted:

George,

I am glad you got the trigger finger surgery taken care of.  I hope you have a speedy recovery.  My wife had a quick recovery from hers early this year.

Yes, I see the movement of the run around track.  Looks good, and eliminating one switch is good when you need so many to handle your traffic!

I have been suffering with the finger problem since the beginning of 2017.  Cant't wait till it fully recovers.

It's funny how all these aspects of the mill are tied together and end up impacting the track plan.

George

Updated 12/16/2017:

  • Stitches are out of the hand and healing is under way.  Feels pretty good at this stage.
  • Placed my order for Plastruct for two building projects.
  • Unpacked and set up my hobby table saw.
  • Moved enough of the lumber in the garage to bring the car inside (Trust me, this was a big contributor to continued hobby activities and domestic tranquility. :wink: )


George

Updated 1/14/2018:

I've been working with the backdrop photographer and I'm happy to say we are making progress. One of the things I wanted to do with the rightmost side of the backdrop was incorporate a blast furnace. The original idea was to have part of the blast furnace represented in the backdrop with the rest (the cast house) protruding from the wall. That hasn't worked out as I can't get the blast furnaces to pose at the correct angle.    Instead, the backdrop will come from a photo I took back in 2005; it contains 3 of the 4 Weirton blast furnaces. Given that the backdrop already represents blast furnaces, I have decided that a model blast furnace is unnecessary (as well as probably beyond my skills).

Accordingly, I am going to substitute the Strip Steel (Rolling Mill) building for a blast furnace. Originally the Strip Steel building was slated for a corner at the back of the layout, but there is enough space (42" wide) for it at the front. It is an interesting 7 bay, two-story brick structure with open square roof ventilators or "penthouses". The original brick color was yellow and the building had a roof-top "WEIRTON STEEL CO." sign. It is to the far right in the photo below.

Strip Steel002W

I will probably put the "run-around" track between it and the Open Hearth. The building itself will have a spur running into it. That wasn't true of the prototype (at least in the front) but I'm invoking "modeler's license".

George

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  • Strip Steel002W

George,

Those belligerent blast furnaces!!  Always causing trouble!    I was just wondering yesterday what you were up to.  A model of a blast furnace is more than I would want to undertake that is for sure!  I think the rolling mill building will create a lot of interest and is a good choice instead!  You have to use modelers' license to do all you want to in your space!  

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

Those belligerent blast furnaces!!  Always causing trouble!    I was just wondering yesterday what you were up to.  A model of a blast furnace is more than I would want to undertake that is for sure!  I think the rolling mill building will create a lot of interest and is a good choice instead!  You have to use modelers' license to do all you want to in your space!  

Well, I have plans for one and they are huge consumers of real estate.  Plus they have piping to sustain Plastruct for the next 20 years! 

The Strip Steel will be an interesting building in its 1950's paint scheme and configuration.  Here's what it looks like now.

2010 Thanksgiving 2892010 Thanksgiving 292W2010 Thanksgiving 296E

 

George

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Images (3)
  • 2010 Thanksgiving 289
  • 2010 Thanksgiving 292W
  • 2010 Thanksgiving 296E

Updated 1/19/2018:

Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, here's what the plan for Weirton Steel looked like a few days ago.

Open Hearth Track Layout

I have since re-thought the area.  As previously mentioned, I have:

  • Removed the blast furnace
  • Reworked the track plan
  • Added the Strip Steel (actually increasing its foot print somewhat)
  • Added a compressed air tank structure
  • Added a coil field / yard
  • Am toying with a gantry-style crane to load trailor trucks with coils; Weir-Cove Moving & Storage did this for the prototype.

2018 Changes to WSX

George

Attachments

Images (2)
  • Open Hearth Track Layout
  • 2018 Changes to WSX

Updated 2/6/2018:

As a result of the Weirton Steel article in the Steel Mill Modelers Journal, I was asked to do a clinic on modeling Weirton Steel for the local NMRA Division (Mid-Continent Division 2 - Keystone).  But that's beside the point.  Working on the clinic slides gave me the opportunity to look at prototype photos again and revisit some of my assumptions on train operations in and around the steel mill.  Of course, the result was a tweak or two for the layout. :lol:

  • So that Blast Furnace traffic can be exchanged, the reversing / run-around track now passes through the backdrop into the Staging Area in two places.  Loaded coal hoppers and ore jennies will arrive, go behind the backdrop into the Staging Area, and be exchanged for empties that pass out.  Likewise, loaded slag cars and hot metal cars will exit Staging near the Blast Furnace area and return empty.
  • The backdrop changes resulted in a better organization of access hatches.  I can now easily get to the back of the Open Hearth and Blooming Mills to fix derailments or maintain the electronics in the buildings.  That's a better decision; I know there may be problems and I now have a way to handle them.  The buildings will have removable back panels for this purpose.
  • I added a pipe bridge along the side of the Strip Steel building as well as piping detail across the front.


Here are the changes to the track plan.

2.0 v042 - RightSide

Also, the backdrop has gone to the printers.  I expect to see it shortly.

George

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Images (1)
  • 2.0 v042 - RightSide

George,

Congratulations on the invitation to present your research!  I'm sure the audience will learn a lot!!

Your changes to the plan should make it better!  I'm glad you are getting the backdrop printed, but I have a question.  Is the is the backdrop of the mill or the river scene, or have you been able to get all of it digitally blended into one big backdrop?

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

Congratulations on the invitation to present your research!  I'm sure the audience will learn a lot!!

Your changes to the plan should make it better!  I'm glad you are getting the backdrop printed, but I have a question.  Is the is the backdrop of the mill or the river scene, or have you been able to get all of it digitally blended into one big backdrop?

Thank you, Mark.

The backdrop is actually composed of 5 large photos.  The rightmost photo is of the mill.  And yes, it is blended. 

George

Last edited by G3750

Updated 2/15/2018:

The backdrop arrived several days ago.  Here's a look at it.

Master Key

Some notes:

  • Panel 1 is against the left wall. A styrofoam mountain in the corner will tie it and Panel 2A together.
  • Panel 2 has two lengthwise parts (A & B)
  • Panel 3 has two parts (Top & Bottom)
  • Panel 4 has two lengthwise parts (A & B)
  • Panel 5 has two parts (Top & Bottom)


I am currently finalizing the installation process. Before I can start, though, I need to get the Staging Area tables built.

George

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Master Key

That is a great looking back drop scene. Also looks like careful planning went into each section and I bet it goes perfectly with your layout too. Great job!!

Sure wish I had that sort of planning ability! I have been struggling with an addition plan for my layout for about 3 years now...just can't seem to make up my mind what I want to do... 

G3750 posted:
Mark Boyce posted:

George, It looks great!!  it definitely has the Wierton and Ohio River look!!  Congratulations!!

It should!       It was taken down on the river on a warm day in mid-October.

The river was so smooth, calm, and inviting it was all I could do not to jump in.

It's a beautiful place.

George

It will make you feel like jumping in when you are running trans on a cold January day!!  

rtr12 posted:

That is a great looking back drop scene. Also looks like careful planning went into each section and I bet it goes perfectly with your layout too. Great job!!

Sure wish I had that sort of planning ability! I have been struggling with an addition plan for my layout for about 3 years now...just can't seem to make up my mind what I want to do... 

Thank you, I am happy with how the backdrop turned out as well.

As for planning, I've been thinking about this backdrop (and its predecessor) off and on for about 5 years. 

This postcard (looking upstream / North) was the starting point for both the painted version (for Panhandle 1.0) and the current, more realistic photographic version of the backdrop. 

I was fortunate; a cousin took us on his boat.  We went upstream just north of the railroad bridge.  The backdrop photographer took the shots from that point.

panhand

Before heading to the river for the shoot, I positioned the model bridge in the (more or less) proper location within the train room.  I had the photographer look at the train room and we made detailed measurements.  The photographer got the proper perspective and depth of field understanding from that mock-up.  I think that was very important.

 

As to layout planning, let me give you some advice passed on to me by Neal Schorr (PRR Middle Division) way back when.

  1. Let the prototype be your guide.  If you are modeling a particular railroad or portion or even a scene, study it.  Take lots of photos because it gives you something to study.  I've looked at photos 4, 5, 6 times and seen things that I had previously missed.  As your understanding of the scene deepens, what's important to you may change.
  2. Determine what parts or features of the above are truly important to you.  Certain industries or scenic features can dictate particular elements of the track plan.  Eliminate the rest.
  3. Make an important feature(s) the center-piece of the layout.  For me, the center-piece is the bridge.  Weirton Steel is a second focus.  And North Weirton is a third.  Steubenville is number 4.

 

I would add the following steps to the above:

  1. Go and look at as many model railroads as possible.  Take notes about what you like and what you don't.
  2. When you are thinking about your own layout, write yourself a set of notes about your decisions and why you did what you're doing.
  3. Use some sort of track planning software to test out your designs.  I use RR-Track.  I've made hundreds of variations of the PRR Panhandle 1.0 and 2.0 track plans over the years.  It's a lot cheaper to make a plan and throw it away than it is to build and scrap a physical piece of a layout.  BTW, I keep all my old track plan versions (give them version numbers); you never know when you might want to go back and see some feature.
  4. RESIST the impulse to fill every empty space with track.

 

I hope the above helps your planning process.

Best,

George

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Images (1)
  • panhand
Last edited by G3750

Updated 2/21/2018:

We had a record high temperature of 78 degrees F here yesterday. I took advantage of the balmy weather to open the garage door and stain all the benchwork legs (18). These will support the perimeter of the layout.

I have also been giving some thought to the Steubenville, the most undifferentiated portion of the layout. In Panhandle 1.0, I envisioned some generic buildings and a coal mine. Steubenville actually did have a coal mine near the top of Market Street; it was said to pass under the Ohio River and emerge in Wellsburg, WV. :shock:

However, after taking those photos of Steubenville from atop McKims Ridge, I am thinking about changing it up. See figure below.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">Steubenville Urban Planning3.jpg</dt><dd>Steubenville Urban Planning3.jpg (224.07 KiB) Not viewed yet</dd></dl>


I will keep the mountain in the left rear corner of the layout, but I'm thinking about changing:

  • The sidings. There was a large paper box(Federal?) factory along the river. I am going to flip the siding with the mainline and place the mainline inland. The new mainline is shown in RED.
  • The coal mine. I'm thinking of eliminating the mine and its spurs and going for a more urban look. Steubenville has a lot of interesting architectural features. I'm thinking about including The Hub department store on 4th and Commercial streets. The photo below appears to have been taken near the intersection of Market & 7th Street. You can see the railroad crossing, as well as the Grand Theatre and The Hub on the left side of Market.
    <dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">1950 Steubenville.jpg</dt><dd>1950 Steubenville.jpg (113.81 KiB) Not viewed yet</dd></dl>
    <dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">Grand Theatre.jpg</dt><dd>Grand Theatre.jpg (66.89 KiB) Not viewed yet</dd></dl>
    <dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">The Hub Department Store - drawing.jpg</dt><dd>The Hub Department Store - drawing.jpg (76.02 KiB) Not viewed yet</dd></dl>
  • I want to get the intersections of Market & 4th, Market & 5th, and maybe even Market & 6th onto the layout in a more prototypical fashion.  The building circled in red is The Hub.
    <dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">431-445 Market Street - The Hub.jpg</dt><dd>431-445 Market Street - The Hub.jpg (366.81 KiB) Not viewed yet</dd></dl>
  • With the mainline changed, I can create a seedier part of town in the southwest corner of the layout.


So while I work on benchwork today, I am giving some thought (and research effort) towards the appearance of Steubenville.

Georeg

Updated 2/21/2018:

I managed to take advantage of today's good weather and make some progress on the Staging Area's bench work.

This is the plan for benchwork tables.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">Table7-Page 2.jpg</dt></dl>



Originally, I planned to drill holes in sides and end ribs for both wiring and for bolting tables together. The plan was to clamp the adjacent sides (or ends) together and drill aligned holes through both pieces. I thought my Sears bench top drill press would be the perfect tool for this work. I was wrong. Whether it was me or the depth of holes or the depth of drill bit needed, it just didn't work. I couldn't adjust the thing to do the job. I ended up clamping pieces together an using a hand drill. I also decided that I would only drill holes for bolting tables together. Wiring will be carried by zip ties with screw holes.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">IMG_1420.JPG</dt></dl>



Stained wood. These are some of the "nice" legs that will go on the perimeter of the layout (facing visitors).

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">IMG_1419.JPG</dt></dl>



Varnished wood - long side pieces.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">IMG_1418.JPG</dt></dl>



Some stained and many more varnished legs.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">IMG_1417.JPG</dt></dl>



Two sides that I already drilled. They are sitting on some finished (stained) legs.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">IMG_1416.JPG</dt></dl>



In the foreground is my set up for drilling holes. In the background is my useless (for this purpose) drill press.

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">IMG_1415.JPG</dt></dl>



George

The pics are all just fine on my PC. And thanks for the above post with added planning info. Unfortunately, I have been hijacked by my grandson and his first RC 'crawler' vehicle kit. Another subject I knew nothing about until he asked to come over so I could help him with his new kit! It's turned into quite a project and learning experience! 

Updated 2/23/2018:

Here's the current thinking (diagram) regarding the Steubenville area of the layout. These are some major changes in my thinking over the past 24 hours.

  • I've eliminated the mountain tunnel at the top of the layout. It has been replaced by a smaller hill that reflects the area more prototypically (I hope).
  • I made the track changes indicated in the first rough sketch.
  • The ground will slope up from the bottom of the layout towards the hill and the background. I expect the increase in height to be between 3" and 6".
  • Panhandle 1.0 featured the intersection of Market Street with 4th Street.  Panhandle 2.0 adds 5th and 6th Streets.

 

20180223 Steubenville Planning Thoughts 2

I'm going to have to do something about the footprint of The Hub department store. A person I met at the Strasburg 2-Rail Show has a resin casting for a 5 story building that would look fantastic. Unfortunately, it is 2' long x 1' high (96 s' x 96 s' x 48 s'). A 2' x 2' building takes up a heck of a lot of space. I'm rethinking that. Same deal for the Grand Theatre; I want to conserve foot print, but I'm dubious about the current commercially available offerings for movie theatres.

Other buildings in downtown Steubenville are still TBD, although there will be an S.S. Kresge (River Leaf Models). Steubenville has a number of buildings constructed in the late 1890s-1920s. There are a number of kits featuring buildings of that era (we need more). In addition I have a bunch of building photographs (taken in 2005). These have tons of architectural character and diversity.  I plan to consult the Steubenville library for an accurate list of businesses in downtown in 1953.

I decided to include the Federal Paperboard factory off 4th Street. It has a large brick smokestack. I may or may not keep the siding at its current length past this factory. If I can think of another industry to put there, I'll keep it at its present length. If not, I'll shorten it and do something else with the space.

Moving to the north (top) of the layout, I've put the Steubenville PRR station in its correct location (on 6th Street). Footprint is approximate; I am trying to acquire the actual station plans. The small hill in front of the backdrop will rise rather rapidly. I see it being 12"-18" tall. Over the tunnel portal, I will use an HO model of the Bates House to force perspective (uphill and receding). At the western end of 6th Street, I will have Market Street turn right and run it behind an outcropping of the hill to hide its termination from view.

So that is the current thinking. Comments and suggestions are welcome!

George

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  • 20180223 Steubenville Planning Thoughts 2
Last edited by G3750

George, I like the idea of adding more than one cross street.  That will add more interest.  I agree, the Hub building at 2 x 2 is too big.  It's a good building to use, but from the photographs, other buildings looked larger.  I do like the River Leaf SS Kresge building.  Every town of that size had a 5 & 10, Kresge, FW Woolworths, GC Murphy, etc.  I think the hill with the forced perspective HO building is good. 

I hadn't noticed it before, but what railroad is the "river route" loop?  It makes sense to have it for extra interest.

Mark Boyce posted:

George, I like the idea of adding more than one cross street.  That will add more interest.  I agree, the Hub building at 2 x 2 is too big.  It's a good building to use, but from the photographs, other buildings looked larger.  I do like the River Leaf SS Kresge building.  Every town of that size had a 5 & 10, Kresge, FW Woolworths, GC Murphy, etc.  I think the hill with the forced perspective HO building is good. 

I hadn't noticed it before, but what railroad is the "river route" loop?  It makes sense to have it for extra interest.

Mark,

I've assembled a series of figures that show the River Route.  In the 1953 Grif Teller painting, the last steam locomotive to ever appear on Pennsy calendars is on the River Route.

River Route

Here's a photo of the western end of the bridge.  The River Route is just to the left of the "pocket" pier and just to the right of the northbound lanes of Ohio Route 7.

DSCN3518

Here's a snapshot of the River Route I took in 1965.  We are looking north, upriver.  That's the Ft. Steuben Bridge (automobile) in the background.  It was demolished a few years ago.  Note that the River Route had 2 tracks;  it is currently single tracked.  The railroad bridge would be off camera to the right.

1965 Bridge Photos_0006

Not sure that the track can be seen clearly, but it is there.  This photo is taken on the Ohio side of the river, just south of the bridge.

OH side #1

So now you know where the River Route is. 

To answer the question you actually asked:

PRR, Pittsburgh & West Virginia, Norfolk & Western, and (perhaps) Wheeling & Lake Erie or mid-50s NKP.

In modern times (like last October), I saw a CSX train go through.

George

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Images (4)
  • River Route
  • DSCN3518
  • 1965 Bridge Photos_0006
  • OH side #1
Last edited by G3750

Updated 3/11/2018:

The refinement of the Steubenville side of the layout continues.  Here is the view of the northern part of the layout.

Steubenville-N v048

Since the last look, I've added the correct location of the PRR station on N. 6th Street, the Federal Paperboard factory, a re-sized version of The Hub department store, and 5th Street.  Both 6th and 5th Streets will be populated with a prototypical sampling of the correct businesses (can't fit them all).

Here's a look at the southern half of Steubenville.

Steubenville-S v048 

This part of Steubenville will feature the intersection of 4th Street and Market Street, the prominent businesses on lower Market Street, N. 4th Street, and S. 4th Street, and the red light district at Water Street.

The terrain will rise from a low point at the south side of the layout to the northern points near the PRR station.  Beyond that track, the terrain will rise sharply over then next 2 feet to meet the backdrop.

George

 

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Images (2)
  • Steubenville-N v048
  • Steubenville-S v048

Updated 3/23/2018:

While I haven't been posting many updates, there has been some serious thought given to several parts of the layout construction.

  • The wood ribbing for the tables has been modified to support access hatches. As a result, I've created a spreadsheet that identifies each table and all 2x2's and their dimensions.
  • An order for 5-ply 19/32" plywood pieces has been placed. This will allow construction of the Staging area as well as most of the Weirton section of the layout to start. I am having the pieces cut to size to reduce the work.
  • This month's NMRA Division meeting took place at Scenic Express. In a stroke of luck there, I discovered that the Chooch Large Cut Stone (#8264) is a pretty good match for the arch's stonework (PRR bridge). I picked up some of it. I also re-examined my photographs of the arch. Surprisingly, the stone arch sits on what appears to be a poured concrete base. The arch itself can be no older than 1878-9. I have found a textured paint that may be a good match for the color of the base. Here are some photos - first the prototype.

DSCN2285

Next, the paint samples. On the left is a satin color called "Fossil". On the right is the textured color "Desert Bisque". I'm leaning towards the textured paint.

DSCN3772

George

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Images (2)
  • DSCN2285
  • DSCN3772

Updated 3/29/2018:

Some good progress to report today.

  • I checked and corrected my lumber order. It is scheduled for delivery next week. That should allow me to start the Staging Area.
  • I researched the exterior of The Hub Department Store in Steubenville. I obtained a couple more photos from the Steubenville Library.
  • The remaining piers, as well as the floors for the bridge pedestals, got their coat of paint.

DSCN3776

  • I painted the base of the Arch. Here's a look. I'm test-fitting a piece of the Chooch Large Cut Stone on it.

DSCN3774

George

Attachments

Images (2)
  • DSCN3774
  • DSCN3776
G3750 posted:

Updated 3/11/2018:

The refinement of the Steubenville side of the layout continues.  Here is the view of the northern part of the layout.

Steubenville-N v048

Since the last look, I've added the correct location of the PRR station on N. 6th Street, the Federal Paperboard factory, a re-sized version of The Hub department store, and 5th Street.  Both 6th and 5th Streets will be populated with a prototypical sampling of the correct businesses (can't fit them all).

Here's a look at the southern half of Steubenville.

Steubenville-S v048 

This part of Steubenville will feature the intersection of 4th Street and Market Street, the prominent businesses on lower Market Street, N. 4th Street, and S. 4th Street, and the red light district at Water Street.

The terrain will rise from a low point at the south side of the layout to the northern points near the PRR station.  Beyond that track, the terrain will rise sharply over then next 2 feet to meet the backdrop.

George

 

George,

When I look at your track plan for the Steubenville side of the bridge I feel like you should double track the loop around town and connect the tracks with a couple of switches and cross overs. I know it would add complexity but it would look better if the tracks did not split up like you currently are planning. I think you are really on to something special with the layout and I am enjoying your posts.

 

Mike

Guitarmike posted:
G3750 posted:

Updated 3/11/2018:

The refinement of the Steubenville side of the layout continues.  Here is the view of the northern part of the layout.

Steubenville-N v048

Since the last look, I've added the correct location of the PRR station on N. 6th Street, the Federal Paperboard factory, a re-sized version of The Hub department store, and 5th Street.  Both 6th and 5th Streets will be populated with a prototypical sampling of the correct businesses (can't fit them all).

Here's a look at the southern half of Steubenville.

Steubenville-S v048 

This part of Steubenville will feature the intersection of 4th Street and Market Street, the prominent businesses on lower Market Street, N. 4th Street, and S. 4th Street, and the red light district at Water Street.

The terrain will rise from a low point at the south side of the layout to the northern points near the PRR station.  Beyond that track, the terrain will rise sharply over then next 2 feet to meet the backdrop.

George

 

George,

When I look at your track plan for the Steubenville side of the bridge I feel like you should double track the loop around town and connect the tracks with a couple of switches and cross overs. I know it would add complexity but it would look better if the tracks did not split up like you currently are planning. I think you are really on to something special with the layout and I am enjoying your posts.

 

Mike

Mike,

Thank you very much for the suggestion.  Unfortunately, it is going to be difficult to do that.

I am planning to fill up most of the "empty" space on that part of the layout with buildings and streets and there just isn't room for more mainline track.  I am considering doing something (extending?) to the spur for Federal Paperboard.

I'm trying to make 6th, 5th, 4th and Market Streets as authentic as possible.  Below is a view of Market Street looking east from right around 6th Street (tracks would be immediately behind the photographer).  Whoops, there are the tracks right in front of me.   Lot of clutter in that photo.

1950 Steubenville

Thank you again for your kind words about the layout.   They mean a lot to me.

George

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 1950 Steubenville
Last edited by G3750

George, That will be a great scene on your layout!  Mike, I agree double track would make for more interesting operation.  This is the trade-off we all have when designing and building a layout; more track or more scenery.  Each of us have to make his or her own decision.  Neither is right or wrong, it is all preference I think.  So I agree it was a good suggestion.  

Updated 4/9/2018:

Here's what's been going on:

  • Lumber for the Staging Area arrived last Wednesday, but it's been a little too cold to work in the garage.
  • I created a pedestal for the bridge shoes on the base of the Stone Arch. It's a beveled piece of wood that I painted.
  • I've created an electrical wiring plan that includes the 7 new districts, their assigned power sources, and track feeder pairs (87).
  • All 33 switches have been allocated among 3 switch buses (DZ-2001's) - 8, 13, and 12 respectively. These bus lengths are well within the maximum distance permitted by the specification.
  • I identified the number and placement of signals (9 DZ-1060s PRR 7-light position signals, and 2 MTH PRR signal bridges) on the plan.
  • Picked up needed several tools, including a crimper, small gauge wire stripper, and digital caliper.
  • I finalized the items that I'm delivering to buyers at York next week.

 

George

Updated 5/16/2018:

Sometimes there are days when you “breakout” and advance on your goal more than others.  Over the past few days I have focused on shellacking tables and supports for the Staging Area of the Panhandle.  After finishing that, I turned my attention to the 2” x 4” x 10’ pine boards that were going to support the bench-work table tops against the room walls (no legs there).  I inspected them closely.  They were warped – typical pine junk.

I decided to replace them with something that would keep its shape better – poplar.  Yes, they were expensive, but I am determined not to make fundamental errors that require rebuilds or repeat some of the structural mistakes of Panhandle 1.0.  So today, I went to Lowe’s and bought a number of 1” x 4” x 8’ and 1” x 4” x 10’ poplar boards and transported them home.  These will not need shellacking.

DSCN3894

Now all the remaining boards for the Staging Area have been shellacked, numbered, and are ready to go.

DSCN3891DSCN3892

First step will be to set the laser level at 50" and install the poplar boards at the proper spot to support bench-work at that height.  Then assembly of the bench-work can begin.  Staging Area includes Tables 1-4 in the plan shown below.

Table 15-East Side

George

 

 

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Images (6)
  • DSCN3890
  • DSCN3891
  • DSCN3892
  • DSCN3893
  • DSCN3894
  • Table 15-East Side
Mark Boyce posted:

George, Yes acceptable lumber is a major priority!  I can see you shelled out some cash at Lowe's!  You will have a nice level and strong support when done!!

Mark, actually only the poplar came from Lowe's.  The 2" x 2" came from Allegheny Lumber in Tarentum, PA.  They fresh-cut your 2x2's when you order them!!  No more warped junk like you see at the big box stores.  The 5/8" Arauco plywood also came from Allegheny.  

I am determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past! 

George

George, 

  Very nice progress on your layout. I didn't notice if you mentioned what software you are using for your graphic arts/layout design updates? 

  In re-reading a few of your posts, I have come to the sad conclusion that I have more cabin cars than you! How is that possible?  

Tom 

 

MNCW posted:

George, 

  Very nice progress on your layout. I didn't notice if you mentioned what software you are using for your graphic arts/layout design updates? 

  In re-reading a few of your posts, I have come to the sad conclusion that I have more cabin cars than you! How is that possible?  

Tom 

 

Thank you, but things really aren't moving very fast.  Certainly not fast enough for me.

I am using RR-Track for the layout, but Visio 2016 for the benchwork diagram shown above.

"  In re-reading a few of your posts, I have come to the sad conclusion that I have more cabin cars than you! How is that possible?    "

I see no need to insult me.        

As a matter of fact I have 1 N5, 1 N5b, 7 N5c, 8 N6b, and 2 N8. 

George

 

Last edited by G3750

Updated 5/19/2018:

Benchwork construction has begun!  

The framework to support Table surfaces 1, 2, and 3 is underway.  This approach differs from the one in Panhandle 1.0 in that it uses a 2" x 2" frame to support a 5/8" (19/32") 5-ply board.  My friend Price Bradshaw deserves the credit for this technique, having used it very successfully in his own large layout.

I'm just starting to gather all the pieces here.  The two 1" x 4" x 10' poplar boards will go onto the walls (instead of legs) to support the framework.

DSCN3895

Yes Virginia, there is a plan!  

DSCN3896

I don't have all the frame members installed yet, but you can see 2 of the 3 surfaces in the photo below.

DSCN3897

The first one is proceeding slowly as I get back into the process of constructing benchwork.  I really want to get this right as opposed to rushing to get trains rolling.  This layout is a marathon, not a sprint.

More when I know it.

George

 

Attachments

Images (3)
  • DSCN3895
  • DSCN3896
  • DSCN3897

Updated 5/24/2018:

Making progress on the first table.  It's upside down as I install legs.

Benchwork_012_

Here's a close-up look at the leg bracing.  At the left, that piece of plywood leaning against the frame will eventually sit on top of it.

Benchwork_008_

Here's my leg-making set up.  That is an interior leg in the vise.  At the lower left are a few (18) of the 22 exterior legs that will be required.  Adjustable glides are inserted into every leg to allow for fine-tuning the level of the layout.

Benchwork_010_

Shown are 15 of the completed interior legs.  I will need 40 in all.

Benchwork_011_

 

I think I'm starting to pick up momentum!  

George

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Updated 5/25/2018:

I started attaching table tops (surfaces) 1, 2, and 3 to the framework.  First thing was to move the framework into the corner, but not so close to the wall as to have no room to maneuver.  The surface on the left is #1.

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This photo gives you a little better perspective.  It will end up in that corner eventually.

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All three tables are in their rough positions.   No. 1 is to the left; No. 2 is at the back, and No. 3 is in the foreground.  I find that no matter how precise I try to be, these never fit perfectly together.  I guess I just have to live with my OCD.  

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In this photo, all three tables have a few screws holding them to the underlying framework.

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Here's a look at Tables 2 & 3.  I'm about to drive many more screws into table 2.

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Here's a better perspective on today's work.

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Next steps will be to move the table into the corner, adjust the heights on the glides, measure with the laser level, attach the poplar wall supports (you can see them lying along the baseboards), and then attach the table to the supports.  I think that will wait until tomorrow or later in the weekend.

George

 

 

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Images (6)
  • Benchwork_014_
  • Benchwork_015_
  • Benchwork_017_
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Updated 5/28/2018:

Work continued today on the first table. In these first two photos, I attached a straight 10' poplar board to the wall on the studs. It is level and up against the bottom of the table.

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I then screwed the table top to the poplar board with 3" drywall screws. Checking the table against the laser shows that we have a pretty level platform (given we are working with pine).

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So far, so good.

George

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Images (3)
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Updated 5/31/2018:

I am now working on building the second table, which is a bit tricky.  That’s not because of its construction (it is very similar to the first), but because of the sequence that must be followed.

If you look at the plan below, you’ll see the steps involved:

Tables 1 & 2

Step 1:  Construct the outer 4’ x 8’ frame.

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Step 2:  Add the cross-member (“A”) and the south-easternmost internal rib (Identified as “B”).

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Step 3:  Add the northernmost internal rib (“C”).  Because of B’s placement, we have to attach this one to the frame with a corner brace.

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Step 4:  Flip the table onto its back and attach the legs.

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Step 5:  Flip the table onto its legs and check the hole alignment with the previous table.  These holes are for the carriage bolts that will be used to attach this table to the first one.  The remaining holes are for electrical track power buses and switch power / switch buses.

Step 6:  Here’s the tricky part.  We need to get 4 tall (102”) 2x2’s upright and mounted against rib B (installed in Step 2).  These will support the ¼” Masonite boards that carry the steel mill backdrop.  Another tall 2x2 will be mounted close to the back wall; the sixth tall 2x2 will be installed in the table closest to the aisle.  These are all marked as “X” on the plan, but are sitting on the first table in the photo below. 

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That's enough for now.  Hopefully, I'll have more to report tomorrow.

George

Attachments

Images (6)
  • Tables 1 &amp; 2
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  • Benchwork_030_
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  • Benchwork_036_
  • Benchwork_040_
Mark Boyce posted:

So are you saying the 2x2 ends will rest on the floor, be attached to the table for support and to keep them plumb?  Then the backdrop will be supported by the 2x2s and adding support to them?  Will the 2x2s be attached to the ceiling?

Mark,

You're asking about the vertical 2x2's, right?

Yes, they will get level glides on the end that sits on the floor.  I will attach them to the table for support and then add the 1/4" masonite to the front for the backdrop.  On the backside (to the right in the diagram), I will add 3 or 4 train display shelves.  Along with providing storage and the ability to exchange loaded cars for empties (and vice-versa), they will add stability to the backdrop.  At least, that's the plan.

The 2x2's will not be attached to the ceiling.  They should end up about 1-2" short of it.

George

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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
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